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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025022#Comment_3025022
unfortunately we cannot let people with disabilities hold the game back.
Disastrously, we can discriminate them and not let them relish their game. It's so pitiful that nobody complained about SC until today. How humorous and comical.
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@Emeal said:
Spine Chill is one of the most abuseable perks in this game. Its a blessing that bHVR finally gets around to it.
It's blessing it screws over people with hearing problems.
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@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024870#Comment_3024870
Holy crap, you think the DS nerf is absolutely vain? You are literally out of your mind, how the hell was DS after exit gates are open fun and fair for anyone at all?
You're clearly one of those people who abused the hell out of Spine Chill and DS all the time.
Not sure if you played at that time, but sometime when the Hexy's tournament was estabilished, there was a bug with DS, when some killers got stunned, it gave them 3 seconds stun, instead of 5. It made DS absolutely useless, because Spirit outchased them immediately. Why is it being changed currently to something, that was fixed before?
I'm so saddened, that you are accusing me of abusing Spine Chill, while I have hearing issues. You can try playing the game without sound, or with 10-15%. I will see, who "abused" Spine Chill more.
Another fun fact is that I never used DS in my life in high MMR games. Thank you for your response.
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@fulltonon said:
Nerfed? it's rework, we can't be sure if it's weaker than old one.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024863#Comment_3024863
That's certainly not the problem of a perk, it's basegame issue which should be fixed WITHOUT perks.
I couldn't agree more. Hearing issues shouldn't be relied by perks. What I think is that Spine Chill was easily attainable, which made it sort of "base-kit", but at the same time, I cannot enjoy this game anymore, because I don't know if the killer is forthcoming or not.
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I'm not sure what's the matter here? Survivors got nerfed drastically, making DS, Spine Chill, BT, Self-Care absolutely vain, with addition of Iron Will currently being nerfed as well, as it ravaged the whole point of not making any noise.
Killers got buffed mightily, they have received a lot of buffs, some changes barely making any difference (such as PTGWL, BBQ, Ruin (Ruin being not nerfed at all, only the speed of regress, it is now a tunnel prevention)). This will not only make kill-rate increased, but also lower the amount of stealthy survivors, because at the present time, it's virtually unimaginable to be stealthy survivor. All it did was establish another generation of flashlight Neas, and make some people leave.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330380/new-spine-chill-change
Both survivors and killer perks took a hit,so its fair for both sides to have their meta perks nerfed.
I personally believe spine chill made you feel way too safe,and the perks is still worth using.
It made me feel way too safe? No... It just made me delight the game, because I have hearing altercation. I scarcely can hear Trapper from 6m away.
Killer perks did not get hit as much as Survivor perks did. They hadn't received any big changes, only altering some unhealthy playstyles, which for Survivors wasn't JUST altering unhealthy playstyles, but making it extremely unfun.
PGTWL didn't get any hit fundamentally, because now it does 22.5% damage instead of 25. Ruin is still as efficacious, just prevents you from tunneling. Corrupt seems still sane, because people will find another gen to spend time on rather than waiting out the Corrupt, which can result in early downs. Tinkerer seems rational, because the perk was noxious for quite a long time. If we compare it with SC, which was often misused, I agree, but still frequently used for helping people with actual flaws.
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I'd rather get some worthless charm rather than getting post-game icon. While I understand they want to cleanse the economy and start with something contemporary, but this seems like a spit in our face for keeping this game active (for the little of us who decided to stay after 5 years of continuous bad decisions).
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@Veinslay said:
I was literally making a joke about how everytime a killer gets nerfed there's a whole bunch of survivors on the forum going "this nerf is barely anything, all the skilled Deathslingers won't even notice! The bad ones need to play Trickster! The really good Spirits won't even be impacted, the terrible ones will have to pick Wraith" etc.
That being said, SC was busted and survivor takes barely any skill in this game in general
While you have a point, I have never done that. This game is contestably survivor-sided, but I wasn't aiming to abuse the perk, just conquer my hearing issues, which made me scarcely hear TR or things affiliated with it.
I understand, that killer mains may like these changes, specifically Nurse mains, Spirit mains, because it was perk that helped countering them, but this change is no virtuous - Stealthy killers are not countered, because they oblige LoS to stalk. Other killers, such as Pig or so who do not need LoS may get a little help, but they aren't flimsy just solely in view of the fact that SC exists.
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It's the same as colourblind people. They also had to wait over 4 years for changes, because apparently it will make "advantages" to people without that issue. I'm not sure why should we not do the same for people with hearing problems.
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@Veinslay said:
All the skilled survivor mains won't even notice the change to Spine Chill it's such a small nerf. Only players that can barely do anything besides M1 and need the game to force feed them all information will be hurt, they'll need to move to premonition
I'm sorry that I have hearing problems that I cannot alter! Now, I can't even hear Trapper unless he is 6m away from me. Thank you for putting me into the box of crying people.
