1ettuce
1ettuce
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I see plenty of ppl that just want the game to be easy for them I'm ngl, def not all of them tho but quite a bit. Either that or just ppl disagreeing w me w non existent reasoning that basically just boils down to insults or whatever
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428136#Comment_3428136
Here's the thing though, fun is subjective.
I don't think a mechanic (as niche as it may be) that allows the Survivors to screw a handful of Killers out of their powers whenever they have a flashlight, flashbang or tripmine is a ''fun'' mechanic, i'd rather just keep it removed altogether than try to adjust it.
It hardly really "screwed over" the stronger killers that used to have it
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@Spectralfx said:
We don't need more shadow nerf on killers that are subpar atm.
That's probably why they did away with these mechanics and its strictly a good thing.
Artist spirit and nurse aren't subpar, at least for nurse removing it did more harm than good.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428308#Comment_3428308
From what I've seen from you're post I think you're very biased. There are plenty of people who want a good "balance" on both sides. Sure, there are some who don't but I do honesty believe they are in the minority.
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@Pulsar said:
Every time I see the whole "I don't care about their fun" I see this image in my head.
Same lol tho sometimes I'll just fr be on autopilot playing killer and might tunnel w/o even realizing it, that's what "your fun isn't my responsibility" means to me but ik some dudes out there be playing specifically for other ppls lack of fun
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@[Deleted User] said:
See that's the thing. That's not the counter argument I see all the time. The counter argument I see a lot that "Yes, bHVR should look at tunnelling and camping. The issue lies in how they do it without heavily reducing a killer's ability to eliminate players"
And this is a real issue.
cant relate idk i see it all the time
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@Nebula said:
That’s the inherent problem whenever you pit two different sides against each other. There will always be people who will die on hills no matter how short they are. A lot of people take it as personal attacks when you complain about their gameplay style.
yep, p much...
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@Chordyceps said:
Was stunning Wraith in place instantly with a single flashbang fun? Yes.
Was it fair. Hell no.
Was slowing yourself down significantly or getting off of a gen to burn a crow/swarm fun? Yes
Was it fair? Honestly, yes
Same with nurse's junk, but I absolutely agree that flashbangs were waaay too strong against wraith, it was pretty stupid
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428196#Comment_3428196
I'm sorry but I disagree.
I'm j saying if a killer like wraith became the or one of the best killers in the game that'd be completely awful
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@gnehehe said:
As a 'STBFL main' player, my few concerns are just:
- obs should be aware of the perk, esp in soloq ... at the very least when 2-4 stacks are achieved (could be diff levels for different tiers)
- 'stacks/2' - so max 4 stacks - around the hooks, weakening the camping ability with the perk
I am fine with everything else, tbh
If there is another problem, it is a more general issue than the perk itself
sounds alr
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427456#Comment_3427456
It doesn't really matter how hard or easy a killer is, Wraith is on the lower end of killers and having a big weakness to flashlights and flashbangs in the game wasn't really fair. Even without it he's not suddenly an amazing killer.
uh yeah it kinda does, good reason for him being one of the weaker killers
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Oh yeah I experienced this as surv it was so weird lmao
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@Monlyth said:
...Then be the change you want to see. Do not teabag, do not emote at the Killer, do not BM, at all. Especially not when the Killer is playing nice.
When a team of Survivors escape, it is almost guaranteed that at least one of them will teabag if I go to the exit gates. And many will wait out the EGC timer if you don't chase them out, too. This happens remarkably consistently; it's seemingly never enough for Survivors to take their W and move on, someone's always got to rub it in the Killer's face first.
And then those same Survivors will often get mad at you when you respond in kind. Ignoring that tunneling and camping are viable strategies that see regular use in comp play, Killers play mean because... what do they get out it if they play nice? More teabags at the exit gates?
And to you, sure, teabagging is just this once and doesn't tangibly do anything, so you might see it as harmless and have trouble seeing how it might negatively impact others. But for the Killer, it's not just this once. It's every match, and it's hard not to take it personally when BM is the rule and not the exception, when seemingly every Survivor you meet sees fit to kick you when you're down.
And sure, maybe not everyone who teabags at the exit gates means it maliciously, but if something is considered to be toxic near-universally by the Killer community, I think it's time to get a different signal if you're trying to be friendly. Might I suggest nodding? Or the old classic: If you can't say anything nice to someone, don't say anything.
