The survivor experience feels like it gets worse and worse with every update

Maps overall became a lot worse than they were before the pallet density. Midwich, Hawkins and lerry‘s have gotten a lot of pallets removed and it wasn‘t even mentioned in the patch notes. Skull merchant map (forgot the name sorry) and disturbed ward got shrunken heavily and got a lot of loops nuked. The other affected maps from the update got a lot of terribly bad pallets now, that are super easy to win as killer and as survivor they are just frustrating to play since there is most times no good way to play them. Then some maps have like almost no windows while the pallets are terrible. You drop the pallet the killer runs around and hits you. You vault it, the killer just hits you or runs around and hits you. Add ping and hit boxes on top and it feels ten times worse. It doesn’t seem like it really matters how you play as survivor. I would like loops that are fun to play and not just a struggle where one tiny mistake instantly gets you killed while the killer can make thousand mistakes and even gets rewarded with bloodlust.

From the promised anti tunnel almost nothing cane through, except those lousy +5 seconds of endurance/haste, that do not really help against tunneling at all and are annoying to deal with as killer in endgame. Tunneling got made even easier by nerfing/shrinking of a lot of maps. At least give us the elusive and no hook notification sound. It would make tunneling more annoying for the killer and give players more time before the killer notices an unhook happened.

Lastly medkits got a hefty undeserved nerf with the explanation that it would be too much with the anti tunnel and pallet density, but guess what got reverted + nerfed further than it was before and what didn‘t. The syringe is kinda pointless now except you wanna do a head on clip for YouTube and the styptic is the worst medkit addon and it lacks creativity, because we already have more than enough charge addons.

The other survivor items don‘t feel much better! Keys are pointless after the killing of the bloodamber addon. Maps are pointless after becoming a worse version of WoO and getting rid of their old function. Fog vials do absolutely nothing after their underserved nerf the second week of their existence.

Playing survivor feels like you loose content every update, like you get punished for playing this side and you keep getting nerfed while killers get buff after buff. Some killers are way too OP and are still untouched, which is so questionable to me.

Agree or disagree with me. I‘m just describing my frustrations with the balance decisions of this game.

Comments

  • @Brokenbones said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048233#Comment_4048233

    OTR is still good though, no killer is waiting out 40s of endurance. The whole point of it as an anti-tunnel perk is to guarantee you get 2 health states if you're tunnelled off hook.

    Styptic/Syringes were just unfair, not saying they shouldn't be impactful or strong but there's a reason why Killer plays found them incredibly frustrating.

    As you see, apparently nobody seems to care that killer players found those add-ons (which were guaranteed free health states) incredibly frustrating to go against. It really isn’t worth the effort trying to convince people who don’t seem to want to consider the perspective of the role that they themselves don’t personally play. You just get a bunch of anonymous downvote bombs with most not willing to provide any sort of counter argument or explanation why they disagree with you.

  • @Firellius said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048286#Comment_4048286

    Where?

    Because I'm on these forums plenty, and I only see it brought up as a counter-argument to people complaining that 'survs OP'.

    I never see it brought up on its own merit, in the way people talk about camping, tunnelling or slugging.

    Here’s a test you can do: create a post that says “survivors should have a 50% average escape rate” and see what ratio of upvotes to downvotes you get.

    Anyway, every time I see it on the forum now I will send you a screen shot if you like 😉

  • @mecca said:

    Of course, that's because survivors don't know how to quit. BHVR has shown in their actions they care nothing about the experience.

    So…survivor players are actually all secretly miserable but still play the game in historically high numbers and spend a lot of money supporting the game anyway?

  • @Classic_Rando said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048235#Comment_4048235

    As you see, apparently nobody seems to care that killer players found those add-ons (which were guaranteed free health states) incredibly frustrating to go against. It really isn’t worth the effort trying to convince people who don’t seem to want to consider the perspective of the role that they themselves don’t personally play.

    I try not to worry about stuff like that too much, for a lot of people it becomes just a circular argument where no side comes to an understanding or agreement about anything.

    It just devolves into:

    "X side finds this frustrating"

    "yeah but Y side has to deal with Z, so it's fine!"

    I'd much prefer it if somebody would just respond with something like "Well, I thought old syringes/stypics were fine because xyz" Even if I end up disagreeing at least I'd get why people thought that way.

  • @Classic_Rando said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048310#Comment_4048310

    Here to support the unpopular opinion that balance needs to be based on the queue times because that is the most objective way of measuring how much relative fun is having. The only opinion that seems to get you upvotes in this thread is “I’m not having fun playing survivor, so please nerf killers and no I don’t care how it affects the experience of those players”.

