AlwaysInAGoodShape
AlwaysInAGoodShape
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- AlwaysInAGoodShape
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@AntiJelly said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape Also they removed the ability to have colored text. A true tragedy.
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@AntiJelly said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape Ahh sorry about the late response! It doesn't notify anyone anymore when you quote them, you have to directly mention them. So I didn' see this until now. But basically, they made it so you just have to press buttons in a menu now, instead of manually putting in symbols and the like.
Damn, I really miss the old system. This one feels so much more restrictive.
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If someone plays killer, how/when would they "win"?
If someone plays survivor, how/when would they "win"?
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@AntiJelly said:
Forum markdown rework! Working on posts before the rework is a disaster.
Is there any tutorial on how it works now? xD
I noticed the "preview" was missing too.
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Definitely Sekiro.
Played every Dark Soul and Blood Born game.
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What happened to markdown.
Edit: Ignore the random Bold text.
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I would prefer BOTH the power cells AND the tunnel to be in a pressure point
What if you replace power cells with, idk, spiderwebs? Meaning that you have to "cleanse" spiderwebs before you can go down the last stairways, meaning you are spending more and more time increasingly deeper inside of the basement? xD
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Labour-wise I think you wouldn't be able to get away with a multi-hallway tunnel set. Though what you want already exists inside of the game, right?; It's the basement, as you've mentioned.
If you want to create such a pressure spot related to doing an objective, then you could try and remove the batteries from the basement and instead have the basement asset have another door inside leading even deeper inside.
(The deeper room having the same aesthetics of the basement)
With such alterations then you might be able to create the type of pressure point you want, while keeping required resources durable.Dunno, can you see it in front of you?; A basement with another stair-case leading even deeper, made out of basement textures etc?
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Realm specific is close enough
The idea is that the tunnels have a similar risk factor to the basement (1 way in or out not counting the exit door and not enough room to maneuver around the killer)
When I say a new area I don't mean something particularly large, I'd say maybe twice the size of the basement but more stretched out into a few hallways. Since opening the hatch in my idea gives a noise notification it means it is very likely the killer is going to come down, this means you can just open the hatch and leave without using it to distract the killer if you want to.
The hatch is faster, especially if people are dead which is why you would want to use it and I would imagine there would be a latter to get back out of it if needed
Ah, I see. So you want to create a place where the survivor can get trapped in and has to make the consideration of whether committing to it or not?
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The point that you always skim past is that, one involves an additional objective the other doesn’t and is the current game. And like I’ve always said I refer to that as a side quest.
This is not a side-quest.
Anything that directly advances the main goal is NEVER a side-quest. Side-quests are things that are NOT directly progressing your main goal;
420/440 bar to escape.
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I code for a living and I’ll tell you now, if we need a code to achieve a goal, we wouldn’t over complicate the simplistic code for a more complex code with more steps and longer process time... and there’s a reason for that!
Avoided the point. Extra points.
If that was supposed to be a rebuttal that doing a generator is no longer 1 mono-process then you failed at that one!
we wouldn’t over complicate the simplistic code for a more complex code with more steps and longer process time
Ha! We are creating gameplay here. Of course the code gets bigger. Only if we didn't create new things to DO would the code have been the same.
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“Part” sea-lion or “flat” sea-lion, because you see they are both completly different things, like doing a gen and DOING a gen!
Yes, both are different things.
Scripting a bot that does a flat gen (route A) simply has 1 instruction: Hold M1 for 80 seconds.
If I had to write the code for a bot doing route B, then the code would be more complex.If doing a gen was doing 1 thing only, then I should've only needed that first script.
But as reality checks out; the bots wouldn't be doing the same thing, which is why the script for route B is different from route A.DOING THE SAME =/= ACHIEVING the same (main objective). (sorry but I lost track of how many times you inflate different things)
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@Free_Hugs said:
Always, are you aware of what a sealion is?Is this the moment where you tell me you are one?
