Killers, please stop dodging.
A message to all killers. I never understood why people are afraid to fight any sort of survivors. Are you not a confident killer? Do you think you're bad? I don't get it. I understand killers have almost instantaneous wait times but survivors do not. I can't tell you how annoying it is to wait 10-15 minutes to find a game just to get dodged, sometimes 3 or 4 times in a row.
Stop being afraid of SWF groups, half the time i get dodged I'm only a group of 2 people. Sometimes people join up all at once, regardless of them being in a SWF together or not. Ontop of killers being afraid of specific survivors (???) I still dont understand that stigma. "Ope nope. I can't kill them, they have a claudette on the team. Time to dodge"
So TLDR killers, please stop dodging us. We understand you find games instantly but we do not.
-sincerely,
survivors and our ridiculous wait times.
Stop being afraid of SWF groups, half the time i get dodged I'm only a group of 2 people. Sometimes people join up all at once, regardless of them being in a SWF together or not. Ontop of killers being afraid of specific survivors (???) I still dont understand that stigma. "Ope nope. I can't kill them, they have a claudette on the team. Time to dodge"
So TLDR killers, please stop dodging us. We understand you find games instantly but we do not.
-sincerely,
survivors and our ridiculous wait times.
Comments
The former will kill the game, the latter has been suggested as a bp bonus but some killers don't want a bp buff only removal.
Oh Really? SWF is the most toxic people that you could ever run into. of course, Killers don't want to play against you guys until the developers fix the killers issues and give them more power it wouldn't be a nice game to play with. I really don't understand survivors with friends always have the following
1- decisive strike
2- borrow time.
3- Flash Light
5- Firecrackers
6- toolbox
7- leader perks
8- medkits
9- sprint bursts
10- iron well
and you blame killers why they dodge you? why would anyone want to play against toxic survivors?
SWF isn't fun to play against, so i try not to. The overwhelming majority of my bad play experiences these past few years playing DbD have been with SWF's. So until SWF is gone, i'll dodge any time i don't want to deal with their crap.
Before this post, I'd like to make clear that I DON'T dodge SWF groups unless I've ran into them before and they are a bully squad. I don't have an issue with 2 man SWF groups because they only get a slight advantage but this post is aimed more towards 3 or 4 man SWF teams.
The issues I have with SWF groups
Now before I continue, I'd like to say that not all SWF groups are toxic and I've played against some good people that just want to play with their friends for fun instead of bullying the killer. Below I'm going to make a few points with issues that killers run into when not dodging SWF groups.
SWF Makes some perks useless on killers
Yes you heard this correctly, communication can make perks on killers completely useless. An example of this is Knock Out, which can be good if it actually works but most of the time, survivors will say over a 3rd Party Program their location and then they can just be picked up, making the killer waste a perk slot and making the perk completely useless.
Another example are HEX totems and I say this because if one survivor in the group finds the totem then they can just give the location to their friends and it will be destroyed. I can't say how many times one survivor ran past my totem during a chase and then 20 seconds into the chase, my totem got destroyed because they are using voice chats to relay information to others which they wouldn't have known about otherwise.
My final example is probably one of the most hated perks in the game but Insidious is made completely useless against SWF groups. Yes Insidious is really annoying to go against however if the survivor, who is getting camped, is in a SWF group then all they have to do is relay information saying that the killer is in the basement or near the hook camping, don't rescue me and just do gens.
Game is extremely unfun
Most of the toxic survivors I run into are in a SWF group and I say most because solo survivors can be toxic too. Against SWF groups, generators get done so quickly because of the information they receive and how well organised their group can be. Here are some scenarios that gives SWF advantages:
"Don't rescue me because he's camping" - This will make all of the group gen rush and get them done quicker because if they wasn't in a group or were using comms then the survivors would have to get off the gen to go to the hook to check if the killer is there. Now you can argue that they will gen rush when they get back however it still buys the killer time.
"The killer is walking over to the gen near shack" - This information gives the survivors an early warning resulting in them getting away extremely fast making the killer unable to get them because by the time he is there, the survivors would have been far gone by then. This makes finding survivors extremely annoying when they know your exact location so they can just avoid you at all costs. Without comms, they wouldn't have known that the killer was coming until they were in my terror radius range.
"His totem is near a corner of the map" - I've explained this in my SWF Makes some perks useless on killers so I'm not going to go in depth but groups can just relay totem placement info resulting in it getting destroyed when solos would need to look around for it themselves.
There are obviously more scenarios but I'm not going to make the reply too long. One final issue I have with SWF groups are the organisation. You can assign a person to loop the killer, a person to heal and rescue survivors, and then two survivors to repair generators. If you're not in a SWF group then games don't have organisation and multiple people run in for hook saves, removing survivors from repairing generators however if it's an organised game then gens just get rushed because all of the survivors stay on gens knowing their friend is being saved.
Reading out killer perks
Another massive issue is if a member of your group dies, they can just read out all of the killer's perks and addons giving out a LOT of information which you shouldn't have. Reading out perks could make the killer's NOED useless because the survivor that died said "Cleanse totems because he has NOED" making the survivors look for totems to prevent it. If the survivor was solo then they wouldn't have known if the killer has NOED or not.
Revealing the killers
Another issue against a SWF group is that they can give out who the killer is before anybody else sees the killer. If the killer is The Shape then they group would know to be on a look out all because of one person spotting the killer in the group. Now you might argue that everyone will find out sooner or later anyway but while this is true, the players still got the advantage and information which they shouldn't have otherwise until they make a sighting on the killer without just being told who it is.