I really expected this to say "Then be the change you want to see. Do not camp, do not tunnel" but uh yeah ok
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428085#Comment_3428085
Wraith, Hag & Artist mostly.
Hag I agree with, wraith only partially, artist is either an extra person not doing gens or one person taking a big risk burning ur crow mid chase. If u want u could even make the crow burning take longer but as long as they're fair (which they generally were imo) I think they're better to have in the game as just fun niche features
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@Smoe said:
I'd rather we don't bring it back.
For as rarely as i encountered Survivors using that mechanic, it was quite frankly really frustrating to deal with when it did happen.
As what killer?
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@Spectralfx said:
Nah, those changes were good for the game.
In fact, you shouldn't be able to cancel Legion's frenzy with flashlight... that killer is hoplessly underpowered already!
Removing fun was not good for the game, they weren't unfair at all except for hag's and wraiths when he broke a pallet
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@DudelPuma said:
it would be interesting to see if all exhausting perks were only activated after you were hooked, but of course you would have to buff some of them otherwise they would just be dead, for example do a head on stun for 5 seconds, Balanced gives you 5sec speed boost etc. (attention: only one example)
Naw they should have some condition but not dhs dhs is honestly really dumb
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@TonyXSplash said:
Title^
The hooked survivor cannot unhook themselves without a help from a teammate. Please consider making The Doctors shock not affect unhooking.
Facts
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427563#Comment_3427563
I've heard the "lose collision" suggestion multiple times. Personally, I'm not sure how well that would work as we have no mechanic that even mimics something like that to tell how it would go. It seems like one of the stronger choices to help with this but then that does take away agency from the survivors if they choose to try to risk bodyblocking with BT.
But again, it's hard to say as this isn't currently a mechanic in game so it's hard to say what kind of abuses could come with it
We kinda do! Like Myers and ghost face lose collision with survivors while stalking, and knight loses collision with survivors being hunted
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427732#Comment_3427732
1, don't let him 8 stack 2, that's the idea - you take 2 stacks and you run away 3, you can dodge M2's much easier then M1's. Taking hits for teammates works also really well and that one IS common in higher level...
1 much easier said than done, you can't just ensure that 2 like I said already means nothing when killers already at max 3 sure but killer could just get good and not miss, like it's not hard 3.5 if u try to just take hits for teammates they can still just m2 u there I don't at all see what's stopping them
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ALSO at hook the killer only needs to hit you once to lose collision and then hook the person, and taking only one hit as mentioned before does absolutely nothing when the killers already at 8 stacks
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And the m2s also make it from being your choice whether or not to counter it to being forced to take hits at hook or else you'll just get chased, where with killers without m2s will have to ignore you or lose stacks. Really if taking hits at hook was sooo common then I see no reason m2s losing stacks would be so crazy or impactful
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Ok fair enough, you can't hard tunnel them out but you can still easily take care of them with m2s and you can kill them while maintaining 8 stacks, which is just nuts. And there is still the problem where once you get to max stacks in general it's just unrealistic to counter, a whole down only bringing you down to 4 stacks is ridiculous imo, and can easily be less w m2s bc taking hits at hook isn't always gonna be a viable option especially with how little it's worth it really
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@Gandor said:
The perk is fine. If you really want to make it a little more fair, give warning to soloQ that the perk is in play, but only after a few tokens already accumulated (because soloQ has no way to know if they didn't see the chase or don't find killer's behavior odd - which in some games never comes to play). No other change is needed.
Also if it's killer capable of M2 (and you can't dodge it), just bodyblock when killer picks someone up. If he drops, it probably means he traded 1 hook for another + new chase time + harder hits with only M2's.
You could still tunnel the obsession out with max stacks and could still pretty consistently retain max stacks once you get there. Not to mention the camping and tunneling issues which are still there depending on how camping and tunneling are changed
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427402#Comment_3427402
Because it's exactly that, not fun, especially for the killer.
Just a method for the group role to cancel killer powers and assert "dominance" over the individual role in this asymmetrical game.
+ It's hardly "unfun" for the killer if you literally just get better, with the exception of hag and wraith but literally only while breaking a pallet cloaked
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Stbfl defenders have good or constructive points challenge 😬
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@AGM said:
Why make a second thread on the topic if you already know most people think it's fine? At this point it's just spam, especially if you're just going to dismiss any dissenting opinions as "an echo chamber."
