AlsendDrake
AlsendDrake
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@DeathsCrimsonMaiden said:
I sincerely hope that this gets noticed by BHVR, because the issues killers are facing are seriously ridiculous.
This is probably going to be a long post, and I don't plan on making a Tl;dr, so buckle up.
Does anyone see the issue with Tru3 and Otz making alot of videos along the lines of "TOXIC SWEATY RANK 1 SMURF CRINGE 4 MAN SWF VS DOC"? Doesn't that kinda conflict with the game looking to be "casual pvp"? Also, why do they feel it is such a big accomplishment to go against optimal survivors? Doesn't that mean that kind of imply that survivors have the uppers hand? I don't think they are just catering to a bunch of bad killers, since he reaches well over 100k on these videos.
I took a break from Dbd for a while, and got back to playing Apex Legends. I actually felt like I had an equal opportunity against my opponent, even if they had a better gun, or a better body shield, or even better addons. It felt amazing being able to outplay an entire squad, and that got me thinking.
Dbd lacks a LOT of outplaying.
There is no skill in running from safe, un-mindgameable pallet to pallet. There is no skill in taking a full 30 seconds to get from one gen to another. There is no skill in the survivor dead harding to a pallet to avoid getting downed.
There is so little that the killer can really do besides run in circles and waste their time. The game doesn't give the killer equal opportunity to outplay the survivors.
I have a challenge for every person that plays killer regularly: Play another pvp game. Try it out for a while, take a break from this game. Apex Legends, Destiny 2, Fortnite, Smash bros, almost any other online pvp game really. It feels so much better than playing killer.
It would be kind of silly to bring up these issues without solutions, however, i've been able to identify the biggest hindrances to Killer v Survivor balance. Map design, Perks, and Items.
Map design is for the most part awful. I think a great example of how not to make a map is the corn maps. They have all the things that create a bad killer map: An easily accessible, strong center structure, un-mindgameable pallet loops, loops being too close to each other, and the map itself being huge. It is no wonder these maps have the highest survival rate (55%). The changes that need to be made to this map in particular are simple. Balance the center structure's windows, create an in-game value to help prevent the randomizer from putting loops to close to eachother, add more to standard loops to make them more mindgameable (i.e putting hay bales in the tractors, making other structures taller), and making the map smaller. Small maps are good for killers AND survivors since it promotes more interaction between the two, which is more skillful, and it rewards strong loopers, while killers don't lose too much gen time simply because the walk there is so long (which isn't skillful)
This check list for making sure maps aren't too powerful for survivors would dramatically change how killer feels. The only reason people used Ruin so much was because of terrible map design. Ruin's nerf was just another bad band-aid fix that addresses very few aspects of a bigger problem.
I think survivor's perks having a somewhat greater effect than killer's is justified. It would be boring if all the perks had a similar effect like killer's (Bitter Murmur v. Dark Sense), but... survivors have items to compensate for the lack of an ability. It's literally in the same slot area as killer, so wouldn't that be kinda unjust to have really powerful survivor perks? The best perks killer have are usually aura reading (Bbq, Nurses), or things that help in a chase (Enduring + Spirit Fury is almost mandatory at high ranks) while survivors have not only multiple second chance perks (Dh, Ds), but also perks that can cripple the killer's pressure by performing actions by themselves that would regularly require another survivor (Unbreakable, Deliverance) Survivors already have abilities in the form of items, should they really have insanely powerful perks?
Hell, the items themselves are problematic. I know they are looking into changing toolboxes, but I have a really high feeling it's just going to be something marginal like making the skill checks smaller. Almost every item works to make the killer's pressure less effective. Med-kits, Toolboxes, Flashlights, and The Survivor's version of moris, the ######### Keys.
I want this game to do well, there is no other cat and mouse game like Dead by Daylight. If I wanted to watch this game flop into irrelevancy, I wouldn't have typed all of this up. Give killers just a nudge, we have been needing that whole asymmetry deal lol.
I do wanna let you know there IS another game like DbD. I'm fact, BHVR even helped them a little. Identity V. It's actually really good too. And very f2p friendly.
