I_Be_Pro_Fun
I_Be_Pro_Fun
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@DropdeadPiggy said:
Survive with friends are fine like it shouldn't be touched because if it wasn't in I wouldn't be playing this game like let's be straight up here
I don't think SWF should be changed, lol. Just thought it would be a decent QoL change if the killer got emblem points when going against a SWF, as the game can often times be much tougher or near impossible to win in. But as others have said, and I have realized, being high rank sucks. The depip is a mercy.
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@BenihimeWrath said:
First of all, why are you punishing me more by ranking up? Everyone knows DBD becomes less fun the higher rank you are.
Honestly BHVR needs to implement a marking system that allows players to communicate easily, and then knowing that all players have access to information sharing tools (Comms, marks) buff killers to compensate.
Y'know... Amen to that. I forgot being a high rank sucks. My monke brain just says "Entity displeased = bad"
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@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2363810#Comment_2363810
That makes no sense that's like me asking for extra bp because I went against Spirit and not Pig or in ur case solo queue (pig) and swf (Spirit) makes no sense nobody should be rewarded for what they didn't earn
Killers are in a constant balancing act, where the devs change them to be better or weaker. Some killers are of course stronger than others, but not without their drawbacks. Some players are better on some killers, sure.
But SWF puts the survivors at a massive advantage, giving them dozens of information perks for free (so long as they are on comms, basically all are,) and breaks the game balance, since the game is not balanced around comms.
A better example would be going against a Pig, or a Pig who has a HUD that shows her all gen repair progress, the location of all four survivors at any given time, and also showed her what all 16 of the survivors perks were. Not fair, is it? Would be pretty imbalanced, and put the survivors at a massive disadvantage that would make it near impossible to win.
Since its not a feature, and uses outside sources to give you more power and knowledge, most other games would consider it as hacking. But the Devs don't consider it cheating, which I find nice. When me and my friends wanna play, I don't wanna risk getting banned. But I also feel bad for any killers we go against, because even playing casually and not sweating or trying all that hard, we have an advantage that the game is not balanced around.
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@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2363753#Comment_2363753
I'm pretty sure they stated dc's aren't counted even if they are there are same amount of killers dcing and it's not like survivors dc every game kill rate is still higher and always will be higher killer isn't underpowered role here none side is both have fair chance depending of ur skills...but ppl will rather call their side underpowered just like survivors will call their role underpowered too it's natural to do so I did too we all did but the truth is neither side is at disvantage and sooner ppl realize that less stress and less toxicity we will have
When a killer is going against a 4 stack who is setting out to win, the killer is at a disadvantage. The survivors get free comms, free perks (aura reading and such,) free knowledge about the killer, gens, and their teammates,
And the killer gets depiped and no bloodpoints. All because the players they went against had an advantage.
Based game is pretty damn well balanced. But SWFs, non-casual groups at least, put the killer at a massive disadvantage. I'm not saying a speed buff or a damage buff is whats needed, just that when going against a SWF, the killer gets emblem bonuses (and possibly a BP bonus,) since most of the time, a try-hard SWF leads to a low BP depip game. The killer is punished just because the survivors were teamed up. Who does SWF forgiveness hurt?
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@justbecause said:
Why should killer be awarded for nothing just because ppl play with friends? Makes no sense that's like saying giving me same thing because someone play spirit and nurse
Because a SWF who sets out to win puts the killer at a massive disadvantage, and unless you are playing good as a top tier killer, you are basically destined to lose?
Say you are playing a lower power killer. Or Hell, even a mid-tier killer like Pyramid Head or Deathslinger.
You come across a 4 man SWF who is setting out to win the games. Not to play casually, they wanna destroy you.
They have comms, meaning they need no information perks like bond or empathy. Already at an advantage.
They know every perk the others have, and they also know who the killer is, where the killer is, and how long until a gen their teammate is working on gets completed.
They send you to a survivor sided map like Haddonfield or the Game, and now they have map advantage.
You stand no chance, unless they play dumb, or you are the best Deathslinger/Pyramid head out there. You lose time, you lose rank, and you get 10,000 or so bloodpoints out of it.
Why should the killer be punished because you wanted to play with friends?
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@tippy2k2 said:
I'd much rather have a fair game. I don't give two poos about my rank...
Fair enough. I can barely have fun on console as of right now, so I forgot other people played for pure fun, lol.
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@Dsnooz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1821427#Comment_1821427
Randoms aren't that consistently bad though. Sure not all bring BT, but some are also amazing with flashlights. You've got to give credit to the good Randoms just as much as the potatoes.
It's good that you're using Dead Hard. It will always be an imperfect perk that saves you or leaves you exhausted on the ground.
BHVR already said Dead Zones are an issue they are addressing. We have to brave the storm until BHVR is finished getting an algorithm put together for release. (It's more common on the updated maps than on Rotten Fields usually, I've had a few too many tepid matches on Shelter Woods myself). Also, "survivor blessed" maps happen too. If Dead Zones were a massive issue we'd have the algorithm out by now.
I know randoms can be wonderful with flashlights. I am actually a killer main playing at rank 2, and have gotten more dumb flashlight saves or spams then I care to admit.
I love survivors who use BT to get saves (when I am playing survivor, obviously.) The problem is when I am playing survivor. A lot of killers have rapid movement and abilities that let them stay away, and then rush back towards you once they see the unhook. So even when borrowed time is being run, a lot of the time the killer can counter it. If the survivor isn't running borrowed time though, the unhooked person gets killed faster. While I do love survivors who run BT (I don't use it, but I also body block killer, take protection hits, and only do safe unhooks and will be willing to trade with the survivor if I mess up), but its not as effective against smart or experienced killers as people think.