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@Paddy4583 said:
AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Change the topic and add irrelevant words to convey a false argument that was never made, in order to convince my self I’m correct. Try to drag in others as in an attempt on the false argument in order to make it appear I’m correct.
State everyone else sees it different, by negating all posts by others, stating the same thing in a different way.
180’on original argument.Seems like someone has given up and is resorting to evasion indeed ^
You are no longer defining words. You're not quoting anything. Inflating 2 separate things as 1.And you're still denying that you can complete the game without a flat generator in the version with the parts, aka the 350 seconds.
By your own definition you made doing flat generators being called side-questing since those 70 seconds of you sitting there at that location were not mandatory to escaping and you're as cornered that you can no longer reason, so you just start posting pictures xD
After many many hours, you still don't see how in a multi-route, neither routes are mandatory.
70 seconds of sitting on a generator inserting charges is not mandatory, neither is doing parts.
The choice/mix between those paths IS however mandatory.But I don't expect you to understand this. Maybe you'll have to figure out why people didn't save people on hooks as much during the Moonrise first before you're ready for this one.
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Still oblivious to the fact that sitting a total of 350 seconds next to a generator inserting charges is no longer mandatory to escaping.
Keep side-questing on flat gens.
You're the only one that still believes that. Even Nuclear_Burrito2 understands that sitting out the 350 seconds is no longer mandatory. -
Finish 3 gens;
So route A =
Do 2 extra Gens >>> Go to the basement >>> (escape through the exit gates?)
Route B =
Go to the basement to grab 3 things / 3 times?>>> Open and enter the hatch >>> New area.
Route C =
Map dependent.
For Route B:
So the moment when there are 3 generators finished. (Which is insanely quick as it can often translate in every player only having to do 1 gen. Meaning after doing 1 gen you can grab something in the basement and go inside of the tunnel area.I don't know what a tunnel area would contribute to game-play; Does it have pallets? Can you return? Can the game afford to do all this and still have things run on console?
It seems like the idea behind the tunnel only works conceptually. Game-play wise it adds to little for the amount of labour that such a system would require.With both A and B being so similar it kind of feels like:
Do 3 gens > Go to the basement? ---> no?
Do 5 gens > Go to the basement? ---> no?
Do 7 gens > No questions asked.It has that structural overlap and with that overlap, I cannot see where the meaningful strategical considerations are;
Why pick route A over B for any other reason than the killer being somewhat close to the basement or not? What makes the choice different? What makes tunnel more risky or what game-play does the tunnel add?The problem I see with A and B in particular is that they don't interact with each other, meaning that in a solo environment multiple players may be working on a completely different route as the tunnel doesn't progress the 7 gen/the 5 gen. Doing the main objective no longer progresses as 1 bar but as separate.
Whether the map specific objective would have interactivity with either of the 2 is of course uncertain.As for map specific objectives; this is cool. Though I don't know how much work that'll be. Different objectives means also more error for balance issues. If you'd want something like it, the better try would be to ask for Realm-specific objectives, with realms that only have 1/2 maps all have the same objective (:
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@Bravo0413 said:
Okay so the plants from the hollowed blight would come back.... survivors would have to find multiple plants and pluck (plucking ingredients causes a cooldown-----> the ingredients needs to grow back) from the plants ingredients that allow the survivors to craft a drink, potion, whatever it would be called.... drinking it would give a slight buff to all survivors actions --->> this includes a speed boost, saving, healing, repairing, vaulting ---> everything (what % buff? That's for the dev team to decide) ---->> additional BP for collecting the ingredients and crafting the buff, survivors are on timer say like 4mins (just spitballing) if the survivors stay buffed for the maximum time theyll receive a huge BP bonus and become debuffed call it---> withdrawal (or whatever) .... crafting the buff earns towards the event, keeping the buff maximum time earns double and escaping with it active earns triple (what the amount of points are is for the dev team to decide) .. survivors getting hooked takes away the buff and the killer then absorbs the buffed (or the entity takes it from the survivor and gives it to the killer?) This gives the killer a buff in all actions ------>> MS increase, attack cooldowns reduced, vaulting speed increased.... everything except 1 hit downs ----> the killer can earn 1 hit downs though..
