Adjatha
Adjatha
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451284#Comment_2451284
Yeah with a million people screaming about changes a couple of them will stick. This post was about survivor base perks, its a whole separate discussion about killer base perks. Honestly, I don't feel like any killer perks need to be base, just their actually stats changed like better gen kicking percentages and regressing. Just because you hate survivors or think it is unfair doesn't mean we should start sabotaging the game. Never did I say "KILLERS DESERVE NOTHING KEEP BUFFING SURVIVOR" I was stating a good change that would be healthy to the game. Base killer changes need to happen too, but that was not the point of the discussion. Those changes you discussed were made for a reason because they were either abusable or unhealthy with the game. Stop with all the whataboutism and if you actually care about the game then care about the game and not just how much your side can ruin it for the other
I agree that killers should be incentivized to take out the person doing the unhooking, rather than the person who's just been hooked. This is the intent of the perk, and on a base level, I agree with this premise.
To be clear: Tunneling one person out of the game (the weakest person on the survivor team, ideally) is the fastest way to slow generator speed to a manageable level. 4 people on generators is generally only possible if the killer is AFK, so generally speaking, you've got 1 in chase (or hiding and distracting the killer) and 3 on gens. If you down and hook somebody, one person has to break off to unhook, that that drops it to 2. If you've taken out one person, then each hook takes it down to 1 person on a generator, which is far slower and gives the killer a chance to catch up from the 2-3 gen pops 90 seconds after the game starts.
What both sides need is a reason why the killer should go after the full health person who unhooked instead of the half-health person who's just been unhooked. Borrowed Time does not do this.
What Borrowed Time does, effectively, is discourage the killer from going after the recently hooked person for 10 seconds, which gives them loads of time to get to the nearest strong loop. Chasing after the healthy survivor MIGHT get you an early hit, but they will definitely reach a loop anyway, so you're no better off than just counting to 10 and trying to down the other guy. Because there's no penalty for having Borrowed Time put on you, (and a completely insignificant mend state if you bait the killer to actually hitting you), if you don't get chased, you're just going to jump on a gen or med-kit yourself to full right off the bat and the gen rush continues as before.
Additionally, survivors have 3 hooks on their belts, and all survivors can see how close everybody is to death, so the one doing the unhooking probably isn't somebody very near to going out. Killers can get 8 hook and still never kill a survivor, which means those gens just keep flying exactly as fast as they were at the start of the game.
So, what COULD encourage a killer to go after the person unhooking instead of being unhooked? Maybe if the one that got unhooked had a huge speed buff and the one unhooking had a speed penalty, the obvious choice would be for the killer to go after the new person instead. But that's a give-and-take mechanic, not a flat buff. And it sounds like you're just fishing for free Borrowed Time (and free Kindred, I note, rereading the initial post).
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@Ssajbambusa said:
@Adjatha Oh I think I misphrased it. I meant to apply both MS to basement hooks AND 4 other random hooks (like Scourge Hook perks do).
Oh. I see. I mean, that kind of goes against the "make the basement super deadly," which is what the perk is supposed to do. Frankly, I think ALL scourge hook perks should ALSO affect the basement.
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Devs have already said they're not going to increase the time it takes to do gens. They nerfed Freddy's best AddOns specifically to that end.
I do like having all totems be something, and agree that it'd be nice to have something like what you're suggesting, but it ain't gonna happen.
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Basement being all scourge hooks seems like a good change for Monstrous Shrine. It's way harder to get them there than typical scourge hooks (unless you're specifically running a basement build and the survivors are oblivious), so the scourge effect would have to be REALLY good.
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Oh it's unfair alright. But the Devs encourage SWF teams on comms, so clearly there's no real expectation of a self-contained game that is balanced around what all players have access too. Third-party advantages have official sanction, so everything's fair game.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451241#Comment_2451241
I am aware that killing a survivor is the strongest thing to win the game and make it easy mode. Making BT as a base would be an incredibly easy, and non-abusable way to help with the camping problem, as well as allowing more creativity in survivor builds. Putting a survivor on time out for ONE MINUTE for just being unhooked is insane and makes me understand the devs never listening to the community.
"Survivors should get a free perk by default!"
