Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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We see this kinda posts nearly daily, but I think that your post is one of the better: it got valid complaints and is not just an endless rant about essentially skill issues, but real problems this game got.
I will stay and play others on the side, but I fully get your drift and wish you the best, OP. Maybe we can welcome you back into the fog in the future, maybe this is a goodbye for good. And maaaaaybe someone higher up will read this goodbye and think about it? You never know.
So long, and thanks for the fish.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340703#Comment_3340703
I don't think that's an apt comparison really, considering that waiting out Dead Hard takes like 5 seconds at most to wait out and Eruption takes you out of the game for 25 seconds.
You failed at your own comparison. On one side you talk about a successful counter, on the other about a full on hit by said ability. "This apple here is bright red, while this orange here is just a pale orange. How sad."
Waiting out a DH in theory only takes abot 5s, letting go of a gen at the right moment also adds a max of 5s. Failing on countering Eruption takes you out of the game for 25s, failing at using DH takes you out of the game for about an equal amount and puts you on the hook (even though get some thrilling wriggle gameplay options). Failing to anticipate DH as he killer adds easily 25s to a chase in the 7frames prior to winning it, which is probably more frustrating then having to find a Bush to hide in for 25s.
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I dont get why everyone wants everything to become basekit. All that does is diluting perk variety and cementing the meta, as you get your cake, while also eating it with a side of your more "flashy and fun" meta perks.
Of course I would somewhat like to have a mini Corrupt Intervention on each and every of my killers, but here is the big idea: if I really think that I need this safety net at the start, there already IS a solution: I have Corrupt Intervention unlooked for all my killers and could just equip it. No need to ######### and moan about making it basekit, if I think that I need it, its already there.
If it WERE to be made basekit, even at just 25s or something, then I would probably never equip it again and just got +1 perk slot. How many native BT have you seen in the last month? Or two month? Maybe 2 combined? And that was probably returning players who had it still in their loadouts, not peeps that thought "dayum ... 20s of endurance ofter unhooking, THATS what will bring more value then Windows of Opportunity".
Each perk becoming basekit is a perk thats destroying loadout variety even more and just cementing the meta.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340297#Comment_3340297
That exactly, a much more detailed description than the way I put it. Would you mind if I posted that as an addendum at the top of the main post given the proclivity of users to skip thread contents?
However even if that is addressed, then you come across the problem with how most Exhaustion Perks like Sprint Burst/Lithe/Balanced Landing are disproportionally effective against Killers without mobility than those with mobility, as those Exhaustion Perks revolve around simply adding raw distance in a chase instead of attempting to augment how a player engages with a Loop.
You can gladly do with my post as you see fit.
Well, Exhaustion perks are a class of strong survivor perks that give them an edge, nothing wrong with that. Not every killer needs to be able to keep up with a survivor sprinting off, but if I startle a survivor at the gen at the upper level of coal tower, we both jump down and they speed off with balanced landing, I can then and there decide if its worth pursuing them, I don't have to wait till the end of the chase.
There is exactly nothing wrong with surviviors having strong perks that give them an edge in certain situations, thats why you design a build, but DH is so universally strong that its seen ubiquitous and disproportionately often. The short time after the 6.1 update was pretty fun: no one was using DH anymore, if you cornered someone you could just SWING without sniffing their butt and you saw all kinds of exhaustion perks. Now its again 3-4 DH per game, with the outlier being the game with just 2 DHs and this shows that there is something fundamentally wrong with the perk. If an option is SO much better then everything else in their class, this should be the biggest red flag that something needs to be done about it.
I only ever used DH for the couple of tome challenges, and I felt somewhat dirty about it. Besides that, I am a proud non-DH-survivor, who dies when cornered, but who also doesn't crutches on a single perk.
People alway claim that "when DH gets nuked, killer mains will just complain about SB, because that is actually stronger", but I call this a load of BS. Don't get me wrong, SB is strong and can be pretty anoying, but I have seen 3 SB lobbies shortly after 6.1 and that was no near as aggrevating then getting constantly robbed of your price 45s into a chase, 7 frames before you win. People who claim that the compaints about a SB meta (that never came into fruition, btw, no matter how much peeps struggled with the new DH at first) would reach ANYTHING close to what we see about DH of the past and the new DH are just coping so hard.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363933/the-fundamental-issue-with-dead-hard
The problem is that it has no downside. Every other exhaustion perk has some kind of downside.
- Adrenaline - Only activates in end-game and only activates once, mostly used for the heal more than the sprint burst.
- Balanced Landing - Very limited usage and heavily map dependent. Many maps only have 1 or 2 spots you can consistently use this at.
- Head On - Requires the survivor to jump into the locker and sit there for 3 seconds, can't really be used effectively in a chase without combining it with other perks.
- Lithe - Requires you to fast vault, meaning you can't loop perfectly efficiently when using it. In theory you could fast vault and not need to "waste" it, but if you slow vaulted you would get hit, making it one of the least efficient perks, but outside of dead hard is more on demand than the others.
