The One Stop Shop for Legion ideas! Come on in and take a look...

So me and @LordGlint were talking about DBD and I told him that I was working on an Idea for Legion. I originally wanted something that hearkened back to there gang. Some kind of locker insanity or something but honestly, none of that would work, or at the very least it would be rather hard to put in game. So we started asking, what is Legion's main issue? Well, his power is kinda useless. By the time you slash one person, the rest have gone OR if they are injured they hear your TR and just book it.

First of all, let's take the removal of the blood trail in FF and the "M1s remove 50% of your power" things away. Those are silly and honestly, neither of us could come up with one good reason the Devs did that.

Secondly, DO NOT WORRY! We are not making his power lethal or put the chase on a "Timer". That is why people hated old Legion. We don't want that again.

So back to the main point. What do you do when you see Legion put deep wounds on someone nearby? You BOOK IT! You can't hide, but you can get away till they get hit with the end of power stun. Survivors know about There presence in advance in the general area... in other words the next victims.

So, you might be asking yourself, what do you do? Well it's simple! You could do one or more of these things!

  1. Remove his TR and red stain in FF. Just straight remove it so that he can run up on survivors and get them with FF and surprise them. Make the KI work on a radius. You could say there Frenzy is so great it cuts the ties the Entity have put on them for a limited time.
  2. (Make his base TR 16 and his FF TR 24. Kinda a new approach to the same idea. This way would also open up Legion to be able to sneak up better on the people he has hit with his FF and need to m1 now to down. Legion is already the shortest Killer (yes, shorter than Hag) so they could FINALLY live up to the trailer and be even a LITTLE sneaky.) HI! This has been voted down by the others in the thread but keeping it up for Reference!
  3. After hitting two survivors with Feral Frenzy the Legions red stain is removed for x amount of seconds which would help with downs. Third hit lowers terror radius by 8 meters for x amount of seconds which could help with hitting that last survivor. With monitor and abuse the terror radius will be 16 meters. Addons could influence this.
  4. First two survivors hit with Feral Frenzy grants 2% increased movement speed each while the third grants a 1% increase bringing their movement speed in Feral Frenzy up to 130%. (numbers might be too low?)
  5. At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like. (After rereading this one, it's kinda Meh, so it wouldn't be good enough on it's own.)
  6. If a survivor stops mending then they are downed. Deep wound timer depletes while doing an action (mending, repairing, sabotaging and so on) even while near the killer. If not doing an action the deep wound timer does not deplete while within 32 meters of the killer.
  7. You hit someone with FF and run off to hit someone else. You hit them and end your frenzy or don't make it ti them and end the power. When out of FF you hear the heartbeat and see the KI mark for a very short amount of time (for balance) every x amount of seconds while that first survivor is mending. (this was more of an Example) After thinking about it, I think @Kabu changed this one to Add-on only. Let me know if i'm wrong Kabu!

Thank you @Kabu For the 3-7 ideas and the next few add-ons till you get to Mob Mentality! I forgot to credit them before! Sorry!


"But what about the stun?" Well, if you think about it, it's similar to Nurse. It's there to make sure that you don't just end it and m1. You MIGHT be able to shorten it, but it's not bad because it serves it's purpose.

Add on suggestions:

  1. Survivors are revealed by killer instinct for a very short amount of time every x amount of seconds while mending When out of FF. See previous post for explanation.
  2. Survivors suffering from deep wound make louder injured noises. (This should be base, also make unique pain sounds, IE: more grunts and long, drawn out groans of pain)
  3. Survivors have their aura revealed for x amount of seconds when they stop mending.
  4. Frank's mix tape rework: Hitting a survivor with FF then hitting another one and going back to hit the first survivor depletes the deep wound bar by a large amount. Maybe doesn't fully deplete the Frenzy bar but would still stun Legion. Would still be hard to down with frenzy but it adds pressure. Sorry Kabu, but the more I think about it the more I doubt you'd get in this situation too often.
  5. Increases FF duration tremendously (5 to 8 seconds) but with increased stun duration (.5 seconds to 1 second)
  6. Survivors hit with FF suffer from the hindered status effect for a short time.

Honestly, even with JUST these changes, We think that Legion would be in a better place AND keep the play style that Legion players love. Maybe even add old FF speeds back? Edit: we NEED the old Vaulting speeds back. Being looped while in FF is the SADDEST feeling.

Also shoutout to @Frosty for getting me to think of this in the first place and for wanting me to post it.

This doesn't have many thoughts on Mending and Deep Wounds, cause after BT got it too, it's no longer just a Legion Issue.


AND NOW for a REALLY good idea from @MongByeolBuddies

Here's my idea to help with, imo, Legion's two main problems:

* For killers, that’s getting a second hit and downing the survivor.

* For survivors, it's having to mend, which is boring and makes Legion obnoxious to go against.

My solution -- Change the Deep Wound status effect and give Legion a secondary power -- Mob Mentality.

-------------------------

Feral Frenzy:

Hitting a survivor not affected by the Deep Wound status effect during Feral Frenzy applies DW and gives Legion 1 charge of Mob Mentality.

Deep Wound now applies a 20 percent penalty to repair, healing and sabotage speeds. 

Survivors now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.

Hitting a survivor affected by DW during Feral Frenzy applies 1 more DW. Survivors suffering from 4 Deep Wounds will enter the dying state. This will be tracked on the HUD.

Legion cannot use Mob Mentality during Feral Frenzy.

Legion can have up to 3 charges of Mob Mentality at one time.

------------------------

Mob Mentality:

Press the secondary power button to use 1 charge and summon a Legion member.

Any survivor within 16 meters of Legion will hear an audio cue -- a whistle -- when Mob Mentality is used.

The Legion member will appear 2 seconds later, crouched down in the spot you summoned him or her and wait for any survivor to get within range. When a survivor is within range, the Legion member will lunge at the survivor and attempt to hit them.

If a healthy survivor is hit, he or she will be injured; if an injured survivor is hit, he or she will enter the dying state.

Regardless of whether the hit connects, the Legion member will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.

