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1ettuce
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/374852/idea-to-reducing-camping-tunneling
Idea to reducing Camping/Tunneling
1) Learn how to loop
2) Stop unhook while the killer is nearby
3) Stop use BT to bodyblock
4) Learn how to loop
here, solved your Camping/Tunneling issue
"learning to loop" has never been a good point for tunneling being ok. tunneling makes the looping skill of the team intrinsically less valuable then it is otherwise, unless the killer tunnels a rly good player and the others are potatoes
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Neither :/ I want it back to 100% but keep the exhaustion thing
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Don't q up just to dc
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Of course anyone who disagrees w me and says they main the same role as me is lying, because it's impossible to disagree with me unless you main the opposite role
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@ili said:
this second suggestion would be perfect, I like using Deliverance it will help a lot, especially when the killer likes to camp, then my team makes a generator instead of saving me.
yes!! and i would totes 99 a teammate w resilience 🥹
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@Gandor said:
To the topic - both ideas are good
Offtopic - what about removing all the killer perks survivor can take for a change? Why is no mither still a thing with much bigger downside then upside?
Lmao even more off topic for ya one time I was no mither memeing w a bud and he was like I wish no mither didn't take up a perk slot and I was like damn ur spitting
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I agree I rly believe the game is balanced around swf currently
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@Veroles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3429174#Comment_3429174
I really would love to agree that the "only show it in pause menu" would be the key, but sadly i guess that's another reason for 4%ing for some players. They go into the match -> press escape -> check perks -> See there is nothing what makes sense -> They feel that mates don't even want to try to survive in earnest -> Killer, where are you? More or less like that.
I mean, not everyone would do that, but a certain segment of players certainly would.
Maybe it could be a personal toggleable setting to show your build? Then again maybe some ppl would dodge anyone who has them hidden. Idk there's prolly some foolproof way to do it tho at a certain point maybe it'd just be ok if not that many ppl are like that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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@BlueHorkew said:
For a few years hook grabs has been a topic that is brought up when talking about camping, i have seen multiple survivors and killer mains in favour of removing them because they feel unfair and promote a waiting mini game with lag.
But what are the devs thought on the matter, during the last year many interactions have been removed like locker saves and lightburn, BT became base kit, more killer with anti camping in their power. Even a similar mechanic the hatch grab was removed in the past.
So, why isn't hook grabbing being discussed more or is it even the devs intention to change it?
It's an unfair mechanic that mostly punishes uncoordenated team play, aka, solo q.
The devs already seem to be ok with hook trading, but hook grabbing removes that balance and makes it RNG with lag.
So, again, will hook grabs be removed or are the devs ok with it?
Hook grabs introduce a fun mindgame but only when the killer is camping and do nothing besides helping them do so, they should be removed
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@Veroles said:
The first point i am not sure so i say nothing to it.
I think the second point i personally do like really much but sadly i think it will make a lot of people want to avoid certain perk setups, what means more lobby dodges and backfill scenarios. Like:
- You don't play any exhaustion perk? ->Dodge
- You don't play any perks? -> Dodge
- You play a setup what makes no sense to others? -> Dodge
- You play a setup what is not supporting the team and only benefits your own survive e.g clairvoyance? -> Dodge
But yeah, in general i would like it.
Oh yeah true, I've seen that point before I just forgot about it. Maybe dodging could be penalized or it could only show up in the pause menu, idk
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@DudelPuma said:
there they are! the solutions! my mates will then make gens and not hide at the edge of the map while I am being followed by the killer for minutes and he remembers that he even tunnels me because no gens are made, and if I make gens then my mates will survive for a long time in the chase because they are now have more info
no! solo q would need actual buffs (action buffs) as an example heal 20-30% faster, then you can also use selfcare if it stayed the same with the swf, that's one of the few ideas there are enough only bhvr has to do something that's for sure!
nooo
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@sanees said:
ok, but now we will count all the survivors swf and therefore we will strengthen all the killers several times
sure idk about all tho, nurse and blight dont rly need it
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@ReikoMori said:
The second one is fine, but the first one is literally one of the major issues with SWFs that shouldn't be recreated in solo play.
That's the sort of information that by design is not meant to be so easily shared. Also that would buff SWFs because the more things you offload from them to the game just telling everyone by default the more you streamline communication.
Well there is nothing you can do to stop swfs from sharing that info with each other, and it would only buff swfs in the same way that the second thing and current activity hud does, it's just not that significant imo
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428552#Comment_3428552
Excuse me?
Pop was obliterated. Eruption was obliterated. Every gen regression "buff" gained in 6.1 was lost in the last patch.
