Revert/Readjust Flashbang Angle #SaveBangs
Hello, my name is Blake. I've previously gone by Renfurr and been playing this game since 2016. I'm a survivor and Hillbilly/M1 Variety Main. I'm kind of known as being the flashlight/flashbang locker dude, generic "toxic" survivor main as I've been doing locker saves since as early as 2017. Just a quick headsup that it is currently like 4am for me and I am sick with the flu so please bare with me if I forget to cover some things in this post.
This is going to be a pretty in-depth post regarding flashbangs and the recent change that was made in the latest update.
As of the recent update with the release of Tokyo Ghoul, the developers decided to make a change to Flashbangs. This change was written in a way to make it seem like this was a bug rather than a straight up nerf to Firecrackers, Party Starts, and Flashbangs.
Perks
- Fixed an issue that caused a Killer to be blinded while looking away from a Flashbang.
In reality, this change was a direct nerf to the Flashbang perk and Firecracker/Party Starter items. What this change does is that it decreases the blind angle/radius of these items.
Here is the exact line of code from the tunable values file pulled straight from FModel.
After 8.6.0
"Firecracker_BlindEffectLineOfSightThreshold": {
"Value": 0.422618,
"Description": "Angle threshold above which players will be blinded. Value of 1.0 means staring directly at the Firecracker, 0.0 at 90 degrees, and -1.0 at 180 degrees"
},
Before 8.6.0
"Firecracker_BlindEffectLineOfSightThreshold": {
"Value": 0.0,
"Description": "Angle threshold above which players will be blinded. Value of 1.0 means staring directly at the Firecracker, 0.0 at 90 degrees, and -1.0 at 180 degrees"
},
Why Does This Matter?
Well, this matters for a multitude of reasons. To make it short, here's a small list if you don't want to read the entire post.
- Makes it near impossible to hit Flashbang Locker Saves on killers with KBM inputs/on PC.
- There is no sensitivity limit to KBM/PC Players, it takes only 2 frames to turn away
- There is no buffer to locker saves (KEEP IT THAT WAY)
- The reduced cone/angle decreases the amount of frames that a Flashbang will potentially result in a grasp rescue
- It is pure luck to actually hit a locker save (explained later on)
- Directly provides a disadvantage to killer players on Console
- Because there is a sensitivity cap for killers on controller inputs or on console, they cannot possibly turn their camera like a PC player, making it still pretty easy to hit locker bangs on them.
- You can no longer hit saves at a 90 degree angle, or "Wall" saves, where the killer is facing a wall.
- Creates really weird scenarios where the Flashbang or Firecracker looks like it should blind, but doesn't.
- Flashbang popping in the killers POV but still not blinding or being right at their feet and still not blinding.
- Removes a skill ceiling from the game, removes re-playability, and takes away a lot of fun interactions between survivors and killers
And before I continue with this post, it should already be obvious but I do not have a bias to either side. Yes, I main survivor and have been playing since 2016. But I want healthy gameplay for both sides, to promote any form of skillful gameplay on both sides, and to promote fun/different playstyles outside of running your generic anti-tunnel or chase builds, rushing gens as fast as possible and just outing the killer.
Proposed Changes (TL:DR)
From here on out, I will be going more in-depth. If you can't be bothered to read everything, here are the proposed suggestions.
- Revert the blind angle back to 0.0, or 90 degrees - killers being blinded while turning away is an issue with the network/latency from either the game server or the client, the blind angle is NOT the issue.
- Readjust the new blind angle to be somewhere between 65 and 75 degrees.
Cont. Information
From here on out, we will get more in-depth with the actual mechanics behind firecrackers and flashbangs.
Here are some basic numbers pulled from the game files.
Disturbance Distance Min. (Loud Noise): 2m
Disturbance Distance Max (Loud Noise): 100m
Blind Duration: 3s
Firecracker Explosion Radius: 7.5m (3/4 of One Wall on Shack or 3/4 of Max Flashlight Distance w/ no addons)
Flashbang Explosion Radius: 5m (Tip of Red Stain where it fades out)
Default Explosion Delay: 1s
Time to Throw: 0.5s (How long after pressing the throw input before triggering the default explosion delay)
Server Tickrate: 60Hz, or 60FPS.