Legion can summon all three other members this way. If Legion summons a member while all three members are currently on the map, the first member to be summoned will switch to the new location. Legion cannot summon members within 8 meters of another member.

Survivors within 16 meters of Legion members can detect them by looking in their direction for 3 seconds. During detection, survivors will receive an audio cue. Once fully detected, the Legion members will dissipate in a cloud of smoke.

If a survivor sets off a Mob Mentality trap, the Legion receives an audio and visual cue. If survivors fully detect a Legion member, the Legion does not receive an audio and visual cue.

Also, Mob Mentality is a trap so perks, such as Small Game, will work against it.

----------------------------------------------------

Add-on changes to reflect the new Deep Wound status effect and Mob Mentality:

Smiley Face Pin -- Start with 1 charge of Mob Mentality.

Defaced Smiley Pin -- Start with 1 charge of Mob Mentality. The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 3 seconds.

The Legion Pin -- Start with 2 charges of Mob Mentality. The auras of survivors who fully detect a Legion member or are hit by him or her are revealed for 5 seconds.

Nasty Blade -- Slightly increases the penalty to Repair, Healing and Sabotage speeds (5 percent) to survivors suffering from the Deep Wound status effect.

Filthy Blade -- Moderately increases the penalty to the Repair, Healing and Sabotage speeds (10 percent) to survivors suffering from the Deep Wound status effect.

Frank’s Mixed Tape -- Legion members are invisible to survivors outside of 8 meters.

Fuming Mixed Tape -- Legion no longer needs charges to use Mob Mentality. MM now has a 10-second cooldown. The Legion can no longer use Feral Frenzy.

-----------------------------------------------------

This will allow Legion to still be a rush down killer and buffs them by providing them a tool -- Mob Mentality -- to counter looping, as well as set ambushes. 

This new change also allows Legion to use Mob Mentality whenever Legion wants (albeit not in Feral Frenzy), and the survivor will only be aware that Legion has used MM if the survivor is within 16 meters of Legion when MM is used.

The change to the DW status effect also means survivors no longer have to worry about mending. Survivors suffering from DW can heal themselves back to full health slightly slower than normal or the survivor can find a teammate not suffering from DW to heal back to full health without any speed penalty -- making going against Legion more enjoyable for survivors. 

(This also would get rid of a few not strictly Legion problems: Nurse’s Calling not detecting mending and other anti-healing perks not affecting mending, and killers who can drop their terror radiuses like Freddy and The Pig making the DW timer tick down while still chasing a survivor, which feels cheap.) 

(Borrowed Time can be changed to something like: After unhooking a Survivor within the Killer's Terror Radius, for 11/13/15 seconds, any damage taken that would put the unhooked Survivor into the Dying State will instead apply the Deep Wound status effect.)

Plus, I think it would be awesome for Legion to actually play like, you know, a Legion! Lastly, if possible, it would be extremely cool if the teammates you summoned could wear any cosmetics you’ve acquired, making it so you could customize the look of your own Legion.

And now a variation of the above by @pemberley !

I propose that we take the same concept of Mob Mentality but instead the member seizes and holds the survivor in place for the player to stab. Every player in the map gets a scream notification, the killer sees the aura too. The grasp is inescapable except through other flashlight or cracker saves, if the survivor has a cracker themselves, or if the survivor “wiggles” like normal and claws at their hand or elbows them in the face - this would disable the trap, I think this would be more in line with Legion, it’s lore friendly, and probably won’t require as much code spaghetti as making accurate ai.

Which Mong added that the grab could give them either Exposed/Oblivious or both cause they are fighting out of the grab! Even if it didn't there are Add-on ideas that could do it!

Comments

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/770127#Comment_770127

    I am not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting Stridor base kit, as an add-on, or as part of just a build?

    build. It would be insanely loud if you had stridor on with this change

  • @8obot1c said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/770131#Comment_770131

    build. It would be insanely loud if you had stridor on with this change

    Which change?

  • Welp, I'm sick as a dog so I wont be likely to think up any more ideas for Legion for a bit. But if you HAVE an idea or want me to add it to the front or something LET ME KNOW! I will be here!

  • But good news! BHVR has read this thread!

  • Okay, quick thought. Why is it so punishing to miss as Legion? You lose your power AND get stunned.

    I don't think there is another Killer that has this issue, right?

  • Also one more thing for the people that want Old Legion back... some quotes I found about them at the time:

    Also, Legion OP? Annoying, for sure, but he's still trash and requires an exploit to be decent. Or Frank's Mixtape.

    I'm sorry, but how does anybody find Legion OP? Even the devs specifically stated they made him for fun more than competency.

    Most loopable killer in the game, cannot down people with his power unless you use Frank's Mix Tape (a purple add-on by the way, and still need to hit people 3 times with it), mending not being a healing action ruins any good perk builds you can make, the power doesn't recharge fast enough and doesn't last long enough, too slow to chase people without his power, do I need to go on? This killer is a joke, nobody's afraid of them. This killer is a literal door mat even for the worst of survivors. Even at what this killer is supposedly good at (injuring multiple people at once), it does nothing in the long run since good survivors always split up. 

    he's just so terrible it's unfathomable to me

    But yeah Legion is a trash can of a killer and BHVR should be ashamed of making a useless killer.


    The Devs are even QUOTED as saying they built Old Legion for Fun, not to be good. Which is like in "Kung Pow: Enter the fist" where they taught that one guy wrong as a joke.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved the FEELING of Old Legion and I still enjoy New Legion. But Old Legion was still really bad. It just feels like it was "Glorious" cause we are stuck with this crippled version we have now. We need good buffs and tweaks. (Some would argue a full on rework. I'm not sure, though Mob Mentality is still REALLY cool in concept and i'd like to see something that used the LEGION part of it.... without any stupid locker stuff)

    Devs, take your time and really plan out what you do with Legion. Just fixing add-ons isnt enough, but I don't want you to rush either. Look through all the thoughts here and other places, take input from Legion mains, and give us something both Fun and Good (because it can be both) that keeps the "Rush Down" or "Blitz" attack play style. I know you can do it. @Peanits @not_Queen

  • Here I am. Aside from my suggestions on how to buff Legion made in another topic, I have two objections about what’s written here.