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Really, imo the only big issue I have with it mechanically is locker cheese. If you're grabbed from a locker, you should not get to use DS, because that has no counterplay beyond staring at the locker, which a killer can't afford to do.
Also, I do have a reasoning issue with the stun length. They upped it to 5 because Enduring was a thing, but never touched it when Enduring got that Nerf. (Like .1 second faster pallet stun time less but losing all the other sources is indeed a Nerf in my book, even if pallet stuns are more common.)
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@korean_zombie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1077693#Comment_1077693
Comms as basekit would be the beginning of a balance point. its so obvious when your versing a SWF and/or good SoloQ gamers. Its so obvious when you're not. Some players don't need comms because their game sense is already really good but it is impossible to balance this game with a HUGE advantage to comms that is not accounted for.
Sadly based on Dev comments and their decisions, I feel like a good chunk of them are probably rank 18s.
Heck, even just a system like Identity V would be leaps and bounds better.
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@toxicmegg said:
no ######### all of these perks are counterable but you decide to complain and ask for nerfs instead of adapting.
DS - stop tunneling
BT - stop tunneling
DH - bait it
here again we see why killers are the whiny part of this community..
Tbh, DS and BT complaints mostly seem to stem from survivors using them offensively from what I've seen.
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@TheCrookedMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1077693#Comment_1077693
No. It was nerfed because it was a perk that was unhealthy. It had no interaction on the killer's end, and it required survivors to be bad at skill checks. And if they WEREN'T bad at skill checks then Ruin was basically a dud. It was oppressive against survivors who weren't as good at skill checks and it was annoying for them to deal with. And according to the devs, when they tested the new Ruin changes even if they lost to the new Ruin it was a lot less aggravating to deal with. And the devs are trying to go for a more fun casual orientated game. If you are mad about the Ruin changes while gens are being done lightning quick then that's fine as long as you don't pretend that the perk was healthy.
What is annoying is that it was a band-aid for how fast good survivors could plow through gens early game, and because of it, devs just let it fester. They do that a lot. If there's an issue with the core game, just release a perk for it!
It's the idea that it was removed because it was annoying for survivors without anything being done to address the reason why it was run so much. Kinda like how it's annoying they upped DS stun time because Enduring but then never touched it when they made Enduring only work on pallets.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I mean, Killers can destroy 4 Survivors to get rid of Adrenaline. But other than that, every one of those Perks has a Counter which does not involve any work from the Killer.
DS-->Dont go for the unhooked guy.
Unbreakable-->Pick the downed guy up. (In fact, its the Killers decision to slug... unbreakable is the counter to this decision)... And if someone does not go for the unhooked person right away, they also dont have to deal with that "either get DSed or Unbreakable"-Shenaningans.
BT-->Hit the Unhooker. Usually, if they are really hook-rushing, it is a Trade, because you can easily get a Hit before the Unhook and most likely after the Unhook as well.
If the survivor jumps in a locker all you can do is eat the ds. Additionally, you can get DS without tunneling
And sometimes the rescued survivor will bodybkock die to having basically a free hit.
Tbh, the biggest issue people have with the perks from what I've seen is survivors starting to use them offensively.
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I mean, ruin was nerfed because it was "overused" because when they see a bandaid being used, it's obviously a bad band-aid and not being used to cover up a percieved problem.
So by Dev logic, these survivor perks that are used a ton also need nerfed, right? :P
Like, seriously, these devs seem all over the place. At this point imo the one big fix is to give all survivors coms at base then you can work on balance, as right now they are trying to balance around SWF come squads and solos, who are on such different levels it's just not gonna happen.
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@Shirtless_Myers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076744#Comment_1076744
This doesn't exactly feel like a fair change and is easy to exploit as the killer. Let's say another survivor is farming hooked players in front of a killer who's camping. The killer can easily down the person farming their team, but the killer can then chase and smack down the previously hooked survivor. Hook the rescuer first and they get no chance at DS even though they were technically tunneled off the hook.
Of you downed the rescuer, then they weren't really tunneled though, they just either didn't get far enough away before you downed the rescuer, or the rescuer made a bad play and hurt the team
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Honestly, add a totem counter and then it's entirely the survivors fault, as there's no excuse of not knowing how many were down.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075137#Comment_1075137
I've listed perks which provide large benefits to killers without them having to go out of their way to receive the benefits.