- Overcome - Only works when going from a healthy state to an injured state. If you are hit while injured it doesn't work.
- Smash Hit - Requires you to land a pallet stun, which is sometimes easier said than done. Additionally, a pallet stun, depending on the pallet, killer and setup, can already be a chase ender anyway, so the value you get on this is much lower.
- Sprint Burst - You have to walk to not accidentally use it, or 99 it. This requires you to play around the sprint burst very very specifically and it isn't available for you on complete demand.
And then we have dead hard, where the "downside" is that you need to be injured, but becoming injured is a natural thing that will happen in the course of a chase. And if you don't get injured and you don't use it, you didn't need it. If yo do get injured, then it is always available to you at that point with no downside.
Or to break this down even further: every other exhaustion perk has its uses during a chase, either at the very start or shortly after the chase went on, while DH literally activates within the 9 frames prior to ending this chase and finally reap its benefits, and thats extremely frustrating.
Its the only exhaustion perk with a guranteed activation condition (safe for a couple of insta down effects) that is not tied to any tile or random quirk of the map, and all this combined makes it the strongest and most desirable exhaustion perk.
It would even see play if it could only be used once per game, it is that strong, and being able to use it over and over is just unparalleled in the game. Yes, its fairer then it previous itteration (wow, how broken was that?) and it can be baited out, but it is so meta that every single survivor gets the benefit of "baiting it out" until the killer knows for sure that a given survivor doesnt have it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339959#Comment_3339959
Circle of Healing for Eruption is a trade I will make every time.
Yes.
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You're just unlucky
But on a sidenote, I think killers shouldn't spawn SMACK in the middlof the map. When you spawn on one end you get at least an idea which gens to patrol, but when you spawn in the middle, two or even three gens could pop before you start moving in the right direction and that just feels awful.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339995#Comment_3339995
I think that could be too exploitable and tunneling is strat which I hope to be less effective. It's even unfun often for me as killer. I have stopped using it mostly now that im red rank 1 and spread my hooks. What I hope that would be most viable strat is to hook survivor A then B then A again then C, B again or D and then A for example. 8 hooking should never be the best strat I pull that off at times so I wonder how badly I would destroy some poor survivors if it would be the best... It would require massive killer buffs anyway so something in the middle ground I find should be the best and killers could get some more reasonable buffs then.
My DBD dream is this: killers get a BBQ light as basekit, ie on hook show them one random survivor that is 24m+ away AND give the killer a sizeable (like +15%) movement speed if they move in that general direction and aren't in any chase and something like 16m away from their target, thus making map traversal less of a pain for slow and/or M1 killers, but don't give them an unfair advantage in the chase, either.
Also give back incentives to hook everyone, ie a new score event "Entity appetiser" where you get +5k BP if you hook everyone at least once. As a bonus I would love some kind of Grim Embrace kina effect "block all gens for 30s upon hooking everyone at least once, while no survivor is dead". Tunnelers are gonna to tunnel, no matter what, but it would be nice to somehow enable a fun game without purposefully sabotaging yourself.
If you want killers not to camp and tunnel on default, then you need to make the fun way of playing worthwhile. You can only apply so much of the stick before they lash out, but the carrot is often the more effective tool.
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On a related sidenote: killers have next to no tools to screw with survivors perception, while they have a whole toolkit of spins, 360s, fake window vaults, dumb techs etc.
I would love for killers to have a true fake pickup, like hold shift while picking a survivor up to start the pickup animation and then auto drop the survivor before you hoist them up.
With killers like Demo or Hag you can sometimes ferret inexperienced survivors out by using your power instead of starting the pickup, but I would really love for killers to have some native options to play around and try to mindgame survivors instead of just being big, dumb brutes that can only tank control.
A fake palette kick/interruptable kick could be another fake arsenal that wouldn't be too strong, but help spice things up a bit.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339628#Comment_3339628
I have though this idea too so killers would not have to bait it out as most likely you will going to hit it once anyway so you have to only just eat it once and that's it. But I think ds with 80s timer should be made basekit then because dh can work as anti-tunneling perk too so survivors need something to help in that as tunneling is even now most viable strat and would still be.
How about a middle ground? The new DH gets one use and recharges if you get tunneled.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339779#Comment_3339779
There have been some examples of poor perk design. DS, MoM, and Dead Hard. Out of these three only one survived its changes because its the only one that's still useful.
DS, stun is too short.
MoM, just bad design
DH, no more distance but require timing to be effective.
To remove DH you would have to make it useless. To reduce its use, you have to provide perks that actually do something.
Now that something should not be brain dead push button = win. But something that requires timing and narrow use.
As for killer perks, they already suffered this burried into the groung problem. Most on release. I was going through perks the other day to do a Freddy daily. I had a hard time finding any decent perks outside slowdown and auras. Variety is the spice of life and killers perks are all salt.
Underrated comment, if I ever saw one.