Okay, how about "Killers should get BBQ by default." Or "Killers should get Corrupt Intervention by default." Or "Killers should get Sloppy Butcher by default." Or a zillion other suggestions.
And you SAY devs never listen to the community, but Moris got nerfed into uselessness by survivor whining. Hillbilly, Pyramid Head, Freddy, and others got huge nerfs for the sake of survivor whining. Survivors got a per-person hook counter for free for survivor whining. Survivors got an always-on Obsession marker to make the killer think somebody's got Decisive Strike for free, due to survivor whining. Survivor tracking perks trump killer stealth already and more keep getting added to that list with the Iron Will buff. I mean heck, Borrowed Time used to not work vs. stealth killers or unique terror radiuses like Freddy, and THAT got buffed to always function too.
So who knows what's next. Enough survivors whining and they'll end up with 8 perks each.
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Survivors don't have a reasonable fear of killers. Many of them feel that 1 survivor should be able to outrun and outmaneuver a killer for the entirety of a match, and all too often at mid-to-high ranks, that's exactly what happens. The "lay low, hide, sneak, and steath" skill set is virtually non-existent, because brazen looping is so absurdly strong against the vast majority of killers. These guys have the impression that they should be able to unhook in your face and still get away scot free.
And then, when they bomb-dive the hook one second after you've finished hooking the other person, they whine about camping. Like, if you're running right at the hook and haven't given the killer even 3 seconds to walk away, that's not camping. That's you being a really bad team mate.
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I'd be fine with unhooked survivors being completely immune to damage and collisions, if they were ALSO unable to work on gens or heal themselves or others for, like, a minute. Other people could heal them, but no self-caring while you're invulnerable.
Like it or not, going after the same guy is the only non-perk way to stop gen progress with any reliability. The speed of 4 survivors on gens is completely untenable for mid to late game and there's no default way to break that up other than trying to drop the players down to 3.
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@AtariSBetter91 said:
Ok I was just chased for I kid you not 4.5 gens! He wound up getting someone else at the end and just face camped them. My understanding is you get points for being in chase and gens being completed. So why did I still get a silver in light bringer? I find this wrong and I didn't depipp but still come on. Best chase I've had in a long time on lerys btw and I've always been trash at looping that map.
As hard to believe as it might be: there actually are things you're supposed to be doing in this game other than distracting the killer for 99% of a match. The fact that he didn't get hits/hooks means no altruism. The fact that you kept him busy the whole game but never touched a gen means no Lightbringer. There are already two of the four survivor categories just for running good (Evader and Unbroken).
The game is supposed to be a give and take between killers hooking survivors and survivors rescuing them. If you're untouchable, you've eliminated that entire part of the game (and you're probably going against players well below your own skill level).
A more reasonable complaint would be "why is one survivor able to evade a killer for 4.5 generators but there are 4 survivors?" At that point, you could've had a 2-man team and still won the match.
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Pyramid Head's power is so short, so narrow, so slow, so loud, so unmaneuverable, and so broadcast to the survivor to give them all the warnings they could ever want, that it has 0 use anywhere in the entire game OTHER than at fixed point positions like vaults and pallets.
Additionally, there is a CONSIDERABLE start-up, and virtually zero ability to tweak the left-right aiming once the blade is down, so that you must perfectly position it well before the survivor reaches the narrow point or they'll get over and have the time they need to go left or right and get out of zone of attack
Additionally, as you said, they nerfed him (exactly for people complaining then as you are complaining now) so that picking his blade up without swinging slows you and locks you out of attacking for the exact same duration as putting the blade down, giving survivors twice as long moving to run 20+% faster than the killer and get away from the huge, obvious red beam.
Additionally, if you DO swing and you're off-center, slightly too slow or fast, hindered by latency, or the survivor faked you out, the recovery time is nearly as long as Sprint Burst (twice as long as a missed M1 attack) and slows you to immobile, giving the survivor ample opportunity to get to the next loop, every time.
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So, in conclusion, his power is bad and absurdly limited. If you are honestly suggesting that the ONE part of the game that he CAN use his power on is somehow "unfair" to survivors, I don't know what to tell you. His torment trails are useless, his cages are a joke, and his offensive power is the most niche, limited 'ranged' attack out there. Other than walking around and hitting M1, what exactly is he SUPPOSED to do?
