The One Stop Shop for Legion ideas! Come on in and take a look...
So me and @LordGlint were talking about DBD and I told him that I was working on an Idea for Legion. I originally wanted something that hearkened back to there gang. Some kind of locker insanity or something but honestly, none of that would work, or at the very least it would be rather hard to put in game. So we started asking, what is Legion's main issue? Well, his power is kinda useless. By the time you slash one person, the rest have gone OR if they are injured they hear your TR and just book it.
First of all, let's take the removal of the blood trail in FF and the "M1s remove 50% of your power" things away. Those are silly and honestly, neither of us could come up with one good reason the Devs did that.
Secondly, DO NOT WORRY! We are not making his power lethal or put the chase on a "Timer". That is why people hated old Legion. We don't want that again.
So back to the main point. What do you do when you see Legion put deep wounds on someone nearby? You BOOK IT! You can't hide, but you can get away till they get hit with the end of power stun. Survivors know about There presence in advance in the general area... in other words the next victims.
So, you might be asking yourself, what do you do? Well it's simple! You could do one or more of these things!
- Remove his TR and red stain in FF. Just straight remove it so that he can run up on survivors and get them with FF and surprise them. Make the KI work on a radius. You could say there Frenzy is so great it cuts the ties the Entity have put on them for a limited time.
- (
Make his base TR 16 and his FF TR 24. Kinda a new approach to the same idea. This way would also open up Legion to be able to sneak up better on the people he has hit with his FF and need to m1 now to down. Legion is already the shortest Killer (yes, shorter than Hag) so they could FINALLY live up to the trailer and be even a LITTLE sneaky.) HI! This has been voted down by the others in the thread but keeping it up for Reference! - After hitting two survivors with Feral Frenzy the Legions red stain is removed for x amount of seconds which would help with downs. Third hit lowers terror radius by 8 meters for x amount of seconds which could help with hitting that last survivor. With monitor and abuse the terror radius will be 16 meters. Addons could influence this.
- First two survivors hit with Feral Frenzy grants 2% increased movement speed each while the third grants a 1% increase bringing their movement speed in Feral Frenzy up to 130%. (numbers might be too low?)
- At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like. (After rereading this one, it's kinda Meh, so it wouldn't be good enough on it's own.)
- If a survivor stops mending then they are downed. Deep wound timer depletes while doing an action (mending, repairing, sabotaging and so on) even while near the killer. If not doing an action the deep wound timer does not deplete while within 32 meters of the killer.
You hit someone with FF and run off to hit someone else. You hit them and end your frenzy or don't make it ti them and end the power. When out of FF you hear the heartbeat and see the KI mark for a very short amount of time (for balance) every x amount of seconds while that first survivor is mending. (this was more of an Example)After thinking about it, I think @Kabu changed this one to Add-on only. Let me know if i'm wrong Kabu!
Thank you @Kabu For the 3-7 ideas and the next few add-ons till you get to Mob Mentality! I forgot to credit them before! Sorry!
"But what about the stun?" Well, if you think about it, it's similar to Nurse. It's there to make sure that you don't just end it and m1. You MIGHT be able to shorten it, but it's not bad because it serves it's purpose.
Add on suggestions:
- Survivors are revealed by killer instinct for a very short amount of time every x amount of seconds while mending When out of FF. See previous post for explanation.
- Survivors suffering from deep wound make louder injured noises. (This should be base, also make unique pain sounds, IE: more grunts and long, drawn out groans of pain)
- Survivors have their aura revealed for x amount of seconds when they stop mending.
Frank's mix tape rework: Hitting a survivor with FF then hitting another one and going back to hit the first survivor depletes the deep wound bar by a large amount. Maybe doesn't fully deplete the Frenzy bar but would still stun Legion. Would still be hard to down with frenzy but it adds pressure.Sorry Kabu, but the more I think about it the more I doubt you'd get in this situation too often.- Increases FF duration tremendously (5 to 8 seconds) but with increased stun duration (.5 seconds to 1 second)
- Survivors hit with FF suffer from the hindered status effect for a short time.