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Unironical: because you are too dangerous to be left alive. You already wasted so much of the killers time, if you now would get away, that would all be doubly wasted, so at least there is hope that you were the teams star player and everyone else is considerably less apt at looping. But yeah, it's mostly a lose/lose situatio for the killer, if it comes to this.
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Give DH a 1.0 to 1.5 uptime compared to the 0.5s now, but it has just two tokens and when they are gone they are gone.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Event offerings that do a thing in an event should be bp offerings outside of the associated event
That's such a good idea!
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They are safely stored away for next years event. Gotta start with a heads up instead of wasting precious event time in the blood Web.
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The full knowledge about gens is the biggest thing. I never played this efficient before, even when I played with friends. LMAO, everyone can now see in realtime my progress and much more accurate like my "I am about 80% done ... I think. The forth piston is moving somewhat.".
Yeah, it was a somewhat needed update, but it always gals me that the follow up to sweeping changes always takes so long. Survivors now don't even need to play sweaty to let you feel the pressure; if they actually do that it feels basically crushingly oppressive and even tunneling might feel like an inadequate answer to certain groups.
Its tough, I have no real solution. Its bad that soloQ have been the punching bag for this game for the longest time, but killer now often feels nearly as bad as before 6.1 ... its slightly better because we got Nowhere to Hide and DH is slightly less obnoxious, but games are now so short that one single mistake, one missed opportunity and slightly too long chase will cost you the game with flying colors.
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This is either bait or some super uninformed rant of someone who didn't even bother to read the killers power entry in game or in the wiki. The Knights facecamping via his guards is super ineffective and just a distraction, because the guard will instantly de-summon when you touch the hooked survivor.
The Knight was super miserable to play before his buff, as everything he did was extremely telegraphed and survivors would just hold W away from any tile set that he plonked down a guard. Now he is at least somewhat fun for assaulting survivor's on gens, but his facecamping game is weak af.
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@ShroudedGhostFace said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336049#Comment_3336049
I get plenty of DCs. I find it hilarious most of the time but I can also get really annoyed if I have multiple matches in a row where survivors DC. Ideally, no survivors DC during the match, and the remaining survivors still have hope of winning against me and play their absolute best. I do want them to be demoralized though, it makes the victory that much sweeter.
Psychopaths exist and walk among us, and if they can get it out of their system this way, more power to them.
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@DBD78 said:
Yes it goes in waves. Killers will be buffed again, then nerfed, then buffed, nerfed, buffed, nerfed, buffed, nerfed etc
More like buffed, nerfed, nerfed, slightly buffed, nerfed, Shadow nerfed, buffed in a fun way, followed by an nearly instantly reverse plus making it worse then ever before, because it was deemed "too unfun to verse". Then nothing happens for a while, till the next new map release sends every killer spiraling into depression.
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Cudos. That is a whole lot of effort for some bait.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335688#Comment_3335688
my very first killer game was against 2000h swf so that's not how it works,
ok how many surv games in a row should i win 50 ? 100 mb?
and then again, if that's the way it works then why didn't I get 15 ez wins in a row after the long breaks for the killer ?
Let's settle for 30.
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@HugTheHag said:
I love the icons, but I do feel like seeing the exact generator progression might be a little overkill.
I know it's necessary to better balance killer and survivor more easily.
I'm just a little worried about the game becoming more sweaty if survivors become more objective-oriented and make killer buffs needed in turn to preserve killrates. If done poorly, it could lead to a situation where survivors have the potential to be very efficient, so killers are buffed on par with this potential (vs actual average level), to a point where you have to be a very good looper to have any chance at survival, which would make it hell for casuals and beginners.
I played a little last week before the gen progression was showed, and the games already felt much better, with the time to do chests or totems without putting the team in danger, but I'd hate for it to go back to immediate post-6.1 where doing side-objectives = throwing the game.
@HugTheHag said:
I love the icons, but I do feel like seeing the exact generator progression might be a little overkill.
I know it's necessary to better balance killer and survivor more easily.
I'm just a little worried about the game becoming more sweaty if survivors become more objective-oriented and make killer buffs needed in turn to preserve killrates. If done poorly, it could lead to a situation where survivors have the potential to be very efficient, so killers are buffed on par with this potential (vs actual average level), to a point where you have to be a very good looper to have any chance at survival, which would make it hell for casuals and beginners.
I played a little last week before the gen progression was showed, and the games already felt much better, with the time to do chests or totems without putting the team in danger, but I'd hate for it to go back to immediate post-6.1 where doing side-objectives = throwing the game.
For real, the icon is easier to read and gives me a more accurate number then eyeballing the gens
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it takes about 90 pips to go from Ash 4 to Iri 1. Here is the new deal: it now takes 120 pips, but you can't depip unless you DC. This means that you need 120 good games in the span of a month, which is indeed just a representation of how much you played and not skill plus so, so, so much luck and RNG involved as we have now. 2 Million BP for regular players ain't breaking the bank, just let me have it.
