The Legion Rework: This feedback is retired
This feedback is retired
This was my step by step thoughts on what I felt about the Legion Rework. I am a bit underwhelmed especially when seeing the abysmal changes made to the Legion.
People of the Fog,
Since the release of Chapter 11: The Darkness Among Us, we have received a lot of feedback, both positive and negative, regarding The Legion. With this update, we aim to bridge the gap in the extreme playstyle of this Killer and remove some of the ongoing frustrations when playing as The Legion as well as against The Legion.
The following changes allow for direct Survivor counter-play, reduce the potential for exploiting certain game mechanics, and bring The Legion’s default attributes in-line with other Killers, all while retaining the core vision of this Killer.
THE LEGION
- The Legion’s base movement speed is increased to 4.6m/s.
This is pretty good, I never understood how a group of rebellious teens moved so slowly. Teens are meant to be up and about, moving faster than adults should. 4.4 did not make sense.
- The Legion’s Terror Radius is increased to 32m.
It's protocol, I have no words for this but I don't think it's bad.
- Most of The Legion’s add-ons are rebalanced or reworked to account for the changes to Feral Frenzy and the Deep Wound status effect.
I hope the pin add ons are actually good.
- The Iridescent button addon no longer requires The Legion to apply Deep Wound for the effects to be active.
This is simply delicious. Thank you.
FERAL FRENZY UPDATE
- The recharge time of Feral Frenzy is increased and now requires a full power gauge to use it. Once it has been activated, the Legion must wait until the power gauge is full to be able to trigger the power again.
In line with a killer like the spirit. While I will miss activation at any time, for balance reasons I will accept this change.
- The duration of Feral Frenzy is increased. The Legion spends longer in frenzy.
Oh thank goodness, hopefully people will play this as intended now.
- The movement speed of Feral Frenzy is significantly reduced. The Legion moves faster than base speed while in frenzy, but not as fast as they did before.
Wasn't it like 120 movement? Well, as long as I could still use it to great advantage. I don't mind sooooo much.
- The Legion can no longer see blood pools (in addition to not seeing scratch marks) while in Feral Frenzy.
I... Don't know how to feel about this. It REALLY doesn't make sense that you can't see blood during a frenzy. That what made the Legion tolerable back then. But for balance reasons, I shall accept these terms.
- Feral Frenzy is immediately and automatically cancelled whenever The Legion misses an attack while in frenzy.
Due to a comment from @Peanits, I no longer really find this problematic. While I still do not agree with this completely, it's not as bad as I had first thought.
Don't ever say that I can't change my opinion.
DEEP WOUND UPDATE
- The Deep Wound timer pauses for survivors within The Killer's Terror Radius–regardless of whether they are in a chase or not.
I... Don't know how to feel about this. Especially with the fear it will affect Borrowed Time's Deep Wound timer. If it does, then the Entity has truly left us. Borrowed Time, in my opinion, was wrongly buffed and is the only reason why I would ever dislike the Legion.
- The Deep Wound timer pauses while Mending.
(Changed from a John Tron meme.)
- the Killer does not see the Deep Wound timer progress–only the Deep Wound bar to know that Deep Wound has been applied.
This is pretty bad. But for balance I will accept it.
- The Deep Wound timer progress is no longer reduced by regular Feral Frenzy attacks.
Annnnnd there you go. How I feel about all this. I could do a whole thing where I suggest what I think would fix the issues I see but I know it won't happen. And Freddy needs attention now.
Good day y'all.
Edit: Added in further review.
Well, I waited, I watched, and now I can give feedback (because apparently you have to wait to be served a sandwich made of excrements to be able to know it's gonna be terrible [I, again, am not saying the new Legion is bad! But I find it dumb that people don't want to hear feedback before a product is out. Especially if they give no reason for me to believe they are knowledgeable on Legion]) For what it's worth I will always have a special place for Legion in the spot where my heart should be.
Unfortunately all of my points in the initial post has not really changed. The only GOOD thing is... Uh... The longer duration?
There are a lot of things I can say at the top of my head, but I won't waste any time. I'll give my feedback on what I've seen thus far.
LEGION COOLDOWN ADDONS:
I have no idea why you nerfed them like that, especially when you gave the Legion a cooldown of four seconds. You say you play your own games, but I don't have Dead by Daylight on my (dying) computer and it HURTS seeing that long of a stun. Either revert the cooldown nerfs or change Legion's base cooldown back to 3 seconds because I feel physically ill seeing the stun.