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I couldn't agree more! I don't even register, that there are keys anymore. The point is completely invalidated, because the main purpose of opening the hatch was wrecked.
The second reason people often bringed keys was because of aura reading, especially the one that uncovered the killer. I think, that addon is one of the strongest ones for a reason, but if keys don't have their number one practicality, it annihilates the whole point. Motivating people to use keys more often, while still perserving the right to unlock the hatch (because I don't see the point having that withdrawn, since it's no longer required to be altered).
I can see more pros than cons, and I genuinely think that involving keys more is going to be wonderful.
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@lemonsway said:
Spinechill was a very valuable low effort Perk. High value = High Awareness with ample time and distance to react + vault speed for the low effort of simply having it equiped.
It completly destroys a killers aproach, it completly denies any possibility of stealth via Killer Power or via Perk. How can Stalk killers stalk if stalking requires a line of sight, said line of sight triggered SPinechill so how were Stalk killers able to stalk if looking that way immediatly gave them away?
Spinechill needed the changes. I'd simply nerf it's range to maybe 16 meters and get rid of the vault speed. The 32 meter awareness was the real issue.
You should read my previous comment, where I addressed the issue with stalking killers - it makes them equally flimsy. For the change you insinuated, I agree.
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@AJ_Clicks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023623#Comment_3023623
I'd love to know your build with Sadako if you wouldn't mind.
Any tips would be appreciated also! 😁
Not sure if I'm just blessed, or something. I don't really attempt to master her, but yet I still always have 3k/4k with build Call of Brine, PGTWL, Eruption, BBQ. For addons, I don't run anything explicit, but it's ordinarily the addon that makes them have their tape to the generator that is furthermost away, and speed addon.
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@Sandt21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330380/new-spine-chill-change
This change was completely needed. No single perk should completely destroy stealth killers with no negative cost whatsoever for the spine chill user
Do you know what will I say on this? It will now annihilate ONLY stealthy killers. They oblige LoS to stalk, which means you will still be able to discern them. For normal killers, it's just another day, another slay.
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To be fair, I think Sadako doesn't demand any power buff/nerf. She is fine the way she is, at least for me she works immaculately, virtually every single game I play with her. I didn't see any struggle with her, and my MMR is high, compared to standard.
I think her "special mori" is quite peculiar, because I haven't had my hands on it either. I don't even take it as a part of kit any longer, because it doesn't feel that way anymore. To my mind, remodeling this thing could potentially make it ameliorate, but she is not a colossal problem for Dead by Daylight in this precise instant.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023591#Comment_3023591
I just like the change. I rarely used it but it looks like it will still be a good perk.
Why? The perk has no usefulness, because it will only dawdle, which allows it to have lots of false-positives, such as Premonition, making it feeble perk.
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@Nathan13 said:
I think the spine chill change is good.
Could you give further amplification on why you think that? I'd like to gather opinions, but made on some substructure.
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@RakimSockem said:
I'm literally just going to go through the Dev updates in order so it could be a little lengthy. Also while I am a "survivor main", I do play a decent amount of killer as well. That said, I'm going to tackle the base game changes and then move on to the perks. (tl;dr I agree with most of the changes, but found a few to be very questionable)
Generator speeds - I agree that gens were able to be completed too fast in many cases and made perks like Corrupt or Ruin relatively essential. Depending on what killer I played, I often used one or the other. With both of those being nerfed, adding more gen time is a fair exchange. However, they needed to address camping better while making that change which I don't feel they did in a good way and I'll get to that later with the perks.
Killers increased speed on gen kicks, breaking walls, and recovering from successful attacks. This is good for killers all around but sadly makes the "gods" even more powerful (aka Nurse and Blight). It's going to be interesting (boring) to see how quickly THOSE chases end.
"Camping and tunneling" - Tunneling was certainly addressed with a lot of the changes and perks (especially Off the Record) although the base kit 5 second BT means literally nothing in a dead zone when killers have already been willing to wait out the current 8-12 seconds of current BT. Camping was not addressed in the slightest
BBQ nerf - Grind being reduced, fair nerf
Hex Ruin nerf - Fair nerf. It's meant to be an early game perk in the same way Corrupt is. The perk deactivating after a kill means either A: you're in the late game and shouldn't have the perk anymore or B: you hard tunneled someone out the game with 4 or 5 gens still up in which case you don't deserve the perk and I feel no sympathy for your playstyle
Pop nerf - I feel it's always been too strong anyway. 25% is a lot of progress, especially when you're 99% on the gen and get pulled or chased off. Only going down to 20%. Deserved and fair
Corrupt nerf - Probably nerfed a little too hard. I feel like they could've just reduced the timer to 90 seconds tops instead of 2 minutes. I've seen games with very early downs (literally 30 seconds into the match). The fact that your perk can be removed that quickly because you did an amazing job and finding and downing a survivor seems pretty lame.
