The Legion Rework: This feedback is retired
This feedback is retired
This was my step by step thoughts on what I felt about the Legion Rework. I am a bit underwhelmed especially when seeing the abysmal changes made to the Legion.
People of the Fog,
Since the release of Chapter 11: The Darkness Among Us, we have received a lot of feedback, both positive and negative, regarding The Legion. With this update, we aim to bridge the gap in the extreme playstyle of this Killer and remove some of the ongoing frustrations when playing as The Legion as well as against The Legion.
The following changes allow for direct Survivor counter-play, reduce the potential for exploiting certain game mechanics, and bring The Legion’s default attributes in-line with other Killers, all while retaining the core vision of this Killer.
THE LEGION
- The Legion’s base movement speed is increased to 4.6m/s.
This is pretty good, I never understood how a group of rebellious teens moved so slowly. Teens are meant to be up and about, moving faster than adults should. 4.4 did not make sense.
- The Legion’s Terror Radius is increased to 32m.
It's protocol, I have no words for this but I don't think it's bad.
- Most of The Legion’s add-ons are rebalanced or reworked to account for the changes to Feral Frenzy and the Deep Wound status effect.
I hope the pin add ons are actually good.
- The Iridescent button addon no longer requires The Legion to apply Deep Wound for the effects to be active.
This is simply delicious. Thank you.
FERAL FRENZY UPDATE
- The recharge time of Feral Frenzy is increased and now requires a full power gauge to use it. Once it has been activated, the Legion must wait until the power gauge is full to be able to trigger the power again.
In line with a killer like the spirit. While I will miss activation at any time, for balance reasons I will accept this change.
- The duration of Feral Frenzy is increased. The Legion spends longer in frenzy.
Oh thank goodness, hopefully people will play this as intended now.
- The movement speed of Feral Frenzy is significantly reduced. The Legion moves faster than base speed while in frenzy, but not as fast as they did before.
Wasn't it like 120 movement? Well, as long as I could still use it to great advantage. I don't mind sooooo much.
- The Legion can no longer see blood pools (in addition to not seeing scratch marks) while in Feral Frenzy.
I... Don't know how to feel about this. It REALLY doesn't make sense that you can't see blood during a frenzy. That what made the Legion tolerable back then. But for balance reasons, I shall accept these terms.
- Feral Frenzy is immediately and automatically cancelled whenever The Legion misses an attack while in frenzy.
Due to a comment from @Peanits, I no longer really find this problematic. While I still do not agree with this completely, it's not as bad as I had first thought.
Don't ever say that I can't change my opinion.
DEEP WOUND UPDATE
- The Deep Wound timer pauses for survivors within The Killer's Terror Radius–regardless of whether they are in a chase or not.
I... Don't know how to feel about this. Especially with the fear it will affect Borrowed Time's Deep Wound timer. If it does, then the Entity has truly left us. Borrowed Time, in my opinion, was wrongly buffed and is the only reason why I would ever dislike the Legion.
- The Deep Wound timer pauses while Mending.
(Changed from a John Tron meme.)
- the Killer does not see the Deep Wound timer progress–only the Deep Wound bar to know that Deep Wound has been applied.
This is pretty bad. But for balance I will accept it.
- The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
Annnnnd there you go. How I feel about all this. I could do a whole thing where I suggest what I think would fix the issues I see but I know it won't happen. And Freddy needs attention now.
Good day y'all.
Edit: Added in further review.
Well, I waited, I watched, and now I can give feedback (because apparently you have to wait to be served a sandwich made of excrements to be able to know it's gonna be terrible [I, again, am not saying the new Legion is bad! But I find it dumb that people don't want to hear feedback before a product is out. Especially if they give no reason for me to believe they are knowledgeable on Legion]) For what it's worth I will always have a special place for Legion in the spot where my heart should be.
Unfortunately all of my points in the initial post has not really changed. The only GOOD thing is... Uh... The longer duration?
There are a lot of things I can say at the top of my head, but I won't waste any time. I'll give my feedback on what I've seen thus far.
LEGION COOLDOWN ADDONS:
I have no idea why you nerfed them like that, especially when you gave the Legion a cooldown of four seconds. You say you play your own games, but I don't have Dead by Daylight on my (dying) computer and it HURTS seeing that long of a stun. Either revert the cooldown nerfs or change Legion's base cooldown back to 3 seconds because I feel physically ill seeing the stun.