When the killer absorbs the buff they are on timer (say 2mins... just spit bawling)---->> if the killer hooks 2 more survivors within the timer they get the 1 hit down buff and 30 seconds added to their timer ---> if the killer doesn't hook 2 survivors within that timer the buff will wear off and the killer will have to catch someone else who has the buff to get it again ----> hooking the buffed survivors grants additional points towards the rewards for the event and bonus BP as well...Thought if anyone reads this?
I really like the potion idea. Opens up a lot of opportunity. Some minor changes to how BP is earned exactly and how the killer benefits as well and all be good.
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To make sure if I understand how I should read it: You mean if you pick 4A then 5A and 6A is the route right? Same goes for 4B, 5B and 6B?
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@Free_Hugs said:
The word doing has a different meaning to it than achieving.
The thing you are DOING when you are doing a generator is the same as doing a totem; holding M1.
Doing a totem and doing a flat generator means you are DOING the same thing, but you achieve something different by DOING the same thing, but somewhere else.A location is not something you do: "I do a location". It's where you are. When you are in your house you are not "doing a house".
DOING a gen is not the same thing, since you have to DO different things in route A and B. Different actions and inputs in any process means you're DOING something else.
You may be ACHIEVING the same; which is progressing the main objective. But that's the whole point. -
@PiiFree said:
Would that mean that Survivors can indirectly repair generators (collect parts) while looping?Noice!
If they can afford to stand still 10 uninterrupted seconds while doing so; yes (:
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Its more similar to doing a totem than doing a flat gen.Free_Hugs said:@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Free_Hugs said:I can't believe this thread is still going when Always has admitted, several times, that their suggestion is just doing a gen, but dumb.
I admit that water is wet. Doesn't have to do much with the OP.
What you call doing a gens is no longer doing 1 thing.
You can do 2 distinct options one of which the new one does not involve mandated rooting yourself in a position for 80 seconds.
You are correct. It is rooting yourself in for 10 seconds.
Which is still.
DOING A GEN
Doing a gen has no meaning since its not 1 thing. -
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I admit that water is wet. Doesn't have to do much with the OP.Free_Hugs said:I can't believe this thread is still going when Always has admitted, several times, that their suggestion is just doing a gen, but dumb.
What you call doing a gens is no longer doing 1 thing.
You can do 2 distinct options one of which the new one does not involve mandated rooting yourself in a position for 80 seconds. -
Generator progress on a gen that isn't completed is also potential time, derp.
If a generator is never finished then it's basically the same as a 0 progression generator.A generator with 70 second progression is actually less absolute progression than a generator with 5 parts, since the 5 parts are 70 seconds of unregressable progression, unlike the normal 70 seconds, which is 70 seconds of regressable progression and both are denied progression if a generator is never finished.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Anyways, this arfleblarg has it's pros and cons:Glad that at least 1 has started to see the obvious
The good:
- It indeed makes doing gens with 1-2 people more reasonable
- Adds more options into what you can do at any given moment
The bad:
- Doesn't do anything to help gen rushes
- Objectively buffs survivors with no other changes made
Potential improvement:
- Make at least 1 required to repair generators. However make generators require 15 less charges. Make any number changes necessary so the timing numbers remain the same (meaning that a generator should still take at least 80 seconds total to finish without anything nerfing your progress) This helps stop gen rushes as building a part is harder to modify the timing of and only a max of 3 people can make a part at once (2 if you don't want to go to the basement) while an uncoordinated team is less likely to need all 3 at the same time
I'll try to come up with other ideas. While I do think the game needs to last longer I have other idea's for that. If I do it right then it should be possible to reduce the amount of time spent on a generator further while allowing for more interesting decision making. Having some kind of part system is important to having something like that work however
As for your comment;
I have a post about Death-Efficiency, which is simply about the disproportional drop in total generator efficiency of survivors upon the death of 1 survivor. (You'd expect to lose 25% per death but it's worse)I suggest that there's a problem with both gen-rushing and a low survivor count. What happens is that if you prolongue generator times WITHOUT making lower survivor count gameplay possible, then you cannot address the issue and normalise the experience.