Tinkerer nerf - Thank god. Deserved. That perk should have never been allowed to go off multiple times for the same gen
NOED nerf - they could've given it an expanding noise radius instead of an aura reveal. That way even when the survivors hear it, they still have to look for it instead of it being shown to them.
Scourge Hook Pain Res nerf - another one I'm happy to see and glad they removed the survivor scream
Dead Hard - Distance removed. That's what everyone asked for (yet people are still upset??). Fair nerf. I've never used Dead Hard so I don't care tbh
DS nerf - Deactivating when the gates are powered sucks if you haven't been caught all game and don't get to use your perk. The nerf from 5 to 3 seconds was wildly unnecessary. This perk has been nerfed too many times at this point and I'm saying that as someone who doesn't even use it.
BT - When stacked with the basekit changes, grants pretty much the same power it had before with a few extra seconds at tier 3. I don't feel one way or the other about it
Iron Will nerf- Don't use it, don't care. But I understand the logic that someone who got smacked by a weapon shouldn't be able to remain completely silent so fair I guess.
Self care nerf- How the hell did this get nerfed AGAIN??? It's been bad for multiple patches now and they somehow felt it needed another nerf. I guess they want people to use CoH??
Spine chill nerf - The only nerf this needed was to not work for undetectable killers. That's it. This whole line of sight thing is dumb, especially on indoor maps where you never have line of sight on anything and as many community members have point out, this hurt deaf and hard of hearing players the most
Non-meta perks
Overcharge buff - STUPID STRONG. Probably intentionally so that people pick it over Pop or other current gen regression meta
Eruption buff - Don't see it often but I guess that's fair?
Knock out buff - Unnecessary and hurts solo survivors more than anyone else
Coulrophobia buff- ???? okay i guess
Dark Devotion buff - Fair buff. Probably still won't get used
Jolt buff - Going to be very strong on killers who excel at slugging or getting multiple quick downs.
Lethal pursuer buff - Actually kind of a cool buff as it helps BBQ and other aura reading perks
SH Gift of Pain buff - Never see it. Don't even know what it does tbh.
Thanatophobia buff - Unnecessary and a pain in the ass, especially when playing a Legion or Plague. Do they want forever Freddy gen times back, because that's what it looks like they're moving towards
SH Monstrous Shrine rework - Kinda cool, anyone who uses it will probably just proxy camp tho
Calm Spirit "buff" (nerf) - ######### were they thinking putting a reduced speed to chests and totems on this. So if I'm nowhere near the killer and I just happen across a totem I want to cleanse or bless, I have a harder time doing it now because of a perk I CHOSE to put on????
Saboteur buff - I am very biased here because I use Saboteur on every build. YES! A+ buff
Botany knowledge buff - Good buff. Might even replace we'll make it in my builds.
Off the record buff - God tier during EGC, still avg at any other point in the game. You have to remember that the effect immediately gets cancelled if they do ANYTHING towards progressing the game. So if you somehow manage to activate that endurance effect 70 seconds after they've been unhooked, it means they've been doing nothing for 70 seconds or you've been tunneling them for that long and were unable to catch them in which case you deserve it.
Lucky break buff - Good buff. Needed a recharge mechanic
Pharmacy - sucks that you have to be injured to use it but at least it works on more than one chest now (assuming they weren't all looted before you need the perk so..... maybe a nerf if you don't need it until late game?
Sole survivor buff - Okay. Still not going to get used
Distortion buff - Long overdue. Needed a recharge mechanic
Lightweight buff - I'm guessing it's a typo that they said the scratch marks fade 5/4/3 seconds sooner. It should be the other way around from tier 1 to tier 3
Deja Vu buff - experienced players still won't use it but that's good for newbies
No One Left Behind buff - Adding the haste effect is perfect. Still won't get used
Dark Sense buff?? - The fact that the perk deactivates after use and is only a one time use is tragically bad
Tenacity buff - Good buff to punish slugging
Hope buff - Endgame perk, good that they removed the time limit
Overzealous buff - Snooze. A perk that makes gens faster is boring in general
WGLF - With botany knowledge being buffed, WGLF healing downed people faster is a boring and useless effect and only matters if people get slugged in the first place. Still adding the endurance buff is cool I guess
That's it. Thank you for anyone who bothered reading all of that and I'm sure someone is likely to disagree so I'm interested in people's opinions.
I like the idea on the NOED perk, but it can't really be executed. Many people have hearing problems, permitting this perk change will notably make it worse. For example I didn't even know that hex totems made any sound, until a year ago.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023463#Comment_3023463
Expecting killers to moonwalk 37 meters every time they want to approach a generator is terrible. How would you like it if killers got a perk where the survivor counterplay was moonwalking 37 meters every time they want to approach a hooked survivor? We could say "it has counterplay! You could just moonwalk to every hooked survivor if you don't want the killer to be alerted!"