Killer is in a "nerfed" state considering the times before 6.1 when you look at the game as a whole. Yes DH was annoying but I played around it with STBFL. Not getting to use gen regression hurts way more.
Every killer nerf/buff in 6.1.0 can be matched with a survivor nerf/buff from the same patch, with the exception of the general killer improvements. I hate to ride numbers, but kill rates went up after the patch for a reason. Only significant killer nerfs since then have been nurse nerf, eruption nerf, basekit bt buff, and solo hud which doesn't count bc we're talking about what buffs killer got to compensate for solo getting buffed, could almost say the same for eruption tbh
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428269#Comment_3428269
I've never once said Wraith should be the strongest killer in the game or even high up there. Even with the removal of lightburn he's STILL not that good, calm down.
I'm fully aware that's why I said I'm just saying lol
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428969#Comment_3428969
bruh it is perfectly visible and audible at a distance of 15 meters
"perfectly visible" are you unaware of how wraiths power works? not like he becomes completely invisible but he becomes p much objectively harder to see
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428745#Comment_3428745
except that's a blatant lie.
they can and they will its not hard. you ever played an FPS in your life? you think its hard? what are you, a console player with a joystick?
with a mouse its brain dead easy to put a cursor on a big killer that moves super janky and HAS TO STOP for an animation to take place.
your points are completely false.
Considering that wraith isn't that easy to see, yeah it is kinda hard, I've played wraith myself plenty of times and done that and it's just not a problem
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428714#Comment_3428714
I've been saying for a long time that DH needs to go poof. It's dumb and almost never works. But when it does work that game is just completely ruined to play.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428717#Comment_3428717
That's not true. Quick and easy example : you make not tunneling stronger than tunneling /gasp.
Give the survivors a 9% debuff to everything the first time they are hooked if nobody is dead yet. This will make the killer want to stack a quick -36% debuff by getting 4 hooks on different players. Make the debuff stay for the rest of the game once earned.
This will drag the game out as gens will take ~122 seconds when the full debuff hits. So everyone plays for longer; no more does Jake get hooked 3 times in the first two minutes and everyone else plays without him for 4-8 minutes.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428723#Comment_3428723
IF you have an option that is stronger than camping/tunneling then most killers will do that.
The reality is that Blight and Nurse can get super quick downs so they don't need to camp or tunnel. The rest of the killer cast is pathetic by comparison and needs to tunnel and camp vs efficient teams.
Keep tunneling as easy as it is now and people will still do it even if not tunneling is stronger. If you want to actually fix tunneling you should have no problem with it being nerfed
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@KayTwoAyy said:
you should be able to make suggestions without ppl going "it's part of the game" as if that means it should be.
Amen.
It's rather comical seeing what this discussion devloved into, given the intention of your post.
:)...
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428735#Comment_3428735
Ok I moved, but the survivor move its crosshair now what?
there is no counter plays and you know it, I'm humoring you right now.
i quite literally just said theyre not gonna be able to track u perfectly and can find time to uncloak w/o getting lightburned but sure ur humoring me keep telling urself that
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428731#Comment_3428731
Of course.
They camp because they feel that is the best way to win.
Survivors don't have fun with Camping, so alter the best method for Killers to "win".
The problem is you'll get even more Survivors failing to escape.
Or to be annoying or because it's easy, something which flat buffs won't change at all
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428651#Comment_3428651
oh please tell me of that "counter play"
survivor show up with flashlight and point it at you, what do?
literally just move? survivor has to constantly be pointing their flashlight at u to lightburn u, theyre not gonna be able to track u perfectly if u just keep moving and u can eventually uncloak without getting lightborn, have done it plentyyy of times
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428721#Comment_3428721
Would the game be better if every Killer aside from Bubba had strong incentive not to Camp?
If so, this is the path that will actually work (aside from total newbs).
Yes but does it matter if they have no strong decentive not to camp?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428717#Comment_3428717
Camping Killers receive no buff with Devour Hope.
The benefits require the Killer to be a certain distance from the unhook.
The Bubba that just camps the first person they hook does not care
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428710#Comment_3428710
If Devour Hope stayed in effect, the Killer does not gain any benefit unless they are 24m + from the unhook.
The Killer gets BETTER the more unhooks the Survivors perform, as long as they move away from the hook.
Devour Hope would need some nerf, or it would be too strong without the hex, but it is a great example of how to incentivize Killers to not camp. Give them better odds of success by not camping.
Tunneling would need something similar, but also require a gen slowdown or the benefit would never be realized as the gates would be powered before the benefit manifested.
