Killer should be able to DC during Endgame
I personally don't see the Point in having to watch the Survivors jiggle their Physics at the Exit Gate.
Maybe you can put some other Conditions in. Like, that all Survivors are either injured or healthy. or at least not on a Hook.
but i don't see the point in forcing the Killer to either wait out the Survivors, or "try to get a Kill anyway" As if that is always that possible.
Does it help and teach good Habits? No. But we don't do that with Survivors either so who cares at this point.
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This has been brought up many times. BHVR says that the abandon feature is only meant to prevent people from being forced to stay in a game that is already lost and they can’t do anything, but that isn’t true at all. Survivors can leave for free if they get slugged three times no matter what stage of the match they are in. I see people abusing this to get out of matches they don’t want to be in all the time. If this is ok, then it should ok to let killers leave for free once the gates are open. Killer can stay if they want to try to secure another kill.
Except the Killer is in control of that situation, too. Even in endgame, even when the game is lost on the Killer's end, they are in control. That is the main difference that no one seems to understand.
The timer is 2 minutes, so if you are not going to interact with the survivors, press Tab and go make a coffee or use the bathroom.
So what if the killer is in control? Why do people demand that the killer must stay in the match to push the survivors out the gates? I think that’s the real question that many want to avoid answering. Literally the only reason to demand that the killer stay in the match is to increase the chance of toxic BMing at the gates. There’s no other reason, and honest people will admit that. I play both sides and I really do not care if killer is allowed to leave for free once the exit gates are powered. The match is over. If someone wants to provide an actual legit reason to require killers to stay in the match, I’m happy to listen.
This is what I always do. Either tab out or just go somewhere away from gates until timer expires. But as I said in my previous comment, there is no good reason to require the killer player to stay in the match once the gates are open.
That is the actual legit reason. If your only response to that is "So what?", then I don't know what to tell you.
I've seen killers get kills due to the survivor backflipping just a little too far from the exit gate and then getting a kill that way.
As long as this is the case, there is no reason for the killer to be able to abandon during the EGC, but BHVR will probably add it anyways.
I would just be patient, they haven't explicitly said no.
It makes no sense why that should negate the ability for killer to leave the match during EGC if they choose to. If the killer wants to keep playing, they still can! They are not forced to hit the abandon button if they want to keep playing to try to get more kills. The only reason you are against it is because you either want to force the killer to waste their time waiting out EGC or you want to force the killer to have to come to the gate to force you out while you teabag them.
The abandon feature allegedly exists to prevent hostage situations and extreme impediment of gameplay.
Case 1 - Four man slug in which the survivors have no chance of playing if no perks are in play.
Case 2 - A survivor being picked up and downed more than twice. This leaves them with waiting out the full timer and then getting potentially picked up or getting downed over and over again.
Case 3 - Survivors permanently hide and do not progress the gens, forcing the killer to search in an almost endless loop for more than 10 minutes
The EGC has nothing comparable to the above, any perceived harm is just a personal problem, if we add abandon clauses to these things, then the slope will be slippery on where it ends.
No it is not needed in the game, its a non issue. Just go do something else I personally just curve around as billy if the survivors are stubborn and wont leave, or hit em out if I really want to get a move on.
I don't want my matches ending randomly during end game.
yess I've done this with Flitty slippers numerous times because they get curious and come out the gate after I leave em.
The killers are not forced to abandon the match but if the killer leaves the survivors ARE forced to leave the match weather they chose to or not which is unfair. when survivors abandon the killer gets to choose weather they stay with bots or go next.
The only logical reason anyone would be against this is because they are entitled toxic manchildren who want to force their opponent into a humiliation ritual after beating them. BHVR could very easily add a basic killer bot, it's endgame, no one cares, and if you do, you're just exposing yourself.
I agree that the abandon feature should only be available to prevent hostage situations and extreme impediment of gameplay. Case 1 above I agree fits the definition. Case 2 - not even close and that’s one that gets frequently abused. Under no circumstances should survivors be able to quit for free because they are slugged a few times. Case 3 is technically against the game rules and bannable, but it’s never enforced. BHVR could easily implement solutions to prevent survivors from doing this (like showing auras if no gens are touched for a certain period of time), but they refuse to do it.
Survivors are currently able to abandon for several reasons that have nothing to do with game being held hostage or extreme impediment of gameplay. If you can agree that we get rid of basically everything except Case 1 above, then I think we could be on the same page.