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It's definitely Pyramid Head's Obsidian Goblet. An Iridescent that gives you Undetectable while standing on torment trails (except when actually MAKING the torment trails or stepping off them for even a fraction of a second, without increasing the amount you can place, the amount of time they stay in the environment, or how quickly your torment meter recharges, AND does nothing to mute the noisy-as-hell sound of his sword and walking or do anything about just how tall and obvious he is)? TOTALLY broken!
Ha hah, I kid. All of Pyramid Head's addons are trash. He has the worst selection in the entire game. And they'll never be fixed because he's the most over-hyped killer by survivors who have never actually tried playing as him.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
I hit rank 12 again after not playing for like 2 year and ever since its been a minimum of 2 red or purple ranks and 2 greens but alot of 3 red and purple and like a yellow. So I started paying attention and outnof the last 20 it been 15 matches like this where at least half the team is way out of my skill level and I never see the lower level ones because there super immersed. I keep playing like the next cant be like that but it is I even do pip into yellow and I'm still getting the same matches. Its not even fun when half the team is way above your skill and get blown out make no BP which makes the grind even more insane. It just stops becoming fun
I get the exact same match making. The second I hit green ranks, it's 1-3 red rank survivors in every game. I guess there just aren't enough red rank killers for the overflow, so they get shunted from platinum to silver.
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I hate survivors all standing in the exit gates, refusing to leave until you show up just so they can teabag at you.
That's part of game balance, is it?
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
Yeah, I feel like there were a few more colors you could have picked here.
Yeah, this is very difficult to parse. I'm uncertain why you used such similar hues. You even have two whole categories devoted to blues.
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It'd be nice if it was something like double totems: 15-30 seconds to unlock (doesn't drain charges, but can't be used at zero charges), killer gets a Killer Instinct warning when it's being unlocked, and if you stop unlocking progress is reset. If they're far enough away, they won't make it on time. But no more stealth escaping or just popping it open mid-chase and jumping through.
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A lot of people will say Pyramid Head is a strong killer. This is greatly misleading. He is an M1 killer, almost exclusively. His power is ONLY useful at pallets and windows. The slowdown, delay, warning noise, warning light, inability to shift it even moderately to the left or right, and the TREMENDOUS wait time between using it and regaining control of your character is so overwhelmingly punishing that even slightly skilled survivors will evade and escape any chase you attempt to use it and miss. It is also the second shortest 'ranged' attack, and the actual slowest to hit the furthest point.
What Pyramid Head IS good at is hitting survivors who get into animation locks (throwing a pallet, vaulting a window). However, there is a significant delay between when you plant the sword and when you can use it which, along with the auditory/visual warning survivors get, and the extremely limited turning ability means that you must approach every spot at the precise correct angle or you'll miss. Additionally, if they know you're going for it, they can just not drop/vault and you waste time picking the sword back out of the ground. This window of usefulness is very difficult to pick up. Not as hard as learning Nurse, certainly, but you'll find yourself just hitting with M1 for 90% of your damage output.
His other ability, the Torment Trails, is absolutely awful. It has two reliable uses: disposing of a survivor without wasting time carrying them to the hook, and killing a survivor without losing a permanent hook. All the other applications are entirely contingent on the players. Did they run Borrowed Time / Decisive Strike / flashlights / whatever perk? Well, congrats, you negated it. However, it locks you out of some really good killer perks too, and that's 100% assured. Additionally, putting down trails takes an unreasonable amount of time, they last for a very short amount of time, they can't be placed anywhere you'd want to put them, survivors can 100% avoid them by just stealthing through, the tracking from having them set off is completely useless, and every person you cage effectively removes 2 instances of Torment from the survivor team. It is BAD. Just plain, flat-out bad.
And, finally, Pyramid Head has the worst addons of any killer in the entire game. All of his purple and iridescent addons are useless. They have literally no use. The only three that do anything of note are the brown, yellow, and green ones that extend the range of his shockwave. So, you're basically playing a killer with no addon support. And, what's worst, there are so many people who will SAY "oh Pyramid Head is the top tier! Just below Nurse and Spirit!" that the addons and torment trails will never be fixed, changed, buffed, or reworked in any way. So, you're in a mud pit for good.