LEGION SPEED ADDONS:
You changed it so that all the add ons that once gave faster Feral Speed now increase the range of the Killer Instinct reading range. The problem is that without the SPEED to make use of it, the effects are in fact useless. I'd suggest buff base Legion Feral Frenzy speed back up slightly/moderately, or allow the speed add ons to retain their original effects.
LEGION FERAL MISSED COOLDOWN:
I'll believe losing ALL the power gauge when missing is a bug that will be fixed, but why have it in the first place? The Legion are a group of delinquents, and I, as a young man, can lunge forward with a knife more times now then the Legion can. And that is embarrassing for a number of reasons.
LEGION POWER GAUGE:
One thing that never made sense to me, especially with this update, is why affect the gauge at all? We were all kids once, and some of us had just left the teenage life. So why is it that getting hit with pallets/missing attacks/hitting a person twice cost so much? Especially now that Feral Frenzy doesn't really do much?
I suggest every missed swing reduces the power gauge by 25%, allowing counterplay for survivors and a chance for Legions. Keep the damned 20 second recharge if you absolutely must, but either allow for Legion to use their power when they have AT LEAST 50% charge or reverse the effects of hitting a survivor, so that instead of LOSING gauge, you GAIN it. One or the other, I would never ask for both.
PIN ADD ONS:
Which brings us to the pin add ons, I like that you made them useful, somewhat. The problem is, you have to willing to take a FOUR second stun just to give a debuff to someone, meaning you can't really spread the pain that well.
I would suggest either giving the effects ON HIT, or no longer taking you out of Frenzy when you do hit someone twice.
Optional- Hitting someone twice or more times should instead give you increasingly limited returns on your power gauge instead of taking you out of it, since there is legitimately no reason to actually hit someone twice without a pin add on, and is detrimental even with one.
LEGION VAULT SPEEDS:
I'm a bit effy about this, but I'm aware that it feels slower then it actually is, so I will withhold from making statements for now.
There you go. My thoughts and feelings (and suggestions) about how I feel about it. For those of you who do not want to read all the way to the 7th page.
Comments
The power depletion on a missed Frenzy attack is the only issue I have, and it's enough that if I could get a refund on this DLC, I would.
First of all, even when all my survivors have green ping in a lobby, I still get survivors lagging, teleporting, and flickering in a match. Issues that make an attack miss. So, thanks to the shoddy tech behind DbD, playing Legion can be impossible.
There have been posts and posts over time about the lag problem, so it isn't as if the team is unaware. And yet, this was the route they chose to go with the power? It destroys any confidence I had left in them.
If that change goes live as-is, Ash will be the final DLC I'd have purchased from Behavior, because at that point their development decisions are no longer something I trust enough to spend additional money on their product.
I feel like the missed attacks during feral frenzy should instead do more percent depletion rather than a whole drain of the power. This looks as if 360s could really be a problem for Legion
These changes sound great to me but I am slightly worried that it will be easier for legion to hit once with feral frenzy and then let power deplete and hit with regular M1 because of his movement speed buff.
Instead of jumping to the conclusions of those being alternate accounts like @McHarty did, I'd say it's people deciding to voice their opinion for the first time on the forum after reading about the changes.
@not_Queen @Peanits
Can you confirm whether or not the cooldown reduction add-ons will be reworked?
What counters did they have? Because i don't remember any counters to Legion, their was no counterplay that i have seen anyone do, the only thing i can think of was the window tech, which didn't take long for you and your gang to figure out how to counter that as well.
Unless you can explain to me what kind counters they have. Please let me know @Shad03
I avoided these forums because they are a cesspool of toxic trash gamers. You can find me on Twitter,twitch,mixer, Xbox and steam on the same ID. So no I'm not an alt account. I just have better things to do than bicker on a toxic forum.
Sadly this redesign was the straw that broke the killers back. I've said the same thing to dbd devs on Twitter and Facebook. I'm here as I was told this was ideal to reach behavior.
Thanks 😁
So when I do it, it's jumping to conclusions.
When everyone else does it, it's an expected outcome.
Never change Doc.
how boring and a very sad way to reduce a killer to trash when there's people who actually enjoy them like me.