Bang Blind Angle after 8.6.0: Unknown exact value, but roughly the size of the red stain.
Normal Pickups, Grab Saves, and Dredge Power (Locker) Saves all have a 0.4s Buffer, similar to flashlights
Locker Flashbang Saves do NOT have the buffer applied to them. (And we DON'T want it)
Locker Pull Animation Duration(No Perks): 5s or 600 Frames (120fps) 300 Frames (60FPS)
Normal Animation/Grabs Duration(No Perks): 3s, 360 Frames (120fps) 180 Frames (60FPS)
General Rules for Flashbangs
- If the killer has Higher FPS/Lower Ping = The more perfect your timing needs to be because the killer's client/network is sending and receiving data at faster intervals.
- If the killer has Lower FPS/Higher Ping = Survivors must adjust timing to throw LATER than normal timing because the killer's client/network is sending and receiving data at slower intervals
- Killers on console or controller inputs are easier to hit locker flashbangs on because their maximum sensitivity is limited, resulting in slower turns and more frames where a flashbang has a chance of blinding. (About 8-12 Frames after the animation depending on their hardware and sensitivity)
- Before the 8.6.0 update, you had about 4-6 Frames after the animation to hit a flashbang locker save on a PC killer who was trying to flick or turn away from the blind quickly. This solely depended on their ping as PC killers with less than 60fps is NOT common.
- After the 8.6.0 update, PC killers now flick away in 1-2 Frames after the animation because the blind angle is severely reduced as opposed to the original 90 degree blind. There is less area that the killer needs to cover when turning in order to avoid the blind.
- Looking straight up while flicking/moving your mouse and using the up arrow/camera up keybind as Killer makes your character look all the way up in 1-2 Frames always, so killers who knew about this were impossible to save against, even when the blind angle was wider.
Because the server is running at 60Hz, for every 16.67ms, is equal to 1 Frame (60FPS) or 2 Frames (120FPS).
An example of this would be the survivor having 40ms and the killer having 80ms.
The survivor now needs to factor in their input delay (2 Frames, 40/16.67) and the killers ping (4 Frames, 80/16.67). Assuming we are playing at 120FPS, that means the flashbang needs to explode on Frame 604 to be considered a perfect or "God" frame.
Note: Can yall make the blind radius/range of Bangs and Firecrackers the same btw? :3 <3
Inconsistencies/Bugs
The actual time before a flashbang/firecracker explodes is roughly 2 seconds, which is kind of odd as it should be 1.5s according to the code. I assume the time to throw time is applied twice, once when you press the input, and once again after the item icon actually disappears from your hand. I'm not 100% sure on that, but the timing is roughly 2 seconds.
Certain killers (Hunchback Killers) have bugged animations that make them sink inside of the locker making it extremely hard to flashbang locker save against as the bangs need a precise spot to land or an extra world object to line it up perfectly (for example, spots where two lockers spawn next to each other: Water Tower Locker on Macmillan Maps, Double locker spawns on generic Autohaven Tiles)
These killers include;
- Blight
- Demogorgon
- Singularity
The time between pressing the input to throw the flashbang/firecracker is inconsistent. On the release day of Tokyo Ghoul, we sat in customs for over 5 hours just throwing bangs and trying to hit on a killer on PC that is trying to flick or turn away. I recorded about 15 of these saves that I went for and marked down the timings of the frames when I pressed the input and when the flashbang exploded. The gameplay was recorded at 120fps, therefore, the time should be consistent, the bang should explode after 240 frames if we go by our 2 second rule. Well, it is inconsistent. I've attached a spreadsheet with my data from those 15 saves.
The TL;DR is that the lowest amount of frames before the flashbang exploded was 227 Frames. The highest amount was 237 Frames.
I will provide a spreadsheet to view my data from these 15 saves in this post as well as a link to view on Google Docs towards the bottom of the post.
ErrorPermission ProblemBang Testing.xlsxClose
General Conclusion and Counter Arguments
This change was extremely harsh, for zero reason. It completely removes a skill from the Survivors which is already extremely rare. You don't see flashbang squads every day who are really good at what they do. Most people don't even understand the mechanics behind them fully.
This angle change completely ruins a playstyle for many people and communities out in the fog, and it only affects players who have been practicing or playing for a long time/put in countless hours of trying to practice in public or custom games just to get a grasp of the timing.