    Point 5: At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like.

    And the sentence:

    “Survivor now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.“

    Both these points would be a huge buff to Self-care and we don’t want that. Mending should stay as a base action performed by all perkless survivors.

  • @PGJSF said:

    Here I am. Aside from my suggestions on how to buff Legion made in another topic, I have two objections about what’s written here.

    Point 5: At base, being hit with Feral Frenzy causes mangled that persists until fully healed. Can't be stacked with other mangled status effects like sloppy butcher but works with coulraphobia and the like.

    And the sentence:

    “Survivor now remove the DW status effect by healing to full health, not by mending. DW lasts indefinitely.“

    Both these points would be a huge buff to Self-care and we don’t want that. Mending should stay as a base action performed by all perkless survivors.

    Ohh interesting. Why would the first be a buff to self care, if it gives mangled?

    That seconds one was to add balance to the secondary power he was suggesting.

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771814#Comment_771814

    Ohh interesting. Why would the first be a buff to self care, if it gives mangled?

    That seconds one was to add balance to the secondary power he was suggesting.

    Not because it adds Mangled, but because in both those points you take away Mending and put Healing instead. How do a survivor heal himself? Self-Care. So giving a fast, easy to hit, avoiding loop killer a power that forces you to heal yourself, you are giving an enormous buff to SC.

  • @PGJSF said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771822#Comment_771822

    Not because it adds Mangled, but because in both those points you take away Mending and put Healing instead. How do a survivor heal himself? Self-Care. So giving a fast, easy to hit, avoiding loop killer a power that forces you to heal yourself, you are giving an enormous buff to SC.

    He wanted to avoid mending cause that's one reason Survivors seem to hate them. Did you read all of this idea?

    If they are over there SCing then i'll be cool with them wasting time. Unless, and I admit it can happen, I am missing something.

  • All of that would make SC mandatory against Legion and SC would be even more meta. Again, I don’t think we want that. Survivors seem to hate mending yeah but they hate everything. They don’t hate mending so much when it’s from BT.

  • @PGJSF said:

    All of that would make SC mandatory against Legion and SC would be even more meta. Again, I don’t think we want that. Survivors seem to hate mending yeah but they hate everything. They don’t hate mending so much when it’s from BT.

    Well if you tell survivors it's meta now you will get laughed at. "SC in 2019?"

    I don't know, but I do see where you are coming from. Would you like to give your own thoughts here about some number changes or buffs?

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771846#Comment_771846

    Well if you tell survivors it's meta now you will get laughed at. "SC in 2019?"

    I don't know, but I do see where you are coming from. Would you like to give your own thoughts here about some number changes or buffs?

    I actually see SC a lot. Probably more than they like to admit lol.

    BTW yes, as I already said on the other topic, Deep Wound should apply the Oblivious status effect and Mending should be considered a healing actions. I am convinced that these two changes alone would move Legion from “bottom” to “mid” tier.

    I also think, like everyone else, that most of his addons are in need of a rework. I don’t have many ideas, but here we go.

    1. Some addons should enhance Legion’s movement speed while in Feral Frenzy in some way.
    2. Apply the Broken status effect on a time limit could stay, but should be easier to accomplish. Hitting twice the same survivor just to process Broken is pointless since he’s going to be injured and in front of you anyway.
    3. Those addons that improve the duration of FF should simply be buffed.
    4. Frank’s Mixtape should make Legion Undetected while in FF.
    5. I feel we could use a purple addon to see scratchmarks.
    6. We could also use a green which applies Exhaustion on DW.

    Also I fully agree on having a shorter cooldown for FF and removing the M1 penalty.

  • @PGJSF said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771854#Comment_771854

    I actually see SC a lot. Probably more than they like to admit lol.

    BTW yes, as I already said on the other topic, Deep Wound should apply the Oblivious status effect and Mending should be considered a healing actions. I am convinced that these two changes alone would move Legion from “bottom” to “mid” tier.

    I also think, like everyone else, that most of his addons are in need of a rework. I don’t have many ideas, but here we go.

    1. Some addons should enhance Legion’s movement speed while in Feral Frenzy in some way.
    2. Apply the Broken status effect on a time limit could stay, but should be easier to accomplish. Hitting twice the same survivor just to process Broken is pointless since he’s going to be injured and in front of you anyway.
    3. Those addons that improve the duration of FF should simply be buffed.
    4. Frank’s Mixtape should make Legion Undetected while in FF.
    5. I feel we could use a purple addon to see scratchmarks.
    6. We could also use a green which applies Exhaustion on DW.

    Also I fully agree on having a shorter cooldown for FF and removing the M1 penalty.

    Not bad ideas! I don't think I have an exact "Add-on" post yet, but you got my approval on these!

    Other than ONE thing. "Oblivious" would get rid of the TR... making moonwalking Legion a thing again. So would the Frank's Mix tape effect.

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771894#Comment_771894

    Not bad ideas! I don't think I have an exact "Add-on" post yet, but you got my approval on these!

    Other than ONE thing. "Oblivious" would get rid of the TR... making moonwalking Legion a thing again. So would the Frank's Mix tape effect.

    You are so right I didn’t think about that. So, I’ll rephrase: the mending action should make the survivor oblivious, not the DW status.

  • @PGJSF said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771908#Comment_771908

    You are so right I didn’t think about that. So, I’ll rephrase: the mending action should make the survivor oblivious, not the DW status.

    My intention was, from the start, to allow legion to sneak up on mending survivors, not to bring back the old Legion. So yeah Oblivious while mending works better and solves the issue.

  • @PGJSF said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771920#Comment_771920

    My intention was, from the start, to allow legion to sneak up on mending survivors, not to bring back the old Legion. So yeah Oblivious while mending works better and solves the issue.

    Got ya. I'll update it for ya! Is that base idea or for Frank's?

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771928#Comment_771928

    Got ya. I'll update it for ya! Is that base idea or for Frank's?

    No I suggested Frank’s for Undetected, not for Oblivious.