LEGION SPEED ADDONS:
You changed it so that all the add ons that once gave faster Feral Speed now increase the range of the Killer Instinct reading range. The problem is that without the SPEED to make use of it, the effects are in fact useless. I'd suggest buff base Legion Feral Frenzy speed back up slightly/moderately, or allow the speed add ons to retain their original effects.
LEGION FERAL MISSED COOLDOWN:
I'll believe losing ALL the power gauge when missing is a bug that will be fixed, but why have it in the first place? The Legion are a group of delinquents, and I, as a young man, can lunge forward with a knife more times now then the Legion can. And that is embarrassing for a number of reasons.
LEGION POWER GAUGE:
One thing that never made sense to me, especially with this update, is why affect the gauge at all? We were all kids once, and some of us had just left the teenage life. So why is it that getting hit with pallets/missing attacks/hitting a person twice cost so much? Especially now that Feral Frenzy doesn't really do much?
I suggest every missed swing reduces the power gauge by 25%, allowing counterplay for survivors and a chance for Legions. Keep the damned 20 second recharge if you absolutely must, but either allow for Legion to use their power when they have AT LEAST 50% charge or reverse the effects of hitting a survivor, so that instead of LOSING gauge, you GAIN it. One or the other, I would never ask for both.
PIN ADD ONS:
Which brings us to the pin add ons, I like that you made them useful, somewhat. The problem is, you have to willing to take a FOUR second stun just to give a debuff to someone, meaning you can't really spread the pain that well.
I would suggest either giving the effects ON HIT, or no longer taking you out of Frenzy when you do hit someone twice.
Optional- Hitting someone twice or more times should instead give you increasingly limited returns on your power gauge instead of taking you out of it, since there is legitimately no reason to actually hit someone twice without a pin add on, and is detrimental even with one.
LEGION VAULT SPEEDS:
I'm a bit effy about this, but I'm aware that it feels slower then it actually is, so I will withhold from making statements for now.
There you go. My thoughts and feelings (and suggestions) about how I feel about it. For those of you who do not want to read all the way to the 7th page.
Comments
So, one of the only killers who could deal with loopers, can now no longer deal with loopers? Or have I missed an important part of the new mechanic?
Ding Ding Ding
Wraith "What's your Power?"
Legion "Feral Frenzy"
Wraith "Uhhh... I like the sound of it. What does it do?"
Legion "It lets me hit people. Unless I miss. I'll get kicked out of it and will be put in a cooldown. Then I have to wait a very long time until I can use it again."
Wraith "GET THE FU** OUT!!! NOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!"
RIP Legioneeeeeers :D
This.
I already haven't touched the game in months and fell to 20/20. At this point I doubt I'll be back. Still haven't bought ash, probably won't any time soon.
They do Freddy dirty like this and I'll just hit delete on my 60 ish dollar investment, and go play games that don't get ruined to appease the vocal minority.
Remember behavior, no killers, no game.
What is the difference between playing the Wraith and Legion at this point?
Would be too strong if Legion, for every survivor he hits, the timer get reduced by 25%, so if he hits all 4 survivors single frenzy, the 4th survivor gets instant downed? The deep wound timer doesn't feel like it will impact in his gameplay after the change.
@GodDamn_Angela
Wraith has stealth, speed boost out of stealth, addons that let him see through walls and gen progression.
Legion has survivor tracking built in, can make people waste time mending, can vault pallets, has addons to make bleedout and TR absurdly powerful.
Lots. There are lots of differences between the two.
You don't say. However the person I was responding to was talking about M1 and base move speed.
"LEARN TO M1 THESE CHANGES ARE HEAVEN SENT AAAAAAAA 115 LEGION IM FINNA CREAM"
In case you missed it.
basically the new mechanic is, you cant down survivors with your power anymore. So legion is just a regular m1 killer with worst power in the game
@GodDamn_Angela
By that logic, how is any killer different than any other killer other than move speed? If were talking explicitly about M1.....
Their powers.
@ricardo You mean you cant cheese them with your power. You can hit them, and follow up FASTER than previously. Given you save time not waiting for frenzy to come back multiple times, it's not that drastic of a time difference in downing someone.
@Supernaut No, they can still deal with loopers, just like every other killer already could. You just cant spam the ability and down someone after hopping the pallet.
I feel like being looped is a killer gameplay problem and not killer related. Break pallet immediately. No more loops.
I think as long as the stun following hitting someone with frenzy is either removed or adjusted, this update will be fine.
As a survivor main who hates legion, some of this is good but you have gone a bit to far. Fatal frenzy should be spammed and shouldn't cancel after a missed hit.