By keeping this change in the game, you are killing the item/perk, removing killer/survivor interaction, reducing teamplay mechanics of an unconventional playstyle in a team-based 4v1, which by the way, has a perk that completely negates anything this item can do (Lightborn) as well as the new perk that came out which throws off timing completely and makes it a guessing game (Forever Entwined).
Not to mention, this forces the game into a more competitive direction. Players who run these perks/items, guess what they want? To have fun. To have equal and shared killer-survivor interaction. Typically, they don't want to escape and will be slammed by someone who is actually good at killer while also allowing for less experienced killer players to gain chase experience or try out their power in different ways, albeit it may be frustrating, the game is still being progressed and if progression does stop, the abandon feature now kills the survivors essentially.
We don't want to be forced to run the meta anti-tunnel or full chase builds every single game, rush through the objective, and be out of the trial within 8 to 10 minutes. The fun of this game comes from interaction between both sides. This playstyle allows for players to have something to do outside of the objective, allowing for teamplay in high risk, high reward and exciting situations. Sharing chases and trying to go for nasty plays is far more interactive and fun for both sides than having one person being tunneled out all game or being chased the entire game because they're running a syringe with Finesse, Vigil, Lithe/SB/Dramaturgy, and Resilience while the rest of the survivors sit on generators and escape.
Anyways, thanks for listening to my TED Talk.
Onto the Counter Arguments!
Locker Flashbangs aren't fair, I'm locked into animation for 5 seconds!
Survivors must be attentive to the ping and platform of players in the match and learn a very specific timing for varying pings, input delays, frame rates, while also not getting downed outside of a locker. Many killer players have told me how skill-less it is to do these over the years, but I have yet to see a killer player try to hit a locker save. It may seem easy, but I promise you, it is very impressive to consistently hit these types of saves when you consider all the nuances of the mechanics, chase powers, teamplay/coordination, and other nuances in the game.
Double Locker Setups are extremely broken, if they have Head On, I have no choice but to pull them and eat the stun/save or wait out crows just to get ONE!
I completely agree, lockers should not spawn right next to each other within Head On range. These were spawning in abundance after the Dredge update as a way to incorporate him into map design. Double lockers are indeed broken and lead to very unfun and frustrating experiences for the killer. In fact, that is why flashlight locker saves were removed. I used to do flashlight lockers before it became popular on twitch and in content creation. Once it gained popularity, people started bringing flashlights with built to last and double charge addons and would just sit in lockers until their beams ran out or until the server closed. The issue was never flashlight locker saves, the issue has always been double locker setups. These absolutely should be removed from the game and I apologize if you've ever had to deal with survivors like this. It is fun for one side and not the other, and we don't want that. We want fun interaction for both sides that rewards better plays. As a survivor main, I promise, we aren't all evil and out to hurt the other side <3
Well, it's also not fair that I can kiss a wall and still get blinded!
Again, I absolutely agree that it can be frustrating. But this can be countered by simply doing a quick glance around the area for other survivors and pushing them away far enough to where they cannot get the save in time. Remember, they have to throw that bang in front of your feet between 0.6 and 1 second after starting the animation. Unless there are multiple survivors covering all angles, forcing them away a certain distance and doing a unique turn will often give you a free hook. Hitting a wall save is simply a misplay on the killer players' behalf and a reward for positioning on the survivors behalf!
I can't counter grab saves because they just abuse the buffer and spam vault pallets/lockers.
If you lunge instead of short swinging, it will always result in a slug rather than a down. As for the buffer, as an old head DBD player, I think buffer should be removed completely to add skill back into the game. But from the developers' perspective, buffer exists to make these items and shenanigans more accessible to newer players or people who do not play as much. As much as I would love to have no buffer, it's unfair to newer players. Though, that doesn't mean it can't be revisited later by the developers to reduce the duration of buffer to make it require a bit more skill.
Survivors refuse to leave the Killer Shack or other tiles and don't progress the game!