    To recap:

    The Mending action should be considered a healing action and should make the survivor Oblivious. This would allow Legion to stealth on mending survivors while he is NOT in FF.

    Frank’s should make Legion Undetected during Feral Frenzy. This would allow Legion to not get juked out of his power while HE IS in FF.

    Please note that the Frank’s change wouldn’t affect TR perks so much since he would be in FF anyway. No BT nerf here.

  • @PGJSF said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771937#Comment_771937

    No I suggested Frank’s for Undetected, not for Oblivious.

    To recap:

    The Mending action should be considered a healing action and should make the survivor Oblivious. This would allow Legion to stealth on mending survivors while he is NOT in FF.

    Frank’s should make Legion Undetected during Feral Frenzy. This would allow Legion to not get juked out of his power while HE IS in FF.

    Please note that the Frank’s change wouldn’t affect TR perks so much since he would be in FF anyway. No BT nerf here.

    Well "Undetected" means no TR as well. So FF, then FF backwards. You know someone will do it!.... that being said it would be much rarer... Might not even help too much. Huh, alright.

    Though it does come back to my Idea of giving Legion no TR in FF. I had to mess with that ALOT to get it to work.

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771942#Comment_771942

    Well "Undetected" means no TR as well. So FF, then FF backwards. You know someone will do it!.... that being said it would be much rarer... Might not even help too much. Huh, alright.

    Though it does come back to my Idea of giving Legion no TR in FF. I had to mess with that ALOT to get it to work.

    No wait I don’t get what you mean by “FF backwards”

  • @PGJSF said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771945#Comment_771945

    No wait I don’t get what you mean by “FF backwards”

    Oh to keep them from being in a chase. Like Old Legion but only in FF. Honestly now that i've thought about it, who would Feral Frenzy backwards to do this?

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771951#Comment_771951

    Oh to keep them from being in a chase. Like Old Legion but only in FF. Honestly now that i've thought about it, who would Feral Frenzy backwards to do this?

    Who cares if Legion is making Old Legion WHILE in FF? He can’t down me.

  • @PGJSF said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771958#Comment_771958

    Who cares if Legion is making Old Legion WHILE in FF? He can’t down me.

    True enough I suppose. Just thinking of people yelling about running Mending timers down. Ya prolly right though. The more I thought about it the more it seemed like a waste of time for that Legion. Like camping is for all Killers! (other than MAYBE Bubba)

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771961#Comment_771961

    True enough I suppose. Just thinking of people yelling about running Mending timers down. Ya prolly right though

    You mean like, FF Legion following you without hitting you just to let the timer go down? Because in that case you would just mend and wait for legion to take the stun.

  • IMO Legion needs a power that can down survivor and that can let you hit survivors more often

  • @PGJSF said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/771963#Comment_771963

    You mean like, FF Legion following you without hitting you just to let the timer go down? Because in that case you would just mend and wait for legion to take the stun.

    Yeah that's what i thought of!

  • @GodNap said:

    IMO Legion needs a power that can down survivor and that can let you hit survivors more often

    HOw would you do it in a balanced way while making the KIller still good though? (And keeping the Rush down playstyle)

  • so um, if my posting slows down i'm really sick at the moment. A few other issues too, but don't worry, I'll still be reviewing anything put here.

    We are The Legion and we stick together. Have Fun in the Fog everyone.

  • Legion Head canon:

    Legion is the least ######### up looking characters, so the Entity didn't have to try hard to get them to work with it. Likely threatened to hurt the others to get them to cooperate. The nerfs are Legion 's lack of really trying cause they still are able to resent the Entity's control cause it didn't have to break them.


    Sorry, this has been on my mind all day and I had to put it somewhere!

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    Legion Head canon:

    Legion is the least ######### up looking characters, so the Entity didn't have to try hard to get them to work with it. Likely threatened to hurt the others to get them to cooperate. The nerfs are Legion 's lack of really trying cause they still are able to resent the Entity's control cause it didn't have to break them.

    Sorry, this has been on my mind all day and I had to put it somewhere!

    That's my thinking too. Those not as messed up didn't need as much "convincing" to kill and torture for the entity.

  • @Kabu said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772977#Comment_772977

    That's my thinking too. Those not as messed up didn't need as much "convincing" to kill and torture for the entity.

    I do hope then that we can use these ideas to... .reinspire Legion to try to be the best again!

    as long as they keep the playstyle we love.

    Also, for head canon as well, I tend to go easier on people at Ormand, cause I feel Legion would be more... nostalgic there.

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/772983#Comment_772983

    I do hope then that we can use these ideas to... .reinspire Legion to try to be the best again!

    as long as they keep the playstyle we love.

    Also, for head canon as well, I tend to go easier on people at Ormand, cause I feel Legion would be more... nostalgic there.

    Would Frank feel nostalgic?

  • Honestly, I'm not sure what Frank feels. If he is straight up a sociopath, then it's doubtful, but it's hard to tell.

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    Hey! I decided to make this a area for smaller changes to the Legion that I agree with! Though I see these as more of a buff than a rework, they still keep to what I'd like to see in a Legion update. Would be good for "Bite Size" updates to try and help Legion!

    now and idea from @TWiXT

    Honestly Legion was, without any doubt, pretty broken at release, but what the devs have done to them has been less of a balance for them, and more of an overkill reaction to the communities complaints. Don't get me wrong, many of the complaints against Legion were well founded, and I wouldn't go so far as to give them back their previous abilities, but a nice middle ground that makes their power a threat again would be welcomed in my book.