You are taking words from my mouth. I didn't say it's the ONLY counter-play, but it's a possible way on how to counter it. Often times it's good.
You are also missing the point, that this Spine Chill won't deal with stealthy killers at all, because they have to have LoS while stalking you, at least stalking killers.
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@WeenieDog said:
At least oblivious and undetectable perks and addons aren't made useless by one single perk.
This could have been addressed by just simply making it so it doesn't work on perks that alters your TR. Mayhap make it just within the TR, but add it to the ash-heap of other perks that are used just for getting Adept achievement, which Spine Chill can't be used for that sole intent, because it's not a teachable? Comical.
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@Emeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3023463#Comment_3023463
Yeah, I cant believe moonwalking didn't catch on. Could it be, you literally have to approach not knowing where to go.
How about No thanks to that?=
You are talking as every single player is utilizing Spine Chill. All right, could you please play 5 games for me and screenshot endgame screen? I'd like to see how many players with Spine Chill will you meet right now.
You seem to UTTERLY miss the whole point I'm creating. You think that my anger towards this change is because I abused the perk. Tragically, no. We are trying to find a settlement, which is what you are repudiating to do for the past two comments you've made.
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@DBD78 said:
This might be only me but I wanted all meta perks killed like Spine Chill was. And so many other perks buffed. The game really need the shift in meta on both sides.
I don't see how Spine Chill was META? I have never seen in high MMR Spine Chill being ran, or very rarely. Those survivors usually weren't good and probably didn't play it as much as their teammates. Spine Chill is nowhere near META, now made into an impractical perk, which totally destroys the idea of awareness.
Meta for the last couple years was running Spine Chill AND Resilience, but that's not solely Spine Chill. If they had depleted the effect of speed vaulting, it would absolutely curtail the usage of this perk.
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@Emeal said:
Spin Chill became a perk which told you at any point if the killer was coming for you. Surely you see how thats bad?
This is not true. Any killer could moonwalk into you once upon detected that you have Spine Chill. Also, many times it gives you false-positives and it's sometimes hard. Often you don't even know which direction the killer is approaching you from. I'm not saying to let the perk be in the state it was, but make it so the effect is not mitigated completely. If we have more and more useless perks, the meta will probably be perks that barely do anything.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020911#Comment_3020911
There are more cues to Nurse that you are missing. The edge case that helps you is if she is running perks that hide the terror radius. Otherwise you shouldn't be getting caught offguard against a Nurse.
I don't get your way of thinking, but if it's your opinion, then sure, I won't attempt to alter it.
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People do not realise, that in order for a perk to be META, it doesn't have to be necessarily strong. For example Spine Chill filled the purpose of META, because it was used quite a lot, but wasn't necessarily a strong perk. It didn't have as much utility against normal killers, but to stealthy killers, it was a nightmare. Self-Care was META for solo survivors pretty often, but I'm not sure I quite understand the nerf. Self-Care is not strong in any matters. Decisive Strike is also not as strong as it was, if we compare the history. It's now anti-tunnel, and if you do not do objectives to keep your DS, you are simply wasting your time - against a normal killer, DS is useless and right now, even more.
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@Mr_K said:
No, they buffed stealth killers. If perk changes are to be consider buffs to individual killers.
You are looking on it just from one angle. Nurse has very little counters, but Spine Chill is one of them. You can see that she is blinking towards you from really far away and hide before she charges her blink fully and surprises you. While it may buff stealthy killers, it certainly buffed the top tier ones, as well as killers like Huntress.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
I used spine chill to mindlessly not pay attention and set up for optimal loops when the killer approached.
Honestly, it needed a nerf, but only against undetectable killers. It shouldn't have worked on stealth killers. Everyone else is free game.
The vault nerf is meh. I personally don't mind, but I see some people losing their minds over it.
I'll probably stop using it, but I only had it because I couldn't think of anything else I wanted in that slot. With all the changes, I suppose I'll find something
Fair enough, I surely agree. Undetectable killers are too altercated by the perk, which could make unhealthy habit of bringing Spine Chill. I'm sure, that some people did it just to sit on generators, but people like me used it to genuinely have fun and have the ability to enjoy the game while detecting killers efficiently.
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@Tryharder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020445#Comment_3020445
Not really, you play this game long enough maps are predictable and you will know which direction the killer can sneak up on you. Spine chill was just a free head start against any killer
I'm sorry, but I have hearing altercation, as already aforesaid. I do not hear TR properly and running Spine Chill for me is a must-need. Just because you don't have to, doesn't mean I don't have to either.