There is now an abandon feature for situations like this where if you're just fed up, you can abandon the match after 10 minutes of no objective progress. But to not sound like an ######### and just say GO NEXT, you have to remember, flashbangs are a finite resource. For every 40% of a generator completed, that is one flashbang. Meaning survivors have to progress the game in order to craft more or your perks regress generators so that survivors can craft more flashbangs. Survivors can also bring in a firecracker to carry multiple flashbangs in their inventory. But as I mentioned, their resources are limited, if you genuinely don't know what to do, take that risk and JUST PULL the locker. It's a gamble whether the survivors hit the save or not. If they hit the save, remember, it's high risk and high reward. If they miss the save, that is a hook stage on your behalf!
Survivors who do this type of stuff are always BMing me and being toxic though?!
Try not to take it personally, bad days happen and we get that. At the end of the day, it's a game and we just want to have fun. Anything that happens in the game stems from a grain of salt or to spice up the game by getting in your head. At the end of the match, nobody is there to genuinely make you feel miserable outside of a few bad apples. <3
As an M1 killer with no perks or useful chase power, I can't do anything against survivors who are really good at abusing single locker rotations, what can I do?
Sadly, this has always been an issue for killers like wraith, plague, pig, bubba, etc. Luckily, not many players out there actually know how to use the locker rotation strategy properly against Tier 3 Bloodlust. I understand this is a frustrating thing to experience when you eventually do run into a coordinated squad like this, but believe me, it is rare. For now, the only option is to just pull and waste their bang resources. This is another one of those things that comes down to the developers and how they would want to go about nerfing this strategy, whether it be a locker pull change (like changing the animation from 5 seconds to 4 seconds) or increasing the length of certain tiles to prevent this strategy. However, like I said, this is kind of a non-issue because it is so rare and probably hasn't been on their radar nor is it an easy issue to address in other ways without affecting other aspects of the game.
If I missed any arguments you may have, feel free to ask below and I can provide a response, though, I'm pretty sure this covers most of the main complaints I've gotten from players and content creators over the years.
Extra Media
Example of a Flashbang Save that should've hit, but didn't hit. Looks really odd seeing a grenade blow up in front of a killer and not being phased by it at all? No lightborn, they had Deadlock, Lethal Pursuer, BBQ, Pain Resonance.
40ms Survivor, 80ms Killer. Both 120fps. Bang explodes frame 604, same frame that killer slightly turns to the left. Should be "god" frame but does nothing because of the angle change update.
Wall bangs no longer work because of the angle change, also some footage of other wacky angles that SHOULD blind.
I would post some screenshots of the bang being like a pixel outside of the red stain right in front of the killers' feet and not blinding them but it is giving me permission errors on here, but you can always go test it out in a custom if you want to see it yourself in game, sorry <3
If you have any other footage or clips of your bangs being whack and not blinding killers during this update, please reply to this post with it or say something. The only way we'll get this reverted or adjusted is by being very vocal about it towards the developers <3
#SaveBangs
P.S. Make lockers glow with a bright yellow or white aura that intensifies when a survivor is in it with Head On ;) Had to slide that in there for the SoloQ gamers
Comments
Did you just admit to purposely dropping flashbangs in places that would muffle the sound?
There used to be a bug that made them completely silent, that was fixed. Throwing bangs around walls is a mechanic. Especially by starting chase first to add in chase music. The noise is loud and can be heard so it was a strategy called “pre-banging”. Using chase music and physical walls paired with pre dropping the bang around a corner was a glod way to mitigate the noise so that when killers turned a corner, they would eat a “pre bang” blind. This was mostly done in basement at the stairs where you could basically use 2 walls and chase music to make it extremely hard to hear.
That is not a bug though. Its just using game sense and mechanics to make a play.
It is intended for killers to be able to hear the flashbang, which is why the audio was made more reliable.
Therefore, it was an UNINTENDED mechanic to purposely muffle the flashbang noises so that many killers can't hear them.
Im aware. As I said, it was a bug. But im talking about something entirely different. That sound bug wasnt even mentioned in this post because it was fixed.
Right.
https://x.com/lazlxv/status/1909409035721245180
All is well in the world once again. Good riddance, flash bang bully squads. Still running lightborn every game though lmfao
Where is this energy for literally anything else in the game? why doesnt it matter thati only hit consistently because im a talented player or have practiced and missed a ton to get there? for what reason should the things that i enjoy about the game not matter please enlighten me. How is it not also relevant that hardly anyone can reliably hit locker saves? this change doesnt even intentionally target lockers and doesnt even patch them out, it just makes them harder as a biproduct of a unrelated change. Which only even affects killers with good ping and high sensitivity, and even if it did why is gutting it as a whole interaction the only thing we are offered when it has an entire community. At least address the whole post, its more than just lockers, its more than just angles or wall saves. This response is just so dismissive.