Most people disagree with you. Get over it.
This is a feedback page, I am giving feedback :) I'm allowed to continue giving feedback when still nothing has changed and I have some more thoughts about it, and two posts over the course of like a month is not spam lmao. I don't care that most ppl disagree cuz I disagree w them too, and I think this perk absolutely needs to be changed. And I'm not just dismissing anyone who disagrees as an echo chamber, I'm just saying there is an echo chamber when so many ppl just say the perk is fine without any thought. I'll get over ppl disagreeing w me but I won't get over this perk bc it is problematic. Seriously just grow up
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427402#Comment_3427402
Because it's exactly that, not fun, especially for the killer.
Just a method for the group role to cancel killer powers and assert "dominance" over the individual role in this asymmetrical game.
It is never that deep lmao
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427607#Comment_3427607
Imagine if hooking a survivor that has never been hooked gives all survivors a 9% penalty to all actions for the rest of the game if no one is dead at the time of the hook (the penalty stays forever).
Killers will actively hunt out at least three players and hook them for that juicy 27% slowdown from 3 hooks and zero perk slots.
It has to be at least 9% because hooking one player 3 times is just 25% slowdown for the survivors (and is far easier).
People will always tunnel so long as it wins games, even if not tunneling wins games even harder
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
"But m1 killers need it" ok, then buff them.
Sure, let's do all that in one patch and I won't care about STBFL nerf.
Let's buff Deathslinger, Clown, Doctor, Pig, Demogorgon, Trapper, Sadako, Nightmare, Knight, Skull Merchant, Nemesis.
Then you can remove, or rework STBFL for all I care. Good luck with that.
I mean yeah all good things, except deathslinger demogorgon nemesis and knight don't need buffs or stbfl
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427241#Comment_3427241
Do you know the story about the sun and the wind having a bet?
Give killers a huge buff for not tunneling that is better than tunneling and they won't. It's really that simple.
Not always true
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@Boons123 said:
Honestly, even when I knew the killer had this perk, I tried to force him to beat me to lose tokens (was demogorgon)
But every time I try he use power or ignores me
Even when he was carrying the survivor on his shoulder I came to try to make him lose the tokens
He drop the survivor and uses his power to knock me out
What a mad layer cake. Have to pray the obsession knows about the perk, have to pray they give a crap, have to literally go down for it to matter if the killers already at high stacks, has to not be killer that can just m2 to keep stacks, and after all that theyll prolly still camp in endgame and guarantee a kill...
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427461#Comment_3427461
It would be a free body block that forces the killer to find a way around them (wasting their time or downright letting the unhooker escape/get to a stronger loop) or forced to hit them and waste their time.
You'd also lose collision with them, so even if they're standing between you and another survivor you'd just go right through them
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@Rudjohns said:
To me, the perk should lose tokens if the obsession loses a health state by any means. The perk is only strong on m2 killers, and m1 killers, weaker in the game in general, can't even use the perk properly.
exactly crazy to me you could say this and someone could unironically respond with "but the weaker killers need it! you can't nerf it" when that change is completely irrelevant to the weakest killers
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@Crowman said:
STBFL is not a problem. Many killers can already camp/tunnel effective without it and it's hardly an unstoppable perk. Some people really don't want to learn to play around things.
And those killers are also a problem, thanks for the whataboutism tho ig. Also uh no, I have no problem learning how to play around things, sometimes it just isn't possible, as I already explained!
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@tippy2k2 said:
That's not really any kind of incentive
People will think I'm bad at the game? ...oh no, random strangers on The Internet think I'm not very good. My life is now over.
Like...people are going to play in a way that they think is most effective. Whether you/the opponent thinks that makes them a bad player or not is negligible.
I don't know what the fix ultimately is for tunneling as trying to "nerf" it will always have unintended consequences that players can (and will) exploit and even adding "good" incentives (like a BBQ bonus for hooking different survivors) won't stop someone who just plain wants to tunnel.
imo example of nerfing tunneling that (i think) couldnt be abused is not being able to get hit after being unhooked for some duration which is paused while in chase, and is ofc deactivated when performing a conspicuous action or if someone else is hooked. also wouldnt be able to drop pallets or go for like flashlight saves or stuff like that that could get abused
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@Krazzik said:
It wasn't really fair for an already-weak killer like Wraith to ALSO have a weakness to flashlights.
hes also the easiest killer tho, doesnt rly need buffs either 🤷
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@bazarama said:
Flashlights are abused by bully sqauds. Taking lightborn away is a very bad idea
You do not need lightborn to deal w flashlight squads lol
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@AssortedSorting said:
A minimal occurrence, minimal impact event, like decaying Spirits husk with an item a Survivor may or may not have, doesn’t need the effort to keep/maintain in the game.