Giving killers a flat buff and no nerf will not fix camping or tunneling. Ever.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428704#Comment_3428704
When the gen regression META was most powerful killers still tunneled and camped. A lot easier, in fact.
Exactly it's always been bc tunneling is easy, I don't think nearly as many ppl tunnel bc they feel forced to as some ppl act like there is
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@[Deleted User] said:
Want to get rid of Camping?
Remove the hex portion of Devour Hope so it can not be removed.
Get rid of Tunneling?
Bring back gen regression and add perks that give the Killer a better chance to win by spreading hooks.
Problem is, Survivors are going to be unhappy with any solution, because any viable solution has to give Killers the same or better odds of success in order to get them to purse those options.
The general player base is not going to intentionally play "badly" (i.e. lower their odds of accomplishing their goal).
And how do you nerf camping and tunneling to compensate? Or do you only buff killers ignorant to the fact that there's nothing stopping someone from still camping and tunneling w these buffs. Also that devour idea is completely terrible even if camping and tunneling get absolutely gutted
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428689#Comment_3428689
I read your post. It's still a double standard. Survivors want killers to be punished or forbidden, but don't want survivors to be nerfed to allow this to happen. They want killers to take the full burden of this game change.
Because if you want tunneling to be removed from the game, then it needs to be much easier to find someone else to chase. If you want to punish tunneling, then the game should also punish survivors that try to excessively hide from the killer. The game should force both sides to interact with each other, instead of just forcing killers to change, and allowing survivors to be as non-interactive as possible.
Ah ok, now you're actually talking about the game changing instead of player behavior changing, took ya long enough. Anyways yeah, still no double standard bc I only used tunneling as an example for my point, and had nothing to do w the point itself. (And I literally never said that I wouldn't want survivors to be nerfed in a way that compensates)
Also this :)
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428465#Comment_3428465
Yes. The entire point is a huge double standard. Survivors want killers to make bad game decisions, so that survivors can have more fun..... but also think survivors don't need to make any bad game decisions so that killers can have more fun.
this u?
try again, and read the post this time
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@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428633#Comment_3428633
alas most of the "suggestions" to "fix" tunneling or slugging involve punishing killers, or buffing survivors. instead of making not tunneling more rewarding than tunneling
Yeah bc those are the only things that would actually fix tunneling 🤨
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@Sylhiri said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428647#Comment_3428647
I would ask a nerf to both killer and survivor. You would need a massive reward incentive to shift away from tunneling because it's easy to do and has game changing potential.
Same bc the game is actually balanced rn just not fun if you want to win bc you're forced to swf, play a top tier killer, use top tier perks, tunnel, genrush, etc
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428633#Comment_3428633
At this point you're asking for a massive nerf to Killers.
Hardly any Killer main would complain if the general gameplay flow would be shifted to reward spreading hooks over tunneling, but if you demand that a solution to a problem feld only by Survivors is paid for exclusivly out of the Killers pockets, you shouldn't be suprised if Killers point out that they don't want to pay for your fun.
Also lol I have every reason to be surprised when killers point out they don't play for my fun because I never asked them to! It's concerning that there's more than zero ppl proving my exact point so precisely lmao
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@Spectralfx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428355#Comment_3428355
if you want to address nurse being OP, "bring a a flashlight" isn't an option as you don't know before hand who you'll face.
its a silly mechanic that has no counter play from the killer's perpective and its honestly one of the best call they made in a while.
if you want to cherry pick that hard I'll agree that Nurse and Spirit (featuring a certain addon) may have not care so much about it, but every other killers outside of that are cheering as its finally a torn off their side in a meta that really does not favor them already.
To say it had no counterplay just isn't true, well either it did or it didn't but it didn't matter or it was hag/wraith breaking a pallet, even wraith in general had easy counterplay to it
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428633#Comment_3428633
At this point you're asking for a massive nerf to Killers.
Hardly any Killer main would complain if the general gameplay flow would be shifted to reward spreading hooks over tunneling, but if you demand that a solution to a problem feld only by Survivors is paid for exclusivly out of the Killers pockets, you shouldn't be suprised if Killers point out that they don't want to pay for your fun.
There is no solution to a problem felt only by survivors that wouldn't be paid out of killers' pockets, making spreading hooks more viable and doing nothing to make tunneling less viable is about as effective as politely asking killers to stop. As long as tunneling is an easy way to win most games killers will do it, the idea that giving killers nothing but buffs will solve tunneling is just wrong
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
The problem is that "Wow tunneling is really unfun, I wish the devs did something to make it less viable" still boils down to "Punish Killers for doing what is simply the "right" course of action", so you obviously won't get many Killer mains agreeing with you.