    I have read your suggestions, and while I like them, I feel it's probably better to start smaller on things to try and make the Legion more viable. For this I'll offer my own 2 suggestions:

    1. Give Legion back their previous movement and vaulting speeds. In the current build the Legion only benefits from afflicting DW to survivors if they can effectively chain the affliction to multiple survivors on the team. This is impossible in most circumstances currently, due to their slower movement and vaulting speeds, which give survivors far too much wiggle room to evade the Legion until their power runs out. The original version of the Legion still had this problem, but a good player could manage to get all 4 on a mid sized map before their power ran out. This emphasized skill and incentive to try for the 4 hits because it was a possibility with the right add-on's. Current Legion however only does this when the map is very small, or if every survivor is focusing on the same gen, but even then, they typically only hit 2 at the most due to survivors scattering like cockroaches as soon as the first one is struck. Current Legion moves at 5 m/s while in frenzy, whereas old Legion moved at 5.25m/s. Old Legion also Vaulted at the same rate survivors did, but current Legion Vaults at .5 seconds slower than they do, or at the same rate Bamboozle grants to a killer. Comparatively, Old Legions main advantage was the ability to catch up and keep up with survivors, but they also had a 2 second cooldown to slow them down, with that currently increased to 4 seconds, I see no reason why they need to be any slower in Frenzy.
    2. Reduce the Deep Wounds timer from 30 seconds, to 10. When Legion was changed the Devs already did enough to reduce the Deep Wounds Status effect from a threat to being completely non-threatening, simply by making the timer pause whenever in the killers TR, and making it pause again while the survivor mends. The fact that it retained its 30 second timer is a grossly unjustified at this point. The TR pause alone already killed the possibility of a Legion player "Moonwalking" to allow the timer to bleed them out, but the pause on the mend timer... seriously? As if a survivor outside of the Legions TR and thus out of immediate danger isn't going to immediately start mending? If the timer were 10 seconds instead of 30, survivors would have to pay much more attention to the DW status, and be much more vigilant to mend as soon as they are out of the TR. The Franklin's Mix tape also could benefit in this effect if it reduced the timer by 5 second, which would make a 2 hit + 4 second stun much more worth while if the survivor left the killers TR, and thus make the add-on significant;y more useful than it currently is (by my calculations, to down a survivor with the current FMT add-on, Legion would need to relentlessly pursue and keep striking a survivor for 80+ seconds). IMO, This would make the DW status effect a threat again, and TBH, that is what the Legion really needs right now... to have a power that is either more beneficial to their map control, or a dire and looming threat to survivors affected by it at all times.

    There's my 2 cents on the initial and minor buffs I believe the devs should test in an upcoming PTB in order to try and bring Legion more viability than they currently have. It's not much, but the way I see it, Legions game mechanics have always been on a knifes edge since day one. Sway only a little from 1 side to the other and you go from being pathetic to OP or vice versa. Finding a balance with that is really tricky, and doing it right means taking small steps... to that end I feel that either of these minor changes are a good place to start.

    Now an idea from @Deadeye

    If we stay with the new version of Legion, I would also suggest a Power rework. If not, at least the following changes might help:

    • put bleed out survivors into the same state like Madness 3, so they need to mend before they can do anything else. Almost everyone knows that the first Frenzy hit will make Legion run away from you, so many survivors just run to the closest gen, knowing Legion chases someone else and being save as long as inside the TR. Which is kinda stoopid
    • When hitting bleeding survivors in Frenzy, there should be any effect applied by default. It is simply unfair that Legion is the only killer that gets punished for using his power. I have seen bleeding survivors body block healthy survivors to cancel the power, without taking any negative effect for that. That should not be the case.
    • There are a lot of easy loops that can be abused by running it 3 times to run out of Frenzy. Even the killer shack offers this possibility. If Frenzy does not even help to get easier first hits and just is about the "information", it is really the most useless power of all. increase the vaulting speed again.
    • I loved the slashing of old Legion but also understand the change to break the power after a miss. But I would suggest to just reduce the power gauge for each hit. Like 10% after a click and 25% after a lunge. Or something like that. Of course adjustable but don't forget that on average the "running" still will take like 60-80% of the power.
    • Fun Fact: talking about "running", a trapper with 3 stacks of Play With Your Food walks faster than Legion is running in Feral Frenzy.

    That last one makes me sad, btw.

    Another interesting Idea from @Dreamnomad ! Numbers might need some work though. At the bottom cause it's more DW then Legion.

    I want to see for Legion is for their to be some effect when hitting a survivor with deep wounds while in frenzy. It makes absolutely no logical sense for there to be zero effect when a survivor is stabbed. What I propose is for there to be a new effect introduced in the game. For now let's call it "nerve damage". A survivor with nerve damage has 30% reduced speed for all actions (including mending) until fully healed or placed on a hook. This would give Legion a choice and a reason to ignore a survivor.

    Also, maybe adding a reduction to repair speed (etc.) while a survivor needs to Mend. I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere but I wanna put it here and can't find it.

    and idea from @PGJSF !

    BTW yes, as I already said on the other topic, Mending should apply the Oblivious status effect should be considered a healing action. I am convinced that these two changes alone would move Legion from “bottom” to “mid” tier. (I like the ideas! But I think they should also come with an increase to base FF MS and Vaulting speeds!- {Ulven})

    Add-ons!

    These are by @PGJSF !

    I also think, like everyone else, that most of his addons are in need of a rework. I don’t have many ideas, but here we go.

    1. Some addons should enhance Legion’s movement speed while in Feral Frenzy in some way.
    2. Apply the Broken status effect on a time limit could stay, but should be easier to accomplish. Hitting twice the same survivor just to process Broken is pointless since he’s going to be injured and in front of you anyway.
    3. Those addons that improve the duration of FF should simply be buffed.
    4. Frank’s Mixtape should make Legion Undetected while in FF.
    5. I feel we could use a purple addon to see scratchmarks.
    6. We could also use a green which applies Exhaustion on DW.

    Also I fully agree on having a shorter cooldown for FF and removing the M1 penalty.

    Tell me what yall think!

    Nice work its good

  • I've been following this thread for a while, and I'm glad to see a big Legion thread has been created. Hopefully the devs pay these ideas a thought.

    My ideas:


    Frenzy: Increase vaulting speed back to original speed. Increase speed to 135% but lower length by 2 seconds. Reduce cooldown to 3 seconds. Every successful hit on a non-deep wounded survivors reduces cooldown by .5 seconds. Missed attacks reduce 50% of the meter. Landing a successful hit no longer reduces the power gauge. The power gauge now refills in 15 seconds instead of 20. Terror Radius is reduced to 24 meters during Frenzy. The red-outline on survivors marked by Killer Instinct will be displayed once again.