Here the sostitute for freddy, rip legion, time to use my 40mori
This hits the nail right on the head imo
I already thought legion was boring so i didn't bother, this is just insane.
Legion like this is a m1 killer with a power that can be used as bad map travers. Thats it. Very loopable.
The rare occasion that you hit multiple close survivors (after they know its legion players with more then 80 iq wont group up anymore) and then chase 1 of them dosent make up for that.
What were their counters exactly? I personally like this change, they did get nerfed, but they got buffed in other areas.
@DocOctober You mean on the forum where we heard about the changes IN THE FIRST PLACE? Right. Next absurd retort?
Community: reewurk Leegun
Devs: *reewurk Leegun*
Rework: *isn't even out yet, changes listed on the forums, no one even got to play them yet*
Community: this reewurk is trash, im quitting dee bee dee and pls gib me a refund.
Can this please stop? Over and over again people have complained about something being weak, and weeks later decided that it was the best thing to happen. *cough* Spirit *cough*
Just wait for the changes to hit PTB and play it for yourself. Actually, now that I think about it, it won't change anything, people are still going to ######### about it until it's not their way.
Common sense isn't allowed on this forum, we gotta rage about a badly designed killer getting changed.
Deep wounds,in this form, is now counter productive.
Why bother suffering the weird cool down jerk animation when you can be nearly as fast just m1-ing the entire match. It's sad.
Exactly. Remember when Freddy was released and the community was already crying in the first week.
Were you really around back when Spirit was released? Doesnt seem like you were. Spirit WAS trashy. THEN she got buffed and was made top tier and arguably the most loved Killer in the entire game.
I agree to certain extents it just feels like a punishment for playing the game,
I wonder, would activating Insidious by standing still after hitting a survivor while frenzied work to trigger the timer of Deep Wounds?
Also, will this update make it completely impossible to get The Legion's trophy/achievement?
Prime example of why I avoided this forum.
Nothing of value added, sad attempt at flame baiting people you disagree with instead of offering any argument or counter-point.
So does this mean that you can infinitely FF-stab a Survivor?
People spread the word on Discord and the Steam Forums as well. I don't see why it's an absurd assumption.
Also, I thought you were done with me?
What's to argue?
Most people are calling the Legion ######### without even trying the changes. Most people are ignoring the fact that he was already bad before these changes will go live.
The difference now is there is no longer a cheese mechanic. And a lot of people are against it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhnsC2V4_0w@kisfenkin Because you lose your TR then yes it would/should.
But again because mending now stops the timer it would be pointless
I like the missed attack change. all killers get punished for missing their attacks, except legion, that never made any sense and never felt fair for the survivor. You could make 5 bad swings and still get hit by legion. I like the part where you can't see bloodmarks during feral frenzy because it felt unfair for survivor to be unable to "escape" from legion since it's like impossible to break LOS because your legit faster than they are.
I don't like the other changes. Terror radius sounds good on paper, because you can see survivors further in your power, but whats the point if you can't catch up to hit them in first place. I don't like the change that makes it so you can't use your power if your power gauge isn't full, that reduces his skill-cap as he can't optimize his power efficiency if he sees other survivors that are grouped as he chases another person.
The inability to hit survivors to further reduce deep wound timer and moonwalk(look at the floor while not in the chase) is mixed opinion. in one way, survivors find that mechanic unfair because gives him 100% certainty to down a survivor, in another way, it's gives his pallet vaulting meaning and gives him a anti-loop. I think that this mechanic is main reason why most survivors disconnect against legion, but no killer really likes fighting god loops because they feel so helpless against them, so it's mixed opinion for whether any killer should options to combat them. That's why people play Nurse, Billy and Spirit and huntress to some degree, so they can speed up downing speed and weaken looping in general.
Oof. These changes straight out killed the Legion. There is no reason, at all, to remove their power entirely on missed attacks while in Frenzy. Why would they also nerf their movement speed while in Frenzy? This is disappointing news, and just leads into asking if they know how to balance at all? Hillbilly moves faster during his power, has an insta down, and no timer on his power.
@Crythor But that's the thing, you CANNOT activate Feral Frenzy after a successful normal hit because that drains the power bar. So Legion's entire power is quite frankly a free early hit. That's it.
Anyone with experience in this game can tell this is not a fix, improvement, or anything close to desirable. Same way a mechanic knows not to tune an engine certain ways without having done it. Experience gives foresight.
