Thoughts on the upcoming changes (from a "Survivor main")
I'm literally just going to go through the Dev updates in order so it could be a little lengthy. Also while I am a "survivor main", I do play a decent amount of killer as well. That said, I'm going to tackle the base game changes and then move on to the perks. (tl;dr I agree with most of the changes, but found a few to be very questionable)
Generator speeds - I agree that gens were able to be completed too fast in many cases and made perks like Corrupt or Ruin relatively essential. Depending on what killer I played, I often used one or the other. With both of those being nerfed, adding more gen time is a fair exchange. However, they needed to address camping better while making that change which I don't feel they did in a good way and I'll get to that later with the perks.
Killers increased speed on gen kicks, breaking walls, and recovering from successful attacks. This is good for killers all around but sadly makes the "gods" even more powerful (aka Nurse and Blight). It's going to be interesting (boring) to see how quickly THOSE chases end.
"Camping and tunneling" - Tunneling was certainly addressed with a lot of the changes and perks (especially Off the Record) although the base kit 5 second BT means literally nothing in a dead zone when killers have already been willing to wait out the current 8-12 seconds of current BT. Camping was not addressed in the slightest
BBQ nerf - Grind being reduced, fair nerf
Hex Ruin nerf - Fair nerf. It's meant to be an early game perk in the same way Corrupt is. The perk deactivating after a kill means either A: you're in the late game and shouldn't have the perk anymore or B: you hard tunneled someone out the game with 4 or 5 gens still up in which case you don't deserve the perk and I feel no sympathy for your playstyle
Pop nerf - I feel it's always been too strong anyway. 25% is a lot of progress, especially when you're 99% on the gen and get pulled or chased off. Only going down to 20%. Deserved and fair
Corrupt nerf - Probably nerfed a little too hard. I feel like they could've just reduced the timer to 90 seconds tops instead of 2 minutes. I've seen games with very early downs (literally 30 seconds into the match). The fact that your perk can be removed that quickly because you did an amazing job and finding and downing a survivor seems pretty lame.
Tinkerer nerf - Thank god. Deserved. That perk should have never been allowed to go off multiple times for the same gen
NOED nerf - they could've given it an expanding noise radius instead of an aura reveal. That way even when the survivors hear it, they still have to look for it instead of it being shown to them.
Scourge Hook Pain Res nerf - another one I'm happy to see and glad they removed the survivor scream
Dead Hard - Distance removed. That's what everyone asked for (yet people are still upset??). Fair nerf. I've never used Dead Hard so I don't care tbh
DS nerf - Deactivating when the gates are powered sucks if you haven't been caught all game and don't get to use your perk. The nerf from 5 to 3 seconds was wildly unnecessary. This perk has been nerfed too many times at this point and I'm saying that as someone who doesn't even use it.
BT - When stacked with the basekit changes, grants pretty much the same power it had before with a few extra seconds at tier 3. I don't feel one way or the other about it
Iron Will nerf- Don't use it, don't care. But I understand the logic that someone who got smacked by a weapon shouldn't be able to remain completely silent so fair I guess.
Self care nerf- How the hell did this get nerfed AGAIN??? It's been bad for multiple patches now and they somehow felt it needed another nerf. I guess they want people to use CoH??
Spine chill nerf - The only nerf this needed was to not work for undetectable killers. That's it. This whole line of sight thing is dumb, especially on indoor maps where you never have line of sight on anything and as many community members have point out, this hurt deaf and hard of hearing players the most
Non-meta perks
Overcharge buff - STUPID STRONG. Probably intentionally so that people pick it over Pop or other current gen regression meta
Eruption buff - Don't see it often but I guess that's fair?
Knock out buff - Unnecessary and hurts solo survivors more than anyone else
Coulrophobia buff- ???? okay i guess
Dark Devotion buff - Fair buff. Probably still won't get used
Jolt buff - Going to be very strong on killers who excel at slugging or getting multiple quick downs.
Lethal pursuer buff - Actually kind of a cool buff as it helps BBQ and other aura reading perks
SH Gift of Pain buff - Never see it. Don't even know what it does tbh.