Your argument against Nurse’s interaction removal is now you can’t try to stop her from tunneling, again needing a specific item/Perk to counter tunneling and is a band-aid fix to that issue.
”It made sense for Wraith and Hag”, because tying niche Power interactions to bringing an item means there’s always going to be opportunity cost for *engaging gameplay* when not selecting a specific item. Instead bake that gameplay into the Power, you get a better average to balance around and Power interaction options are less dependent on item selection.
Make Zombies able to be Head-On’ed by default without the use of a Perk: Zombies now can be destroyed by a Pallet Drop, or a player can lure a zombie to a Locker, and perform a Rushed Exit to stun them.
Suppressing a Nurse blink via Flashlight seems like it’s was missed when removing the Lightburn stun.
Spirit being blinded out of her phase honestly seems like an oversight, I am also curious in what scenario that actually happens in.
Blinding Legion out of FF to my knowledge is only done in animation locks, and I don’t think that kind of meta-gameplay is good design.
If you want to add a chase disruptor tool, go ahead. But don’t make it unique to each and every Killers Power, instead target general chase mechanics all Killer use: sight/scratch marks/Aura read capabilities/Bloodlust.
It was just a fun thing u can do, obviously things like countering tunneling (or other stuff) shouldn't need a perk/item but my point is that these were just fun little things, and there was no point in removing them entirely bc of how minimal some of them were (and bc the reasoning behind removing them was complete nonsense). But simply the engaging gameplay stuff doesn't need to be made base, that's like if head on became basekit it's just not necessary and these were just fine fun parts of the game
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@burt0r said:
"Fun"
Why u put this in quotes as if it wasn't
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@Katzengott said:
Would love getting some incentives to not tunnel. Until than, why shouldn't i?
3 kills are a win, the entity doesn't care what really happens in the game. Nor do i about the survs and vice versa.
That's why they're asking the devs to stop it and not u
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@NoHookDC said:
Remember folks:
- Killers playing efficiently is 'tunneling' and should be removed.
- Survivors playing efficiently means Killers need to 'git gud'. 🙃
It's not about playing efficiently itself it's about how boring playing efficiently currently is (hard tunneling) bc of how the game is balanced, if playing efficiently meant spreading hooks or whatever nobody would complain and anyone who did would be wrong
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@MerleDixon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426444#Comment_3426444
Your acting like survivors don't genrush 50% of the time.
What does that have to do with unhooking w/o bt?
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426444#Comment_3426444
I mean you could say that it's a skill issue thinking you're entitled to a second health-state upon immediately being unhooked because of poor decision making of other Survivors.
Just pull the Killer away from Hook like you're able to prevent survivors from splitting input on gens.
"Just pull the killer away from hook" lol good luck with that
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@MerleDixon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425796#Comment_3425796
You can unhook without bt. If you don't know how that's a skill issue
Sit right on top of the hook, surv gets unhooked, immediately smack them, absolutely zero things they can do. What's really a skill issue is thinking you deserve a pity kill after losing all the gens
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At least hitting on hook gives an opening for someone to get the save without trading, and idk how tbagging could be changed without making huntress egregiously unfun to verse. I'd rather either of these than getting told nasty stuff in post game chat
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3425671#Comment_3425671
No, what I'm saying is that they said people wouldn't complain about other exhaustion, and lo and behold they did, and you're now saying that they won't complain about everything else, just like the people who complained about dead hard
I'm not saying that? I'm well aware that this community will complain about anything and everything
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@NoHookDC said:
Whenever someone says 'A nerf to punish people', what they are really saying is 'I don't like this, and I want people who use it to suffer.' or 'I want to punish people who broke my made up, unenforceable rules'.
So...No.
Or maybe just that bubba camping should have counterplay bc the fact that it doesn't is just not fair in the slightest?
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Bubbas camping ability being in need of counterplay should be inarguable truth and yet...