You however, just live to poke,prod, and flame bait. It's not constructive to anything, at all. 1500 posts and I'm willing to bet not one was actually helpful to anyone, anywhere.
Have a fantastic day.
Why should I use his power with this changes? that makes no sense, without feral frenzy, im just slightly slower, but can follow the survivor easier, because i can see scratch marks and down him. Thats what I cant with feral frenzy, down my target. Now i can even hit him endless because it does nothing. Its just a useless power. Why should I play trapper without traps? That makes no sense. I played him really rarely, but now, i wont play him.
Point to where I said it fixed anything other than cheese mechanics. Unless, of course you prefer exploiting Deep Wound to do what it's not designed to do?
@CaptainCastle
You misspelled "Fair and Balanced" ;3
From what I can tell... he got nerfed overall right?
I mean he was never that strong to begin with. The changes made it sound like he was this OP #1 killer that needed nerfed.
So Frank's mix tape is 100% gone now?
I'm hard pressed to point to you saying anything other than just being contrarian.
I'm all for removing cheeses. This far exceeds that and literally makes legion a M1 killer.by nerfing his ability and buffing him by default, the typical player will now just M1 their way to victory. We have enough of those. Let's not add another.
And unlike many of the other posters here, I rather fix ######### that makes the game unfun, regardless of the role they main.
That's not an argument and adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. Unlike many of the other posters, you stick to not addressing the topic at all and instead attacking people instead of offering any sort of substance.
Or do you seriously think this rework is perfect?
Also I play both, mostly survivor and mostly pizza dwight😉
A buttload of buffs?
Only 2 or 3 changes are buffs, the rest are nerfs and they quite outnumber the buffs.
I never said it was perfect. I said it stops cheese mechanics. That's good enough for me.
If Legion needs to be buffed after the changes, I'll root for his buffs. But only after I tried him out. Not any sooner.
Also, who the ######### did I attack? What are you talking about?
By "attack the person" that's debate speak for your incessant need to make the topic about people and NOT the topic those people are trying to discuss.
You're literally just being a hindrance to this conversation, and this is my final post addressing you until you actually address the topic aside from " woohoo the cheese is gone, I don't care beyond that" . that's literally the most unconstructive, pointless, and ridiculous position to have.
Have a good night, see you in the fog.
1. Because it's the best strategy to avoid window looping and make time to chase shorter effectively. Now, he is just trapless trapper.
2. Not about this argument. This thread is about "fix" the Legion.
Oh, is that what we we're having?
I thought this was a 'discussion' board. Good job at ignoring what I said about me rooting for Legion if he needs buffs.
if this goes live legion will officially be the worst killer in the game.
Maybe that was the long awaited Freddy buff! :O Mind = blown @ricardo
This plus the missed hit instant end to FF and the buff to base speed will do nothing but promote basic M1 legion.
Survivor mains, and it looks like the devs as well, won't be happy until every killer is just a different skin with essentially the same play.
Can't wait to see them ruin the plague. Better enjoy her until she's destroyed to push players toward buying the next killer and starting the process over.
That's what behavior has been doing all along if people hadn't noticed.
I guess Legion will still be this
"1 - Well a lot of people did exploit the unintended use of Frenzy of Moonwalking for a long ass time, what did you expect?"
That has nothing to do at all toward missed attacks while in Frenzy. It's good that they'd take out the cheese tactic, but that's heavy handed to nerf them to the point their power hurts them more heavily then the mend a survivor would be forced to go through if missed.
"2 - Next in line for "re-work" - Billy"
I sincerely doubt they're changing Billy next, Nurse is much more broken with the correct add-ons. Freddy still needs that rework, too.
Legion needed changes to remove the unfair aspects that made it unfun to play against them, that much is true. These heavy handed nerfs however are awful and strip Legion of being anything more than an M1 killer with an easy first hit.
I had bought ALL the killers, and I quit playing this game because the developers have to hand wins to survivors. I hope more killer main's quit the game, so the developers can now have Suvivor mains complain about not getting into games anymore, like they complain about killers being an actual threat until they get nerfed. The developers ALREADY need to balance the game for the fact that survivors can use voice chat to track killers.
Killer main's just need to quit, see how far survivor mains get when they complain so much they nerf killers into not being fun to play with anymore.
You are ofc right i forgot that xD So that means legions power is only a bit map traverse and other then that he is a m1 killer without ability.