That would easily be solved in the EGC situation, which is the only situation in which I think it’s ok for killer to be able to abandon. Either make it so the killer just stands still wherever they are until survivors, or use the existing AI killer capabilities to have the killer to go exit gates and try to M1 any survivors they find. This should be super easy for BHVR to do.
It's been said before but I'll say it again a situation where EGC is in play and all survivors aren't hooked or slugged I think it's fair to have an abandon option as the game is functionally over 90% of the time anyway. Just replace the killer with an afk bot when they dip and it pretty much doesn't affect gameplay at all and both sides are basically kept happy in this outcome.
I am not a developer, but I work in security and I'd imagine there would be a similar principle in that you design safeguards for the worst-case scenario as it only takes one instance to lose a customer for good.
In the event of a survivor getting slugged more than thrice in rapid succession, the amount of times it would fall into incidental bad luck and not targeted abuse is very slim, even less so the amount of players who would intentionally try and get slugged and picked up multiple times to go next.
As a killer, you can just hook them, as a survivor, you can just not heal them. So there is already agency involved for those interacting with a bad actor, but there still needs to be agency for the person who might be the victim of chain-slugging.
The abandon feature already exists and has minimal downsides for false-positives in my opinion, why would they go out of their way to develop an entirely new AFK system (never-mind the fact that the last one was a failure) when they could simply slap the abandon clause and resolve that specific issue entirely?
The system is fine as is, there is no need to change it, in fact, if we did add another clause, it would be a 2v1 situation allowing the slugged survivor to abandon.
Once a gate has been open for 60 seconds I think the killer should be able to resign. Not abandon. Resigning would give all remaining survivors full credit for escaping including the MMR gain and MMR loss for the killer.
If the killer is done trying all that's left for survivors to do is heal (which they probably have already done), cleanse dull totems, open chests and bm the killer which could include using Plot Twist to extend the timer. That's not gameplay worth preserving.
I also think slugs in the 2v1 scenario should be able to resign after 60 seconds.
Depends on the killer. Some M1 killers you can hit a survivor mid map and not have the ability to get the second hit if they have a straight path to an open exit.
Sure, if that could also be the case for survivors that abandon the moment all survivors are on hook or down.
No argument from me here. Currently, the abandon system is very poorly implemented. I think all abandons should affect MMR.
But they're still pushing the Survivors out. If the Killer really has lost all hope of getting a kill, they can push them out. Or they can choose not to and run around, break pallets, doors, etc. The same point applies to all these scenarios: the Killer is in control.
You still didn’t explain why we need to require the killer to stay in the match once the gates are open. For what purpose? Survivors are in control too and they can just leave at any time they want once the gates are open. You and others keep avoiding this point. Both sides have control over what is happening in this situation, which means that they both have the ability to waste the other sides’ time. Give both sides the ability to leave without penalty if they choose so they don’t have to be subject to the other side intentionally wasting their time.
Honestly I think you could go even further, why not let the killer abandon the moment the last generator is completed? I have so many matches against subtle cheaters that I've started to stopwatch my matches to prove I'm not paranoid, marking a lap for each generator that's finished. I just played a match that only took 4:52 to finish all 5 generators, which included using two pain res tokens, 2 pop goes the weasels, and that's also accounting for 3 survivors on hook throughout the match. No toolboxes or gen speed perks. Literally the gen I kicked with Pop was 40%, chased around it for 20 seconds with no one on it, chased away from it for another 20-30 seconds, boom, it was finished, just like that.
If this game's awful anti-cheat can't detect people remotely auto-completing generators in my face from half-way across the map (happened to me literally just days ago), then why should I be forced to spend 2 minutes chasing around cheaters who I'll never be able to catch in the endgame? It's insulting that I might have to spend more time after the last gen was popped trying to get what little bloodpoints I can than the time I spent in the actual trial. Its like, you can almost never catch them anyway, they make it near impossible with how they subtly speed up around corners to reach every pallet or window. I'd abandon 9 times out of 10 if the last gen is finished and I still have 3 hooks, like come on, the game is over. I fully agree its frustrating when survivors won't just leave and let the game be over.