I could make the same point you have here about the survivor perks listed by the OP.
A second-chance perk, to me, is any perk which provides you with a benefit that doesn't really require much effort.
When you consider how the killer should be constantly in chase to slow the gens down, if a killer perk requires them to go out of their way, then it's likely not very good. Due to how the one has time working against them and has to try and get as much as they can, by your definition, any perk that's good in that situation is a second chance perk though, if I understood it right?
And I'd say of any perk that's good, Pop is certainly not in that because of the requirements.
You need to good someone, get to a gen, and kick it. If there's no survivor on that gen, that's a pretty big time sink. If there is one on the gen, kicking it is a time sink too.
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I recall hearing about a test of slower progression on good was tried.
Survivors aparently proceded to just look near the hook to abuse it.
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@Only2Megabytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059734#Comment_1059734
Noed is the biggest second chance perk of all as its meant to allow you to easily down survivors when you fail to prevent the exit gates from being powered.
Blood warden blocks the gates allowing you a second chance to get survivors.
Being a hex perk, NOED also punishes survivors for not doing the secondary objective (though they really should make totems do something on their own and make them a clear second objective, and add a totem counter.)
Blood Warden only triggers if you hook a survivor once the gates are open, so it actually rewards a killer for getting a success in clutch time.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059465#Comment_1059465
And the killer can ensure NOED comes into play by defending the totems, if it comes to that. I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but the fact is the killer can employ strategies to prevent DS from coming into play if they choose to, which was the logic that the person I was replying to was using as a basis on which to claim that NOED wasn't a second chance perk. If NOED isn't a second chance perk by that logic then DS isn't either (and we all know that's not true).
What? Defend the totems? You do realize the killer has no clue where dull totems are, right?
I mean, NOED is the most second chancey of the perks, and because it's tied to totems it kinda also punishes survivors just gen rushing. (Though they should add a totem counter 100%)
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@flufflypillow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1058836#Comment_1058836
No thank you for DS and maybe BT. I don’t care about adrenaline so they can do whatever to that. DS has already been changed and it’s for punishing tunneling, plus it help solo players. I wanna know your idea for BT though with its nerf. BT is also for punishing killers that tunnel, but I see why some people what it nerf.
You probably did this as a joke though-
I mean, if they're serious I think I can guess why:
DS and BT are defensive perks people have taken to using offensively.
Tbh, imo BT's only issue is that Deep Wounds is just garbage. They should really make it survivor only and rework Legion imo. Then they can do stuff with it.
DS's only real mechanical issue imo is the locker cheese and the frustration when you hook someone else and then get the first again and get punished for essentially doing too well. (Though I am a bit annoyed they buffed it to 5 seconds because Enduring countered it hard, then when they made Enduring Pallets only, didn't touch it, but that's just nitpicking :P)
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At low ranks any killer can be "op" because many survivors kinda suck, and one weak link can be devestating in a team game, but due to the emblems these bad players could be getting positive reinforcement anyways.
I had a game where I was just messing around as Pig and they couldn't even do a single gen even when they at one point had 2 people on a gen on the other side of the map I STILL somehow got across before they could pop it.
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Because then you could be punished for survivors being dumb.
So many times low rank survivors quickly rescue their ally then go blendette stealth mode leaving their ally to die. Or said survivor just happens to be the first found after a heal. There's just situations a blanket penalty will punish that would be unfair and make people feel as if they're being forced to play by "The Survivor's Rules for Killers"
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It's more than just nurse tbh. M/K would also let you do more, and make 360s harder because the tracking on it can be more towards the player and not the static turn speed of a controller. Would also make some manuveurs easier to do. As it is, it feels pretty bad trying to play killer on controller tbh.
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Honestly, they need to make some core gameplay changes, preferably in making totems a true second objective perhaps, and THEN we can address more changes
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Survivors comeback mechanic:
If you're last survivor standing, hatch will ALWAYS spawn, even if 0 gens and you don't have any perks.
If hatch is closed you then get the exit gates powered.
Killers to get their comeback power need to:
Spend a perk slot.
Not have totems cleansed.
Find a survivor.