So, is it work it to learn him? Ehhhhh. The character of Pyramid Head is great. I love him. He's why I bought the game. But his kit is mostly useless, and his actual killer power is wildly over-stated with how good it is. It certainly has SOME use, and players CAN get good enough with it to shut down loops some of the time, but he's the most over-hyped killer out there. He's soundly middle-tier. He mostly just walks around and swings his sword. If you're playing bad players, maybe you'll get a chance to use a cage or two and avoid Decisive Strike, but that's pretty much it.
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There are few things more enjoyable in this game that running lightborne against a team with 3-4 flashlights and scoring hits, downs, and kills because they're so greedy enough to keep trying, even after failing a half dozen times.
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You could go P H for Pyramid head and PH for Pinhead. Or PH and Ph. Or /\ and ().
I like the last one, personally.
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Candyman's theoretical kit wouldn't be all that different from Pinhead's.
- Replace the lament configuration with a mirror
- Replace chains with bee swarms
- Replace portal-hook with hand-hook
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Kicking a gen should do 5% damage and regress at the same exact rate that survivors fix gens (instead of 1/4th the rate they're repaired at).
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If the balance goal is "killers get 2 kills in a match," then the goal should also be "survivors have a 50/50 chance of escaping each match.
If you're escaping more than every other match, the game is not working correctly. And survivors who expect to escape more than every other match are the problem.
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The Cenobites are not the villains of Hellraiser 1 and 2. That honor belongs to Uncle Frank and Leviathan.
The Cenobites only come when you call for them.
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Your skill checks should get harder the higher your rank is. It's pretty silly that the primary gameplay mechanic for survivors is exactly as hard at all skill levels, making it a challenge for newbies and completely trivial for pros.
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You want a unique power that uses hooks and isn't just a Deathslinger rip-off?
-How about every time a survivor inside his terror radius vaults or drops a pallet, they get a "hook" that reduces their movement speed by 1-2% and provokes a scream. You can loop him for a little while, but trying to stay at one loop gets you slowed down to an easy kill speed.
-Or: a CD power that summons a Pillar of Souls at a distance, which obstructs movement and - when it starts rotating - damages survivors who run into it, letting him shut down tight corridors or box in movement.
-Or: he can lock down Generators with a Lament Configuration for several minutes, which requires survivors to perform a series of very difficult, Doctor-style randomized skill checks to unlock.
-Or: he has an alternate weapon-swing which, if it hits an injured survivor, drags them to a hell dimension for a protracted period, removing them from the game for 30 seconds or so, swapping them to Spectator mode, and applying one hook state before spiting them back out at a randomized spawn point.
-Or: reflecting the cenobite duality of pain and pleasure, downed/hooked survivors do not scream or give other survivor bubble alerts; and likewise, any survivor who is healed, screams and reveals their aura to the killer for an extended period of time.
-Or: he has the ability to swap places with any injured survivor, letting him stop a loop or travel quickly to attack other survivors who are working with the teleport target.
Lotta different ways you could work the various, nebulous skill sets the Cenobites have. (But let's not kid ourselves, it's just going to be a Deathslinger rip-off)
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Yes, there should. I don't care about longer queue times, I'd like something other than perpetual Gen Sim (where some low tier killers might actually stand a chance).
As for what, I posted a thread with some concepts: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/270066/alternate-game-modes
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2430722#Comment_2430722
Yeah if you're just interesting in skins then this chapter was pretty good. Oh to be so easily pleased. I envy them.
Considering skins make them All of the money, you'd really think they would've had some alt villain legendary skins for Nemesis. The Tyrant model has been a through-line for almost all the RE games. RE2's Mr. X is the most obvious, but there's also the classic RE1 Tyrant, RE2's Berkin, RE4's Chief Mendez, RE6's Ustanak, RE7's Jack Baker, and even RE8's Lady Dimitrescu (first form). So many options to pick from, and Nemmy got nothing (on top of his wildly under-tuned, uninspired power).