I know it can be inconsistent, but I feel its much worse on console. Most of the time I use the perk as the killer swings, I'll get exhausted, start the animation, and then immediately go down. Or I'll press it, then the killer will gain a speedboost with their swing and catch up to hit me still.
I might have gotten the map name wrong, sorry. The map I'm thinking of is the rather small cornfield one with the shack in the middle, and the only loops are on the outside. The entire center of the map (other than shack) is a dead zone, and you either have to stealth, or confuse the killer. When I get that map, I have to "tunnel" gens, because that map just feels so... Against survivor. Same as how with old Ormond, killers would sit up and play their A game because survivors could casually loop them. But thank you for your feedback and input.
I hope I'm not coming off as rude or entitled. I sometimes have that tone when I type
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@noctis129 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1821450#Comment_1821450
U do realize ur comments makes u a entitled survivor right?
I mean, maybe I do come off as a little entitled. I was just saying that maybe we should try to find a fix for tunneling instead of introducing dlc perks that bandaid fix tunneling (BT, DS, Unbreakable, Break out, power struggle).
I mean, I know I am not entitled to an escape. But when the killer is able to get all 3 hooks on me in under a minute because my teammate got unsafe hooks and I got punished for it, I think there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Whether that be a counter to tunneling, or a counter to teammates farming you for unsafe unhooks.
And I wanted to hear everyone's ideas in the comments, because there were some aspects I hadn't thought of. Such as punishing the survivor who went for the unsafe unhook, rather than the killer who is playing smart. I care about others input, which is why I have responded to almost every post in here that I think I can add my input too, while trying to see things that can be both fair and effective.
But hey, maybe I am just an entitled, biased survivor main! I mean, I'd have to be to believe that tunneling is detrimental to an individuals fun and the balance of the game.
But I would like to hear your input on this. In all honesty, do you prefer the second chance perks because they add a sorta... Spice and choice to each interaction? You gotta gamble if they have DS, gotta worry about unbreakable if you slug, so on and so forth? Or do you simply not think there is a serious problem, and I am maybe just... On a bad luck streak the past few games?
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@BastardKing said:
From the videos and streams I watch, Tunneling tends to happen a lot more at 2 gens than at 4-5. I think part of the problem, and why we see Ruin/Undying so much, is that there isn't as much reward for actively being elsewhere as there is for ensuring one survivor dies. I was playing rank 1s as clown the other day, they were kicking my ass with no chance of winning, until I killed one and got a key pop off. Now, with 3 people, it went from unwinnable to slowly heading my way, and I won the battle of attrition. There is such a huge advantage to having someone die, that if survivors get to 1-2 gens, someone needs to be dead or you lose. Instead of thinking like a survivor, and wanting to punish a killer for killing, think like you want killers to actually play the game, and have more ways to reward them for leaving like Ruin/Undying does. It is a 2 perk combo that ONLY has value if you are not staying in one place.
I agree. Sometimes it can be better to actually get someone out of the game. And I like perks that promote being away from hook. The problem is, they are either super or miss, dlc, or broken on some characters. To get ruin undying, I have to get both hag and blight up to extremely high levels, and then hope I get both in the blood web of my main.
Devour hope is nice, except if it gets broken instantly, its a useless slot. And most survivors will gun for it as soon as they see exposed devour hope.
Make your choice is awful. Because the unhook survivor either has a massive headstart by the time you show up, or the killer just gets over there instantly (nurse, hag, blight, spirit, etc) and now nobody is gonna wanna save.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1821505#Comment_1821505
Because that is the game. I'm not trying to be snide or harsh. I'm just pointing out the obvious. This is a 4v1 PVP game. Survivors as a group, performing at least competently, are more than a match for the Killer. The advantage shifts to them as the skill levels increase. However, the downside is they are only as strong as their weakest member. You aren't being punished for anything. You and I both know the drill. When we come into the Solo Que (We few... we proud... we undaunted) we do it with the knowledge that we are entirely in the dark about whether our peers will be stand up guys/gals. SWF tend not to have this problem, but Solo do.
True. I still wish there was a system of some kind in place. I have had 2 matches in the past day (the first one I made the post about, and then one a little while ago against the twins) where both times a safe unhook ended with me tunneled. And it is just... I wasted a commodious and a ranger medkit to be out before 3 gens done? Now I depip and lose good items for... What?
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@rglarson13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1821481#Comment_1821481
The problem isn't winning the game.
The problem is the survivors abusing the immunity to make the game less fun for the killer, in the same way that getting camped ruins the fun for a survivor, despite the fact that it usually causes the killer to lose the game.
Unless you're willing to concede that camping isn't a problem because the killer isn't pressuring gens or chasing other survivors, then you need to accept that survivors having any amount of immunity is problematic.
Sorry, my phone keeps deleting the message or refreshing the page. Camping is a viable strategy. Tunneling can be too. But at 4-5 gens left and you tunnel the same guy off hook twice, because their teammate was a jerk?
Also, I do think the unhooker should be penalized. The problem is, how would they do it? The unsafe unhooker already recieves less bp and emblem.
If you make it a weak status effect like blindness or hemorage, so what? If you make it something strong like exposed, exhaustion, or hindered, well now the killer can abuse that harder than any survivor could previously. A lot of killers can turn a safe unhook into an unsafe one. Say a teammate saves me from basement. A nurse who was far away now teleports in, and hits me. Now that unhooker is punished for a safe unhook because the killer was smarter. Now the killer has one person down, and an exposed/slowed/exhausted survivor. That's free pressure, an easy down, and one hook (maybe even two)
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1821490#Comment_1821490
I'm not saying that hook rescues aren't tricky, nor am I saying they are easy. I'm just saying they (Tunneling too) are part of the game. It is just a problem we all deal with. I'm saying there are already enough things built in and available. Nothing else needs to be added. There is always going to be Killer agency, and straight up bad luck. You can get safely rescued and run to the other side of the map, and still run into the Killer by accident. I play Killer and Survivor. I'm not picky as Killer, and I take the target I feel I can run down safest for the next hit. If the Survivor making the rescue does their job right, he/she will be the target.