Hit said survivor.
Hope perk isn't cleansed.
Honestly, they should just add a totem counter and see how much that one change helps tho.
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Netease runs Identity V as well, so I doubt they'd want to also micromanage DbD and basically compete with themselves.
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These are the same devs that, iirc, said like "self care is only used in 20% or so of builds" but then someone got a bunch of data that pointed to it being more like 20% of total perk SLOTS. So with a Max of 25%
I don't recall the details or if I'm delusional, but if that really did happen, idk anymore XD
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@Polychrome_Baku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1043531#Comment_1043531
While I agree with you I've learn that no matter what strategy you use, one of the four survivors is going to call it "unfun". The only strategy that some survivors enjoy involves them escaping 100% of the time. Maybe if I played wraith and just AFK'd in the basement I could give them the kind of match they want.
Nah, you'd find someone who would screech at you anyways, because they didn't know where you were to teabag you or whatnot.
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@Clevite said:
Yes but all your references have rules within the game to promote fair and fun game play.
And I'd argue that camping and tunneling is not trying your best to win. It actually is limiting your growth as a killer and preventing one from learning how to track better and learn the skills to be a good killer.
Play how you want, I'm not arguing that. But let's not pretend that those strategies indeed involve low skill tactics.
BHVR had said in the past that knowing when to do what is important. Blindly camping is bad, yes. Blindly "tunneling" is bad, yes. But sometimes it is the best option.
Also, people seem to like to use tunneling to talk about trying to get rid of the weakest foe, but if I'm not mistaken it was meant to originally be more like specifically targeting a player. Like, you'll ignore the guy injured on death hook just to chase "JoeBob96" because you REALLY hate him.
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Overall, mechanicly, my only issue with DS is that it works off grabs. If you screwed up enough to get grabbed off a gen or locker, then you shouldn't get DS.
Heck, I'd even take only deactivating on locker grab, so that cheese isn't available.
Beyond that, my only real beef with DS is that they upped the stun time due to enduring, then when they changed enduring they didn't change the stun time.
And my only issue with BT is an issue with Legion. Specifically, Deep Wounds. Having an effect be used in a survivor buff AND a killer kit is... Kinda dumb. It makes it so you can't really do anything with it. As make it too killer sided and the buff becomes bad, make it too survivor sided, and Legion suffers even more. As it is right now, Borrowed Time is now basically just a free health state.
I vote for rework Legion, and make Deep Wounds a survivor only status, and maybe remove mending so you have to find an ally? Or some way that it's not just a free health state you can extend as long as you want untill you can heal yourself? Idk, I'm just naming things.
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@Cymer said:
You don't get it. Survivors are 80% of the player base. If something annoys them, it has to go! They bring their friends, spend money on cosmetics to be "cool" and peer pressure their friends to do the same. The loner killer not so much, so why give a #########? They don't bring in the big money. Catering to them is a waste of time and resources aka money. Their will always be enough killers, because DBD is the only game with that feature. So their is no where to go.
Thing is, BHVR KNOWS there's another game like DbD. Hell, they helped work on it. Identity V.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1038423#Comment_1038423
"Killers did that to tell the game is actually unplayable (at least for the standard 4,6 ms killer),"
It isnt.
Man, it is really funny how you Killer Mains act:
BHVR releases stats-->"You cannot see which Ranks, so they are worthless!"
BHVR releases new stats, with Red Ranks-->"All platforms are mixed, it is worthless!"
Future explanation when BHVR releases stats-->"Survivors kill themselves to false the data!"
I would laugh, when I would not be sure that this is meant entirely serious.
Don't pretend that it doesn't happen from both sides.
*Data shows 60% escape rate spiking to 80% because of dumb stay taking method*
"It only records post game stats, so it doesn't count!"
Can't we just all agree BHVR stats are inconsistent and rough
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Really, they should just make WGLF (and the points half of BBQ) baseline and rework it. And maybe add gen completion to it?
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@PokemonGOPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030808#Comment_1030808
Didn't they say that they won't slowdown perks not to work well when paired with each other? I don't expect changes in the near future but I wouldn't be surprised to see Sloppy nerfed, for example.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1030902#Comment_1030902
They said the only Survivor perk with high usage is Self Care which is ridicolous and proves they cover all ranks, not just the people that know how to play.