I for once play like absolute ass when I am close to pipping up, as I have lost all progress because one game where I memed with cute suevivors delayed me. But once I reach Iri1 I can just enjoy the game and be nice or mean to people depending on the way they play. Just imagine if this was ALL MONTH LONG! *mind blown *
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Copy pasta of my most recent post on that matter:
"I never played an hour of WoW in my life, but I remember that my hardcore WoW friends have complained about one thing constantly over the years: that all the skill have been taken out of the game, that nowadays most mechanics are toned down to much, that even total casuals who somehow end up in the game can compete on the non-mythic levels, because the game nowadays basically play itself.
With DBD I is now me who sees the same thing happening. Of course, every basekit change feels cool, because it is essentially giving you free stuff, thus freeing perk slots that can be used for more effective or flashier toys, instead of boring perks like BT etc. The killer in me would welcome a basekit corrupt intervention, because why shouldn't he? Yes, why shouldn't he? Well, if I want corrupt that badly because I think its needed in the early game, there is a very easy fix to that: just equip the damn perk, its right there in every if my killers loadout selection.
All this asking for basekit fixes from everyone is just doing one thing: watering the game down and holding everyones hand, if they want it or not. How often have you seen survivors running BT in the last couple month? I dont know, maybe two times? That was probably a returning player who just didnt know yet. 10s is enough in the vast majority of situations and 20s if BT is seldom needed. The basekit is so strong that the perk is not needed anymore, thus giving everyone +1 perk slot. And while every basekit perk feels cool and exciting if it is for your favorite role, it dumbs and waters down the game a lot.
Some may say that basekit BT was needed, because of the tunneling epidemic, and this might be true to a certain extent, but its also killing variety and is the lazy patch to a much more complicated problem. Its like dealing out medicine aleviate the symptomes while leaving the decease unchecked.
I have said this more then once on this forums, but one of the most healthy perks for the game was the old BBQ. Every killer had is equipped for the blood point bonus, and many killers indeed based their fun and goal of the game around getting a full set of hooking every survivor at least once instead of kills, but each of these killers were shown opportunities and a lot took them, thus peeling them off the gens.
Decoupling the bloodpoints from the BBQ perk was a somewhat healthy choice, as I rejoyced the new build freedom and not having one perk slot constantly be dedicated to BBQ or shooting myself in the foot via BP gains, but the mechanic should have stayed. If I ever advocate for a killer basekit ability, then it would be BBQ: show the killer one random survivors aura that is at least 24m away and give them a sizable speed boost as long as they move in that direction and arent in chase, making the speed boost disappear once they are within 16m or something of that survivor. This way even slowpoke M1 killers could traverse the map and don't feel that leaving the hook would just be to their detriment.
As a second wave I would give every killer the old BBQ mechanic with a new score event. Call it "Entitys Nibble" or "Finger Food", but basically the killer gets something like +7k BP if they hook every survivor once if everyone is still alive. Maaaaaybe do something like grim embrace, too, ie blocking all gens for a short time and maybe even regressing them, when the 4th survivor is hooked while everyone is still alive. This way the killer might want to actually not tunnel one survivor out of the game asap? Tunnelers gonna tunnel, but some killers might actually adapt to a more healthy playstyle this way.
But don't make something basekit "just because" and as a lazy fix, have some plan behind it and do it with a bit of panache."
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I never played an hour of WoW in my life, but I remember that my hardcore WoW friends have complained about one thing constantly over the years: that all the skill have been taken out of the game, that nowadays most mechanics are toned down to much, that even total casuals who somehow end up in the game can compete on the non-mythic levels, because the game nowadays basically play itself.
With DBD I is now me who sees the same thing happening. Of course, every basekit change feels cool, because it is essentially giving you free stuff, thus freeing perk slots that can be used for more effective or flashier toys, instead of boring perks like BT etc. The killer in me would welcome a basekit corrupt intervention, because why shouldn't he? Yes, why shouldn't he? Well, if I want corrupt that badly because I think its needed in the early game, there is a very easy fix to that: just equip the damn perk, its right there in every if my killers loadout selection.
All this asking for basekit fixes from everyone is just doing one thing: watering the game down and holding everyones hand, if they want it or not. How often have you seen survivors running BT in the last couple month? I dont know, maybe two times? That was probably a returning player who just didnt know yet. 10s is enough in the vast majority of situations and 20s if BT is seldom needed. The basekit is so strong that the perk is not needed anymore, thus giving everyone +1 perk slot. And while every basekit perk feels cool and exciting if it is for your favorite role, it dumbs and waters down the game a lot.
Some may say that basekit BT was needed, because of the tunneling epidemic, and this might be true to a certain extent, but its also killing variety and is the lazy patch to a much more complicated problem. Its like dealing out medicine aleviate the symptomes while leaving the decease unchecked.
I have said this more then once on this forums, but one of the most healthy perks for the game was the old BBQ. Every killer had is equipped for the blood point bonus, and many killers indeed based their fun and goal of the game around getting a full set of hooking every survivor at least once instead of kills, but each of these killers were shown opportunities and a lot took them, thus peeling them off the gens.