    Deep Wounds: While inflicted, the survivor can not preform actions such as repairing, healing others, or breaking totems. Mending now has skill checks. Failing a Mending skill check will interrupt the action and reduce 30% of the meter, or down the survivor if there is less than 30% remaining. Deep Wounds Time reduced to 10 seconds. Feral Frenzy attacks reduce Deep Wounds by 2.5 seconds, however the meter cannot be reduced under 2.5 seconds this way. Deep Wounds reduces while mending, however, the survivor will not be downed if they are mending when the time reaches 0, but while be downed if they cancel mending. Mending time is also increased by 5 seconds.


    I am more than willing to hear feedback or justify any changes people may have inquiries about. Have a good one.

  • @KnifeaToMeetYaXD said:

    I've been following this thread for a while, and I'm glad to see a big Legion thread has been created. Hopefully the devs pay these ideas a thought.

    My ideas:

    Frenzy: Increase vaulting speed back to original speed. Increase speed to 135% but lower length by 2 seconds. Reduce cooldown to 3 seconds. Every successful hit on a non-deep wounded survivors reduces cooldown by .5 seconds. Missed attacks reduce 50% of the meter. Landing a successful hit no longer reduces the power gauge. The power gauge now refills in 15 seconds instead of 20. Terror Radius is reduced to 24 meters during Frenzy. The red-outline on survivors marked by Killer Instinct will be displayed once again.

    Deep Wounds: While inflicted, the survivor can not preform actions such as repairing, healing others, or breaking totems. Mending now has skill checks. Failing a Mending skill check will interrupt the action and reduce 30% of the meter, or down the survivor if there is less than 30% remaining. Deep Wounds Time reduced to 10 seconds. Feral Frenzy attacks reduce Deep Wounds by 2.5 seconds, however the meter cannot be reduced under 2.5 seconds this way. Deep Wounds reduces while mending, however, the survivor will not be downed if they are mending when the time reaches 0, but while be downed if they cancel mending. Mending time is also increased by 5 seconds.

    I am more than willing to hear feedback or justify any changes people may have inquiries about. Have a good one.

    Honestly I rather like these changes. The mending ones for sure! I like that you get a reward of reducing your stun after FF if you hit people. It really makes it feel more rewarding. I think this would be a GOOD idea for smaller changes that would help Legion so it's going to the front page! Let me know if you edit it any!

  • Keep the good ideas coming! I love seeing everyone so passionate about this like i am!

  • In continuation to my previous post, I will also be listing off ways to changes Legion's addons. However do note that these addons are based of MY CHANGES. So an addon that might not make sense currently, WOULD make sense with my changes. Please give any feedback or questions as I will gladly answer them :D


    Common Addons:

    Smiley Face Pin: Gives Blindness for 120 seconds and is done on Intial FF hit.

    Scratched Ruler: No change

    Mischief List: Increases Duration by 1 second

    Friendship Bracelet: Increase Killer Instinct by 4m, and increase FF movement speed by 3%

    Uncommon Addons:

    Never-Sleep Pills: Increase Killer Instinct by 8m, and Increase FF movement speed by 4%

    Mural Sketch: Increase FF duration by 1.75 seconds

    Julie's Mixtape: Increase vaulting speeds during FF by 10%

    Etched Ruler: FF refills 4 seconds faster

    Defaced Smiley Pin: Gives Mangled for 120 seconds and is done on intial FF hit

    Rare Addons:

    The Legion Pin: Gives Broken status effect for 120 seconds and is done on intial FF hit

    Susie's Mixtape: Increases Killer Instinct by 16m and increases FF movement speed by 5%

    Stolen Sketchbook: Increases FF Duration by 2.5 seconds

    Nasty Blade: Considerably reduce Mending Skill Check Zones sizes, and increase failure penalty to 50% of Deep Wounds timer

    Joey's Mixtape: Increases vaulting speed during FF by 20%

    Very Rare Addons:

    Stab Wounds Study: Hitting a Deep Wounded survivor with FF reduces the time to 2.5 seconds instantly

    Frank's Mixtape: Pallets dropped on the Legion during FF are instantly broken. Stun time from FF and pallets dropped on the Legion during FF increased to 3.5 seconds

    Filthy Blade: Tremendously reduce Mending Skill Check zones sizes, and failing a skill check will down the survivor regardless of how much is left on their timer

    Cold Dirt: The cooldown time is reduced by .75 seconds instead of .5 seconds for the first 2 survivors inflicted with Deep Wounds

    Ultra Rare Addons:

    Iridescent Button: The terror radius and Killer Instinct cover the entire map, pallets vaulted are broken, and FF movement speed is increased by 10%. FF duration is reduced by 2 seconds

    Fuming Mixtape: Windows vaulted during FF are blocked for its duration and 10 seconds after it. Scratch Mark's and blood are now visible, however Killer Instinct cannot be triggered. Hitting a survivor will injure them or down them if they are already injured. Missing an attack will end the power. Hitting a survivor will end the power. FF duration increased by 2 seconds, charge time is increased by 15 seconds.


    Thanks for the read, and sorry for the mouthful X)

  • @KnifeaToMeetYaXD said:

    In continuation to my previous post, I will also be listing off ways to changes Legion's addons. However do note that these addons are based of MY CHANGES. So an addon that might not make sense currently, WOULD make sense with my changes. Please give any feedback or questions as I will gladly answer them :D

    Common Addons:

    Smiley Face Pin: Gives Blindness for 120 seconds and is done on Intial FF hit.