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The closest approximation to their movie-presence would be a mix of Hag's teleport (manifesting anywhere there's a Lament Configuration) and Deathslinger's gun (throwing out hooked chains to bind survivors in place).
I would think the Lament Configuration (the puzzle box) would be somewhere in there. Maybe you have to solve it to temporarily make yourself immune to his powers (like Freddy), or the box's daemonic need to be solved forces survivors who pass near one to stop and make a series of skill checks before they can keep moving (like a mix of Trapper's traps and Pig's Reverse Bear Trap)
It would be nice to NOT get another ranged killer after PH's shockwave, Victor's pounce, Tricker's blades, and Nemesis' tentacle, but the hooked chains SEEM to imply some ranged element. Perhaps the chains just get summoned mid-chase and each one puts a stacking Hindered status on the survivor (like Clown) and after enough, the survivor is frozen in place?
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Neither. I prefer powers that are FUN to use and do not punish you for trying to use them.
Static shocking a zone with no survivors? That's okay. You can keep on keeping on. Dropping a dream snare and the survivor goes the other way instead? That's okay (though they actively made this LESS okay but slowing down Freddy and limiting his snares for some dumb-ass reason). Get a little too close while stalking and the survivors run away? That's okay, you can stalk 'em on the run.
Versus
Aim a little too far to the right with PH shockwave? Whoops, they just got the benefit of a free Sprint Burst and this chase is going to take another 30 seconds minimum. Do you know the exact distance to hold the button to blink past that pallet/rock/garbage? If not, they're getting away and you get to enjoy total darkness stuns and probable lose the chase completely. Do you have a super intense, surround sound set-up that tells you precisely where all noise is coming from? If not, Spirit's sound-tracking requirement is going to be impossible and you're just going to have to rely on Tinkerer to try to get phase hits.
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Where's the option for "All Of Them"?
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I'll say this much: since the hit boxes on Plague's puke works like Tricker's blades, I wish it was visually represented as chunks, like his knives, instead of a stream. There is nothing worse about playing Plague, puking all over somebody, and they walk away as fresh as a daisy because none of the invisible "infection chunks" managed to touch the player's hitbox.
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It seems pretty likely that Nemesis' original power was building up Infection to create more zombies. My reasoning is as follows:
- His Ritual requires reaching rank 3 four times, which cannot be done in a single game, unlike every other ritual in the game. This suggests originally you could reach rank 3 and it would reset to 1 or 2 during play, instead of capping out.
- Half or more of his addons specifically and only effect the zombies. With two zombies (which can be destroyed by Nemesis and survivors alike), it really doesn't make much sense for THAT MUCH attention to be paid to such a tiny force.
- It takes 6 contamination points (infecting two survivors) to rank up to level 2, which provides an incredibly powerful boost. It takes FIFTEEN contamination points to give your tentacle +1 m range (still the shortest "ranged" attack in the game). The wide disparity between these seems to suggest that reaching T3 used to give you a powerful boost (and reset your contamination level)
- RCPD is, by a wide margin, the largest map in the game. It is a nightmare for a killer to try to patrol all over that place and desperately needs some killer feature to spook and chase away survivors in multiple places.
- Devs specifically stated that they TRIED having more than 2 zombies on a map at once, but it tanked performance (even more than having only 2 did) so it was an impossibility using their current code.
- Resident Evil is (at its surface level) about zombie apocalypse-level events. Two slow walkers ambling around hardly counts as an apocalypse.
So, if you accept the premise, then the RE Chapter WAS a disappointment. Making a bunch of zombies would've been a tremendously unique killer. As stands, the two zombies either have some effect on the very, very small stages, or zero effect on the medium-to-large stages. They're more an after-thought than anything else, and considering how buggy they turned out to be, that's hardly a surprise.
Personally, I would've preferred they spent more time getting the code for multiple zombies working and just held off on releasing him until it was ready. Maybe they would've had the time to get some Nemesis skins available for launch, to mitigate the slowed release? Maybe more testing to realize that RCPD is far too large and should've been two stages, not one? Maybe not tanked their own Anniversary event with console-breaking performance issues?