Decoupling the bloodpoints from the BBQ perk was a somewhat healthy choice, as I rejoyced the new build freedom and not having one perk slot constantly be dedicated to BBQ or shooting myself in the foot via BP gains, but the mechanic should have stayed. If I ever advocate for a killer basekit ability, then it would be BBQ: show the killer one random survivors aura that is at least 24m away and give them a sizable speed boost as long as they move in that direction and arent in chase, making the speed boost disappear once they are within 16m or something of that survivor. This way even slowpoke M1 killers could traverse the map and don't feel that leaving the hook would just be to their detriment.
As a second wave I would give every killer the old BBQ mechanic with a new score event. Call it "Entitys Nibble" or "Finger Food", but basically the killer gets something like +7k BP if they hook every survivor once if everyone is still alive. Maaaaaybe do something like grim embrace, too, ie blocking all gens for a short time and maybe even regressing them, when the 4th survivor is hooked while everyone is still alive. This way the killer might want to actually not tunnel one survivor out of the game asap? Tunnelers gonna tunnel, but some killers might actually adapt to a more healthy playstyle this way.
But don't make something basekit "just because" and as a lazy fix, have some plan behind it and do it with a bit of panache.
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@Sava18 said:
They are doing the best they have ever done. But when the meta update released they said they would monitor and change it up often. It's been 7 months now and there is no reason no real balance changes have been made to the game.
BHVR should adapt what most arena mmo's are doing: identify the 5 most popular perks on both side and nerf them by mostly tweaking the numbers and buff the 5 least played perks. Monitor for gross gamebreaking stuff, but otherwise let everything stick. Rinse and repeat every month, while ignoring last month changed perks in the process which perks to buff/nerf next.
Then you get a fluid and changing meta with the player base constantly evaluating what's strong now and finding new and interesting ways to use what they got.
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Just one thing: DH and Eruption are both having the game in its stranglehold and are sucking the fun out of the game in big, rasping gulps.
Both roles can offer phenomenlly good plays and fun chases without these perks, but they are clutches for mediocre players and elevate skilled players to incredible heights, making them oppressive in unfun ways.
Nuking this two perks would increase the fun and excitement of both roles approximately 10x, if not 11x or eben 12x; its true, I have done the math and it's just as I said.
Yes, there will always be "the next thing to complain about", but this two are so transformative in a bad way for the game, that their nerf should be a no-brainer.
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Yawn...
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330149#Comment_3330149
Probably not. I still see people using Self Care to heal for over 40 seconds (or even more against Sloppy Butcher). So there will always be Survivors who will bring CoH and do nothing but blessing the Totem.
@Topic:
I dont think that Circle of Healing is that good to be honest. Because often enough I see Survivors reblessing their Totem just to change location, probably because blessing gives quite a lot of BPs. But most of the time I feel that the time spent on a Boon is better spent on a Gen. And there have been more than one occasion where I was on Death Hook, got chased with 1 Gen to go and instead of doing a Gen, one of my healthy teammates set up a Boon...
Furthermore, depending on how much they nerf CoH (again), they might as well call Boons a failed concept. We have 4 Boons so far, only one of them has actually been good (even tho, Shadowstep is not that bad, but Exponential and Dark Theory are shockingly bad). If they nerf that one Boon too much, we have a whole bunch of Perks which are not worth taking at all and then they could have just saved the time working on them. (I know that someone will compare them with Hexes, but at least Ruin got to be around for multiple years and being good, while CoH is nerfed quite a lot for its relatively short existence)
But maybe the only nerf happening to it is that it does not work on multiple floors, which would be a fair nerf.
I think that they need to step away from "one boon concept fits all" and expand on the idea. The boon with a circle of effect works wounderfully for CoH and Shadowstep, but falls totally flat for the other two.
I played Dark Theory for quite a while, because I saw potential. 2% sounds laughable, but imagine that every time you juuuust barely got it while vaulting away, you might have let the killer whiffed with this 2% speed bost. But because its tied to one location, its bascially useless.
How about this: when you set up a Boon: Dark Theory the boon lights up in green, indicating that its a different kind of boon. Every survivor who interacts with the boon for x seconds will get its bonus wherever they go, map wide, so its sort of a blessing station for the survivors. Maybe Dark Theories boon could only sustain 2 buffed survivor and if a third one uses it the effect will fizzle out for the first blessed survivor. Or its effect is up for a limited time, like 2min, incentivising survivors to factor in a trip to the totem between gens.
Exponential should probably only work for a single survivor, but its a big bonus to just recover from being slugged.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330159#Comment_3330159
How about : just let the killer break bones by interacting with the boon. Then any boon can only be used at most 5 times before there are no bones left.
And then change Noed so that it can trigger from broken bones - not that anyone is still using it.
Dude! I am all for making Hexes more viable and offered some pretty good ideas of how to do so in the past ... but you can't have the cake AND eat it. You gotta chose, doing bones has been the solution to NOED since Hexes were introduced into the game with the Hag and it has been thrown so much at survivors that it became a meme in itself. We can't change this. Impossiburu.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331502#Comment_3331502
The impact of Voice Communication is much smaller than Killer Mains like to pretend.