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@DwarvenTavern said:
Been awhile since I was last in the forums, but yeah... Spine Chill got butchered.
I was looking forward for a nerf, but not like this. Stealth killers shouldn't get punished for using their power, so it shouldn't reveal people who are actively stealthed.
But, geez. It didn't need to be gutted that hard. I say just remove the ability to reveal a killer who's stealthed and keep everything else the same.
I say killers who have the ability to stealth shouldn't be revealed with Spine Chill, but stuff that just occasionally snuffs out a killer's terror radius should be affected. That way its just not stupidly annoying for people who are hard of hearing as well
Couldn't agree more! I have trouble hearing the terror radius myself. I don't have any headset and my hearing is altered. I simply cannot do much, makes me enjoy the game less and potentially makes it unplayable for me. Spine Chill was a must-pick in each build I ran.
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@Mattie_MayhemOG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020456#Comment_3020456
No one is forcing you to change your build. You can choose whatever perks you want. Spine Chill made stealth killers ineffective so I am glad they made the change.
Yes, they are. My build is focused about awareness of where my teammates are (Bond) along with general knowledge when the killer is approaching (Spine Chill) so I can adapt. The perk does not have any gamebreaking utility, I have never seen people complaining about it, and you can barely see people running Spine Chill, in tournaments nearly never.
My build is entirely focused on Spine Chill and things that synergizes with it, right now, when I switch it with another perk, such as Kindred, it will not have the same purpose. I can choose whatever perks I want, but none of them are my cup of tea, without Spine Chill. That perk basically made me enjoy this game a LOT, made me more productive and honestly would potentially make me quit the game once upon the perk is basically deleted from the game, like right now.
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@amazing_grace said:
Yeah, they somehow made Premonition better than Spine Chill with giving information. Although, it seems that BHVR main goal was to make people switch up their builds, and it seems like it's working. Whether it's working for good or bad reasons is yet to be determined.
The point is I don't want to switch my build. My build is nowhere near S-Tier build, it's a casual build, that synergizes well with each perk that I have there. I don't run any S-Tier perk, except perhaps Spine Chill and BT, which I often change for Prove Thyself or Botany Knowledge. In my opinion, making me change my build will not help me and make me enjoy the game more.
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@Wondertainment said:
There are people who enjoy doing generators? Are they the same people who enjoy doing their taxes? It had some kind of meditative effect on them? :) Generators are a job. The only tension that comes from doing them is having to look around and worry about the Killer. Spine Chill (and I run it regularly too) eliminates that as you always know when you have to move.
Granted, I'm not sure the way they fixed it is the best one. I think it should simply have not worked on Killers with no current Terror Radius (for whatever reason) unless said Killer had direct line of sight. However, I'm not the Dev and will have to playtest the new version first to see what I think.
This may not be correct. You still have to look around, to know where the killer is approaching from. You can hide, but where, if you don't know the direction? Spine Chill is the best counter for stealthy killers and oppressive killers. I don't mind looking around me, but sometimes, you have to have the best headset to play this game to hear all the sounds. For me, it's weird, because I don't own any headset and SC makes it easier for me.
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I'd argue that Hag fits even in the top 3 killers. Any further buff would make her crazy. People do not play her, because she seems boring, her playstyle is slow and constant repairing of web is not for everyone. You can make crazy builds with her, but people usually stick with other killers, that are easier and a little bit more fun. However, fun area is a spectrum and I won't argue about that.
For reference, you can take a look at Hag main Michi - https://www.youtube.com/c/MichiDBD_Michi.
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Let's break it down - Nurse is a killer, that ignores every single obstacle that survivor can use against her. She is a killer, that you cannot play against like you do against other killers. You have to calculate her distance of blink, attempt to predict. Any nerf she could have would potentially make her either useless or not change her at all. Rework is also not a great idea, because Nurse mains often invest a lot of time to master her, which would piss off a large amount of experienced community, including some coaches, or even perhaps streamers that actually help the game.
Nurse has been around for quite a long time, she has the worst statistics, but the best chase potential. Only change I'd do to her is to probably rework her ability to get burnt to make it easier, which could make her weak against Flashlights, Fireworks or some perks. I genuinely think, that besides that, there is nothing else to change. She is tremendously hard to master, there is no way you are going to do that in a period of one month and the time investment to her is enormous.
The math of going up against Nurse is also low, because she doesn't have the highest pickrate. Even at higher MMR, I have seen more Trappers than Nurses, which is interesting to my eyes. Rarely have I seen a Nurse and when I did, she wasn't that strong to kill all of us at 5 gens. Keep in mind that you have to know how to play against her and it is almost as hard as learning how to play Nurse herself.
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The Cannibal doesn't have any chase power. Some people could argue, that his saw makes him faster, but he is penalised for charging the weapon, which is approximately the same distance he would go normally. If he decides to camp, you have to do generators. In the worst case scenario, two people should die, because the amount of time he wastes by camping is enormous.