Yeah bug is definately not the word LMAO
It's fair enough its unintended, but it's a nerf, it's a balance change, you didn't fix any bug, you just made it less effective lol.
Good riddance. Most of the reason I ran Lightborn every game was to deal with uncounterable flashbang saves.
https://x.com/lazlxv/status/1909409035721245180
Posting this here too FIX BANGS !
If any CMs or Devs read this, the official response from Mandy was disingenuous as hell.
Firecrackers released in 1.3.0, Feb 2017.
Since then, the blind angle has never once been touched. It has always been a flat 90 degrees and even had a developer note stating that.
That is EIGHT years. Nearly a decade.
Jesterret started a repository on GitHub that would upload the dbd pak files from as early as 1.7
Serialization of these files on the repository started in 2.0.0
Here is a link to the earliest serialized version of the Tunable Values file on 2.0.0
https://github.com/jesterret/DBDPakTrack/blob/9ac79fafecce71741440eabec96824426fd722dd/DeadByDaylight/Content/Data/TunableValuesDB.uasset
To easily find the code, do Ctrl + F and search for “Firecracker_BlindEffectLineOfSightThreshold”
Jesterret has serialized versions of these files on the GitHub all the way up until whichever patch introduced a new file system/UE5.
I completely understand nerfing the angle. But you guys went about this horribly. Giving a disingenuous response, ignoring the issues with bang that I stated in the post, which I don’t think you guys even fukly read, by the way. At least acknowledge it and maybe I dunno, reply to some of the people on here who actually understand what they are talking about and don’t heavily favor one side over the other?
Anyways, just in case you missed it from the OP @Mandy
The issue is that flashbangs and firecrackers have a random inconsistency of anywhere from 33ms to 166ms (220-238 frames, at 120fps) when throwing a bang. This means that whenever the user presses the input to throw, and the frame that the bang explodes and blinds the killer, is random every time you throw a bang. It is supposed to be a flat 240 frames, or 2 seconds. This matters immensely because when both players have good ping and framerates, it can completely screw over the survivors timing, making saves pure, random luck if they get proper delay on the explosion or not.
If those players couldn't win without broken mechanics and exploits they're no big loss
So can lightborn be nerfed since it robs survivors to protect themselves. Nerf it to 4 tokens like pain res, how is this fair?
its just like distortion how killer qq one perk shouldn't be countering all aura add ons and perks. Lightborn should not be survivors few defense all match.
I'm assuming that firecrackers will have the exact same change considering they are basically the same item apart from the sound and having a different model and explosion effects?
That part it clearly once again shows the favoritism good one to bring up. Reminds meof boons, they had shattered hope but killers didn't wanna use it and if they don't have lightborn to begin with to counter even the so call bugged flashbang its so disgusting.
Hitting consistently here is bad because the killer has no real counterplay, especially vs perks like background player
Also this is the same player who made similar posts regarding locker flashlight saves when they were removed, the saves are funny to land but theyre not healthy for the game
Considering how much nerfs are given to survivors and all the perks that give the killer insane pressure for doing the bare minimum, on top of the skill required to learn all the different timings + actuallh coordinate a save with a teammate and not end up on the floor before making it to a locker. It is fair. Its a strategy that requires good teamplay and strong chase mechanics to really abuse.
Now, in its current state, there are definitely mechanics of the bang and other perks that need to be nerfed to make it less oppressive from the average jimmy survivor who just slaps on BGP and make the game insufferable. Nerf the problematic perks and game mechanics/map design. Not gut an entire item just because other things are busted af. Youre taking away a whole community and dumbing down the game just because the devs thought it was a great idea to create side by side locker spawns at every tile for dredge as well as a perk that gives an adrenaline effect as soon as the killer picks a survivor up.
These things are the issue - not flashbang. You can disagree all you want. But these things are an issue whether flashbang is in play or not. Double lockers with head on vigil, killers have to pull and eat a grasp rescue, just for them to do it again in about 20 seconds, lose lose situation. Background player lets your teammate die on a pallet while youre miles away and then gives you a free save every time - pair it with WGLF and it gives them a free reset with endurance if the killer wants to slug, yet another lose lose situation.