Simply nerfing generator time is the worst thing you can do; Nerfing generator time and making the game more survivable for lower-survivor counts is THE solution to one of the core issues of the game.
I explain how regression is key to making the late-game unplayable. That is why the Part route is basically the elimination of that regression element, without unnaturally altering regression.So if the late-game is playable (with the Part system we can make it as playable as we want to!) then it is indeed possible to start working on slowing down the base-game, which would lead to:
1: Less 4 man escapes.
4: Less the game spiralling into 4 K's after 1 survivor dies.It's a normalised experience.
While I do think the game needs to last longer
Then play around with generator regression (:
See, we have 2 routes. The B route is slower as we discussed. The A route can be the fastest but it is also possible to experience major regression.The stronger you make regression, the more tempted people are to start to use part. In the most extreme case: We give the killer to kick a generator to INSTANTLY regress it;
Even with this power the game would still be functional as a 5 part gen only requires the killer to be away for 10 seconds. (about 5-6 seconds if there are 2 survivors on a gen).
Even though survivors could still gen rush in this extreme example; it would be the killer's misplay as they could've instantly regressed a near 80 seconds of generator.If you understand the above, then you understand the main way you can nerf and buff things in a multi-route environment;
Through regression, you could accomplish the same as:
Make at least 1 required to repair generators. However make generators require 15 less charges. Make any number changes necessary so the timing numbers remain the same (meaning that a generator should still take at least 80 seconds total to finish without anything nerfing your progress) This helps stop gen rushes as building a part is harder to modify the timing of and only a max of 3 people can make a part at once (2 if you don't want to go to the basement) while an uncoordinated team is less likely to need all 3 at the same time
Early game nerf; late game buff; normalisation.
I'll try to come up with other ideas.
The beauty of the workshops is how many things you can do with them. There are a lot of mechanics that you can attach to it to make it infinitely more dynamic and adding to the gameplay experience;
This picture alone should set the mood:
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@NuclearBurrito2and healing in the case of thanatophobia would all ALSO be doing the main objective.
No; it doesn't. Healing adds more time unless your heal is near instant. Only if your heal is near instant and linked to taking out a negative multiplier on generators is it directly advancing the main bar.
That can be arranged
Good.
Did you notice how Thana hindered the main objective (negative multiplier) while a generator still has 80 charges and not more?;
So you finally understand it now?
If Thana didn't affect generators, but only totems, then even instantly healing wouldn't be directly advancing the main objective.
The negative multiplier only hinders the main objective when it's affecting the main objective.
See how Parts (a positive multiplier) in opposition directly progress the main objective?
55 parts = 25 parts done = 705 = 350 seconds less to do = only 50+20/40 seconds left.The easiest way to know whether someone has been doing their main objectives is simply by asking how much seconds you still have left to do before you can escape.
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and healing in the case of thanatophobia would all ALSO be doing the main objective.
No; it doesn't. Healing adds more time unless your heal is near instant. Only if your heal is near instant and linked to taking out a negative multiplier on generators is it directly advancing the main bar.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@NuclearBurrito2So if I have all generators with 5 parts, you're saying that I still have 400 seconds left to do? (+the 20/40)
If not then I've indeed been doing the main objective.
no you have 400 charges. We don't measure progress in terms of time and if we did then cleansing ruin totems, opening chests that contain toolboxes, and healing in the case of thanatophobia would all ALSO be doing the main objective.