Usage based bans are not the right approach to this game since data is tainted by the fact that ranking is not incentivized, hence there are few spikes who only play what's good in order to win.
I remember at one point they were like "Self Care is only used in like, 15-20% of games!" And then someone counted for awhile, and it looked like what they MEANT was "Self Care is only used in like, 15-20% of perk slots!" Or something.
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You do realize that not only does BBQ already have a bunch of counters, but it's also likely used largely for the BP bonus cause grind is so rough.
Honestly, they should just make BBQ's BPG and WGLF baseline, and rework WGLF.
That happens, and the amount of BBQ killers will likely plummet.
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@BrinierSword4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1022273#Comment_1022273
Dude listen how do you counter the clown if you know what you are doing? I need this information because he completely makes windows and pallets useless and I am tired of it
Have allies who do gens is about all you need.
Clown has no movement and limited bottles, and the slowdown isn't too bad. He's still kinda suffering in pallet loops, you just can't get as many as against, say, Oni. Play safe, and once he's out, either transition to a stronger spot, or proceed to loop a powerless killer.
And know screaming doesn't show your aura, only where you are on the scream, and tbh, if you're running and the killer has a Headset, they'll know which way you're going anyways, so that parts not really a big use of it.
Honestly, Freddy Snares > Bottles.
As for doc, it should be about the same as before. Try to get your vaults in before he shocks, and try not to go in a path that you'll get boxed in if you do get shocked. If he goes to shock, you can keep running and try to avoid it.
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Honestly, imo DS is mostly fine. Only thing that should be changed is make it not work if grabbed from a locker, as that's just pure Legion moonwalking levels of cheese.
Other than that it has its counter and should be ok
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1018324#Comment_1018324
Deep Wounds are fine. They're either broken or not. Nothing in between.
Having a mechanic that's supposed to be tied to something positive for both sides in an adymetrical makes it really hard to get it balanced AND feeling good. I think it really would benefit if they completely reworked Legion and then made Deep Wounds something specifically for survivors.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1016889#Comment_1016889
BT op? You good man?
"Borrowed Time was pretty fine imo, but then they tied it into Deep Wounds and it turned from a delayed hit to essentially just a free hit. Deep Wounds in and of itself is kinda just a poorly designed mechanic imo."
Idk where you saw OP in there. What I'm saying is more that Deep Wounds as a mechanic sucks.
Unless you're reading me saying getting essentially a free hit is really good is saying it's OP? but because of the mess that is Legion, and their decision to tie a survivor perk and a killer power together is a mess, as it dooms the effect to utter mediocrity. If it's too survivor sided, Legion become trash as BT becomes amazing. If it's too killer sided, Legion becomes godlike while BT will suffer heavilly. They should really rework Deep Wounds into a survivor effect tied to endurance and fully change Legion imo.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Ghostface is BS on both Sides. You sometimes cannot break him out or break him out without seeing him. Just wait for BHVR to fix him, he is basically not ready to release - despite released for a long time already...
But yeah, have to agree, it is bullshit to call it "Stalking" when he just walks behind you, completely visible.
Maybe they should change it that you reveal him by pointing at him.
I mean, it's consistent with Meyer's "Stalking" to be fair
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1015511#Comment_1015511
Im not complaing about enduring spirit fury just saying there second chance perks
Enduring/Spirit Fury eats two perk slots to occasionally skip a pallet. You know, until survivors start pulling the pallets a bit earlier or start using Jungle Gyms. It eats 2 perks and is quite counter able.
Remember me is... Pretty bad now. You have to build it up for, what, at most 16 seconds? Maybe. When it could be built to 30, it was ok, but only 16 seconds in endgame only, and having to have been 3 perks most of the match? At least Ruin would buy time early game.
And Blood Warden isn't really a second chance, as you have to actually earn it for what, a minute? But if you're not running a one shot and they're healthy, it becomes much less useful.
While DS is mostly fine imo tbh, my one issue is if you get in a locker, there's no countering it beyond a stare-off. I can deal with the tunnel punishment" when you down and hook someone fast then happen to find them, but at least that you could slug for a few.