BUT, there is a gargantuan issue with implementing something like this, and that is survivor players trying to do challenges, like escaping through the hatch or the exit gates, would get robbed of it almost every time if killers could just abandon the moment the endgame collapse starts. Its why realistically there's no justifiable reason to implement something like this. Would it be nice for the killer player to avoid wanting to put their fist through their monitor for an extended 2 minute humiliation tour? Sure, yeah. But its not great for the health of the game itself, the match cycle would be thrown off. It'd be like survivors being able to abandon as soon as they get downed on death-hook, which used to happen a lot before the disconnect penalties were added. It ruins the other players' fun if say for instance that downed survivor was about to get flashlight saved. Now you've got a braindead bot for the rest of the match because the survivor DC'd instantly thinking the game was over for them when it wasn't.
Wait, I am confused, is it just a coincidence that when ever I'm slugged on a 2v1 I can immediately abandon if I wish? Like the amount of times this has happened is pretty high for me when I'm playing survivor.
But I do have to disagree with your take on an earlier post. I think a killer should be allowed to, yes you can get a kill at EGC, but if we use your 2v1 idea, it shouldn't be allowed for the slugged survivor to abandon, because they have a chance at hatch no?
I find you asking the question to be rather genuine and wonderful. The problem some survivors have with it makes no sense?
Yes it's two minutes of wasting, but at the same time it's two minutes. Two minutes for someone who feels like they were steamrolled is never fun.
If all four are standing, it's not a win to even attempt to get a single kill. why should I attempt to push for them during EGC?
And I'm sure some people will state "well Bloodwarden, and exit blocking add-ons exist!" Having that every game is... Even more stale then my backpack build
Okay! That issue? I can agree with. Thank you for bringing it forward.
Abandoning can cause a major problem for those achievements/challenges. But at the same time let's be honest. Abandoning in general is a bit iffy on the health of the game as is?
This is something I forgot to mention, if killer bots were added, and it didn't end the game when killers abandon, then there'd really be nothing stopping this feature from being added.
Also just played against a cheater (I had around 50 ping he had around 40) where I'm on Wesker in Hawkins Lab, already a terrible map and killer combo. Still, chomping through 900 pallets, finally catch this guy playing Richter Belmont, already weird because who plays Trevor let alone buys the legendary character for him? Anyhow, I down him and manage to hook him twice, then right at the endgame, downing him at the last gen could mean turning the game around in what is currently a near-loss. I hit him mid-pallet drop animation, his animation bugs out and he just slides away from the pallet without dropping it and somehow had dead hard endurance in the same milisecond. Okay, maybe it was just a little desync, clicked his dead hard and pallet drop keys at the same time, I think it's happened before. Chase him for another 20 seconds, hit him through a pallet again, this time it actually drops but I downed him. He is on the ground for about half a second, then his player picture flashes with the downed icon, then he gets back up still in deep wound from when I hit him with dead hard. No adrenaline, because that would've removed deep wound. The guy just legitimately enabled invincibility. I lose the game with only one kill from some poor teammate that decided to trade hooks with the cheater, then the cheater calls me bad in endgame chat. Private profile on Steam of course, checked their SteamID online and they have under 200 hours but P100 Myers profile badge and P100 Trevor Belmont. Not a console account either. How am I getting so many cheaters in my games? It feels like its always when I'm playing Wesker too, its genuinely ruined the character for me. I miss grabs on dashes that clearly hit, I slide off of survivors or get stuck on random pixel collision on objects or walls. And even when none of that messes up my chases I'm getting so many cheaters that win anyway.
I genuinely wish killers didn't have a disconnect penalty at all because the game has legitimately become unplayable for me on killer this last month. My kill rate on most characters has plummeted from around 60-70 percent to the low 30's, and I never really cared about winning or slugging for the 4k, but now if I even get a whiff of winning I have to take it when I can get it if I want to ever reach Iridescent 1 on killer for the month.
This is most likely why that is not an option, however there is more argument to be made that being the slugged survivor in a 2v1 is pointless, even more so with finisher mori.
But then who are the survivors supposed to taunt when at absolute safety? Skin sales decrease with lessening levels of bully-dopamine
The elephant in the room with this is that if you did this, kill rates would CRASH. Endgame extremely heavily favors killer right now with how difficult saves are without comms and how easy it is to snowball. Botched saves can very frequently turn 0Ks in 2-3ks. Plus, it's one of the gameplay instances that actually encourages and incentivizes risk taking and interacting with the killer for survivor, which is a generally positive thing for gameplay. Which is also why most survivors outside of comp settings will do the 'stupid' thing and try to go for the save. People want actual gameplay and interaction, not the most boring path to min/maxing their 'score'.