I can't tell you how many times I've ended up at the hook when an unsafe rescue is taking place, and the would-be rescuer puts the hooked between me and them. I've seen it too often to think it isn't on purpose. :) Tunneling happens largely because Survivors do a poor job. Fixing that with code isn't necessary. They just need to up their game.
I agree. It is on the unhooking survivors to play smarter and be better. But that isn't realistic to believe in. Do I wish it were true? Yes. But until it is, the unhooked person is simply going to be punished for their teammates short sitedness or selfishness. I get unhooked in a farmy way by meg, who sprint bursts off. Now I am gonna go down, so I lose a hook. Why am I punished for a bad teammate?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/213611/a-simple-solution-to-tunneling
There are already lots of SIMPLE solutions to tunneling:
- Safe Rescues. I know people seem to have forgotten how to do these, but these are the best defense against tunneling.
- The Perk: Borrowed Time is great for when those safe rescues are hard to do.
- Protection Hits: You are part of a TEAM of Survivors and they can take the hit for you and block, or take their time on the hook.
There are lots of other ways too, but the three above are the easiest and most simple. Your "solution" isn't simple nor necessary. Tunneling doesn't need "fixing" because it isn't broken. It is part of the game. You answer it with other game actions, and doesn't need to be coded.
I love your train of thought, and wish it was more widely known. Honestly, I do. But these ideas are all something you would have to rely on a random survivor and a nice killer for. Nurse, spirit, billy, wraith, ghostface, t1 myers or t2 invisi myers, pyramid head, hag, oni, demogorgon, death slinger, huntress... Etc etc. All of these killers can turn a safe unhook (no tr nearby or killer distracted) into an unsafe hook in seconds.
Borrowed time is awesome! The problem is, well, its easily countered. Not only does the unhooking survivor have to have BT (something you can't rely on), the killer has to be nearby, have a TR, and even then you only get 15 seconds. Look at what pros like otz do. They will just walk behind the BT guy for 15 seconds until it runs out then hit them.
I take protection hits whenever possible. Heck, if I have a medkit, I can sometimes take 2 to 3 protection hits in a single chase. The thing is, a lot of randoms can't be trusted to do this. And even when they do, the killer can just ignore them and go after you. I love all of these ideas, but all of your ideas rely on the other survivor to be a hero, or the killer to be nice. And when playing with randoms, you are better off running deliverance, self care, unbreakable, and decisive to save yourself.
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@rglarson13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1821440#Comment_1821440
But this solution is abusable in the same way DS and BT are: the survivor follows you around and then soaks a hit for the unhooker.
Or he just follows you for an indeterminate amount of time, knowing that as long as he chases the killer he's basically invincible; all the while he's able to get in the way, engage the killer in chases, etc.
It encourages bold and stupid plays on the party of the survivor, with the end result of punishing the killer.
Anyone who has ever played killer knows that there's a whole category of survivor whose job on their team is to waste the killer's time -- they don't touch gens, heal, or do anything else if they have any chance whatsoever to distract the killer from engaging the other survivors.
And that's ignoring the less talented survivors who still want to mess with the killer, either because they think it's funny or they enjoy the chase more than the objective.
These types of survivors are the ones killers are complaining about when it comes to perks like DS, BT, etc. The people who play stupid on purpose because they know that they're "punishing" the killer. No killer is complaining about DS when they tunnel a guy right off the hook.
You are correct, that it can be abused. But if the survivor is chasing you around, they aren't healing, they aren't doing generators, they aren't doing totems or anything else. Now you have two people occupied and free pressure. If that person goes down, even more pressure. You probably won't pick them up for the hook, as they weren't your intended target. I'm sure there are tweaks that can be made to my idea, absolutely. But as of right now, unless your teammate has bt or you have DS and good FPS, the killer gets nothing but free hooks for tunneling you.
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@rglarson13 said:
Alternate solution: as killer base kit, thrilling tremors for as long as someone is hooked, but only while the killer is 36m away from the person on the hook.
It encourages people to go save the guy on the hook, and it encourages the killer to leave. It encourages chases with people over there, because then they're not generating and they can't unhook.
Also, it discourages bold and/or stupid play by the unhookee, which is a huge source of "tunneling."
And it prevents gen tunneling, which is unfun for the killer. Nobody likes to lose just because the other side is playing to win.
While that could work, it would only work on specific killers. Killers like nurse, billy, spirit, wraith, pyramid head (in a sense), death slinger, huntress, twins, clown (in a sense), legion, hag, demogorgon, blight and oni would be less effected by this. Either because they are high speed, or because their ranged attacks let them hit the survivors from far away.
Not to mention, you have now given the killer an absurd amount of pressure and a free tracking ability whenever they hook somebody. They have now blocked most of the gens, and they can see any gen that has survivors on it.