Honestly, even with JUST these changes, We think that Legion would be in a better place AND keep the play style that Legion players love. Maybe even add old FF speeds back? Edit: we NEED the old Vaulting speeds back. Being looped while in FF is the SADDEST feeling.
Also shoutout to @Frosty for getting me to think of this in the first place and for wanting me to post it.
This doesn't have many thoughts on Mending and Deep Wounds, cause after BT got it too, it's no longer just a Legion Issue.
AND NOW for a REALLY good idea from @MongByeolBuddies
Here's my idea to help with, imo, Legion's two main problems:
* For killers, that’s getting a second hit and downing the survivor.
* For survivors, it's having to mend, which is boring and makes Legion obnoxious to go against.
My solution -- Change the Deep Wound status effect and give Legion a secondary power -- Mob Mentality.
-------------------------
Feral Frenzy:
Hitting a survivor not affected by the Deep Wound status effect during Feral Frenzy applies DW and gives Legion 1 charge of Mob Mentality.
Deep Wound now applies a 20 percent penalty to repair, healing and sabotage speeds.
Survivors now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.
Hitting a survivor affected by DW during Feral Frenzy applies 1 more DW. Survivors suffering from 4 Deep Wounds will enter the dying state. This will be tracked on the HUD.
Legion cannot use Mob Mentality during Feral Frenzy.
Legion can have up to 3 charges of Mob Mentality at one time.
------------------------
Mob Mentality:
Press the secondary power button to use 1 charge and summon a Legion member.
Any survivor within 16 meters of Legion will hear an audio cue -- a whistle -- when Mob Mentality is used.
The Legion member will appear 2 seconds later, crouched down in the spot you summoned him or her and wait for any survivor to get within range. When a survivor is within range, the Legion member will lunge at the survivor and attempt to hit them.
If a healthy survivor is hit, he or she will be injured; if an injured survivor is hit, he or she will enter the dying state.
Regardless of whether the hit connects, the Legion member will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.
Legion can summon all three other members this way. If Legion summons a member while all three members are currently on the map, the first member to be summoned will switch to the new location. Legion cannot summon members within 8 meters of another member.
Survivors within 16 meters of Legion members can detect them by looking in their direction for 3 seconds. During detection, survivors will receive an audio cue. Once fully detected, the Legion members will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.
If a survivor sets off a Mob Mentality trap, the Legion receives an audio and visual cue. If survivors fully detect a Legion member, the Legion does not receive an audio and visual cue.
Also, Mob Mentality is a trap so perks, such as Small Game, will work against it.
----------------------------------------------------
Add-on changes to reflect the new Deep Wound status effect and Mob Mentality:
Smiley Face Pin -- Start with 1 charge of Mob Mentality.
Defaced Smiley Pin -- Start with 1 charge of Mob Mentality. The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 3 seconds.
The Legion Pin -- Start with 2 charges of Mob Mentality. The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 5 seconds.
Nasty Blade -- Slightly increases the penalty to Repair, Healing and Sabotage speeds (5 percent) to survivors suffering from the Deep Wound status effect.
Filthy Blade -- Moderately increases the penalty to the Repair, Healing and Sabotage speeds (10 percent) to survivors suffering from the Deep Wound status effect.
Frank’s Mixed Tape -- Legion members are invisible to survivors outside of 8 meters.
Fuming Mixed Tape -- Legion no longer needs charges to use Mob Mentality. MM now has a 10-second cooldown. The Legion can no longer use Feral Frenzy.
-----------------------------------------------------
This will allow Legion to still be a rush down killer and buffs them by providing them a tool -- Mob Mentality -- to counter looping, as well as set ambushes.
This new change also allows Legion to use Mob Mentality whenever Legion wants (albeit not in Feral Frenzy), and the survivor will only be aware that Legion has used MM if the survivor is within 16 meters of Legion when MM is used.