His another weakness is long wall loops, which for many maps is a huge problem. Another weakness is closed maps or maps with narrowed corridor. He is also normal 4.6 m/s killer, which makes him not so good in map control due to the weakness of travelling (compared to fe. Hillbilly, who can travel really quickly).
You also mentioned he can use his chainsaw with no penalty. This is quite wrong, because he gets penalty for bumping into obstacles for a long time, he also cannot use his chainsaw for a long time if he uses all his charges. You also mentioned "he can kill the four survivors"... Well, that's normal as any other killer can. You seem like a beginner being angry at a killer, that you do not know how to counter, but trust me, once you get better at this game, you will be glad if you face The Cannibal and won't take it so competitively.
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That's the point of HEX: perks. You are getting into a lottery, where you will get a powerful perk, but with the additional thing you have to account for - it can be cleansed. Transfering them into basic perks will result in arguably unhealthy experience. This is the same as proposing for BOON: totems to be setuped at the start of the game and not being able to be snuffed by the killer. How bad does it sound?
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@xRam40I9 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721413#Comment_2721413
The point is you said he's very strong, should be able to beat survs with the strongest stuff. Right?
That's not true. Not even Nurse or Spirit can beat people with the strongest stuff, that's why in competitive there are banned items, perks.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720030#Comment_2720030
I'm sorry, but you are just straight up wrong here.
- It's still pretty sus. If you really are that experienced, I don't see how you could hold some of these opinions. I have my own suspicions here, but I'll keep them to myself.
- BNP is still extremely strong. Where has the usage dropped down? I'd love to see your numbers, because I still see it plenty.
- ...No, that's not how CoH works. Firstly, CoH has a huge range and survivors will try to put it in an upstairs area or somewhere hard to snuff. You absolutely can heal with it mid chase, you can get the heal down to 4 seconds or thereabouts.
- I still see OoO being used when I play, and when top level streamers play you see it too. The reason you don't see it as much is that it's no longer permanent maphacks for a SWF and there are tons of survivor perks that are better than it.
- Nurse is irrelevant to this discussion. This entire game is not balanced around one killer. That's like saying 'this game is killer sided because of Alchemist's Ring). Again, go watch Otz's video on this, he breaks this down pretty perfectly.
- Just because something was broken before doesn't mean it's not still imbalanced now.
- 'Insane nerf' implies that it's bad. If something gets an 'insane nerf' and is still very good, then it probably needed an insaner nerf. You don't see BL as much any more because of the Dead Hard buff.
- Yes, things change all the time. Keys were honestly long overdue. I really don't get what you are complaining about.
Finally - if you want to disagree with one of the most well known and experienced players of the game, then you'll need to do better than 'hes wrong because I sed so'. He wasn't speaking subjectively. He was speaking from thousands and thousands of hours of killer play time, numbers provided by the developers and consultation with other experienced players.
Not going to breakdown your points, because little do they make sense. Very hard to make a point on person that kicks around himself just because you disagree with one point and forms something called "personal problems" where you merely disagree with one statement and tries to flamedown all. For the suspicion, I don't give a damn about your suspicion. I know many competitive player not using forum, because after they published one forum post, this is what they get - a total flame like you did for their opinion. Just because YOU can't deal with totems doesn't mean nobody can and this is not a game where developers will dance how you sing. Also, I don't really care about Otzdarva's opinions, I had enough when I have seen his survivor gameplay where he flamed his teammates in the ultimate survivor challenge.
Lastly, you are not "one of the most well known and experienced players in the game", sadly to hold this title you'd have to be known by many people, and quite frankly when I asked some very known names, nobody had clue who the hell are you. Just because you are active in the forum, doesn't mean you hold a famous title.
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While yes, I agree in some parts that Dead Hard deserves some change, because the perk is completely unfun to go against, mainly if you are a newer killer and you face 4 DeadHards, when you finally think you will catch him and he uses his DH. I'm not using DH for this exact reason, it's just not fun to go against it and I reckon it's much better and healthier to use some other exhaustions.
In my opinion, DH effect should remain, but maybe with additional thing that you cannot drop pallets, vault or so for like 3 seconds. While this is not a tremendous change, it's still something that would change DH to be used more to dodge hits and not to gain distance and you will be forced to think about when you use it or if you will need to use it early.
Losing invulnerability will not change most scenarios, as people swing for it after it is casted most of the time.