This stops face camping and really close camping, but if anything, it makes tunneling a better strategy. Now the killer has incentives to get hooks quickly. So my full health teammate unhooks me, and the killer comes back. He sees my teammate full healthed run off, and me, injured, run off the other way. He is most likely gonna come for me, as I only have one hit in me, and even if I have DS and Unbreakable, that's one survivor out of the game for a while
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@Thanotos_Omega said:
You are no more entitled to a 4 Escape game than a killer is a 4 kill game, if you take away tools from the killer you need to take away tools from survivors to balance it out, like being hooked once removes your on hit speed burst and disables your exhaustion perks permanently so you are way easier to take down in future chases making it less of a issue if you run off and heal,
otherwise stop messing up unhooks don't have a healthy person with no hooks try to be bait, for example have a more skilled injured one do it, or just eat the loss and do gens, if you die you get to start a new game,
You are absolutely correct! I am no more entitled to a 4 man escape than a killer is a 4k. But I also shouldn't be actively punished in hooked 3 times in the span of one minute because a teammate farmed me and the killer used that for free pressure. Imagine if survivors could complete a generator in 10 seconds because the killer decided to kick it too many times in a row. Why should a survivor be penalized because their teammate farmed them and played poorly? Why should the killer get to kill someone in 1 minute because their teammate farmed them? Why would you let a survivor instantly finish a gen because the killer kicked it tok many times?
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@noctis129 said:
Why can't just run BT, DS, Camaraderie, Breakdown?
There's times I'm unhooked in front of the exit game, immediately whacked and re-hooked on that same spot.
That immediate re-hook on that same spot is the annoying part as it's too fast.
Doesn't give other survivors to heal and be chased away out of the exit gate.
BT doesn't save me when another survivor goes for a safe unhook. I am bad at hitting the DS skillchecks as on console, the skillcheck causes an FPS drop. Camaraderie is extremely niche, and doesn't stop the killer from tunneling. And breakdown could work, but most maps have hooks that are too close together for breakdown to do anything but waste both me and the killer's time. Also, shouldn't have to run a build with 4 DLC perks to counter tunneling.
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@FattiePoobum said:
I dunno
you are trying to fix a problem that shouldn’t actually be a problem.
lf you are patient and don’t hook rush the killer either sits there and gets his 1k camp or he leaves.
The game didn’t create this problem, the players did, you shouldn’t make a fix for a mindset problem.
I totally agree, it should not be an issue. But it is. Survivors get free BP for the unhook, and even more +emblem progress if you don't take a hit for 5-10 seconds. Killers get an extra hook, more pressure, or a dead survivor if they do tunnel you. Both sides gain benefits for abusing it, so why should we not punish them? @CrimsonReverie had a good idea. A penalty or punishment for the survivor who committed the unsafe unhook. Now both parties learn their lesson, and it could help curtail the tunneling/farming mindset
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@Terro said:
Why not just make it completely impossible to tunnel or camp then? The problem with these punishments is that it's too easy to accidentally do and it incentivizes cheap plays on the survivor side.
Because this wouldn't punish killers for accidentally "tunneling" like DS does. This perk has a limited amount of time, and the only time the countdown is paused is if the killer is too close to the survivor. So either the killer goes off and the survivor's timer ticks down, the killer tunnels the survivor in which case this solves the issue by punishing the killer, or the survivor chases the killer to stay in the area and doesn't do gens or help teammates.
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@CacahueseSeco said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1819354#Comment_1819354
Agree.
At first i play more survi, lke 70% survi - 30% killer. And i never face camp, not usually 'tunnel' or camp (WHEN MATCH IS LOST, 5 GENS AND 2 HOOKS, WHAT SHOULD I DO, GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP, GO EVERY SINGLE SURVI AND TRY TO HIT ONCE TO ALL OF THEM, NO, IM SMART) Depends on the context.
People need to understant the context. Why killer did that. Also many survis call tunnel if u just follow them wow. THINK IN THIS WAY... survis don't do gens to 80% and then run to other gen, no, they end that gen, to do progression on the match. Oh they are tunneling gens, how toxic, XD
I hate when killers tunnel me or face camp, but depends on context. Many of those, were caused by survivors who did unsafe unhooks near the killer and then have chases of less than 10 seconds. Manny of those tunnels or camps, are in late (many others don't), when the match can be lost without any single kill, and the last chances that killer is use them. But finally are part of the game, we can like or not. When someone is camping survis MUST BE SMART and don't unhook, at least soon, and gen rush. When someone seems tunneled people need to take hits to them or use perks like borrowed time.
But yeah i agree is annoying when since the start of the match, u get tunneled or face camed without reason. As i said, i play more survi, and i not usually do 'tunnel' or 'camp'
Only 1 gen (which I did) was done against a spirit. She had one hook (who I saved and healed), and what she did was she hooked me in basement and ran off to pressure gens. Everytime the same girl saved me, she would use her phase ability to rush over and hit me. No BT because no TR. No outrunning because no good loops and spirit. I got hit by the same tactic twice before even a second generator was done.
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@Dsnooz said:
This is why Borrowed Time is in the game. The problem is players not bringing Borrowed Time.
I hate to say it again, but you always have the option to outplay the killer.
You can Dead Hard after being unhooked, you can have sprint burst after being unhooked, you could run DS, you could have looped the killer for enough time for gens to finish just before you go down, etc.
You can't trust randoms to bring BT. So my life rests in the chance that this random is using BT, the killer isn't a stealth, and the killer is far away?
I do run dead hard. But on console, it only works half the times. I have gotten exhausted and then downed in the same 5 frames more often than I have evaded an attack with it. I don't use sprint burst because I personally don't like it. The DS skill check on console can be completely destroyed by the frame rate drop of it appearing (I have had times where the fps drops, and by the time I can see the spinner its past the DS).
As for looping the killer, not every map is good for that. I was playing on rotten fields when it happened, a map filled with dead zones. How am I supposed to loop a killer (spirit in this case) for 4 generators while injured on a map with a dead zone every 5 feet?
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@CrimsonReverie said:
I think the premise here is flawed. Tunneling, like proxy camping and slugging, aren't problems, they're just things survivors don't like.