Borrowed Time was pretty fine imo, but then they tied it into Deep Wounds and it turned from a delayed hit to essentially just a free hit. Deep Wounds in and of itself is kinda just a poorly designed mechanic imo.
Dead Hard is annoying at times yes, but it's also counter able. You can bait it. You can keep up with the dash if close enough. Sure, it's strong in extending loops, but really it also rewards survivors for being a bit greedy and can influence them into bad plays without it.
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The issue is that because of a number of killers lacking movement ability, paired with family large distances needed, means that often the best way to get pressure is to kill a survivor off asap while possible. Such as if you see two survivors, both hurt, but ones on death hook, it would be simply dumb to go after the other.
Killing one survivor chops survivor efficiency by 25-33%. It's just how the game is made, and the only real fix would require Devs to make a change of some kind that would reward killers for spreading the pain. Maybe as a random thought, injured survivors repair slower, incentivising healing up more, which then would mean a killer who spreads the pain would be rewarded with time? Idk, any other ideas that would reward a killer for spreading the pain?
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@YaBoiFreddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1003578#Comment_1003578
It's not a matter of "If" its in the report section why is that so hard to understand??? More to the point
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1003568#Comment_1003568
Ur point is invalid body blocking doesn't take the game hostage anyway as u just hit them and they downed its trolling so again where's your facts??
Ok, I think your point isn't being stated very well, or you're just trolling, because as I understand it, you were the one who claimed that Body Blocking, as in survivors trying to take hits to protect allies, which is an intended mechanic, even with a perk that REQUIRES it, is reportable because it's on the list, when it's more referring to things like body blocking a player to trap them. It doesn't matter that it says body blocking there, survivors running interference for their allies is not reportable, it's intended.
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@YaBoiFreddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1003544#Comment_1003544
Again man I swear u didn't goto school it says "report this player for intentionally using abilities or game mechanics to the detriment of the game. EXAMPLES: TAKING THE GAME HOSTAGE, (<<<A COMMA) BODY BLOCKING, WORKING WITH THE KILLER" there ain't nothing wrong with my reading ability champ u clearly need glasses
If body blocking was reportable, then why is there not only a bp reward for it, but a perk that literally requires you to do it to activate?
Should be kinda obvious it doesn't mean a survivor taking a hit for an ally, as there's literally stuff rewarding that in-game.
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@yandere777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/999275#Comment_999275
The hiding rank thing was not pushed onto live. It was found on a leaked patch note list so honestly I'd just not bring that into an argument. I say give doc a week or two on live servers to see how he fairs against rank ones.
Ruin nerf sucks but it was needed. It wasn't done to nerf killers or cater to new players. It was done, from the way i see it, for game health. With ruin in the equation the devs couldn't make any changes at all to gens. Doesnt matter if it was a good one or not but they couldn't touch them because of the unpredictable variable called ruin. Ruin needed to be gone so the devs can see the bigger problems in a better sense. Of course gens go fast but how fast and why? Ruin clogged the gen data and now that it's gone we can easily see what needs fixing and how. Maybe toolboxes will be looked at now that ruin is gone because the devs can see just how efficient or inefficient they preform.
Thats just my take on ruin changes.
I thing the big backlash is that they've just used perks as Band-Aids for core issues for so long, these issues have festered, and now they're just removing the bandage with no word on if they'll even try to work on the wound anytime soon.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/996287#Comment_996287
I dop agree with what you say the core issue is, but comms in an already intensely toxic game could be more negative, although I could very well be wrong with that one.
It's definitely an idea that I hope the devs at least consider.
Heck, even a system akin to Identity V, with pre-made pings that give info and point you in the direction of who said it. And certainly show other survivors perks too.
It's just coms would likely be easier to implement, and would let them focus more on the balancing half. And of course, would have a mute system, just in case
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995644#Comment_995644
If the match-making wasn't pairing them with higher ranked Survivors, than they wouldn't have an issue when it comes to gens flying...
As it would pair them with Survivors or Killers that're equally in-experienced, so the issue wouldn't be as bad for the low ranks.
I've also argued before the Corrupt Intervention can be equal or better than Ruin, other Hex's like Devour Hope (surprising I know), and Huntresses Lullaby with 4-5 tokens are as strong or stronger than Ruin in some regards.