    Your first post here argued that the game was balanced because of the target kill rate. Now you've moved the goal post to arbitrarily choose queue times.

    Sounds like you've already decided in the answer and are desperately searching for a rationalization for that.

    I'll also point out that queue times are a horrible metric to choose, not just because they vary between regions and time of day, but also because short queue times is specifically the function of the matchmaking system. So, defending matchmaking here is certainly a stance.

  • @AmpersandUnderscore said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048414#Comment_4048414

    Your first post here argued that the game was balanced because of the target kill rate. Now you've moved the goal post to arbitrarily choose queue times.

    Sounds like you've already decided in the answer and are desperately searching for a rationalization for that.

    I'll also point out that queue times are a horrible metric to choose, not just because they vary between regions and time of day, but also because short queue times is specifically the function of the matchmaking system. So, defending matchmaking here is certainly a stance.

    I didn’t “move” anything. Kill/escape rates and queue times are very much linked together, not mutually exclusive. The 60/40 ratio has led to much more balanced queue times during peak hours, which is exactly what I am aiming for if I am BHVR.

  • @Classic_Rando said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048436#Comment_4048436

    I didn’t “move” anything. Kill/escape rates and queue times are very much linked together, not mutually exclusive. The 60/40 ratio has led to much more balanced queue times during peak hours, which is exactly what I am aiming for if I am BHVR.

    Kill/escape rates and queue times are very much linked together, not mutually exclusive. The 60/40 ratio has led to much more balanced queue times

    2v8 alone proves that this analysis doesn't work the way you want it to.

    Escape rates are higher in 2v8 and queue times are terrible, but not because "killers aren't playing" it's exactly the opposite: survivors don't want to queue up.

    By your metric no killer would touch 2v8, yet it's the most popular game mode this game has ever seen. At least for killers.

    Which also is more evidence that survivors don't generally care as much about "winning" as much as the gameplay.

  • @Langweilig said:

    Maps overall became a lot worse than they were before the pallet density. Midwich, Hawkins and lerry‘s have gotten a lot of pallets removed and it wasn‘t even mentioned in the patch notes. Skull merchant map (forgot the name sorry) and disturbed ward got shrunken heavily and got a lot of loops nuked. The other affected maps from the update got a lot of terribly bad pallets now, that are super easy to win as killer and as survivor they are just frustrating to play since there is most times no good way to play them. Then some maps have like almost no windows while the pallets are terrible. You drop the pallet the killer runs around and hits you. You vault it, the killer just hits you or runs around and hits you. Add ping and hit boxes on top and it feels ten times worse. It doesn’t seem like it really matters how you play as survivor. I would like loops that are fun to play and not just a struggle where one tiny mistake instantly gets you killed while the killer can make thousand mistakes and even gets rewarded with bloodlust.

    From the promised anti tunnel almost nothing cane through, except those lousy +5 seconds of endurance/haste, that do not really help against tunneling at all and are annoying to deal with as killer in endgame. Tunneling got made even easier by nerfing/shrinking of a lot of maps. At least give us the elusive and no hook notification sound. It would make tunneling more annoying for the killer and give players more time before the killer notices an unhook happened.

    Lastly medkits got a hefty undeserved nerf with the explanation that it would be too much with the anti tunnel and pallet density, but guess what got reverted + nerfed further than it was before and what didn‘t. The syringe is kinda pointless now except you wanna do a head on clip for YouTube and the styptic is the worst medkit addon and it lacks creativity, because we already have more than enough charge addons.

    The other survivor items don‘t feel much better! Keys are pointless after the killing of the bloodamber addon. Maps are pointless after becoming a worse version of WoO and getting rid of their old function. Fog vials do absolutely nothing after their underserved nerf the second week of their existence.

    Playing survivor feels like you loose content every update, like you get punished for playing this side and you keep getting nerfed while killers get buff after buff. Some killers are way too OP and are still untouched, which is so questionable to me.

    Agree or disagree with me. I‘m just describing my frustrations with the balance decisions of this game.

    genuinely i think dbd becoming as competitive as its gotten is effectively killing the atmosphere for both sides, making people leave.

  • @drag27 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048158#Comment_4048158

    he's not, he's pointing something out that happens alot in this forum. your response is proof of that

    Quite funny how you showed your true face too.

  • @oreoslurpee said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463022/the-survivor-experience-feels-like-it-gets-worse-and-worse-with-every-update

    genuinely i think dbd becoming as competitive as its gotten is effectively killing the atmosphere for both sides, making people leave.