Ah, so if there exists a key that can be found and you find it, it instantly activates the exit gates, you haven't progressed 400 generator charges generator charges, meaning you've been doing a side-objective and not progressed the main objective?/ or does it mean it simply progressed to the last 20/40 of the objective bar, meaning you just did the biggest part of the main objective?
Spoiler alert: It's the latter. Charges have nothing to do with it. Whether it directly subtracts from the time needed to complete your objective does.
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Only on on installing, which is why I said crafting/collecting and transporting doesn’t equal doing a gen... but do proceed in telling me how that’s incorrect
No this is how it works:
When you do a part you simply have 10 seconds of generator time. Which can still be undone/regressed. The moment it's installed it adds + 5 seconds and there's your permanent 15 seconds.Also running in between what are essentially small generators isn't doing a side-objective. That is also doing the main objective. Otherwise it'd be playing "lava-floor"; as long as you walk you're side-questing.
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So if I have all generators with 5 parts, you're saying that I still have 400 seconds left to do? (+the 20/40)
If not then I've indeed been doing the main objective.
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Main Objective:
That which reduces from the 420/440 second bar resulting in the escape route being opened up, Thus:
-Opening exit gates = -20
-Doing a full generator = -80
-Doing parts = - 15 per partThings that don't subtract from this timer:
Healing: = Still 420/440 left to do
Sabotaging: = Still 420/440 left to do
Cleansing dull totem: = Still 420/440 left to do
etc. -
We are talking about things that you do. There's no "To charge".
There's To sit still next to a gen for 80 seoncds or to go to workshops and install parts. Both directly subtract from the 420/440 second bar. It has nothing to do with charges.
It has to do with whether it subtracts from the 420/440.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@Mc_Harty said:
370 comments...
Why the [BAD WORD] is there 370 comments?Because of flowers, steak and other things that probably smell very good.
When are we going to talk about perfume?
?
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Nope not quoting me your paraphrasing and misquoting.. please do continue I’m sure if you keep doing it you’ll convince me I said what you want me to say.
Doing parts does not equal doing a gen, the use for the part is for the completion of a gen, but the locating and crafting transporting, does not equate to doing a gen, that is a side quest for doing the gen...
and I don’t know why you’ve gone back to this topic, in the first place... oh wait yeah I do...
Coming back to a wrong position you still hold?
Doing parts does not equal doing a gen
Doing a part DIRECTLY equals doing x amount of seconds in the 420/440 second main bar of progression. THAT MAIN BAR OF PROGRESSION is you doing YOUR MAIN OBJECTIVE.
Doing 5 Parts means minus 5*15 = 75 seconds from the 420/440 main objective bar. Yes that is doing your main objective xD
Doing exit gates also isn't doing Gens you genius. (Spoiler alert: Opening exit gates is doing the main objective) -
Nope it’s doing a gen, without side questing to do it
Doing parts equals doing a generator. Creating the part is literally finishing 10 seconds of irregressable gen time.
There is no redefinition. Your definition is; something that isn't mandatory to do for completing your main
Doing 70 seconds on a generator are simply not mandatory. They are just a bonus to what you can already do to parts.
please stop trying to re-define my logic
I'm LITERALLY QUOTING YOU LMAO Go to page 2, bahaha:
From you:
The objective that I'm going to create will not be mandatory..... and if it’s not mandatory Its???
If an objective is not mandatory it is side-questing. (your logic)
70 seconds of not mandatory side-questing you have right there. -
Stop right there
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I do agree deranking, dcing and dodging need looking at.
Same, but;
Deranking should not be able to happen so easily,
In other games it also easy and not an issue. In HeartStone you can just join a ranked match and DC, yet HeartStone doesn't face any Deranking issues even though deranking is the easiest thing, since there are no penalties to DC'ing.