To counter tunneling, there are perks like Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike. This is noticably different from the score penalty killers receive for staying too close to hooks when face camping.
Your proposal is to give survivors, essentially, a fifth perk slot, not necessarily to counter tunneling, but to punish the killer for poor play by your team.
A better fix for your problem would be a timer that penalizes someone for X amount of unsafe hooks within a period of time. This could be a BP loss or a status affect, like 20 seconds of exhaustion or hindered which would help persuade a killer to pursue them over the easy, injured target who could be getting farmed.
I mentioned those perks already. Yes, borrowed time can counter some tunneling and camping (except against stealth killers, who are generally amazing campers. Like the twins who have no TR), but not everyone runs it. So if my teammate decided they didn't want it, I just have to die?
As for decisive, I mean, it can be helpful. But I play on console. I am not the best in the world at skillchecks, but having a frame rate drop and stutter everytime a skillcheck appears happens kinda often. And if my life rests on optimization done by the devs, I am probably gonna die.
Also, that penalty can be abused even more than the anti tunnel perk. Lets say my teammate saves me. Now the killer comes right back and hits me. They didn't plan on picking me up because they are nice or fear I have decisive. Well, now they have another teammate they can hunt. And this one is exhausted! So one person slugged, one exhausted person in chase. Thats a lot of pressure and a possible easy down.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
This is punishing the killer for the wrong doings on your teammates.
You admitted this came from your teammates farming you so I have to ask:
Why SHOULD the killer be punished for the SURVIVOR'S mistakes?
This wreaks of cognitive dissonance("My teammates wronged me so I must punish the Killer for my team's mistakes").
I have a lot to catch up on. No, I do not think the killer should be punished for survivor mistakes. But why should I be punished because of a bad teammate? I lose my item, depip, lose my offering, lose bloodpoints, waste my time, because my teammate unhooked and then urban evaded away two times in a row?
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@megswifey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1819233#Comment_1819233
That's a great point and I thought of it too, but I would prefer that over getting downed super quickly off the hook. There's no simple solution unfortunately, I guess the strategy is to tunnel out the 'weakest' even if their errors were not errors at all but just bad timing. Happens a lot, and while it sucks, all you can do is hope for the best!
True that. All we can do is hope to get an avtual fix one day that isn't just a one use perk with a chance to fail (I play console, and the skillcheck for DS actually caused fps drops and stutters with the indicator)
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@megswifey said:
To be honest, I think 5-8 seconds of deep wound status should be base kit for survivors since taking someone unhooked is just too easy. I can't think of the ways to integrate it since I'm not a game developer, but I think that would be great for people :) Also, what a good idea!!! I think there are some adjustments to be made to balance survivors so they all have good abilities but nothing super meta nor weak, then again that would be great for both sides lol!
While the 5-8 seconds of deep wound could possibly work, then we just have the same thing we have with borrowed time. The killer is simply just gonna hug you until those 5-8 seconds is up, and then they hit you down.
I'm sure there could be tweaks and stuff for balancing, but it was kinda just an off the top of my head idea with some quick thought while typing.
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@Pokino said:
Devs will NEVER fix the tunnel/camp issue, because they want it into the game, as a part of that kind of feeling of "every match is different"... and its quite cool on streaming to watch that borrowed that allows you to escape in the last moment.
A different thing would be a better punishment to campers and tunnelers. The game is in a state where killers have enough options to do good matches without those... "strategies", I think.
It is very satisfying to see a survivor run past the killer and save you with BT so both of you can run out the exit gate and "win."
But unless you are a famous streamer or playing with friends, that's unreliable at best i've had more teammates wait for me to die to take my medkits or tool box (which turns out to be a brown or a yellow) then save me with borrowed time.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
It wouldn't fix tunneling/camping, but it would penalize the Killer for it.
That said, I feel like it would mess with Devotion points, which caps at 12 hooks. At that point, it might not penalize the Killer at all, unless they don't receive points for hooking within the time frame.
Also, going by your story, that was more your teammates fault than the Killer. You didn't accuse the Killer of jerkery, though, so I'm guessing you know that, to which I offer a hug amongst thugs.
It would penalize the killer, that is the point. Don't have it count to sacrifice, and now the killer has even less incentive to do that. And the killer being penalized for camping and tunneling is the whole point. It won't stop tunneling, of course, but it would make it... Non-beneficial to the killer to do. Heck, it would actually make it detrimental to do it. Because unless you slug for an entire minute without anyone attempting to help the downed survivor (in which case, they are likely doing gens), you just refreshed the survivor's hook timer.
And of course I didn't complain about the killer. Do I dislike how they played? Yes. Was it actually smart for them to hunt the injured person rather than go for the full health girl with a medkit? Yes.
But complaining about a bad teammate solves nothing, and complaining about a jerk killer will just get me "Git gud" messages. So I tried to come up with a solution.
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@Ecstasy said:
I think the problem is that matchmaking isn't really broken.
How often does a mid rank survivor ever face an upper tier killer? I honestly can't even recall if that's ever happened to me as a level 10 survivor (same as my killer rank). MM is working exactly as intended to produce the best possible match-ups in the most reasonable time frame.
The issue is deeper: Dead By Daylight has a major killer shortage. And that's actually pretty messed up when you consider how it only requires 1 killer for every 4 survivors in the first place, and killer is the big badass pop-culture icon role too here.
The shortage is increasingly an issue at the higher ranks where the experiences are more sweaty and less casual for obvious reasons, yet those root imbalances and fun voids (*cough* voice coms *cough*) are neglected, and the game relies on artificial boosters (tomes, dailies, points) to boost up killer player and the looser matchmaking restrictions.