Or rename it to anything without the word "frenzy" in it.
You mean when you throw it on the ptb for a singular round of testing before you do minor tweaks and throw it onto live servers without further testing?
I kinda want a refund for this killer now. This sounds, on paper, horrible. And to be honest, the way you handle testing doesn't make me feel confident about the future of a killer i genuinely enjoyed playing, even though they weren't that strong. This isn't a rework, this is a straight nerf, to a killer that wasn't that good.
This is what happened to Freddy.
A killer wasn't strong, but lower skilled players found them oppressive and people in general, found them unfun to play against. So instead of brainstorming solutions, you nerf them to near uselessness, so people stop playing them.
Legion players should be punished for wiffing. -tru3ta1ent
@Jimmy_Voorhees yeah, they are in a stabbing frenzy. You don't stop when you miss! It's not as dramatic as most are making out but it is a bit of a butchering
Rework? This turned Feral Frenzy totally useless.
I'm seeing very little reason to use deep wounds over basic attacks. At least on paper it sounds like there is almost no danger to it as long as killer remains in the vicinity and none at all if they abandon the hunt completely in favor of someone else. Can you still down someone with frenzy or is it just a gimmick for a quick hit on healthy survivors?
On paper it looks like legion will be the new freddy. Worst killer in the game by a mile. I'll keep the killer just give me my 10 bucks back for the cosmetic I bought for them.
There is 1 additional change they could make that would redeem this iteration of the legion:
They have to mend eventually since otherwise they die. But this way DW mostly acts more as a buffer to prevent Frenzy being used to instadown healthy survivors while also giving him downing potential in general
I'm usually pretty optimistic about changes made to DBD. More often than not, they move the needle in the right direction. But even I have to admit that I hate everything about the proposed changes. EVERYTHING. Even the buffs. Normal move speed does not even come close to offsetting the negative aspects. I liked having a slower move speed as long as the power made it worth it. It made the run speed feel even faster than it actually was.
They just sound like such a bland killer now. Might as well not even have a power. Deep Wounds is absolutely meaningless. You literally can't even use your power to down survivors. The survivor has to run outside your terror radius and refuse to mend to go down. The worst part about the whole thing is the 1 miss and stun aspect. That is just absolutely insane. Losing 1/4 or 1/3 of the power meter for a miss would be fair.
If they absolutely have to go forward with this one hit = stun and power goes on cooldown nonsense then they should at least make it worth it to the killer. The killer should be able to continually hit the survivor w/o losing frenzy and each hit should reduce the deep wound meter by 1/3. Think about it, the killer would have to hit the same survivor 4 consecutive times without missing to down the survivor. If the survivor can't get the killer to miss one out of 4 attacks then they deserve to go down. Each time the killer successfully lands an attack, it should completely recharge the ability even if it is against the same survivor.
All I know for sure is that they better make some changes to this BS before it goes live.
That's an interesting idea.
I'm thoroughly glad for the changes.
That's truth. Number of survivor main is many four times than killers intuitively. Dev hear that 'Nerf that killer!!' they said.
Does anybody know when this model chapter patch will be?
Frivolous Flailing.
Rename successful
When are you going to stop pandering to streamers who only play survivor? You've removed legions knife and gave him a feather duster to hit survivors with. It's embarassing.
Absolutely delighted with these changes. DELIGHTED.
Join the killer strike. Streamers can stream the empty lobby. 😂👍
@Jimmy_Voorhees I'm already on it for the Spirit bug (although that's just a bug I'm still waiting for it to be fixed)
I'm willing to also wait for this to be fixed too.
Any killer nerfs that get announced always get ignored and fast tracked through PTB and get implemented into live, seems like you've only just started playing.
@Ultima Killer buffs/Survivor nerfs however?
Get into PTB, never leave it
Survivor Buffs don't even need the PTB sometimes
The whole 'all of your power depleting after 1 missed swing' is too much. Literally no other killer gets punished this hard for missing. I personally think Nurse, Plauge and Spirit are good examples of how ######### Legion really is.
Nurse gets fatigue yes, but after that she can just teleport again, it's basically a pallet stun and then she's up and about again.
Plauge is slow while charging, and canceling purge as well, but you can still start her power right after canceling or using purge. It's kind of similar to Nurse with not really having a cooldown.
Spirit needs to wait until her power is fully recharged before using it, but she doesn't get stunned while coming out of phasewalking or when canceling. Her power gauge also gets recharged pretty quick, and she moves crazy fast (dunno if the movement speed on Legion will help them with FF, so take the crazy fast part with a grain of salt.)