The change to the DW status effect also means survivors no longer have to worry about mending. Survivors suffering from DW can heal themselves back to full health slightly slower than normal or the survivor can find a teammate not suffering from DW to heal back to full health without any speed penalty -- making going against Legion more enjoyable for survivors.
(This also would get rid of a few not strictly Legion problems: Nurse’s Calling not detecting mending and other anti-healing perks not affecting mending, and killers who can drop their terror radiuses like Freddy and The Pig making the DW timer tick down while still chasing a survivor, which feels cheap.)
(Borrowed Time can be changed to something like: After unhooking a Survivor within the Killer's Terror Radius, for 11/13/15 seconds, any damage taken that would put the unhooked Survivor into the Dying State will instead apply the Deep Wound status effect.)
Plus, I think it would be awesome for Legion to actually play like, you know, a Legion! Lastly, if possible, it would be extremely cool if the teammates you summoned could wear any cosmetics you’ve acquired, making it so you could customize the look of your own Legion.
And now a variation of the above by @pemberley !
I propose that we take the same concept of Mob Mentality but instead the member seizes and holds the survivor in place for the player to stab. Every player in the map gets a scream notification, the killer sees the aura too. The grasp is inescapable except through other flashlight or cracker saves, if the survivor has a cracker themselves, or if the survivor “wiggles” like normal and claws at their hand or elbows them in the face - this would disable the trap, I think this would be more in line with Legion, it’s lore friendly, and probably won’t require as much code spaghetti as making accurate ai.
Which Mong added that the grab could give them either Exposed/Oblivious or both cause they are fighting out of the grab! Even if it didn't there are Add-on ideas that could do it!
Comments
Honestly, this is the only 4.6m/s legion change that i like, but i would add some things
Feral frenzy should be available to cast at 50% of the bar.This way, the power becomes more flexible.
Also, why do you want franks mixtape and stab wounds study if you cant down someone by deep wounds?
Even though i like this idea, feral frenzy should be lethal by itself imo. There is no better feeling in this game than rushing a survivor down with feral frenzy.
Edit: I've read franks mixtape wrong and now that i get it it doesnt seem like a healthy add on at all. I think it needs change, but not that change that survivors are on a timer to go down and they cant do anything about it (old legion again with this add on).
Here's just an idea for Frank's mixtape but what if it became a token based add on
For every survivor you inflic deep wounds upon gain a token
When you get 8 tokens your next feral frenzy attack deals a whole state of damage to an injured survivor and doesn't apply deep wounds
+1/2 seconds fatigue as a downside
Hmm seems a bit Under powered... maybe less tokens?
Ahhh you are right about that. I'll draw a line through it later. I just got back from 6 hours in the ER and I want a break
6 hours in the emergency room? Jesus I hope you manage to recover from the wait alone soon
And maybe 5 or 4 tokens?
yeah, 5 should do. You RARELY ever get 4, so 8 felt like it was pushing it. Basically what happened is I have genetically weak teeth, and alot of them were bad. I've been in the process of getting all the top ones taken out so I can get fake teeth and went in and got the last 4 done today. Well.... it never stopped bleeding. In fact it was much much worse than Deep Wound blood all over your screen! (ha...) But after 6 hours of trying things like Gunshot bandages and stuff they finally got it to slow down enough to see an artery was nicked in my gum, and then they had to stitch it shut.... It's been a day.
Thank you for the feedback and that catch!
No problem, i hope you get better.
Danke. I will be now that I'm not losing all the blood in my body slowly.
and now an Idea from @KillermainBTWm8 !
Andddd @Sasori_puppet !
1. revert the vault speed nerf
2. revert the feral frenzy speed nerf but decrease the amount of time legion can stay in feral frenzy to prevent the legion traveling the whole map
3. make it so when you miss an attack in feral frenzy it won't cancel your power and you can just 28 stab the air
4. revert the legion heartbeat to 24 or don't
the only reason I enjoyed the old legion because he/she was fast the new one is very slow... it make the legion not enjoyable
Just two very small ideas that could be added in with others! Always good to get more ideas for tweaks too!
some perk rework ideas from @StarMoral
Discordance: Reverse the times per rank.