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How could you measure what is "toxic" based on your killer preference? I guess I am toxic for playing my favourite killer and survivor. What a laugh
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This is extremely bad idea:
- Stamina? So basically all mechanics we've learnt throughout 5 years will be gone just to implement "stamina"? Loops are nowhere near powerful, some are, some setups can be but you are supposed to eliminate the setups and nerf those loops and not to make some stamina which doesn't even make sense
- This is unhealthy for game and will result in something called "Shift W" gaming. People should be encouraged to use loops more, rather than just holding W
To summarise, this is an idea presumably made by Epic Games player, who invested solid 10 hours to the game and saw that he gets tbagged as Nurse while not using any blinks.
@Bwsted said:
Killers are already faster than survivors. In DbD, the stamina bar already exists and it's called exhaustion.
I think he meant that it will slow you down after certain time, so you will no longer be able to run, but walk - which is stupid.
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@FreshCoal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720771#Comment_2720771
Pinhead is not very strong, as if he is beating your "high mmr coordinated swf", then you and your teammates are bad at the game. Those perks are decent on him, not the best. Stop complaining and learn how to counter it.
I don’t think you’ve understand what I am trying to imply. Nobody is complaining, rather forming a discussion about annoyance from this build. I played against this only twice, all matches we won, but it’s worth to mention that the map was on our side as well as other factors.
@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302225/cenobite-issue
....Nerfing already iffy perks cause of One killer?
That's something new...
You’re not nerfing the functionality of the perk, rather changing the possible unintentionallity. The perk is very underrated.
@xRam40I9 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720771#Comment_2720771
I wanna see this ultra strong pinhead, would you mind playing against my 4 stack? Since he's super strong we should be able to bring the best stuff and you should at least 3k.
As I’m not a killer main, 3k on “4 stack” with comms is very bold statement from you. I would be down for that, with some rules inside.
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720771#Comment_2720771
He's mediocre at best, and so are Franklin's and Hoarder. Y'all are saying things are problematic which never see play at high level.
This means that you shouldn’t change stuff just because something isn’t played often at the highest MMR? Most people play at lower MMR and it’s not just because they are bad, rather it’s because that this MMR system is bad
@CleanseThis said:
Legion is arguably stronger than pinhead
Legion is a M1 killer with basically no power.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2720771#Comment_2720771
Pinhead is not strong.
Would you rather those two perks be replaced with more gen slowdown? It thought we wanted MORE perk variety, not less.
Pinhead is very strong.
Gen Slowdown is useless, it’s better to have map pressure perks or utility perks. Not a valid argument in my opinion.
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@Pulsar said:
Hoarder is okay on Pinhead.
Franklin's is kinda meh.
Why you would want to nerf two already bad perks on a bad Killer, idk.
I don’t think you’ve read my whole post. These two perks combined are evil on Pinhead. Pinhead is also not a bad killer, he is certainly very strong.
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Hello!
Going to address multiple things being said here:
- Facecamping is not an effective strategy if survivors are smart enough. Of course, you may say that if you are solo queue, this is generally useless and you cannot help them coordinate, but even then it's possible that they will take all the time he is camping, split up and make up to 5 generators by just his mistake - facecamping.
- If it's not an instadown killer, you can for sure very easily rescue the survivor. This is generally advised when all generators are powered or he is going into second stage/dying
- If you are facecamping, you will get one or two survivors (if the survivors are good) which will result in less MMR points than normally. You also earn less bloodpoints if you are near proximity of hook.
Generally speaking, you cannot prevent facecamping anyhow. One idea is to make Kindred a basekit if the killer is being in 16 meter proximity for over 12 seconds, which would work technically even on Insidious as it would show up in Status HUD that you have Kindred effect and you'd see survivors, but not killer and change somehow Kindred. While yes, this is not the best option, it's generally something good to work with.
Arguments such as: "Well but I receive bad survivors"... You won't get facecamped each match and you won't get bad survivors all the time. Once you win matches and you are truly eligible to be at high MMR, you will remain there.
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@impulse_90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711586#Comment_2711586
If you bothered to read what I said you'd realise I was using the adept system as an example.
I stopped reading after you said boons are healthy for the game.
I'll give you an example of why they aren't. I had a game a week or so ago where the survivors healed 47 times throughout the game. That isn't balanced regardless of what you say.
@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711419#Comment_2711419
Mm.
- Bodyblocking can be a serious problem when combined with other perks or items in a coordinated group. These are outlier cases, but it shouldn't be possible to take a game hostage, and this can allow it.
- Flashlights are fine. Guaranteeing a flashlight save by jumping into a locker isn't. If these specific lockers can't be fixed (and the developers seem to have no interest in doing so), then flashlights as a whole may need a look.
- DS is fine, but it should be disabled if you jump into a locker. If I recall, this was supposed to happen but never did.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711586#Comment_2711586
What?
- Firstly, 7500 hours and this being your first forum post is a little sus.
- BNP is still very strong.
- You don't need instaheals when you can heal mid chase using CoH and a medkit.
- DS is still very strong if you abuse lockers. OoO is still an excellent perk - you just don't see it much because there are about 8 survivor perks which are crazy good.