Even if you restricted it to only if nobody's downed/hooked, that'd still allow someone currently chasing a survivor who'd inevitably be caught to abandon where otherwise they'd be hooked and lead to that gamestate. Plus, encourage them to not guard the hook in order to abandon faster. Perhaps it would be a net positive thing to remove the token 'pity' kill from stats, but it would be essentially removing the endgame whenever the killer FEELS like they're losing, whether or not they actually were, or if they would have turned it around off a survivor mistake. This would also have the knock-on effect of obliterating all killer endgame perks, because why bother with them? If you're losing, you don't need a comeback perk like NOED or a stall perk like NWO. Just leave.
The entirety of endgame needs to be completely rethought and reworked in any case, a drum I've beaten on a lot. Abandon for either side is a band-aid for unhealthy mechanics and design problems that a responsible developer would have quashed years ago, not encouraged and enshrined.
until bhvr adds killer bots there is a great reason. If survivors do not escape the gate they do not get their adepts. Challenges and achievements in which require gates to be opened. Like the rpd achievement requiring specific amount of gates to be opened.
A killer dcing or in this case abandoning at this moment would deny any and all of those.
until we get a killer bot, or achievement requirements are changed, killers should not be able to deny them.
In case some of you weren’t around prior to survivor bots killer adepts could be entirely denied by 1 survivor dc, this was also back when killer adepts were significantly harder to do if i may add.
I’m sorry but it felt awful back then doing killer adepts, i would be a hypocrite to not say this wouldn’t be fair for surviors. Especially solo q survivors who just get the brunt end of the stick in the majority of their matches.
As someone who has played Counterstrike for a decade, cheaters always find a way. I’m sure right after that hotfix and ban wave cheat developers already found a way to auto-unlock everything again and the guy I just faced is on a brand new account. Under 200 hours with 2 P100s is like a single prestige per hour played at my estimation, which is nuts. He had perks from other characters too which means he had to P1 a few other survivors too.
Idk, either way I’ve kinda been losing hope in the state of the game. Just wish BVHR would do something about the MMR system, pallet density, and probably hardest of them all, the anti-cheat. The lack of new content isn’t even that bothersome, I can suspend my disappointment with smaller, less exciting chapter releases if these other things were being worked on. Even when playing hopeless matches of comp Counterstrike against blatant cheaters I never felt such an overwhelming urge to disconnect from the game like I do playing killer on DbD lately. At least there’s some kind of enjoyment from outsmarting a cheater in a game like CS. In DbD when you get a cheater you might as well Alt-F4 and go play a different game, because unless if they decide to stay very subtle about it, there’s no way to outsmart them and get enjoyment out of the match.
Perhaps for the same reason Survivors are required to stay in a match if someone gets downed too early. Perhaps for the same reason Survivors are required to stay if someone gets tunneled out at 4-5 gens. Or in a 2v1 scenario, there's no hope for us to win at that point, so why are we required to stay?
I agree that they shouldn’t allow it unless there are killer bots to finish out the match. But it would be incredibly easy to program the bots to either stand still until everyone exits or patrol open gates and simply try to M1 any remaining survivors.
Nobody on either side should be allowed to abandon until the gates are open or until all survivors are dead/downed/hooked. People keep bringing up all these scenarios outside of EGC that aren’t relevant to this discussion. We’re talking about when the game is literally over, not when someone just feels like it’s over because they’re not doing well. It’s a bunch of whataboutisms and nobody offering a single legitimate reason that killer needs to be required to stay in the match ones the gates are open to wait for multiple minutes because people who are bad sports want to rub their win in the killer’s face.
except i gave you a valid reason, you even replied and agreed. just because one gate is open doesn’t mean everyones even in it, there are so many survivor challenges that require the killer to not give up for this to not be feasible.
There are challenges that require you to safely unhook a survivor while during the egc, and others.
There are challenges that require you to be the last person to leave.
Theres others that are escaping my memory at the moment but my point stands.