Thanatophobia buff - Unnecessary and a pain in the ass, especially when playing a Legion or Plague. Do they want forever Freddy gen times back, because that's what it looks like they're moving towards
SH Monstrous Shrine rework - Kinda cool, anyone who uses it will probably just proxy camp tho
Calm Spirit "buff" (nerf) - ######### were they thinking putting a reduced speed to chests and totems on this. So if I'm nowhere near the killer and I just happen across a totem I want to cleanse or bless, I have a harder time doing it now because of a perk I CHOSE to put on????
Saboteur buff - I am very biased here because I use Saboteur on every build. YES! A+ buff
Botany knowledge buff - Good buff. Might even replace we'll make it in my builds.
Off the record buff - God tier during EGC, still avg at any other point in the game. You have to remember that the effect immediately gets cancelled if they do ANYTHING towards progressing the game. So if you somehow manage to activate that endurance effect 70 seconds after they've been unhooked, it means they've been doing nothing for 70 seconds or you've been tunneling them for that long and were unable to catch them in which case you deserve it.
Lucky break buff - Good buff. Needed a recharge mechanic
Pharmacy - sucks that you have to be injured to use it but at least it works on more than one chest now (assuming they weren't all looted before you need the perk so..... maybe a nerf if you don't need it until late game?
Sole survivor buff - Okay. Still not going to get used
Distortion buff - Long overdue. Needed a recharge mechanic
Lightweight buff - I'm guessing it's a typo that they said the scratch marks fade 5/4/3 seconds sooner. It should be the other way around from tier 1 to tier 3
Deja Vu buff - experienced players still won't use it but that's good for newbies
No One Left Behind buff - Adding the haste effect is perfect. Still won't get used
Dark Sense buff?? - The fact that the perk deactivates after use and is only a one time use is tragically bad
Tenacity buff - Good buff to punish slugging
Hope buff - Endgame perk, good that they removed the time limit
Overzealous buff - Snooze. A perk that makes gens faster is boring in general
WGLF - With botany knowledge being buffed, WGLF healing downed people faster is a boring and useless effect and only matters if people get slugged in the first place. Still adding the endurance buff is cool I guess
That's it. Thank you for anyone who bothered reading all of that and I'm sure someone is likely to disagree so I'm interested in people's opinions.
Comments
yep, i wanted to make a post about how i felt about the changes but you pretty much said what most people wanted to say. minor disagreements from me on a couple things but otherwise well said 👏
Summary:
Killer nerfs = fair
Survivor nerfs = unfair
Survivor notting get nerf in this patch.
All survivor's nerf is fake.
They nerf only killer.
Current devs is survivor sided for sure.
My take has always been that if a given perk is powerful enough to be considered 'Meta', then it's probably too powerful. So I don't have a big problem with the proposed changes so far. They aren't the first, they won't be the last. And it also won't be the first time that both Survivors and Killers have declared the game dead because of a proposed change. And it won't be the first time that they're wrong.
With all that said, I too am largely a Survivor main, and 'Iron Will' is part of my '99% of the time' build. If I decide it no longer effectively serves my purpose, I'll identify another perk that will. No harm, no foul.
I guess you skipped over the part where I said Corrupt was nerfed too hard or the part where I said I agreed with a majority of the survivor nerfs including the big one everyone has been asking for, Dead Hard.
But I guess if that's your interpretation of everything I said, go off?
I've read a lot of dumb things on these forums but this one really is up there if it's not bait.
A little note on something you missed. Pop wasn't reduced from 25%-20%. It was reduced from 25% of a total generator to 20% of current progress. Meaning it isn't actually 25%-20%, it's actually 25%-to closer to averaging around 10%. Much more massive nerf than people realize.
To put into perspective 10% is 9 seconds. Which..you waste around 10 seconds walking over, kicking and walking away from a gen..which also isn't actually just 10 seconds because that means you aren't on a single survivors (1 on hook at most) so it's more like 3x10=30 lost kicking the gen to make it lose 9 seconds..