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Played a few games and ended with a sub-2k average. My numbers were brought up considerably by being put against Brand New Player teams. Folks who regularly fail skill checks on generators, or injured survivors who just run up to unhook in my face to tag in for Hanging From A Hook duty.
And the weird part was that the potato games were on killers I've played more. I tried out Twins (never played even a single game with them before) and got all-meta perk, SWF teams burning location offerings, running right to the power loops, and always on-hand to take out Victor and heal the injured survivor before Charlotte even gets close to them.
I can't speak to overall MMR values, but the "Brand New Killer" values are completely not working. THAT'S the games I need to play against potatoes, not the ones where I know the killer inside and out.
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There are 16 survivor perks and 4 killer ones. Survivor perks should never trump killer ones (but, of course, we see how that works with Iron Will, so there's zero chance this'll get fixed).
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For reference, the Clown's bottles Hinder for 15% and lasts for the entire duration of being in the cloud and for 2.5 seconds after leaving it (10x longer than Nemesis). And he's widely regarded as one of the worse killers.
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It's a pretty academic question, considering the Hindered effect lasts for 1/4th of a second. It is a vestigial hold-over from its original incarnation, where Contaminating hindered the survivor for an extended period, to make the initial tentacle hit not give survivors a full, free health state, before they decided to nerf the character pre-release.
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@Bravobro said:
I am rank 1 killer and can say it is very difficult for killers. But the hardest thing to do is to do it yourself. I know that you want to have reached rank 1 once. After that, however, it should not matter whether you win or lose.
Winning and losing don't matter as much as feeling like there was a CHANCE you could've won. When it's an outrageous blowout, that's not fun in the slightest.
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Split it in two. Bottom half for one map, top half for another map. Put barriers blocking entry to the other level on each map. That'd most of the problems solved right there, AND we get more than just the one map. It'd have way more difference than the 5 identical Badham Elementary maps.
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His AddOns are certainly the worst in the game. He has THREE good addons - the ones that increase the range of his shockwave - but they are actually a trap, because if you use them too often, you will never adjust to the actual range of his power and won't learn the right time to use it. HIs purple and Iridescent addons are so nightmarishly useless that the mind boggles at how they made it to beta, much less in-game. I can only speculate that they actually had no idea what to do for Addons and just said "what useless status effects can we toss onto Torment?"
But then, everyone agrees his addons are the height of garbage, so let's talk about PH's power set. He has two features: a Shockwave and Torment Trails. When people complain about "shutting down loops" or insist he's perfectly fine, they are talking about his shockwave. This is the second shortest range of any ranged power (8m), with a built-in delay on start (plunging sword into ground) and on use (travel time of the ground chunks), in addition to the cool-down delay of pulling the sword back up. ADDITIONALLY, this move is accompanied by a super loud auditory warning AND a super obvious visual warning where the move will hit, giving survivors ample time to simply step to the left or right. On top of all that, his ability to turn is extremely throttled during every step of this power (unlike every other ranged killer), meaning if somebody does move left or right, you have to pick up the sword and reposition, for more delay and slow-down.
The ultimate consequence of all these limitations is that this power is good for exactly TWO scenarios: if a survivor is close range and stuck in an animation (dropping pallet/vaulting), or they're stationary and you know where they are (I'm All Ears). It is useless against attentive survivors in every other scenario. It it literally only there to discourage looping and to encourage holding W. It is NOT a good move. It feels bad to use and it is actually punishing to try to use your power on any situation other than the two I've noted because there is SO MUCH slowdown that the survivor essentially gets a free Sprint Burst every time you try and miss. On top of all that, it was nerfed to INCREASE the time from when you put the sword down and when you can just M1.
But the shockwave at least has a point in the game where it is supposed to be used. Let's talk about the other half of his kit. His Torment Trails take too long to set, last for too little time, slow you down from finding a chase just to set, cover too little, cannot be placed in any spot you would want them to be (hooks, stairs, gens, doors) unlike every other type of trap or killer environment element, and can 100% be evaded by survivors who know to sneak over them. Even if a survivor DOES get tormented, the Killer Instinct lasts for so little time (with the pulsing glyph often just not showing up at all), that it is a useless "tracking" feature. ADDITIONALLY, torment can be removed by saving someone from a cage, so every time you cage somebody, that's two instances of Torment removed from survivors.