- Maps...haha what? There are maybe 2 'killer sided' maps, about 7 'balanced' maps and the rest range from somewhat survivor sided to entirely survivor sided. Otz did a pretty detailed breakdown of this a while back.
- There are still some overly powerful loops, a few bordering on infinites.
- Balanced landing is still strong and sees plenty of use.
- DH got buffed.
- Hatch and keys had to be changed to allow SBMM to function properly.
You cannot pretend that the developers approach survivor and killer balance equitably. Haddonfield had an actual infinite until maybe a month ago, and it took years for OoO, DS and the like to get nerfed - and are still good perks. On the other hand, 'B' and 'C' tier killers like Wraith, Cenobite, Slinger, Twins and Billy all got huge, sweeping nerfs despite only one aspect of their kit being even slightly problematic.
A double standard isn't good for anyone, and only fosters frustration.
I'm remarkably pleasured to see how interestingly people can react.
- I'm not a person who is using forum, this place is a nightmare and people here are trolling
- BNP is not strong anymore, hence why the usage dropped down solidly
- You cannot heal midchase with CoH, because if it's within the range, you will hear it as a killer and snuff it most likely. Will you lose the chase? Maybe. But you will lose their precious time they could have spent on generators. More information can be also found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzeblKQSYN4&t=66s
- OoO is not an excellent perk, it is remarkably horrendous perk which nobody uses anymore. The aura reading is situational and won't apply in chase as you would intend to. It's also generally not useful to see the killer if you are on furthest generator, because you can hear the killer isn't anywhere close to you and stealth killers completely negate the effect. DS is still abusable, but not as abusable as before. Now, you don't activate it each game, hence why people no longer run it as much, but I never implied it's a bad perk
- If you say there are 2 killer-sided maps, you are generally not playing this game at all. All maps are dependant on the killer itself, for example you will be more than pleasured to see Coldwind map on Billy than Nurse. This argument is completely irrelevant.
- Very bold statement, you cannot negate "powerful loops" and make them balanced at all times. These loops have been drastically changed troughout the years regardless.
- Not as strong as it was previously, vividly didn't pay attention on what I implied.
- I have never mentioned a single point regarding DH, completely out of point and irrelevant. I have mentioned that Exhaustion perks have been nerfed globally.
- So what? It was changed, thus this argument is again irrelevant.
For the last arguments you've mentioned, I'm not even going to address them. Tierlists are tremendously subjective topic, hence why I am not going to address it.
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This is just a vivid "venting" made by a newbie killer. I have in this game for over 7500 hours and I have been playing this competitively too. While I may agree with a fact, that it's not always balanced as it should, but no, as Survivor you just cannot hide for the whole game and easily escape. Most of the time, you won't get solely carried by your teammates just to assure an escape, because if a one person is hiding, one person is getting chased and eventually will get downed and the two other ones are doing gens, one will eventually need to go for the save which will remarkably slow down the progress of generators and will result in a certain loss, unless the killer doesn't really know that to do.
Achievements DO NOT influence the outcome of the game and they shouldn't be taken in a perspective of getting changed. We are talking about the game balance and if you are solely ranting just about adept, then it's your fault. Bubba is one of the easiest adept you can receive, because of his strong perks.
Your rants here are purely made on survivors not getting nerfed, well, then you certainly don't know the past of this game. Let me introduce you into the past:
- Brand new part have been repeatedly nerfed, previously it was a thing, that could do one very bad thing: genrush
- Instaheals have been nerfed to basically useless state, both (purple one and pink one)
- Decisive Strike, Object of Obsession, they all have been nerfed to a state where they are really bad perks (DS is still powerful, but you can't abuse it unless you are literally being tunneled, while OoO is useless)
- Maps have been tremendously changed to a state, where they are mostly killer-sided
- Shack has been nerfed many times, as well as other powerful loops
- Balanced Landing - insane nerf with erasing passive it had
- Exhaustion perks - they have been nerfed so it no longer recovers while running
- Hatch - this change made keys basically useless without Blood Amber addon
... and I could name them five days how big nerfs survivors have received. Not to mention that solo queue is practically impossible unless you get good teammates and getting a tryharding SWF is very rare. Please, check your facts before doing such a post.
For the last paragraph I'm going to address boon totems - They are NOT broken and they are really good for the health of the game. Why? It gives survivors another objective to deal with, it takes 16 seconds to bless a totem, half more if it's a hex totem, healing costs 16 seconds and if it was hex, the survivor lost 48 seconds, if not, he lost 32 seconds. You can snuff the totem with very short animation and only thing that is questionable is the range and I think that's the only thing that should be sort of adjusted. Besides, boon totems are pretty good addition to the game and I'm a killer main. After their addition, I feel like the games are a lot easier, because I have better map pressure and control.