If the killer isn't one that can one shot, I've seen survivors hide and wait out the timer before. If they get found they take a hit and run out the gate.
bleed out is only 4 minutes just tab out and go make coffee or use the bathroom.
and i have 4 manned out from a full slug because i had unbreakable why can survivors abandon but killers cant. its favoritism and is just making the game more divided sense they say they care about survivors time but show they dont care about killers time. some people only have an hour to play and if 3 match's go 2 extra minutes longer because survivors want to hide or bm the killer they cant get in a 4th game.
ya and only survivors can keep the game hostage sense if you dont do the last gen and the killer cant get them they have to wait 10 minutes to abandon all because the survivors wanted to hold the killer hostage which has happened to me when i was new and i couldn't do anything but wait.
remove survivors ability to abandon then. why should there time be respected when killers isnt. and your match wouldnt end a bot would be put in the killers place the game isnt hosted by the killer any more.
there are killer bots at least for the 2v8 roaster and for the rest they could just put a bt that just wants and m1's
remove survivors ability to abandon then.No. they are not comparable unless I forgot the part where when the exit gates open the killer is not allowed to m1 or m2 anymore and can only slowly walk around the map and watch the survivors bagging.
why should there time be respected when killers isnt.AFK crows. the abandon option when gens are not being done. heck the whole end game timer is their to respect the killers time otherwise lets remove that too and force killer to hit people out to end the match if we just wanna respect nobody's time.
This really should not be a us vs them issue, their is a fundamental difference between wanting to abandon as soon as the exit gates are powered vs abandoning when everyone is slugged.
If its the multiple solo slug abandon that's the issue that's making people think its a double standard, sure lets remove that specific abandon option but then I don't wanna hear about abandoning just because the gates are powered anymore.
Your points are valid as long as there are not bot killers and the match ends immediately if the killer DCs. But this is an incredibly easy problem to fix by making very rudimentary AI bot killers for the EGC, which should be the only time killer is allowed to abandon without penalty.
I think this is a false flag.
I have earned my adept achievements on all the survivors I own and I have earned adepts when a killer DCs, as long as it's not in the first few minutes of a match. IIRC I got my Vee adept like that. I think if the game passes a certain threshold, probably 5 minutes, you can earn the adept if the killer DCs.
However, if that's not the case, which I admit it could be different on other platforms, that's why I advocate for the killer not being able to abandon right after opening the gate but 60 seconds after a gate has opened. If a survivor wants that adept, LEAVE.
I don't want to see killer bots because back when that code was in the backend hackers used it to make ridiculous killer bots. Also, I don't want to play against killer bots under any circumstances. I'd rather the match end prematurely or let me abandon vs killer bots.
@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD's idea of leaving the killer stationary without ending the match after they abandon would be fine compromise.
"No. they are not comparable unless I forgot the part where when the exit gates open the killer is not allowed to m1 or m2 anymore and can only slowly walk around the map and watch the survivors bagging."
for alot of killers it basicly is just having to push them out the game and survivors can be picked up or have anti slugging perks why should a bad pick up right infront of the killer let you abandon when there is stoll 3 minites on your bleed out timer and all gens done with 3 people up why should that person be allowed to abandon?
"AFK crows. the abandon option when gens are not being done. heck the whole end game timer is their to respect the killers time otherwise lets remove that too and force killer to hit people out to end the match if we just wanna respect nobody's time."
then why not add a abandon feature becasue sorry being stuck in a game for 10 minuts to be able to abandon or having to open the gate my self doesnt sound like they respect my time it makes it seem like survivors have all the power in htat senerio and killer just hast to usher them out basically saying the games closed leave. also the bleed out timer was added why can survivor abandon when the bleed out timer is there to respect there time.
'This really should not be a us vs them issue, their is a fundamental difference between wanting to abandon as soon as the exit gates are powered vs abandoning when everyone is slugged."
what's the diffrence both instances the games basically over the person could have a perk to turn it around and if they dont why cant they just abandon letting a bot deal with the bming and toxicity in endgame chat. its also not an us vs them issue its a devs respecting survivors time while showing they dont respect the killers time. this is an us vs the devs problem.
"If its the multiple solo slug abandon that's the issue that's making people think its a double standard, sure lets remove that specific abandon option but then I don't wanna hear about abandoning just because the gates are powered anymore."
or we can just let killers abanadon so they can queue up for another game and not deal with the bming.
Yeah unfortunately you'll get people that are HARD pressed to not give the abandon option when you are in a clear state of loss. And given BHVRs TOS on the game is EXTREMELY pick and choose-y in terms of who they can ban we should honestly allow killers to abandon while gates are open. Its always funny when people talk about anti-toxicity but if a killer dare not want to have their time wasted by people sitting in the exit gates and t-bag they suddenly pipe up and appear.
it is not a false flag as I’ve definitely not earned the when killers dc. Otherwise i would’ve got shanes adept first try.