    Scratched Ruler: No change

    Mischief List: Increases Duration by 1 second

    Friendship Bracelet: Increase Killer Instinct by 4m, and increase FF movement speed by 3%

    Uncommon Addons:

    Never-Sleep Pills: Increase Killer Instinct by 8m, and Increase FF movement speed by 4%

    Mural Sketch: Increase FF duration by 1.75 seconds

    Julie's Mixtape: Increase vaulting speeds during FF by 10%

    Etched Ruler: FF refills 4 seconds faster

    Defaced Smiley Pin: Gives Mangled for 120 seconds and is done on intial FF hit

    Rare Addons:

    The Legion Pin: Gives Broken status effect for 120 seconds and is done on intial FF hit

    Susie's Mixtape: Increases Killer Instinct by 16m and increases FF movement speed by 5%

    Stolen Sketchbook: Increases FF Duration by 2.5 seconds

    Nasty Blade: Considerably reduce Mending Skill Check Zones sizes, and increase failure penalty to 50% of Deep Wounds timer

    Joey's Mixtape: Increases vaulting speed during FF by 20%

    Very Rare Addons:

    Stab Wounds Study: Hitting a Deep Wounded survivor with FF reduces the time to 2.5 seconds instantly

    Frank's Mixtape: Pallets dropped on the Legion during FF are instantly broken. Stun time from FF and pallets dropped on the Legion during FF increased to 3.5 seconds

    Filthy Blade: Tremendously reduce Mending Skill Check zones sizes, and failing a skill check will down the survivor regardless of how much is left on their timer

    Cold Dirt: The cooldown time is reduced by .75 seconds instead of .5 seconds for the first 2 survivors inflicted with Deep Wounds

    Ultra Rare Addons:

    Iridescent Button: The terror radius and Killer Instinct cover the entire map, pallets vaulted are broken, and FF movement speed is increased by 10%. FF duration is reduced by 2 seconds

    Fuming Mixtape: Windows vaulted during FF are blocked for its duration and 10 seconds after it. Scratch Mark's and blood are now visible, however Killer Instinct cannot be triggered. Hitting a survivor will injure them or down them if they are already injured. Missing an attack will end the power. Hitting a survivor will end the power. FF duration increased by 2 seconds, charge time is increased by 15 seconds.

    Thanks for the read, and sorry for the mouthful X)

    Good ideas! You know what? I will put this on the top!

  • I will say, I do miss swinging for fun during Feral Frenzy. That miss ending your power thing is so unfun and painful when Auto aim messes you up.

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    I will say, I do miss swinging for fun during Feral Frenzy. That miss ending your power thing is so unfun and painful when Auto aim messes you up.

    Just like an invisible pallet drops on your head when you missed.

  • @DeathEscape said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/775820#Comment_775820

    Just like an invisible pallet drops on your head when you missed.

    Nope, it's worse and better than that. Worse cause it's longer, better cause you can still KINDA move and see.

    Alot of Legion's run Enduring and bait people into dropping pallets on them cause the stun is shorter. That should say how bad that stun is when you miss or your power ends.

  • I noticed one idea keep changing so I removed it till it's done being edited

  • a sad list made by @NullSp3c Kinda sums up why i'm trying so hard to tell people that Legion needs ALOT of help

    I've made a cool list about legion's power.

    These are the downsides:

    • Doesn't work to down survivors.
    • To chase.
    • To get information far away.
    • Against spreaded survivors.
    • Has a huge penalty.
    • Is slow so some loops can be loopable when using feral frenzy.
    • A stun takes you out.
    • A missed hit takes you out.
    • Hitting someone twice makes nothing and drops the power.
    • Doesn't do anything against injured or exposed survivors.
    • Doesn't help you patrol generators because you go further by just walking.
    • Has a huge punishment in the end.
    • You can't see blood pools.
    • You can't see scratch marks.
    • Makes your screen blurred so you easily miss a survivor when fatiguing.
    • Partially deafens you.
    • Has a 24 second cooldown.
    • Your vision is turned down a little making it harder to see survivors.
    • And there are white lines in the screen that partially limit your vision, to seem that you go fast (and in reality you are not going).
    • Feels bad to use due to their uselessness and sluggishness.
    • You won't use it in the end game because you can't down people, it will be just used in very specific situations.
    • Isn't flexible, needs a full power bar to be activated.
    • When you miss a hit you lose all the pressure that you had.
    • Hitting someone while out of feral frenzy takes 50% of the bar.
    • Killer instinct doesn't let you know the distance.
    • No orange auras on killer instinct for no reason.
    • Mending can be completely ignored by survivors.
    • Mending is annoying to play against

    These are the upsides:

    • Hit multiple survivors when they are VERY close to each other and you don't miss or are stunned or hit someone twice.
    • You see survivors that are around you.
    • Make them mend so they waste15 seconds of their time.
    • You can have a first hit, but it is not easy.

    As you can see it is worth to use their power 100% *BEING VERY VERY SARCASTIC

    But don't be afraid, you have 5% more movement speed now while walking normally, seems a good trade.


    let's not forget, any 115% killer with 3 stacks of PWYF can go 5% faster than Legion in FF

  • @UlvenDagoth said:

    a sad list made by @NullSp3c Kinda sums up why i'm trying so hard to tell people that Legion needs ALOT of help

    I've made a cool list about legion's power.

    These are the downsides:

    • Doesn't work to down survivors.
    • To chase.
    • To get information far away.
    • Against spreaded survivors.
    • Has a huge penalty.
    • Is slow so some loops can be loopable when using feral frenzy.
    • A stun takes you out.
    • A missed hit takes you out.
    • Hitting someone twice makes nothing and drops the power.
    • Doesn't do anything against injured or exposed survivors.
    • Doesn't help you patrol generators because you go further by just walking.
    • Has a huge punishment in the end.
    • You can't see blood pools.
    • You can't see scratch marks.
    • Makes your screen blurred so you easily miss a survivor when fatiguing.
    • Partially deafens you.
    • Has a 24 second cooldown.
    • Your vision is turned down a little making it harder to see survivors.
    • And there are white lines in the screen that partially limit your vision, to seem that you go fast (and in reality you are not going).
    • Feels bad to use due to their uselessness and sluggishness.
    • You won't use it in the end game because you can't down people, it will be just used in very specific situations.
    • Isn't flexible, needs a full power bar to be activated.
    • When you miss a hit you lose all the pressure that you had.
    • Hitting someone while out of feral frenzy takes 50% of the bar.
    • Killer instinct doesn't let you know the distance.
    • No orange auras on killer instinct for no reason.
    • Mending can be completely ignored by survivors.
    • Mending is annoying to play against

    These are the upsides:

    • Hit multiple survivors when they are VERY close to each other and you don't miss or are stunned or hit someone twice.
    • You see survivors that are around you.
    • Make them mend so they waste15 seconds of their time.
    • You can have a first hit, but it is not easy.