Naturally though, the frustrations only end up passed on down the line, and with increasing severity. The initial imbalance (the steroids of voice-communication and dynamic shift for a game designed around players who can't even ######### type messages in normal games) and the natural escalation of toxicity levels are only amplified by those skill differences of regularly 5 (but up to 10) player rankings. This all even more significant too as the player base itself attempts to adapt to their individual woes: where killers avoid peak gameplay times with more likely SWF resulting in even worse matchmaking at those times, and even with the normally reasonable pairings it's more likely whatever normally balanced rank 5 actually has 4,000 hours and plays at sub-skill levels to avoid the increased match making time too. It's all exacerbating the effects of what are essentially bullshit and unfun matches that run off killers in the first place with a process that leads to running off more killers, and requiring more bullshit to compensate.
(But just git gud actually cause games dont need to be fun, and those players are entitled to your time as a punching bag for sick voice comm maneuvers and trolling antics. What you gonna do about it? Quit? Hah ha hah... oh, right.)
Kind of a vicious cycle, isn't it? Killers get bullied by SWFs, second chance perks, gen rushing and whatnot, so they quit the game or take a break.
Well, now we have less killers in red ranks. So expand the matchmaking. Now we have an inexperienced killer facing the same thing, except they generally have less time on the game or aren't ready for the red ranks, now they lose more often. So on and so forth, only slowed by the Devs releasing new killers, challenges, or powerful perks (but that's been kinda been going down in recent times, and I am seeing a lengthening of my survivor que times)
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@I_am_Negan said:
You should know to look at a wall when picking up.
And if you were out in the open you should of checked before picking up.
You seen they had 3 flashlight warriors before the match started
Actually, no. I wasn't paying attention in the pre-game lobby, got distracted. And they always went down in the open. I did try to chase off the flashlight people, but there were 3 of them. Even if I downed 1, thats still 2 people with flashlights. Also, unbreakable, and SWF. There was no chasing them off
Think of it like this. I down one flashlight. Two more. I chase one flashlight off, and the other goes for the heal. I push that one off the heal, and now the first flashlight has returned. There was no winning. Also, didn't have lightborn or franklins for my trapper.
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Oh, and don't forget body blocking at the exit gate! Hit one girl off the door, and everyone else ran up to open it, and then stood in my way so I couldn't even hit her! Good fun all around, with my trapper who I was literally only using for a Daily.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1781899#Comment_1781899
His last name is Johnson, so Johnny still works imo. Plus, would Ghosty really wanna reveal his real name to people?
That's like the ending of every scream movie! They think they've won, so they remove their mask and explain their plans, and get absolutely blind sided.
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Coup De Grace seems like it will be super useful on like... 3 or 4 killers, and worthless on almost others. I haven't played the PTB (console pleb), but if the lunge increase applies to nurse after she blinks, and t3 myers? They will be even more monstrous. Everyone else? Doesn't matter.
Hoarder should do more, honestly. Yeah, a noise indication is nice. Especially when I run franklins a lot. But come on. More items? Even as lower chance for high ones, it doesn't change the fact they get more.
Opression should do increased regression, or have a shorter cool down. Right now, I just see it as a weaker ruin with more use, or a surge but less reliable. And thats bad, because surge isn't really that powerful or reliable already.
Deception is neat, though I doubt it will see use for much. Make it so that you dont leave scratches for 5 seconds, and its more useful. 3 seconds is barely any distance to hide scratches.
Appraisal is Ace's best friend, but I'm not sure its gonna see major use in the purple and red ranks unless its Ace or someone going for adept. Extra items are nice, but at those ranks, you are probably bringing an item or don't care to look for one.
Power struggle is gonna be seen in specific builds among swf or really good solos, but I doubt its gonna see much more use. Seeing as it requires flip flop ans trustable teammates, as well as the killer to slug? Too many variables for a perk that requires two perk slots at least.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1753169#Comment_1753169
It’s hardly a tiny benefit at all. Survivors giving away their location is always useful.
Me as a stealth killer, trapper, or hag; *Minds my own business*
The Object of Obsession: Allow me to introduce myself
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@Orionbash said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640735#Comment_1640735
You'd have to be some kind of special to teabag an AI and assume it understands the sentiment. And I won't even dignify the part of your post that assumes that AI have feelings.
You know that AI is literally a bot program that can learn, adapt, and feel emotion? You confuse "computer program" with "AI." To disable learning and adaptability would just make it a basic bot.
Also, your idea is that "The Devs keep balancing both sides of the game, so lets get rid of the other side." Your post is literally you trying to get rid of a massive part of the player base, because the devs are doing their jobs and trying to balance the game.
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There are a few ways to get me to give you mercy.
-absolute defeat (only 1 gen done max, sometimes 0 gens done, everyeone else died)
-You played smart but brave (getting saves, protecting, etc. But not if you are toxic)
-If you want to live more than you want to prevent me from getting kills. (I do this by patrolling the doors, and if I find the last survivor on one towards the end of the clock, I will approach them. If you are last alive and keep opening the door, even as I am standing within grabbing distance, you can go. Though, I'll probably whack you on the way out)
There are a few other times, but most people already said them (you got your stacks/challenges done, you played maturely and did objective while everyone else flopped around like their controllers had drift and they were trying to play on a WII controller)
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1117163#Comment_1117163
Yeah but most killers dont complain about color blind options. Colorblind people do. Not just killers.
When you keep saying "killers complain" or "killers hard time" it seems more like you want killer ease and not actual colorblind assistance for both sides.
I'm not saying that's your actual thought. Just how it seems when you keep talking about killers.