Reward players for learning to hold chase and learn timings. Dont take away skilled aspects of the game just because the developers make poor design choices for perks and map design. You can quite literally hold any killer hostage in the basement with a 4 stack of vigil + head on but we wont talk about that?
anyone arguing that locker bangs arent fine outside of the issues ive brought up in this post lack any game sense. Ive suggested changes to make it more fair to the killer and remove the BS things that make it insufferable. Killers just want to have the easiest game possible. Locker bangs are the only thing you can do against a GOOD killer. Why make an item that only works and makes the experience for new players terrible? It simply adds depth to gameplay having it in the game. If you try to do normal bangs or flashlights, grabs and normal saves , without background player, youre going to get slugged and never have a chance at a save because its that easy to outplay anything you try to do. And flashlight lockers were busted, which is why they got immunity. Locker bangs take way more practice and experience. If you argue otherwise, youve never consistently tried to locker bang and hit on killers trying to flick their ass off.
On the other side of things, I play killer too. I have never once gotten flashlight or bang saved outside of players using BGP or where I intentionally give the save for free because I know someone and am memeing around or purposely want to draw out the match for more chases. When you know the mechanics of how these items work, its genuinelh a skill diff and you wont get hit by BS as much as you think. Again, promote skill expression and added depth to teamplay/chases. Nerf the terribly designed perks that make bot players get free saves with one braincell like BGP. Bang is NOT the issue.
https://x.com/Hey_Blakee/status/1909795974664315014
https://streamable.com/2pbg1z
Well, thank you for that. That just tells me how AWESOME I AM as a killer main, because I apparently have been doing the impossible.
I'm with the survivors here.
Flashbangs don't need to be reworked just to give 4-6 more frames to locker flashbangs and Wesker grab flashbangs. It's something that barely anyone does, and it's like 0.001% of the flashbang saves.
The benefits of fixing the other 99.999% of the flashbangs saves, is way more important than that.
I'm so sick of survivor perks getting nerfed because killers refuse to learn the game. It's not hard at all to avoid bangs or flashlights. I have 3,000 hours in this game and I can count on one hand how many times survivors have saved against me. Why are flashbangs being nerfed because of a learning issue??
Because enough players complain, things get changed. Cause apparently learning is hard.
the thing is, the rest of the blinds are fine imo. Like the blind angle nerf is fine. But adjusting the mechanics of the perk without fixing the issues with the items is not cool - especially when you havw players reporting these issues. Both bugs that huet the item as well as the ones that help the item should be fixed. They have dedicated teams for these things.
bangs have been fixed you still can’t blind on walls but everything else lockers and dropping a bang at the killers feet blinds now just walls still block it now
Good, glad it's gone. It was annoying to play against.
naw, survivors arent allowed to have variety or fun via different playstyles that SLIGHTLY displeases the killer in any way or shape of form
i mean, look at distortion being gutted and aura reading getting buffed, essentially killing stealth to the ground for survivors.
i honestly would prepare myself to play the most meta stuff imaginable every match just to send a message that, no, nerfing variety perks like distortion and flashbang, does not really help the game. AT ALL.
Lmao at complaining about Distortion being nuked. That one single perk made every aura reading perk useless.
I don't quite buy that argument. I mean, even if we were to assume flashbangs are dead in the water (which I'm on the fence about for now), that doesn't kill the playstyle of going for saves, it just means you don't use flashbangs for it.
Same for Distortion. Even if that perk were gutted (which I am not on the fence about; it's still a very good perk), that doesn't kill stealth. You just play for stealth with different tools, or in a different way.
What it actually feels like is that the devs don't want either side to have access to unfair tools within those playstyles, which seems more reasonable to me.
There's a very large difference between nerfing and changing something unfair.
Flashbangs were not like this before their timing buff. The radius was glitched and unfair. There were situations one side could not avoid being blinded in, there were situations that same side could not avoid by normal counters to other blinds in. No other blinding tool worked this way - flashlights, fireworks, none of them worked this way. Only Flashbangs worked that way.