    As you can see it is worth to use their power 100% *BEING VERY VERY SARCASTIC

    But don't be afraid, you have 5% more movement speed now while walking normally, seems a good trade.

    let's not forget, any 115% killer with 3 stacks of PWYF can go 5% faster than Legion in FF

    This post right here is the main reason I say Legion doesn't have a power. If the cons are more in number than the pros. Is it really a power or a handicap?

  • @KillermainBTWm8 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/778815#Comment_778815

    This post right here is the main reason I say Legion doesn't have a power. If the cons are more in number than the pros. Is it really a power or a handicap?

    And that is EXACTLY why we need to help Legion (and the lower tier Killers) to be good! Can you believe someone on here suggested nerfing all Killers to Legion Level? Holy crap I hope they were joking.

    And yes, currently Legion's power is more of a handicap. That's why this thread is here to try to gather all of the good ideas for them into one place. NO KILLER should make you feel like that one guy in an anime, pulling off the weighted clothing and saying "I'm sorry Master, I must go all out this one time." when you pick someone else. I love Legion, I have a TON of fun as Legion... but they are in such a bad place atm.

  • and now for an idea from @NuclearBurrito !

    Though I would again like to point out that the legion fix specifically is solely geared towards fixing his balance issues and thus is not the best overall fix.

    Now for the fix

    These changes are all meant to go together:

    • M1 attacks no longer drain Frenzy at all
    • Killers can see the deep wounds bar draining
    • Deep wounds prevents preforming channeled actions besides mending and unhooking
    • Frenzy moves at 5.4 M/S
    • Frenzy window vault speed is now 0.9 seconds and pallet vault speed is now 1.1 seconds.
    • Fatigue time is reduced by 0.5 seconds per Survivor hit in a single Frenzy (without DW).
    • Frenzy base fatigue time reduced to 3 seconds (thus the minimum fatigue is 1 second if you hit all 4)
    • Frenzy cooldown is reduced to 15 seconds

    M1 attack draining his power never made sense. Still doesn't

    Killer seeing DW means Legion is now better at tracking and it punishes not mending.

    Preventing channeled actions further punishes not mending.

    Increase Frenzy speed and vault speed means he's more likely to get chain hits. DW still is extremely unlikely to down and such this isn't problematic.

    Fatigue time being reduced by chain hits (default is still 4) means he has an actual method of downing Survivors. Hit them all and then M1 the last one with a very small to nonexistent fatigue for a relatively easy down.

    Addon changes:

    • Pins - The change about working on first hit happens
    • Friendship bracelet/Never sleep pills/Susie's Mixtape - Increase terror radius during Feral Frenzy by 4/6/8 meters (gives them more perk synergy)
    • Franks Mixtape - Hitting a Survivor with Deep Wounds inflicts Oblivious for 15 seconds (After more thought we figured out this would end up bringing back the Exploit. Needs a change- Ulven)
    • Fuming Mixtape - Also increases Frenzy Duration by 3 seconds
    • Julies Mixtape - Slightly increase Frenzy movement speed (+0.1 M/S)
    • Joes Mixtape/Cold dirt - Considerably/Tremendously the time required to refill the power gauge

    Pins are being changed anyways. No reason not to support this. (yes please. Put it on the first hit at least)

    KI addons now synergise better with perks related to this stuff

    @NullSp3c said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/780578#Comment_780578

    Honestly, this is the only 4.6m/s legion change that i like, but i would add some things

    Feral frenzy should be available to cast at 50% of the bar.This way, the power becomes more flexible.

    Also, why do you want franks mixtape and stab wounds study if you cant down someone by deep wounds?

    Even though i like this idea, feral frenzy should be lethal by itself imo. There is no better feeling in this game than rushing a survivor down with feral frenzy.

    Edit: I've read franks mixtape wrong and now that i get it it doesnt seem like a healthy add on at all. I think it needs change, but not that change that survivors are on a timer to go down and they cant do anything about it (old legion again with this add on).

    Franks now causes DW to drain over time for a bit and gives it more utility, while also making sure it doesn't stack with itself due to the new Cold Dirt AND means it can effectively do more "damage" without being abusable (shortest time to down possible is 30 seconds which is longer than what you want)The fatigue addons needed to be change due to the new fatigue mechanic only working at specific values. Having addons effect them would make it much harder to balance, thus making them effect other things such as cooldowns and speed solves the issue.

  • Just everyone posting ideas, I want to take a moment to thank ALL of you for the help in getting Legion some love and looked at.

    Legion is a unique Killer and I really want to keep that Uniqueness. I love the playstyle of Legion and I know yall do too. Thank you so much for all of your ideas and keeping this place so civil and active. Maybe we can get the Lower Tier Killers out of there boring, easily looped state and put some tension back on the Survivors to think up new and unique plans to handle the Killers now. No more "Oh just loop them..." but instead "Oh it's THAT Killer! What did they do again? Okay, we need a plan!"

    Doesn't that sound so much more fun? That uniqueness back into the Killers? Cause if all they need to do is loop, why even bother having this many Killers? We need to put the uniqueness back into the Killers and this thread is REALLY helping getting Legion there Uniqueness UPGRADED!!!


    Thank you all so much and have Fun in the Fog!

  • https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/76173/everyone-saying-legion-has-a-bad-power-is-wrong


    This makes me sad, but it's not wrong. Legion needs ALOT of help. Thank yall for helping me try and get them that help. Just remember, we are trying to keep the SOUL of Legion the same. We want the rushdown, blitz style we have now, but better or with something to make it viable. NEVER CHANGE THE PLAY STYLE that Legion players love. It would tear me up inside that my favorite Killer was utterly changed in such a way.

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