Yes, these Hex's require set-up time UNLIKE Ruin which doesn't, but a Hex perk isn't supposed to last more than a minute, it's a gamble, if the gamble pays off that that's good for the Killer... if not, than they try next game to see if it'll work this time.
Corrupt Intervention doesn't have this issue though, so that's why it's considered equal or better than Ruin. You can still have a set-up time with Trapper using Corrupt, or Hag with Corrupt, or even Clown with the proper perks that can lessen the map pressure issue.
But I do agree that the lower-tiered Killers do need a sort of buff to help them out with some of their own personal issues, but one issue at a time...
Problem is, Ruin was the band-aid for the core issue, but instead of addressing the issue and then removing the band-aid, they instead let the wound fester and then removed the band-aid.
They seem fond of that in fact. Just tossing Band-Aids on every issue via perks and instead of addressing the core issues, they just let it fester then remove the band-aid later. Sometimes.
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Hell, if someone thinks that small skill checks are super hard are either new at it or super casual.
Heck, hope they never try Binding of Issac or Enter the Gungeon, let alone something like a Dark Souls game :p
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/995644#Comment_995644
Many Trapper and Hag players made the switch to CI a long time ago; it buys some serious setup time and narrows down the search radius, so I really do believe this change is more likely to hurt those that relied on a zero interaction perk to do the work for them than those that always tried to adapt.
Ruin most certainly was a band-aid, though. I do agree on that. But I do see good players of even M1 killers getting some great use out of it...assuming it survives their setup time. Which is an issue with hex perks that I really think just need the rules for activation/deactivation changing tbh.
Honesty, it's my opinion that the issue is right now balance is impossible.
Solo Survivor < Random SWF/lowtier/newer player killers < good killers < SWF team 6.
They really need to learn you sometimes have to kill your darlings. Give all survivors coms, bringing solo up to par with SWF, then buff killers who can't deal with coordinated survivors up to where they can, balance out gens with coordinated teams, and then from there balance is far easier to work on, as currently the rift between randoms and swf coordinating is so massive it's not even funny.
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@FireHazard said:
my honest opinion on this subject
I personally think a lot of people are jumping the gun with the Ruin change and in-general the Killer player-count.
My builds used Ruin so often because of how effective it was, eventually because of this... 80% of my builds incorporated it... only some of my Killers like Legion, Spirit, Billy, and some others were spared from this, mainly because the builds I had for them didn't require Ruin AND I personally didn't want to use Ruin on them.
I haven't used Spirit since her road to P3-50 and for some dailies... and I haven't used Billy since probably mid-2019 I think? For dailies yeah, otherwise not so much in terms of one or two matches.
And Legion I have used a lot, even after his various nerfs and buffs.
here's the point though
I personally believe this change is for the better, since Ruin was so effective that most of my builds incorporated it... it really dried up the potential for any "builds" besides something like Ruin, BBQ, ???, and ??? depending on the Killer.
BBQ for points, and Ruin because it was effective and helpful for the mid/low tier Killers that needed it. But here's the thing, other perks that do this "less effectively" or the same exist, Corrupt Intervention exists, Huntresses Lullaby with 4-5 tokens exists, Devour Hope builds exists... there are options!
Yes Devour and Huntresses require a build up, but Hex perks were never meant to last more than 1 minute on average, Hex perks are just a gamble... if they last above a minute than the gamble paid off, if not, than the gamble failed for that match.
so why does this tie in with the "killers leaving the game" issue?
Because this wasn't a "big thing" until Ruin was announced for a change, so I feel people are just jumping the gun because of this change. If Killers honestly couldn't play without Ruin... than they were following a one-sided meta that had no variety.
But now... NOWS THE CHANCE FOR CHANGE! Now Killers can use more than 2 perks that're random, we're now able to expand and use 3 or 4!!! Many builds can be spawned from this, and long since dead niche builds can be revived once more!
Think about it, if the game was "dying", than wouldn't the player-count be drastically lower than the average? Wouldn't we be in the lowest point in DBD history with players? This game has the most consistent player counts for a multi-player horror game to date, and that's quite the accomplishment.