A better point would be "Wow tunneling is really unfun, I wish the devs did something to make not doing it more viable"
If they punished killers for tunneling it wouldn't be the right course of action tho would it?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428516#Comment_3428516
The old plan was : buff solo to be closer to SWF. They massively did that with the hud changes.
Step two was buff killers - but we likely wont get that part of the plan.
Step two was partially done in 6.1.0 tbf, emphasis on partially
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@DBDVulture said:
Killers camp and tunnel because survivors tunnel out generators. Removing gen defense perks made it worse because killers lost a huge amount of control in the game.
You cant ask for killers to not tunnel until survivors cant either.
but ill say im not asking for killers not to tunnel lol im asking for the devs to make killers not want to tunnel this was the whole point of the damn post!!!!
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the point of this post rlyyyy wasnt to discuss tunneling, just used it as an example for what i was tryna say, but wtv go ahead ig
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@MimiDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428360#Comment_3428360
Or some people just don't agree with you. It's ok nothing to get all bent over (Don't say your not). Tunneling and camping need to go for game health totally agree but it's a dev problem and personally don't think it's high on their list unfortunately. I'm an old school breed who has a hard time even camping in end game but I still find solo the more chill and relaxed role. Not saying what so ever killer is harder I just find it to be a chore I am no longer interested in. I'm getting off topic so...
I support the removal of tunneling and camping but it will require buffs to lower tier killers. People can tell me till they are blue in the face they can win all day without tunneling/camping/slugging but truth is that's just piss poor matchmaking sorry to tell ya.
Ofc but that doesnt mean ppl that want the game to be easy for them dont exist lol
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428468#Comment_3428468
I'd want to know how this tests out with the 27(ish) other killers. Just because 10% of the killers can be around 60% doesn't mean the other 90% of killers aren't worth considering.
Nurse is busted and no one is arguing against that.
Blight same thing
Spirit is a little more debatable but is more often agreed to be busted as well
Oh don't get me wrong I agree I don't think trapper doesn't need to be buffed just bc nurse exists lol, but you could say the same thing about perks for both sides and items yk
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428443#Comment_3428443
I'd say those numbers aren't representative of most killers. Using nurse, blight, and spirit isn't a good representation of the standard experience of killers. The data used is also several years old so I don't find that information to be that helpful . I think the game is survivor sided but not so much so that killers should just give up etc.
Well u said the best setups for both sides, for killer that means nurse blight or spirit. Also the data I'm talking about is their own from matches in customs that took place very recently, not the data bhvrs put out there
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428437#Comment_3428437
I'm serious. Why should killers purposely make bad game decisions, so that games are more fun for survivors..... if survivors aren't expected to make any bad game decisions so games are more fun for killers?
Where is the list of things survivors should avoid doing, because they are unfun for killers?
You're proving the entire point I was making w the post XD
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428412#Comment_3428412
Agreed. Just because games don't typically play out this way doesn't mean it can't happen. I think if you went all out best setups for both sides (swf too) survivors win much more often than killer does
just curious, what would u say to the video i put above? pretty clearly shows both sides absolutely sweating their balls off with the absolute best resources and resulted in a 60% kill rate
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Why should killers purposely make bad game decisions, so the games are more fun for survivors? What bad game decisions will survivors pledge on doing, so the games are more fun for killers?
you're joking right?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJUTxy5hQa8
considering that dbd generally gets more killer sided as the experience of players gets lower, and that this video imo shows its balanced at the highest of high levels, its killer sided imo. either side totally has the option to bring the strongest, sweatiest, dirtiest things and play in such a way as well
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like when someone tells me "free health state bad free distance good" (despite them being the exact same thing given the context) or "hit and run is hard" like idk how im meant to take them seriously but i do honestly try :)
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428308#Comment_3428308
From what I've seen from you're post I think you're very biased. There are plenty of people who want a good "balance" on both sides. Sure, there are some who don't but I do honesty believe they are in the minority.
like i try to see different perspectives but i wont lie its already kinda hard and it doesnt help when ppl just say totally untrue or just rude things, but when theyre not it can be p cool and i could have my mind changed maybe to some degree
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428360#Comment_3428360
Bit rich considering your last post to me.
cuz idk what to tell u rly we just have different perspectives on the community lol, ig i could say like i try not to be biased but some things in particular i j cannot understand how they can be defended
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3428353#Comment_3428353
Listen, never use that image, ever again.
Use this
rin :)