Which is why we should see after the match who was in a SWF with whom. We would see that most SWFs don't play any better then other random groups and that a lot even take extra risks due to altruism for their friends. But it would also help with the killers after care after a brutal stomp if they could at least take solace in the fact that they got stomped by a 4 man SWFs that was probably well coordinated.... or take some extra heap of salt when all four were soloQs :)
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@HugTechLover said:
How about you go around and cleanse all the totems. Boom, no noed.
Old school Chad survivor. The young uns will never understand.
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@ShyPirate said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3331741#Comment_3331741
I think they mean that if you were to buy a flashlight in Dwight's bloodweb, you would be able to switch to Meg and equip it on her.
Ah, I see. Well, yeah, I guess. On the other hand this would even more diminish the individual survivors identity and relegate them to mere skins of the one survivor role.
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Please elaborate further, as I never played the mobile game. When one survivor plays a flashlight, everyone gets a flashlight?
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This is a cute one. ITs like asking to remove the bright light effect when getting blinded as the killer, because you can't keep track of the survivors and lose them quite often. Its the point of this kind of effects to confuse and let you make suboptimal plays, because your character is in a dire state. Its not fun, but at least your timer isn't decreasing like back in the days when Legion could hunt you till you dropped dead :)
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The fun thing with Blights is that they have quite the problem when you shift W away from them through open fields where they get nothing to bounce off to extend their rushes and hit you with a Lethal one. It's actually quite amusing to see them lose all velocity and slither behind you in a slug like manner till they finally stop after an excruciatingly long, but painfully slow, slide. So cathartic.
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Tbh, I was a very big fan of the old PainRes; it entered the scene when killer gameplay was at its absolute low point and survivor's were at their peak power, and PainRes singlehandedly saved the game for me.
This perk gave me the on-the-fly gen regression that I needed and created enough breathing room for me to have somewhat of a fighting chance. Also the Gen explosion gave me a clear new target and set a course of action. I feel that this was the perks best and most fun iteration, but it was either considered overtuned, "no fun to face" or just played too much.
Then they took away the explosion and I really hated it at first. When I now hooked someone I was left puzzled and confused: did it work? Did something happen? Or was there just some energy send into the void? What should I cook tonight? And instead of a clear new target I just stood there, dumbfounded and sorta camped and hook traded.
Yeah, the PainRes+DMS combo was strong, but was it that bad? I don't know, but good things seldom last long, it seems and at least I understood the reasoning behind this.
When they reintroduced the screaming into the mix I at least knew that it was working, but the screams are so unidirectional that they really don't offer any information to me at all. But more important, it now worked together with DMS again. And this confused me to no end. Every nerf to this perk seemed somewhat arbitrary and following no clear concept, as if they just played it by ear until they were somewhat okay with the sound they got, even though it wasn't harmonic in itself.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Are we STILL complaining about Circle of Healing?
It could be that there is something fundamentally wrong with the concept of that perk, so that number tweaks will never adequately reign in its power unless they overshoot and nerf it completely.
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@I_CAME said:
The difference between eruption and dead hard is that survivors will be fine when dead hard gets nerfed. The survivors who are good enough to hit perfect dead hards will still destroy with sprint burst. I predict that people will immediately start crying about the other exhaustion perks once dead hard gets nerfed. Some killers on the other hand are awful and get hard carried by eruption. People know they're going to get exposed when it gets nerfed. It's like the below average survivors crying about losing old dead hard all over again. I can only speak from my experience but there are far more people who crutch on eruption than dead hard. Dead Hard at least requires some degree of skill to pull off consistently. Compare that to a brain dead perk where you kick gens for 30 minutes until all the resources on the map are gone.
The Sprint Burst/Lithe thing has been predicted hundreds, if not thousands of times in the pre-patch 6.1 circus, but it never came to fruition. For a short time in history, we enjoyed a time were there was a colorful mixed bag of exhaustion perks and everything was seen in game. People went wild with all kinda builds and it was an exciting and fun time.
Sure, intelligent usage of Sprint Burst can be pretty annoying, but it's nowhere in the same heartsinking, confidence destroying and fun-sucking ballpark that is DHs favorite hunt. SB and Lithe happen at the start of a chase or even before one happens and the killer can decide if its worth their time to commit or look somewhere else, whereas DH literally happens in the 14 frames before your triumph after a long and arduous chase, taking it all away.
There will always be singular peeps who get so destroyed be SB that they come crying, but that's just whiny loosers tat you always have on both sides. But if you honestly think that a so-called Sprint Burst meta could be anything 1/4 as obnoxious as DH, then you need a reality check.
An intelligent use of Sprint Burst is just irritating, while an honest to God 99ed Sprint Burst mid-chase gives you pause and grudgingly respect that survivor. Compare that to mindlessly looping a piece of junk 3 times, just to press E and do it all again or move away. Riviting gameplay and the hight of tactical acumen, right?