Maybe the issues lies elsewhere, rather than it being about ease?
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you can either just play the standard game
Standard game? There's no such things as the standard game. There is just the game.
I'm sorry, but if you've been sitting at a generator for 80 seconds, you've been side-questing for 70 seconds.
Those 70 seconds sitting there putting in regressable charges were not mandatory. If it's not mandatory then it is....?If it's not mandatory then it is............?
Well it's side-questing by your own logic xD
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@PhantomMask20763 said:
Have an awesomePuts an awesome
Bet you didn't see that one coming!
What does it mean? What does it say? We'll never knoee~
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@HawkAyeTheNoo said:
Toxic for running a perk which is readily available in the game, ok.Toxic =/= illegal.
Running any perk in the game is legal. -
@JoyfulLeader said:
I miss the LOL button, does anyone know why it was removed?
R.I.P LOL Button
First the downvote button meant downvote:
Then the LOL button became the new downvote...
Now the Awesome button became the new downvote?Don't awesome this comment
Paranoia intensifies -
@Paddy4583 said:
AlwaysInAGoodShape said:And I showed how this makes doing flat generators a side-quest. Since you don't need to do 80 seconds of gen time in front of a gen; that is an option.
I've said that countless of times;
Either both doing parts and doing flat gens are side-questing and there's no main objective or both are main objectives and neither side-questing.
But only one of those option involves a side quest.....
The main objective is to complete the gen,
option 1 do the gen
option 2 do something else before doing a gen.All you did was add the word flat in front of a gen to deflect form the only difgrence being tha additional step that isn’t required to do the gen.
No paddy. Doing a part EQUALS doing about 15 seconds of a gen. You are in fact progressing a generator.
If you've done 5 parts' you've simply done 70 seconds of generator progression that is irregressable. That is doing the main objective.
What is a side-quest is doing 35 portions of 10 seconds of regressable generator progress at a generator, while these 35 portions were optional.
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@Mc_Harty said:
370 comments...
Why the [BAD WORD] is there 370 comments?Because some people don't believe that progressing generators is the main objective in the game.
Some people believe that if you have to score 100 points and you have 2 options:
Pressing A gives you 1 point and pressing B gives you 5 points but can only be clicked 5 times, then they claim that pressing B is a side-quest to scoring points. -
Yes
You’ve stated that most people when they want secondary objectives just want to add more time to gens in the form of something else that is mandatory, inherently you believe this to be nothing more than a nerf to prolong the survivors escape
And I don't do that. There's no hypocrisy.
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Nothing about doing parts is sidequesting. When you are doing a part you are directly finishing 10 seconds of irregressable gen time. Installing it is directly doing 5 seconds of irregressable gen time; Why would doing 10 seconds of regressable gen time over 35 times more than you actually have to be main questing if it can be skipped over completely?
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the addition being the collection of parts before doing a gen.
The addition being doing up to 70 seconds more in front of a generator. up to 70 seconds of side-questing.
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And I showed how this makes doing flat generators a side-quest. Since you don't need to do 80 seconds of gen time in front of a gen; that is an option.
I've said that countless of times;
Either both doing parts and doing flat gens are side-questing and there's no main objective or both are main objectives and neither side-questing. -
LINE 1: x + 5 - y
LINE 2: x = 4.
LINE 3: y = 9
That is not evading telling you what y is.LINE 1: In a multi-route environment no route is mandatory
LINE 2: My op is a multi-route environment.
LINE 3: Doing parts is not mandatory. -
What makes something a side-quest; simple question inherently?
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there are no flowers in dead by daylight, sorry, stick to reality please.
Flowers refers to what I mentioned earlier. I said:
See the OP, but 1 thing changes: the generator transforms into a flower when a part is installed.To do the thinking for you: Do parts >>> Do flowers >>> end the game without ever putting a charge into a single generator.