I think the reason OP specified Killer as their reason for wanting colorblind assistance is because Killers need it more. Most of killers tracking capabilities rely on sight, such as blood pools, scratch marks, etc. Not to say their abilities don't rely on sound now and then (I have caught people because of grass crunching beneath their feet).
As a survivor, subtle time sensetive color shifts are not neccesary. All of the things you need to focus on are bright (generators, pallets to an extent, lit totems). I don't believe that only one side should get a colorblind mode, and I don't believe this is survivor sided (in a similar manner to more competitive games, color blind mode and hearing loss mode can make things extremelt unfair. I hate to use this as an example, but Fortnite has a hearing deficiency mode, which gives you subtitles based on noises around you. Including footsteps and gunshots you may not have heard even id you could hear. Imagine if you were playing a stealth killer and got a text warning they were coming).
Colorblind would be hard to impliment, but I think it should be something the devs should at least think about. For both sides. This is for the enjoyment of all, not to buff one side or another
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You say that survivors have to do a lot to use a key to win. A half a year ago, I would have agreed as you had to actually do gens. But now, so long as one person is dead, the hatch will spawn (i may be wrong about the number or dead people, but my point is). A survivor with a key can sit and hide the entire game, and do absolutely nothing, and then get hatch. I once had a teammate do that who actually ruined it. He hid almost the entire game with her key, and waited for our teammate to die. He died, the key guy used hatch. Killer closed it. Activated EGC. Got us killed.
The key requires you to do nothing but live long enough for someone else to die. If anything, the mori actually requires you to do more than the Key does.
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@GeneralSpudmuffin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871795#Comment_871795
Yes. This sounds like a beast of a perk
Thank you. I love seeing people's perks ideas and killer ideas, and I also love trying to balance stuff
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I like the thought of being fast, and just snatching stuff on the go. But like mentioned by some others, it would need buffing to be reasonable. So here are a few proposed changes I would give it:
*See an aura mark (not an outline, maybe like a circle or something) within 20/26/32 meters that are on the ground. When skill is on cooldown, you cannot see the auras of the items
*When you pick up a new item for the first time that match (each item once a match) that item will receive 15%/20%/30% charges. Cannot overstack (countering franklins, and letting you swap with a teammate if need be)
My last proposed change, though I do believe this one might be pushing it. Maybe like a perk of its own, but whatever.
*When a teammates item break, they discard it. You can then go and retrieve that item at any time, restoring 10%/20%/30% of the charges to you only. This will put the effect on cooldown, and can only be used once per item (so a teammate can't do it again, and dropping the item will break it)
These were just a few thoughts I had, which would make your unique perk idea a bit more viable. If it was made, I dont think all should be implimented. But one or two may make your idea more powerful.
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I love the thought and thrill of every killer getting unique chase music, or at least the majority. But now all I can imagine is going against a Hillbilly and it being like...
*Works on Generator, getting it to 90%*
*Banjo Music Stops*
*Several seconds pass, and the Tinkerer runs out*
*Banjo music intensifies*
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Hmm, ok. I getcha both, and I see where you are coming from.
The way you phrased it made it sound like self care and anyone who runs it is bad though, I was hust trying to say there are scenarios and people who use it responsably and effectively.
Like when you said gens, and people self caring right infront of you or whatnot, I know lots who do that to be fair. But generally, if you don't get off gen after a few seconds, I'll go to working on the generator as well.
I understand Inner Strength is a quicker replacement to Self Care, but not everyone who runs self care is a Bad player, and not in every scenario is it a bad choice. I will admit, I usually run self care and medkit, because they kind of stack (and if my medkit runs out, I can always heal up regularly).
All I was saying is, there is a scenario where every perk in the game, no matter how bad you think it is, is useful. Except MoM, but that's just because Distraction hit scoring events are bugged, and MoM doesn't register them. (I honestly think it should register Distraction, and Protection)
Anyways, thank you both for having an honest, actually well thought out discussion with me. That honestly doesn't happen often, here or on other forums.
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Oop, missed acknowledging a few things mentioned.
Yeah, we'll make it is quicker. But odds are, if I'm unhooking someone, nobody else will be able to use their will make it on me.
And I will admit, I play killer more than Survivor. I have spotted people because of their bright red lunchbox before, as unbelievable as it sounds.
I get what you guys are saying, using it selfishly is bad. Its a waste of time, and inner strength is better. The people who get unhooked, run, and self care are nothing but a detriment to the team. But if you don't use it selfishly, I.E. when playing for unhooks and distractions, it generally outranks Inner Strength because of it not needing a prep. That, and if I am hurt when someone goes down, I can also be relatively close (not messing with bones on the other end of the map)
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So, its a little obvious to mw that you two don't play Altruisticly in the sense of going for hooksaves and protecting teammates.
"If you get hit more than two times a match, you are doing something wrong." Was truly the dead give away. If my teammates get hooked, I am generally the one to save them (Usually run borrowed time, self care, Babysitter, and an interchangeable perk which is usually more gen oriented or Dead hard.
Say my teammate goes down, and gets hooked. I go in for the save, and get hit. I loop the killer, and occasionally heal a little, until either he goes after someone else, I am fully healed, or he gets me.
Now lets say, he goes after someone else instead of finishing the loop with me, and I fully heal. Sure, it does take longer, but now, I am ready to go. Say, six seconds before I finish healing, he snags someone off gen, and hooks them. I now heal up to fully, and can go save them.
If I had been running Inner strength, I would have had to go and find another totem before I could heal up again, meaning that getting hit while going for a save.
And yes, I know, if the killer is within distance to hit me when I go for the unhook, its unsafe, and could be considered farming. But there are lots of times killers camp (everyone knows that). There are killers who watch from afar. There are just the killers who are patrolling in the area. Sometimes I body block, or take a distraction event.