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@C3Tooth said:
I drew this yesterday, fit your story.
This one is so on point :D
That aside, it takes about 90 pips to go from Ash 4 to Iri 1. Here is the new deal: it now takes 120 pips, but you can't depip unless you DC. This means that you need 120 good games in the span of a month, which is indeed just a representation of how much you played and not skill plus so, so, so much luck and RNG involved as we have now. 2 Million BP for regular players ain't breaking the bank, just let me have it.
I for once play like absolute ass when I am close to pipping up, as I have lost all progress because one game where I memed with cute suevivors delayed me. But once I reach Iri1 I can just enjoy the game and be nice or mean to people depending on the way they play. Just imagine if this was ALL MONTH LONG! *mind blown *
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I have the firm belief that showing who played with whom afterwards would be much to the games benefit.
We would know that the super tough matches were probably so tough because they were in a 3 or 4 man SWF, and we would also see that many of the fun or casually easy matches were also against SWFs, proofing that just as many are potatoes or fooling around. In the end most killers would see that they aren'tagainst seal teams every other match and that most SWFs aren't too dangerous. But it also mends hurt egos. Win win.
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@FengShuiExe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330717#Comment_3330717
He can be in some maps, but I at least can have fun playing scratched mirror on indoor maps.
Corn field maps, though....
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@Xendritch said:
I feel like is arguing against rebalancing more people having a problem with eruption. Which like every live service Multiplayer game buff and nerf things all the time so this thread makes no sense lol.
BHVR should adapt what most arena mmo's are doing: identify the 5 most popular perks on both side and nerf them by mostly tweaking the numbers and buff the 5 least played perks. Monitor for gross gamebreaking stuff, but otherwise let everything stick. Rinse and repeat every month, while ignoring last month changed perks in the process which perks to buff/nerf next.
Then you get a fluid and changing meta with the player base constantly evaluating what's strong now and finding new and interesting ways to use what they got.
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@Ithiria said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3330641#Comment_3330641
twins nerf
if anything incapacitated needs a buff to force survivors to get rid of victor, with eruption losing the effect
True that. Victor clawing at your back should auto down you in 30s unless you sit down and do some Doctor insanity style skill checks, auto down gets disabled if you are in chase with Charlotte. There, easy fix and it gives Twins some slowdown. Maybe also have an idle Victor slowly drag a downed survivor to the next hook 🪝 before where he will then assume his Killer Instinct watch and survivor's can kick him off a dragged mate.
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DH and Eruption are the two perks right now that have such a strong meta, that they singlehandedly decide how games are played and they have the greater game in their stranglehold. DH did so for quite some time now and after some grace period right after 6.1 were killers could just be killers and swing when they cornered a survivor or caught them in the open we are basically back to were we startrd. Now, with a lot of survivor adapting and learned how to use the new DH, it's once again necessary that you have to second guess every single swing until you know that a survivor is running something else or are in the deep wound state.
It's true that the new DH is much fairer then the old one and that you can now effectively bait it out most of the time, but it's still wasting time every single chase and it feels just obnoxious to be forced to do so. And there are still lots of lose/lose situations for the killer, that just feel awful. By now I can predict pretty well when a survivor will DH in front of a palette, but the window to hit them afterwards is soooo fricking small that it's actually more to your detriment to try to go for it then to just eating the DH and applying mending. FR, I have pulled this off successfully a scant 3 times by now, but have many times predicted the DH correctly and still gotten hit by the palette ... this time without deep wounding the survivor and them just using a palette. This is really awful and quite comparable to the way survivors feel about the uncounterable status of an Eruption primed gen. Do they waste time off that gen and be waiting for a down that might never come or stay at the gen and risk looking at it for 25s? Fun for everyone.
I have a few ideas of how to nerf DH even further, without it being too strong. For one, we could not make it an exhaustion perk, but give it tokens. DH could have a much more generous activation period of 1s or even 1.5s, but once used up its token is gone, a bit like Unbreakable. It gives you this one or two strong plays per game, but you have to make them count and can't use it in every chase or to greed EVERY. SINGLE. WEAK. PALETTE. TO. ITS. ABSOLUTE. MAX. .... sorry, I needed to get that "skill issue of mine" out of the system. I would argue for two tokens, one would be too weak, 3 still oppressive enough that you could use it very much like now. 2 seems to be the sweet spot.
Heck, I would even be fine with a token-based DH to stack with SB or Lithe, if I knew that it was gone afterwards and can't hurt me further, DH has such a strong grip on this game, again .
Just some ideas to get a conversation starting on how to get the other exhaustion perks up on par if DH gets nerfed.
Lithe: press E. This uses up the perks charge, gives you the effect on the next fast vault you do within 10s and starts the exhaustion timer once you vaulted.
Sprint Burst: press E while walking in order to conserve power for 45s. In this time frame SB won't activate, if you want to or not.
Balanced Landing: as is. You also have 3 tokens that recharge while inside the killers TR. When exhausted you use up 1 token when you jump down a great hight to reduce the stun by 35%.