When 2 or more survivors are working on the same generator, the gen is highlighted and you are notified every 12/10/8 seconds.
Mad Grit: Meme Perk, go have some fun with it. I got no ideas.
Iron Maiden: Make faster opening baseline, extend Exposed, survivors scream AND have their aura shown.
You open locker 50% faster
When a survivor exits the locker, they scream, revealing their location for 3 seconds, and their aura is shown for 3/4/5 seconds.
They also suffer from the Exposed status effect for 40/50/60 seconds.
Really nice idea's here!
An idea update from @UlvenDagoth
Never forget.
so 115%, no losing power on miss, DW makes you take a penalty to eveything but mending, cooldown should be less, OR use the power when the bar isnt full
Considering you for the most part can't down survivors with Feral Frenzy, anymore, it'd be nice if missing an attack didn't cause you to go out of Feral Frenzy and stun yourself. It's so damn easy to miss attacks on console. I hardly use Feral Frenzy as Legion 'cause it really doesn't feel worth it, the accidental mid-chase stun is too costly.
Legion gets stunned longer at the end of his power longer than Wraith gets Lightburned.
#NeverForget
Can you please add the orange highlight back to frenzy slightly reduce the pulsing effect.
The pulsing effect literally makes it harder to determine where survivors are going in places that have corn or tall grass.
So not only those are the tall grass and corn obscuring your vision, you also have to deal with the frenzy speed boost effects obscuring your vision and on top of that I have the seizure strobe effect of killer instinct blocking my vision of which direction they're juking.
Also frenzy is no longer lethal. Hell even with a build specifically designed to make it lethal it's still not lethal so could you please remove the anti tracking on feral frenzy there's no reason to cover up scratch marks and blood stains anymore.
Also why in the hell do I get punished more for using my non lethal power than Wraith does for being killer blinded something that takes significantly longer to do so should punish the wraith player.
Lastly I get that you wanted to be inventive but can you please change the killer instinct range increase addons back to speed increase. Even with both the duration add-ons I can barely hit somebody on the edge of my terror radius the last thing I need to do is know if there are further unavailable targets. Also I can't use this to accurately predict if they are going to specific locations because you block aura reading during killer instinct.
By the way why the hell do you block aura reading during killer instinct. Especially when you have an add-on that literally requires me to be in frenzy to see specific gen aura changes. Which is a terrible add-on by the way because not only do I have to deal with frenzy timer + the fatigue time + power recovery when I'm trying to get an accurate reading of the gens but I also have to deal with the fact that if I hit anybody and activate killer instinct I might as well not be running the add-on.
Yep it's ridiculous especially considering that some people that consider the way Legion is currently to be perfectly fine or a good position
These are some great suggestions, I hope the dev's look through and think about it. Legion definitely could use some help.
I've stated this in other threads I'll state this again he just has way too many downsides for a power that is not able to down anyone you got some good suggestions here though!
AND WE ARE BACK! Hello everyone and welcome back to the ONE STOP SHOP FOR LEGION IDEAS! I hope this thread updates to the top finally!
Love it, cause the original power is nerfed and made better at the same time and legion is, legion, the 4 which you know what can be done....more.... customisations....edit all 4 people separately, I know this is old but I heard you had an idea and currently as a killer I find him good, this makes him better as a killer and easier to play against at the same time, it's incredible, awesome idea man
What I mean by easier is, it has clear counters if you do it right, and has clear dead zones that killers can use too, the asylum for instance, the long grass that Claudette can disappear in, lol legion has a few words to say, but certain spots that are good, survivors will be more aware of and alternate the route then detect
@UlvenDagoth why are you banned D: this conversation was so freaking good. Well, i will spam this to someone and it will eventually be noticed