The reason you guys don't see it as viable, is because it's a waste of time and cannot be prepped like other perks (like inned strength).
But if you are playing altruisticly, or as a distraction to the killer (like me), self care is higher ranking due to the fact that it can be applied over time, can be applied mid chase, doesn't require me to do totems, and has no minimum number of uses.
While generally, Inner strength is more time viable than self care, the fact it has a limited number of uses, as well as has to be prepped reduces it's viability for more altruistic players.
So just don't completely disqualify self care's uses, please.
(Also, didn't they nerf DS? I thought you had to be hooked, and then you had 60 seconds where if you get grabbed it can be activated. Or does that not affect locker grabs?)
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I do just have to say, your defense is inner strength is eight seconds. Which, comparitively, is faster than the 24 seconds of Self care. Quick question though...
How long does a totem take?
Cause I'm fairly certain that the totem + the 8 seconds (not including the fact that you have to find a locker).
Not to mention, it has a limited number of uses. You can use inner strength a maximum of 5 times a match! Thats if your teammates dont cleanse any totems as well, so you can heal 5 times, compared to Self Care's unlimited number of uses. And a med kit has it's own drawbacks. Its bright (bad for hiding), it has a limited number of uses (generally 1-3, maybe 4 with good add ons). But it is completely countered by Franklin's demise (which any smart killer would run).
Is Inner Care better for it's faster heal time, and the fact you can prep it? Yes.
Is it viable with the fact totems take longer than self care does generally, and the fact it has a maximum of 5 uses? Not as much as you write.
If I have to go for an unhook or a body block, I would rather have the 24 seconds flat whenever I get injured, than all the time and specific scenarios where Inner Strength is Viable. (Also, side note, Self care is good for waking up and I can use self care mid chase. And I dont proc Iron Maiden).
Thank you for coming to my TED talk
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/711920#Comment_711920
Give it more effects then, like opening the exit gate.
Or make it a smaller but stackable buff gained when Survivors die like Sole Survivor.
Maybe opening the exit gates. But then again, people will iust crowd around you making you do it slower.
And if it was based off of how many survivors were dead, then it would simply just be like the original left behind, except it would require everyone to be dead to have the same effects
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/711933#Comment_711933
Fair enough, I hope your new perk idea gets added.
Thank you
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/89587/new-to-this-perk-ideas
1.) It can easily be unfair for the obsession if they killer has that perk with play with your food. If the killer was smart he would also have make your choice. So not only does that person become the obsession, he would be an easy kill. The problem with new perk idea is that they can be op if you add it with other perks.
2.) This perk seems more reasonable.
3.)I don't know if that perk is balance or not.
4.) It's alright because it can only be used once at a certain time.
5.) Not bad at all. I think I like this perk as much as number 2.
6.) I don't mind this perk.
7.) It sounds like it can be very broken because there are perks that allows suriviors to vault and do thing quicker. So on addition to this, alot of loops can be opened. Especially with the bonus of your perk idea to vault through blocked window. So I can see this being very unfair to killers. However, the drawback Is really high which might not be worth it and lead it to becoming useless.
Thank you for your input.
There is lots to talk, but I'll just cover Marked for Murder.
It can be partnered with Make your choice, but honestly (except for a waiting nurse, waiting spirit, hag, or maybe demigorgon), how often do smart players get caught out by Make your choice? I run it on Hag and Spirit, and I dont know if I've ever activated it more than once a season. Maybe twice at most.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/710245#Comment_710245
It doesn't matter what Killers it is meant for. Faster Killers can use it too so it needs to be balanced with that in mind.
And autodidact speeds up healing. You don't want that kind of effect on generators.
Gen rush is an issue. Even something like 3% extra progress from skill checks is enough to start causing problems.
Resilience and Spine chill only work because of both low numbers and large risks.
Toning down the numbers just makes it's other effects irrelevant. So it would be better to just not have it effect gens and adjust the numbers accordingly.
If you don't affect anything but healing and cleansing, what makes it better than just running botany knowledge? Except botany knowledge can be used to help teammates, so then Deadweight would provide nothing that botany cant, excepf a slight increase to cleansing.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/709929#Comment_709929
Seeing the Obsessions aura is already a really good effect. As is the Obsession swapping.
The speed decrease is already unneeded and makes looping as the Obsession completely impractical. And in this meta that's completely OP.
It's effectively making you a 121% Killer in a chase.
And good Survivors will split up on gens. Especially if they have this perk.
15% extra gen speed is insane. That simply shouldn't be a perk effect without an extremely difficult prerequisite.
That perk is meant more so for slower killers (Huntress, Nurse, etc).
And maybe... What if it was more like autodidact? Where it doesnt work with tools, and skillchecks have no possible benefits? Or maybe minimal benefits.
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Thank you both for your input!
Both of your ideas do provide good works.
1, in my opinion, is actually rather weak. And if the obsession's speed was reduced when in a chase with anyone who isnt the obsession, that would simply make the perk useless. Survivors only need speed to escape, not really to sit on gens.
As for Deadweight only affecting healing, cleansing, and opening... Well, then it's kinda just a very limited use perk. I can understand weakening the effects of it, but the benefits would be minimal, and practically useless. Not to mention that exit gates are usually crowded with other survivors, and generators too.
I do also agree with maybe removing the debuffs of Fracture, and I sort of agree with red herring being debuffed. Though I still think it should go a bit further than 8 meters (maybe 16) and maybe more than 3 seconds of immunity (maybe 6). Because 8 meters and 3 seconds are bothe extremely weak amounts, which would really only lengthen a chase (as it would give you basically five seconds to get away, not really divert the killers attention)