Smash Hit: on top of the effects also blind the killer and play the hook of The Tricksters greatest hit. If you have Alternatively, if you have Any Means Necessary the palette bounces back to standing the first time you successfully smack the killer.
Head On: hide scratch marks and foot steps for 3s on a successful hit.
Overcome: tbh this is good for what it is. Bonus: even when running away in a straight line the character model constantly t-bags the killer
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What if ... CoH actually autoheals you over let's say 35s in its vicinity, no healing action needed, but it's only good for 2/3/4 heals and then breaks the totem? It would allow for a quicker playstyle, but also limit its application.
On the same notion, here is my reworked Dark Theory: you boon a totem, but it turns green, not purple. Survivors can now interact with the boon and gain the effect everywhere they go, not just in a circle around the boon, but if the killer kicks it it's broken for good. A single Dark Theory Boon an be used by 1/2/3 survivors at the same time.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329172#Comment_3329172
Exactly!
I often use non meta perks. Because the others don´t expect it.
We have great perks with good value. But because famous streamers don´t use them. People consider them crap.
Right after the meta shakeup, there was a great time where everything was possible. Everyday streamers tried new crazy builds and people tested them. It was wild and fresh and exactly what this game needs. Not the same 5 perks that come every match. Real variation.
Oh that really was the best time, no questions asked. You saw all kinda perks, everything was wild and new and fun and crazy .... and if you cornered a survivor or got to them in tje open ... you could just swing. No second guessing. No baiting it out. No questioning your lifes decisions. No indecisions. No "if you outplayed them, but they DH to safety, did you really outplay them, anon? *smirk* "Just swing and down. Ahhhh ... but of course, it wouldn't last.
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328825#Comment_3328825
Well i can say the same for Eruption then, i'd rather bring other slowdown but they are awful so..
Or be me, play Pyramid Head with IamAllEars/LethalPursuer/AwakenedAwareness/NowhereToHide and mercilessly ferret them out and hunt them down before they can get all their gens done. This is gen slowdown the fun way. The Chad Killer way.
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DH and Eruption are the two perks right now that have such a strong meta, that they singlehandedly decide how games are played and they have the greater game in their stranglehold. DH did so for quite some time now and after some grace period right after 6.1 were killers could just be killers and swing when they cornered a survivor or caught them in the open we are basically back to were we startrd. Now, with a lot of survivor adapting and learned how to use the new DH, it's once again necessary that you have to second guess every single swing until you know that a survivor is running something else or are in the deep wound state.
It's true that the new DH is much fairer then the old one and that you can now effectively bait it out most of the time, but it's still wasting time every single chase and it feels just obnoxious to be forced to do so. And there are still lots of lose/lose situations for the killer, that just feel awful. By now I can predict pretty well when a survivor will DH in front of a palette, but the window to hit them afterwards is soooo fricking small that it's actually more to your detriment to try to go for it then to just eating the DH and applying mending. FR, I have pulled this off successfully a scant 3 times by now, but have many times predicted the DH correctly and still gotten hit by the palette ... this time without deep wounding the survivor and them just using a palette. This is really awful and quite comparable to the way survivors feel about the uncounterable status of an Eruption primed gen. Do they waste time off that gen and be waiting for a down that might never come or stay at the gen and risk looking at it for 25s? Fun for everyone.
I have a few ideas of how to nerf DH even further, without it being too strong. For one, we could not make it an exhaustion perk, but give it tokens. DH could have a much more generous activation period of 1s or even 1.5s, but once used up its token is gone, a bit like Unbreakable. It gives you this one or two strong plays per game, but you have to make them count and can't use it in every chase or to greed EVERY. SINGLE. WEAK. PALETTE. TO. ITS. ABSOLUTE. MAX. .... sorry, I needed to get that "skill issue of mine" out of the system. I would argue for two tokens, one would be too weak, 3 still oppressive enough that you could use it very much like now. 2 seems to be the sweet spot.
Heck, I would even be fine with a token-based DH to stack with SB or Lithe, if I knew that it was gone afterwards and can't hurt me further.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328822#Comment_3328822
So if something isn´t OP its crap. Got it.
This is the sentiment that I hate the most. I get it that people love their meta perks/loadouts, because they boost their success rates the most, but playing just meta often leads to quite the warped perspective on everything else.
Most meta perks are useful in all situations, so perks that are useful or fun or even both, but situational are already sidelined into the "basically useless"-category, just because you might not get max value each game or even *shudder* no value at all at sometimes.
Meta shapes the game, but a lot of you guys and gals might be surprises how fun the occasional silly buid can be, especially if the useless perks get a chance to shine and you suddenly get a new set of abilities that you never knew were possible.
One of my favorite killer perks is Spies in the Shadow. People laugh at this perk and yes, it got its issues. But it saved my butt more times then I can count, especially because it isn't meta and people don't expect it to be in play.
And as a bonus I am quite 100% confident that exactly Zero survivors got away from me, because they played Calm Spirit and naturally countered it.