    They didnt make this game more competitive. There is no visible mmr. The matchmaking prioritizes short queues. Game is still pretty unbalanced considering everything.

    It is the community with tourneys and similar formats and the popularization of winstreaks by tryhard streamers.

    The thing they did is just make the game harder for survivor overtime.

    So idk, how do you stop something which the community itself did.

  • This content has been removed.
  • you dont even know but accuse me if you like

  • @Coffeecrashing said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048104#Comment_4048104

    The problem is when we try to talk about making the gameplay fun for killers, the conversation gets an overwhelming amount of pushback.

    Excessive hiding is unfun for killers, and we we SUPPOSED TO have a phase 1 update to address this problem, but survivors complained they are "just trying to survive", and got the entire thing nerfed so badly that BHVR might as well just revert the AFK crows to what they were before phase 1.

    Bully SWFs are unfun for killers, but if people try to talk about that, we get told it's not really a problem, or "at least they aren't doing gens"

    Gen rushing is unfun for killers, but if people try to talk about that, we get told "it's not real" or "that's not what gen rushing is"

    Being forced to slug isn't fun for killers, but if people try to talk about that, we get told "slugging is worse for survivors" or "it's not really a problem"

    Voice comms and SWFs aren't fun for killers, but if people try to talk about that, we get told "you can't punish people for playing with friends"

    So really, when people say "making the gameplay fun", the vast majority of the time it's really "making the gameplay fun FOR SURVIVORS ONLY"

    Honestly, the hiding update and antitunnel update both turned out the same, shot down by the community, with only fragments left in the game.

    BHVR tried to make the game fun for both sides, but this community decided that they don't want that.

  • @oreoslurpee said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463022/the-survivor-experience-feels-like-it-gets-worse-and-worse-with-every-update

    genuinely i think dbd becoming as competitive as its gotten is effectively killing the atmosphere for both sides, making people leave.

    I wholeheartedly agree with this honestly, I hate the content creation space which is enabling this nonsense

  • @SoGo said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048155#Comment_4048155

    Honestly, the hiding update and antitunnel update both turned out the same, shot down by the community, with only fragments left in the game.

    BHVR tried to make the game fun for both sides, but this community decided that they don't want that.

    I still think that what happened in the phase 2 QoL, was the fault of what happened in the phase 1 QoL.

    There were SO MANY people that demanded the phase 1 survivor nerfs by as light as possible, and demanded phase 1 never punish survivors unless it was 100% certain the survivor was purposely doing the bad behavior.

    We even had survivors sharing video footage of themselves not doing anything useful for long periods of time, getting AFK crows, and yelling "you're punishing me for THIS? I'm just trying to SURVIVE".

  • @Coffeecrashing said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048687#Comment_4048687

    I still think that what happened in the phase 2 QoL, was the fault of what happened in the phase 1 QoL.

    There were SO MANY people that demanded the phase 1 survivor nerfs by as light as possible, and demanded phase 1 never punish survivors unless it was 100% certain the survivor was purposely doing the bad behavior.

    We even had survivors sharing video footage of themselves not doing anything useful for long periods of time, getting AFK crows, and yelling "you're punishing me for THIS? I'm just trying to SURVIVE".

    Alternatively, they shouldn't have punished people for trying to cleanse totems.

    They also shouldn't have punished people for being tunneled out.

    Basic stuff like that would've gone a long way.

  • @Classic_Rando said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048073#Comment_4048073

    ”They could honestly make the kill rate 90% and if they found a way to make the game actually fun for survivors to play while losing then people would likely not care about the kill rate stat.”

    No, “honestly” that isn’t true at all. People complain about the game on both sides because they lose more often than they think they should. You are trying to make this way more complicated than it is. I understand now why the devs have such a difficult time making the game “fun” for people when they are getting such nebulous feedback about what makes the game “fun”. People are going to have more fun if they are winning and not losing - it’s quite simple.

    the problem is the 2 sides fun is at the cost of the other so balance is harder han it would be in a non asym and the problem with a lot of a syms is they heavily favor survivors and die because no one wants to play killer

  • @SoGo said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048155#Comment_4048155

    Honestly, the hiding update and antitunnel update both turned out the same, shot down by the community, with only fragments left in the game.

    BHVR tried to make the game fun for both sides, but this community decided that they don't want that.

    Nah devs decided to turn tails cause the biased ones were barking the loudest. Devs need to stop being scared every time.