Typically most people don't realize how costly it is for a killer to kick a gen and just take regression numbers at face value I'd say.
That's fair. I didn't interpret that when I initially read it. Although to also be fair, I feel like that's how it should be? Being able to erase even 20% of a gens progress with a single kick is dumb strung imo. 20% is like 16 seconds of time for the survivor if my math brain is working?
Sorry I edited my previous post that already answered that actually.
"which also isn't actually just 10 seconds because that means you aren't on a single survivors (1 on hook at most) so it's more like 3x10=30 seconds lost for the killer kicking the gen to make it lose 9 seconds.."
So, 20% of the total (if that's what it was) may seem intense to the specific survivor on that gen, but you gotta realize there's 4 of you. Meaning that everything the killer does has to be 4x as time efficient illustrated by my numbers above. So while he spent that 10 seconds removing all your progress you had at least 2 if not 3 other teammates all just sitting on gens for free during that time.
This is assuming a number of factors including perfect communication to one person for the save instead of 2 or even on rare occasions 3 people all running for an unhook, etc but your point still stands and that makes sense. If everyone else is on separate gens at that time, progress is still being made in different places that the killer can't be at. Fair point
Ruin "you tunneled someone and don't deserve a perk"
Amazing how survivors don't lose Prove Thyself for doing a gen too fast though.
I listed that as one of the possible outcomes of a survivor dying very early on in a game. Another possibility I didn't mention if that the survivor just un-alives themselves to get out of the match which unfortunately happens often.
Also you may be surprised to hear this but I 100% agree with you and am kinda confused how Prove Thyself wasn't included in the meta. I feel it gets used more often than self care (although I didn't really look at the perk usage chart so I could be wrong). And like I sorta stated with Overzealous, I think any perk that is just "make gen go zoom" is boring and bad game design)
So I assume that better communication/efficiency since at high mmr the vast majority of the games are all SWF groups and even when they're not they're players that understand game time efficiency meaning they won't all rush the hook, they will all just sit on gens and wait to save him at the last minute before hook phasing.
I recognize that this efficiency or communication isn't a thing for lower mmr, however balancing under the assumption that the survivors will play dumb ends up making the balance completely destroyed when against the higher mmr players who don't play dumb or have communication and is the reason the high mmr balance is a dumpster fire in the first place right now. (balancing for low mmr)
It's a difficult things to balance for all levels.
I don t know why... But i can t take any survivor main post serious... Maybe it may be the toxicity that survivors created in this game, idk... But this post made me laugh...
Okay...... so what specifically made you laugh. And if a killer main shared these same opinions, would you be okay with what was said???
Killer nerfs = fair
Survivor nerfs = unfair
Uhmazing
Also you didn't understand the pop nerf.
Someone didn't read very clearly. I supported most of the survivor perk nerfs (aside from Self Care and DS which were both unnecessary as they were already nerfed)
I also think the Corrupt nerf was too much. which you would know if you read
All that i know is that this game is 4v1 and devs even in a Nerf are buffing survivors perks constantly... So yeah buff or nerf on survivors in some things doesn t really matter because is 4 heads thinking against 1 and the objective of the survivors are more ez and Faster than the Killer side. And what made me laugh, i guess it was just a survivor main post...
People who says this game is 1v1v1v1v1 is just funny xD
I like the idea on the NOED perk, but it can't really be executed. Many people have hearing problems, permitting this perk change will notably make it worse. For example I didn't even know that hex totems made any sound, until a year ago.
Someone needs to go touch grass, take a deep breath and calm down.
Ah thank you. I forget how they use the terms deactivate versus disabled when it comes to perks. Dark Sense is fine then.
Agreed. Some people are just so irrationally angry about any opinions that differ from theirs. "Oh you main this side of the game. Nothing you say matters even if it's against the side you main" -_-
I agree with you on Self-Care, because it disproportionately affects solo queue which is already running at a -15% win rate deficit.
Also agree on DS. The stun time should be reverted to 5 seconds.
Nice troll LMAO