I think we're fine tbh, this always happens when a meta perk/power is nerf, changed, etc. The fires start to rise, but eventually only ashes will remain. In due time, people will accept this change... but the ones that can't will still remind us, so it's a double edged sword.
But hey, that's how it is for any meta changes, so this is to be expected.
Thing is, Ruin was most commonly used on lower tier killers as they needed the little bit of extra time because of how the gens can fly, as said killers simply cannot apply pressure as well as they need to, so Ruin was a band-aid.
BHVR decided to remove the band-aid before addressing the wound, and turned ruin into a perk that really mainly benefits the killers that didn't need ruin in the first place.
So, while this may give more perk flexibility, it'll likely hurt KILLER flexibility, as now slower killers like Clown, Trapper, Hag, and so on lost their one tool to slow the gens down a bit.
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@DanteMorello said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/992378#Comment_992378
Maybe you should try to truly read a post before answering? Is English a language you can handle?
Most people will barely increase their skill. These days most people play casually. I told you so in my first comment. Which you obviously did not bother reading well.
In every competitive game the lower ranks will be the majority for the entire time of the game's existence.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/992389#Comment_992389
Again you did not read or even partially understand what I said.
I said that it makes utterly no sense to balance a game around a fracture of it's player base that generates little to no money...
In the games I mentioned it was possible because they (the high ranks) were generating money and because of esport events they were able to be strong role models for the player base. Bad balancing in their favour was therefor forgiven.
DbD can never do this. Solely because of it's asynchronous nature. Therefor it can never be balanced around the high ranks.
Really cool to fast read a post for 2 or 3 buzzwords and then ######### post.
So, because people are potatoes, they should be rewarded for not getting better is what that kinda sounds like?
Learning survivor isn't too hard. Gens are pretty easy to learn by doing, and then it's just learn loops, and then learn to counter killers and perks by doing.
Catering to the potatoes though is an easy way for them to not learn, as if you can get anything nerfed instead of learning to counter it, why bother?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Its not cheating. People who say it is cheating are stupid. (No other word can be used for that)
I mean, by the strictest definition, they are using a third party program to gain an unfair, unintended advantage, so it's TECHNICALLY like... Hacking? Even though it's not punishable.
Seriously, they just need to give all survivors coms or at least a system like Identity V and just balance around coms.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Its not cheating. People who say it is cheating are stupid. (No other word can be used for that)
I mean, by the strictest definition, they are using a third party program to gain an unfair, unintended advantage, so it's TECHNICALLY like... Hacking? Even though it's not punishable.
Seriously, they just need to give all survivors coms or at least a system like Identity V and just balance around coms.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I do agree that disabling DS when someone else gets hooked is a bad idea, not because of the examples you gave exactly, but merely the fact that a defensive perk that the killer (or other survivors) can control is very, very hard to rely on. The survivor who is bringing the perk should have more control of the perk than anyone else in the match -- not the least.
The way I see it though, if you attempt to either unhook someone else, work on generators, or touch the killer's belongings after being unhooked (hooks, totems), then you have absolutely no right to complain about whether you are being tunneled or not; because you're clearly are not making an attempt to flee from the killer if you are doing any of those things. This doubles if you are the last survivor left, or if all the generators are done (if all the generators are done and you haven't had the ability to use DS, then you probably were not tunneled for the entire game).
DS needs to be the defensive perk it was intended to be with its rework -- not this defensive perk that can also be used offensively. It's so broadly powerful that it literally makes survivors play stupid and they still get away with it most of the time.
Also get rid of that stupid ######### where survivors can use DS when being pulled out of lockers or at least put a delay on it so the killer can have the option to drop them. God forbid I'm chasing someone else as Huntress and want to quickly reload my hatchets so I can try to throw some mid/long-ranged shots, and the ######### survivor who got unhooked 50 seconds ago is in that very locker I just opened so I could reload -- yet I'm the one who gets punished for "tunneling". Happens to me way too ######### much.
Literally made an account to remind that the other side controlling your perks is actually really common for killer.
Hexes. Spirit Fury after the first time. Blood Warden. BBQ. There are a TON of killer perks that the survivors can pretty much negate by their actions.