Because Flashbangs were bugged, or more appropriately, a model clipping error created a situation that made flashbangs bugged. It was exploited like one. Just like how the bug with Oni carrying at Blood Fury speed with Iron Grasp was a bug, and was patched. Just like the locker flashlight exploit glitch. Just like Xeno's tail being too quick on launch. All three were unfair to the other side, and all three had to be fixed. Flashbangs blinding when the Killer is trying to avoid them, sometimes in ways they could not even see or hear, definitely was unfair and unintended.
Fixing bugs that make the game unfair for one side or the other, in ways they cannot counter, is good. I don't want old Oni bug, old Xeno tail, or old flashlight locker glitch back, and no sane player who actually plays both sides of this game should want this back either.
I'm sorry your fun perk got nerfed. I felt pretty similar when M2 mains abused STBFL in an unfair way to the point STBFL got nerfed (my poor Myers… :( ). I felt equally upset when MFT got nerfed because it was too strong as a broken combo people were abusing with other perks for omega speed most Killers could not catch up with. Both needed changes though. You will find other fun perks. The perk is still there and can be used, you just need to readjust to how the angles work now.
This is exactly it, the Devs do not want the game to be unfair on either side. Slightly imbalanced by RNG sometimes, sure, but not completely uncounterable and unfair.
You never needed flashbangs to do saves like these. What about pallet saves, or flashlight saves, or fireworks, or using Breakout, or Sabo saves, or a billion and one other ways in the game to pull off cool saves without using an unfair broken exploit to do it?
I mean it's not like new distortion is bad either, I love the new variant as someone who likes to mix up my chases.
I used old Distortion a lot on my Nea build, she's my stealth Surv. I still like to be a stealthy Survivor more or less.
I still like new Distortion. I just had to get better at chase to appreciate it. Old Distortion did not let me learn chase, I was too busy hiding. Now, I know how to loop better because I was forced to break out of my comfort zone.
Old Distortion was a problem, it led to whole builds, Killer tools, and Killer powers being invalidated, one perk was invalidating up to 50+ different addons, perks, and Killer powers. That wasn't fair, obviously, and it led to really nasty situations where Killers ended up tunnelling anyone without it because they couldn't find the people with it, making tunnelling worse than it already is and has been. Plus people would hide with it to sell their team out doing nothing in hopes of hatch. That wasn't fair to anyone, Killer or Survivor!
So they changed it. Now, I am rewarded for taking chase with my preferred playstyle. It's a win win!
everytime someone says "distortion is still a good perk" never actually used the perk and is talking out of no experince.
its the euqevelant of me saying "skull merchant is good" after she has been nerfed to d-tier.
no offense. i played the perk, i almost never get value, i take chases and usually i get tunneled out or it doesnt trigger
even when i do get a chase and then they leave, i only got two stacks just for aura reading, so its not gonna be really enough against like the strong or spammy aura perks like nowhere to hide, bbq, darkness revealed, weave. and if they decide to do a full aura reading build then its basically worthless
i know you dont get scratchmarks when activated, but this is only useful in chase, meaning you either need to pair it up with something and then also time it outta nowhere
if you say "skill issue", like most usually do when they are called out on how bad distortion actually is,
then you arent really making a point on why its good and probably shouldnt talk about how good of a perk is, if you never used it or just think making a good chase is making the perk good. it doesnt.
point was, stuff gets overnerfed and people dont care, so why shouldnt people just result to the most broken stuff that most likely wont ever be nerfed like toolboxes and hyperfocus?
i dont mind if flashbang is nerfed, i quite frankly dont care since i dont use it at all.
but it just makes me question why people would want to continue using it when its probably not as effective as it used to be.
I run Distortion quite consistently when I play survivor, and while it is - as before - sometimes a dead perk slot if there's no aura reading, it's pretty solid otherwise.
Consistent enough aura blocking to delay your next chase, info on what the killer has equipped, and even some extra chase value on occasion to try and break chase. That's a damn good perk from my perspective.
That also doesn't really address my point, which is that one perk doesn't make or break a playstyle, usually. If Distortion were bad, you'd just swap to other stealth perks. If Flashbangs are bad, you'd just swap to other methods of getting saves.
Thank you for this ♥️. It always felt very unfair.
So…
Unrelated, but this would be the ideal time to reintroduce the unused add-ons for firecrackers.
Just saying.