  • @Brokenbones said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048233#Comment_4048233

    OTR is still good though, no killer is waiting out 40s of endurance. The whole point of it as an anti-tunnel perk is to guarantee you get 2 health states if you're tunnelled off hook.

    Styptic/Syringes were just unfair, not saying they shouldn't be impactful or strong but there's a reason why Killer plays found them incredibly frustrating.

    How is of the record good tho? It basically punishes you for being a good player. „You loop the killer for too long, ah means you don‘t need it’s effect“. This perk is worthless and does not even work as an anti tunnel perk.

    Styptics could easily be waited out and syringes required you to loop the killer for quite some time to activate mid chase, which was high risk high reward. If it healed people too fast they could have just nerfed the numbers by +10seconds and they would be perfectly fine. I don‘t get why everything in this game needs a stupid rework instead of just changing the numbers when that‘s all that is needed.

  • @diablo916 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463022/the-survivor-experience-feels-like-it-gets-worse-and-worse-with-every-update

    Well they keep nerfing every strategy killer gets so dont be surprised when survivor gets stale.

    Well camping is still perfectly viable, 3 gening still works just fine, tunneling was never easier after nerfing maps and anti tunnel perks and you can still perfectly face camp as bubba. So what did they take away now? I‘m not seeing it. You can still do every strategy

  • @Crowman said:

    The reality is that the experience of the game as a whole is degrading and it's not just a survivor or killer thing. The current state of game balance is both sides speedrunning their objective and trying to avoid as much interaction as possible.

    Not to mention this community is trying to rival the peak toxicity of LoL.

    I agree the devs need to either rework gens to allow for a slower pace or add more worthwhile side objectives, that are worth doing for survivors (like boons/chests/new easter eggs….).

  • @Rogue11 said:

    Still waiting for the flood of perkless Ghostface and Trapper players that were just waiting for anti-camp, anti-tunnel, anti-slug, and pallet density to be cancelled before returning to the game for fun wholesome matches. Oh right, its still the same OP killers on repeat with no viable options in chase for survivors.

    Same. I‘m still waiting to play against more than the same 5 killers every match. People simply chose the easiest path of least resistance, so nerfing survivors across the board only benefits the stronger killers, because the weaker killers still lack behind

  • @SoGo said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048155#Comment_4048155

    Honestly, the hiding update and antitunnel update both turned out the same, shot down by the community, with only fragments left in the game.

    BHVR tried to make the game fun for both sides, but this community decided that they don't want that.

    I never got the point of the anti hiding update. Isn‘t the game still labeled as an hide and seek. The first anti tunnel update was good except of those punishments. It just needed a few tweaks.

  • @Langweilig said:

    Maps overall became a lot worse than they were before the pallet density. Midwich, Hawkins and lerry‘s have gotten a lot of pallets removed and it wasn‘t even mentioned in the patch notes. Skull merchant map (forgot the name sorry) and disturbed ward got shrunken heavily and got a lot of loops nuked. The other affected maps from the update got a lot of terribly bad pallets now, that are super easy to win as killer and as survivor they are just frustrating to play since there is most times no good way to play them. Then some maps have like almost no windows while the pallets are terrible. You drop the pallet the killer runs around and hits you. You vault it, the killer just hits you or runs around and hits you. Add ping and hit boxes on top and it feels ten times worse. It doesn’t seem like it really matters how you play as survivor. I would like loops that are fun to play and not just a struggle where one tiny mistake instantly gets you killed while the killer can make thousand mistakes and even gets rewarded with bloodlust.

    From the promised anti tunnel almost nothing cane through, except those lousy +5 seconds of endurance/haste, that do not really help against tunneling at all and are annoying to deal with as killer in endgame. Tunneling got made even easier by nerfing/shrinking of a lot of maps. At least give us the elusive and no hook notification sound. It would make tunneling more annoying for the killer and give players more time before the killer notices an unhook happened.

    Lastly medkits got a hefty undeserved nerf with the explanation that it would be too much with the anti tunnel and pallet density, but guess what got reverted + nerfed further than it was before and what didn‘t. The syringe is kinda pointless now except you wanna do a head on clip for YouTube and the styptic is the worst medkit addon and it lacks creativity, because we already have more than enough charge addons.

    The other survivor items don‘t feel much better! Keys are pointless after the killing of the bloodamber addon. Maps are pointless after becoming a worse version of WoO and getting rid of their old function. Fog vials do absolutely nothing after their underserved nerf the second week of their existence.