So what's even the point? If you DO send somebody to a cage, it spirits them away and stops hook-based perks from working. So this incredibly throttled power, with so many layers of weaknesses baked into it, avoids Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike? Well, clearly it needs some kind of huge NERF! Like, I don't know, how about the killer can't see the caged survivor, unlike every other hooked victim. Because there might be some risk of the killer keeping an eye out on survivors going in for a save? Unlike every other hooked victim? So for PH and ONLY PH, that's where the line is drawn on camping/patrolling? That's some bespoke nerfs, just because it stops the survivors' two favorite crutches (while also shutting down several killer crutches like BBQ at the same time, but hey, le'ts ignore that!)
No, PH needs some BIG changes. That was a lot of words, but at the end of the day, you have to ask: does his power feel good to use? And the answer is a resounding No. Nobody puts down Torment Trails because they do so little, take so long, and last as long as a fart in a windstorm. The shockwave is only there to punish inattentive loopers or people who automatically throw every pallet, and the punishment for missing is to extend the chase for another tile or three. And all that is on top of having the worst assortment of useless, boring, uninspired addons in the game (almost all of which rely on Torment Trails which, as noted, are bad to use and completely avoidable by survivors).
Can PH get kills vs. survivors? Sure. So can any M1 killer. Does his power actively add any strength to him? Against survivors with any experience at all? Actually, no. The three waves of PH nerfs post-release made sure of that.
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There's levels of how good a win feels.
Getting 0 kills but hooking all survivors once with BBQ & Chili is a Little Win
Getting 0 kills but hooking all survivors twice is a Little Win
Getting 2+ kills only at the very end of the match (because survivors decided to screw around instead of just leaving) is a Little Win
Getting 4 kills off of <6 hooks is a Little Win
Getting 1 kill but the dead survivor is the highest rank in the group is a Good Win
Getting 1 kill but the dead survivor is the one who was clicking, tea bagging, and otherwise making a nuisance of themselves is a Good Win
Getting 2+ kills over the course of the game is a Good Win
Getting a kill on every survivor holding a Flashlights is a Good Win
Getting 3+ kills off of 9+ hooks is a Big Win
Completing a Daily Ritual AND an Archive Challenge on the same match is a Big Win even if you get 0 hooks.
Slugging a Sabotage Team and letting them all bleed out as they think on their obnoxious team strat is a Big Win
Having 1+ survivors DC like pathetic babies when they get downed once and spending the rest of the game helping the other survivors get points and let them escape is a Big win
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@Miles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2400766#Comment_2400766
Overcharge sucks. I have been able to hit the skill check while i was running away.
Dragons grip however is better, but god damn does it have a lot of cooldowns.
This is the problem with MOST new killer perks. They're buried under layers and layers of cool downs, activation restrictions, and arbitrary limits that make the older perks almost universally better.
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@Laurie268 said:
Overcharge and dragon’s grip are made to counter gen tapping, you could run those.
What Overcharge is supposed to do: the moment a survivor touches a kicked gen, they are given a difficult skill check which, if not completed, deal regression damage to the gen.
What overcharge actually does: put a difficult skill check up which only actually activates if the survivor holds down M1 for an extended period. If a generator is simply touched and released, the check does not appear, the generator no longer regresses, and the perk is completely negated.
For some reason, there is a "grace period" between when a check 'activates' and when the penalty for backing away mid-check actually starts. This is probably intended, to help players with poor latency? But as stands, it makes it so that Gen Tapping actually 100% defeates the Overcharge perk.
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Kicking Gens should automatically regress it by 10% (with Pop giving you the much larger 25% if you take the perk and have just hooked somebody). You won't see players tapping gens like that if the killer can delete all their progress with a few swift kicks.
Or alternately: kicking a generator starts the regression and ALSO blocks the generator from being worked on (like the Cheryl perk "Repressed Alliance") for 30 seconds (limit of one gen blocked at a time). That way, you get 7% regression from a pick AND it forces survivors to go find another gen to start repairing or waste 30 seconds waiting for the block to fall off.