Legion will get stunned (or whatever you want to call it) by either canceling or depleting FF, and then you have to wait for It to recharge fully. While you wait, you cannot do anything except being an M1 killer, everything that made Legion interesting gets deleted out of existance for a couple of seconds, and then you're (probably) good to go again.
The problem with this is that Legion gets punished way too much time wise for using their power, because one wrong step and you have lost a lot of valuable seconds to a chase or whatever else you're doing. It feels like you are better off just using FF to travel across the map (I started of by playing Legion like this and it is not as fun as to use FF to apply deepwound to multiple survivors imo), it takes away everything cool and unique Legion had to offer with FF.
Everything else regarding this update is pretty neat though, but this is the thing that bothers me the most.
Too bad I can't refund this bullshit, especially since I spent my own money on their cosmetics and the chapter. The Legion was already weak and bashed enough, now they're making them unfun to play as because survivors kept b*tching about the killer being too "OP" despite him being easy to dodge his attacks.
As an avid legion player
These changes suck...and that's not biased.
Wraith's power actually helps him, instead of being a hindrance
sipping my drink reading the comments of survivor mains who could care less verses people who play both sides and can equally say these changes are not IT. pls no
@Ultima Good luck with that. Or haven't you noticed that the so-called Fog Whispers are pretty much the beginning, middle, and end of Dead by Daylight marketing nowadays. And a majority are survivor mains, so of course they need to be kept happy.
It's as bad as it was in Overwatch, and the OWL Pros having way too much say in that game's balance. I swear, between that and the inability to nerf or buff without using a sledgehammer, it's like Activision-Blizzard purchased Behavior or something. That, or maybe they hired a bunch of former Blizzard Devs. Because it's the exact same crap, different game.
All i read on their forum post just translates to "Make sure to report people playing the character we designed and already put through the PTB and has been on live". Why are we getting punished for bad design? Survivors will ######### about any crack they can slip through to say "it wasn't fair" if they lose a match
@SasukeKun Ah, you're referring to the huge red box of text. Don't get me started on that. Any other game studio would have disabled the add-ons until a fix could be implemented. But not Behavior. The exploit was allowed to stay on live, and now they want the players to police it.
No thanks. I refuse to file a report on the matter. They should have handled it correctly. I'm not doing their job for them for free.
Why would the developers drop all this info about legion changes, but they dont tell us what exactly their new add ons are?
That's a huge part of any killer, most killers these days their add ons either make or break them. Most of the legion changes suck, but at least seeing the addons could make everyone's outlook a little different.
I feel like his power doesn't have any meaning now. Like it doesn't really do much.
He's basically a M1 killer with the capability to injure multiple people, but isn't able to close the down often enough.
It might be fine once people are playing it. The terror radius is what kills me. Maybe they'll rework the add ons to reduce terror radius? That would be interesting.
His terror radius needs to be 24m badly if not. Frank's Mix Tape needs to reduce the terror radius by 8 meters. That would be great.
As Players, we can contribute to balancing in some aspects but i'm not even gonna play Legion even tho they are one of my favs, i don't need an angry SWF group reporting me cuz they lost
I like playing legion the way he is now to have a re work will Be nice but they aren’t fixing with some of this stuff sounds like a nerf to be honest idk we’ll see what happens at the QA
Having played both killer and survivor a decent bite,
I agree with OP on all counts, except a few notes:
I do think that missed attacks resulting in depletion of power may be a bit extreme, maybe a 25% reduction is what I would've done had it been me.
DW timer stopping in TR is wonderful, about time! It never made sense when they nerfed BT to become a DW timer.
Removing Blood in Frenzy makes sense, reduces tunneling and breaking chase exploits.
DW timer pausing while mending is a good thing, it prevents the killer from just walking up to survivors who literally just have to stand there or collapse. It provides some counterplay.
DW timer doesn't reduce with subsequent attacks, this is a good change, to discourage tunnelling and provides survivors to have some counterplay vs legion. The increased base movement speed to legion is to help the killer due to this change while chasing.
Overall Great changes! Could've probably gone with just a 25% loss per missed attacks. Hopefully BT no longer counts as DW. Perhaps now I won't have DCs when we go against legion.
Also remember this is a proposed rework they will take what’s we say into consideration plus feedback from PTB
I don't play legion very often but maybe if you're going to penalize that harshly for a missed swing, make their lockon better?