    Playing survivor feels like you loose content every update, like you get punished for playing this side and you keep getting nerfed while killers get buff after buff. Some killers are way too OP and are still untouched, which is so questionable to me.

    Agree or disagree with me. I‘m just describing my frustrations with the balance decisions of this game.

    Not only should the killer not get a notification when someone is unhooked but they should never see the aura of the hook they are on. Outside of end game feel this could be worth a try. But at the same time I think they should factor in gen focus and not ignore gen rushing as an issue.

  • @Langweilig said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048687#Comment_4048687

    I never got the point of the anti hiding update. Isn‘t the game still labeled as an hide and seek. The first anti tunnel update was good except of those punishments. It just needed a few tweaks.

    Hiding was one of the only ways to counter some of the higher tier killers too lol

  • @Rokku_Rorru said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048962#Comment_4048962

    Hiding was one of the only ways to counter some of the higher tier killers too lol

    it's the only infinite resource to handle the likes of Nurse.

    it's why I'm sad about vials. getting them only helped the poor oppressed mobility killers

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4048481#Comment_4048481

    They didnt make this game more competitive. There is no visible mmr. The matchmaking prioritizes short queues. Game is still pretty unbalanced considering everything.

    It is the community with tourneys and similar formats and the popularization of winstreaks by tryhard streamers.

    The thing they did is just make the game harder for survivor overtime.

    So idk, how do you stop something which the community itself did.

    by competitive i mean the atmosphere of the game. the game has shifted very far from its indie horror aspects, like most maps have been changed/created with the ability to see across the map, making maps 3x brighter than before, and changing maps and removing its identity, all in the name of game balance. in my opinion, maps were almost always hated on because of things like loops, infinites, etc, and the devs should've just kept their eyes on those things, not what makes the game actually scary. its so disappointing too especially with the developed graphics update we got.

  • @Langweilig said:

    Maps overall became a lot worse than they were before the pallet density. Midwich, Hawkins and lerry‘s have gotten a lot of pallets removed and it wasn‘t even mentioned in the patch notes. Skull merchant map (forgot the name sorry) and disturbed ward got shrunken heavily and got a lot of loops nuked. The other affected maps from the update got a lot of terribly bad pallets now, that are super easy to win as killer and as survivor they are just frustrating to play since there is most times no good way to play them. Then some maps have like almost no windows while the pallets are terrible. You drop the pallet the killer runs around and hits you. You vault it, the killer just hits you or runs around and hits you. Add ping and hit boxes on top and it feels ten times worse. It doesn’t seem like it really matters how you play as survivor. I would like loops that are fun to play and not just a struggle where one tiny mistake instantly gets you killed while the killer can make thousand mistakes and even gets rewarded with bloodlust.

    From the promised anti tunnel almost nothing cane through, except those lousy +5 seconds of endurance/haste, that do not really help against tunneling at all and are annoying to deal with as killer in endgame. Tunneling got made even easier by nerfing/shrinking of a lot of maps. At least give us the elusive and no hook notification sound. It would make tunneling more annoying for the killer and give players more time before the killer notices an unhook happened.

    Lastly medkits got a hefty undeserved nerf with the explanation that it would be too much with the anti tunnel and pallet density, but guess what got reverted + nerfed further than it was before and what didn‘t. The syringe is kinda pointless now except you wanna do a head on clip for YouTube and the styptic is the worst medkit addon and it lacks creativity, because we already have more than enough charge addons.

    The other survivor items don‘t feel much better! Keys are pointless after the killing of the bloodamber addon. Maps are pointless after becoming a worse version of WoO and getting rid of their old function. Fog vials do absolutely nothing after their underserved nerf the second week of their existence.

    Playing survivor feels like you loose content every update, like you get punished for playing this side and you keep getting nerfed while killers get buff after buff. Some killers are way too OP and are still untouched, which is so questionable to me.

    Agree or disagree with me. I‘m just describing my frustrations with the balance decisions of this game.

    You have a billion pallets each map.
    Tons of loop areas.
    Many, MANY second chance perks.
    SWF + Comms.

    I do not WANT to HEAR IT.

  • @WriteByDaylight_ said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463022/the-survivor-experience-feels-like-it-gets-worse-and-worse-with-every-update

    You have a billion pallets each map.
    Tons of loop areas.
    Many, MANY second chance perks.
    SWF + Comms.

    I do not WANT to HEAR IT.

    Did you really need to dig up this fossil?

  • Just to find something to be upset about lmao

  • Holy self report. The last few new maps and map updates are completely survivor sided.

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