Also, consider: EVERYBODY who has ever played this game for the first time THINKS that kicking a generator actually damages it. It looks like you're damaging it. It sounds like you're damaging it. But all you're doing is starting a 1/4th speed slow degradation, with every actual gen regression option in the game being locked behind perks.
If survivors get an always-on Obsession (to discourage tunneling) and a Per Survivor Hook Counter (to track who's in the most danger for solo queues), why can't killers get core system upgrades that make sense (smashing apart a friggin machine with a size 50 boot actually breaks something) and discourage abusive gameplay styles (gen tapping)?
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@ProfoundEnding said:
These all sound nice but would absolutely kill que times.
Well, that's why one option would be to have an alt game mode day, where every game in the queue is an alternate game type. Like mini versions of the Blight event with the pustula flowers, for example.
You're never going to grow new alternatives to the game's core gameplay loop without SOME kind of experimentation. If nothing else, you could have the alt game types available through a pre-made alternate queue system, like the "Kill Your Friends" game option.
In a perfect world, when you queue for a match, the actual mechanics of the match would be revealed when you get into the game every time, and would force players to adapt on the fly so there's more depth to DbD than "sit on gen, run if chased." Ideally, each killer would have their own twist on the core gameplay, as they warp the trial around their own, unique lore. But, that'd be way more work than the more simple "make things a little different for the sake of variety" options I'm proposing.
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Discord already exists and people on discord with one another already enjoy the myriad benefits associated with total map awareness that confers. Since there is zero chance killers will be buffed to compensate for all the free perks SWF get from voice chat, and there is no way to prevent Discord chat short of removing pre-made groups, I would rather ALL survivors get proximity voice chat (or, at least the option to turn it on), and then killers get appropriately buffed in compensation.
That said, having ANY survivor communication DOES defeat the "scared and alone" point of the game, and completely is not fair in the slightest. I ALSO don't want to hear some 12 year old tossing casual racism to try to be 'cool.' But third party programs will forever prevent the game from anything remotely resembling its original intent, and the Developers have expressly said that they're not putting SWF is their own lobbies (or otherwise nerfing/restricting/impacting SWF players), you're just never going to get balance.
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Hexes should be one-per-match and affect ALL totems at once. Cleansing any totem reduces the effectiveness of the hex but does not remove it until 3-5 totems are found.
The meta-totem perks are bad and should be reworked to have powers all on their own instead of requiring you to use two perk slots to try to get one effect going.
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A more useful tier list would be "How difficult is this killer to pick up and play to any degree?"
We'd have folks like Nurse and Blight down in F-tier, since their powers are extremely punishing for those who have not dumped a ton of time into them. While killers like Freddy or Leatherface are closer to A or even S tier, since their powers are intuitive and fun to use. (though that doesn't necessarily make them good at the actual match results)
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I would rather Coup de Grace be a carbon copy of Dead Hard instead. What's good for the goose is good for gander.
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Where's the option for the smooth, quality Animations they originally released as an update, before survivors whined and complained so hard that they cut out 90% of the inbetween frames and went back to the horrible 2-sprite flip-flop effect they had before (and now have currently)
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It is GOOD to have killers with different ranges of powers and different threats to survivors. When you hear that Halloween theme playing for the second time, you need to drop everything and RUN. Michael Myers is no joke, and treating him like everyone else, who you can loop and taunt and teabag is a great way to get your silly ass stabbed to death.
It would be a blessing if only MORE killers had addons that so radically changed up their gameplay. Myers is a target we should look to for ideal AddOn balance, not try to nerf one of the only killers whose AddOns make the game more interesting, instead of have no impact whatsoever, like Pyramid Head or Nemesis.
And, like stated above, Tombstone Piece has a very obvious counter: just climb in a locker. He can't kill you at all in there (which, to be fair, is true to the bedroom closet scene in Halloween 1.)
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Survivors get a Hook counter baseline so they can weigh who should take a protection hit for one another. Survivors get an Obsession baseline, so the killer is never sure if one of them brought Decisive Strike. Survivors get to change their character at the last possible minute but killers can't. Killers lost Moris but Survivors kept keys.
But sure. Let's toss on another core gameplay buff for them.