Conclusion
As you can see, I've listed only a few reasons to why killers dodge SWF groups. They get way too much information and they are just organised and can be a bully squads. SWF just breaks the game in SOME situations and because they get so much more of an advantage then solos or even just 2 man SWF groups, killers just dodge so they can have fun or even stand a chance against them if they are well organised. Although I don't dodge them, I can understand why killers do it and I've had experiences with it when I've played in a SWF team.
SWF is playing the game normally? I don't understand your point here.
I absolutely agree. You said it perfectly. My question is, surely the devs know this is a problem - but are they going to do anything about it? My fear is that answer is no.
Either removing SWF, creating two modes, or giving the killers some kind of buff would help these issues immensely. I doubt the first two will happen but maybe the third might.
i personally dodge swf because its harder than going against randoms and i want it to be the easiest i can get it to be
I've had more toxic solo lobbies than i've had wf lobbies and I've seen solo lobbies have those perks as well and what's even funnier is the following.
The usual perks layout certain killer mains always complain every swf group has is SC/DS/DH/AD although they alwaw swap out w/e perk is FOM.
Same and this sewf don't want to play the game normally is total nonsense since how are they supposed to
get their friends to play to learn the game?
It's like hey I just got 3 people to buy the game and this help support the community and so I'm going to play with them.
Apparently entitled killer mains that use the entitled easier win seem to think people that introduce others to the game should be forced to buy a brand new copy. Just so they can play with their friends now imagine if they were forced to do that on a $60.00 game.
The devs weren't aware of how much an impact voice would have on the game and you really can't buff killers to swef level without absolutely destroying solo.
Also lobby dodging doesn't make it an even match at all since it's mostly done due to items/clothing and not because it's actually a swf group. I've joined games where the lobby has slowly filled up and the moment someone equips something a killer doesn't like it's instant dodge.
If they can't see your profile to check your achievements they dodge, flashlight dodge, tool box dodge, medkit dodge. Then if you get the killer later they say swf was the reason they lost even when it was an obvious solo group.
Lastly most swf groups are potatoes and killers that either don't know how to take advantage of their makeup or refuse to adapt are to blame. Are they harder to face yes they can be but if you know how to handle them most are quite easy to destroy.
For the most part they're highly predictable down to when they'll go for the save, when they'll try and heal under the hook, where they're most likely to run etc.
Lemme reword it, then. I'd rather have each individual figure out what someone else has on their own. Otherwise it sounds like they are using a crutch when other people tell them.
I played F13 NONSTOP for about a year then I started playing DBD. It’s not the same game at all. The only thing they have in common are that they are asymmetrical survival horror and the rampant toxicity in the games.
They have different objectives, map sizes, communication, among other things. I see what you mean by them being similar but playing them both is a different story. F13 is a lot less skill based and more based on bullying the killer. Not saying DBD is really that skillful or that the killer can’t be bullied but F13 is just a more relaxed game.
Even if they did disable Party Chat there is such things as Skype or FaceTime. Unless they remove SWF (they won’t) they can always communicate somehow. I understand the pain of going against good SWF teams but I don’t take the game that seriously. You win some and you lose some, so be it. I’ve been destroyed by some SWF groups and sometimes I destroy the entire team.
Sorry for being off topic, just wanted to throw that out there.
Hiding perks once someone dies is totally a fair thing and spectating should come with a timed delay similar to what League has but not such a long timer. But say 10 second time delay when spectating so you can't just say turn left at that big rock in front of you.
Sounds great to me!
Now that you mention it, I hope spectating gets extended beyond who ever is left in the trial. I'd like to sit back, and watch some matches live. That aren't youtubers, or twitch streamers. The delay would be fine with me in that case, too.
I always like to sit back and watch and see if someone actually makes it out or if that sandbagging jerk gets nailed lol. I also get to see perhaps where the darn hatch was, where that pesky hex totem was hiding but also watch for mistakes and great plays.
On what platform? On PC, my killer queue times are about 2 minutes. For survivor it's almost always instant. East Coast USA.
And Killers dodge not because they're "scared", but because they want to have fun, and SWF are unfun more often than not.
He refers to survivors playing solo, which was the original intention.
I play on PS4, I had to start playing killer more because survivor wait time is ridiculous. I’ve had over 30 minutes of waiting for a game that gets dodged right as I join.
Any Killer will tell you that SWF make trials unfun more often than not. It's not a certainty, but if the majority of trials with SWF are unfun because said SWF are actively trying to be toxic, dodging ALL SWF is simply the natural result.
I play on PC, so I can literally just check their profiles. However, I do so to prepare, rather than to dodge.
I want to have fun with Dead By Daylight, so if I see a 4 man swf full claudete p3 with flashlight Im probably going to dodge if Im playing a low tier killer, just because its not even fair
Ok I'm calling bs on this since swf aren't actively trying to be toxic and you and everyone else using that excuse knows it to be false. Yes I know you're using it as an example but it's a flawed excuse to even be used in the 1st place.
The simple fact of the matter is those dodging lobbies assume whether right or wrong there's a swf in it and even if there is over 60% of the time it's only 2 people. So that gives you 2 solo's that should be easy prey especially given the average should be 2 kills.
If all you're going to do is dodge because you think there's a swf what are you going to do when it's 4 solo's that destroy you because you refuse to face 2 swf or get better?
I've had so many games where the killer after getting wrecked or only getting 1 person sac'd would say I should've dodged toxic swf. This despite the fact that the lobby would fill up over an extended period of time one by one.
But there's this dodgma that anytime a killer does bad it's because swf not because they might make mistakes, or the survivors played just a bit better. Let alone if it's 4 solos that know what they're doing the killer can't play badly and expect to 4k.
I get instant games as Survivor.
Never said they were scared? I can understand how it's annoying, especially when survivors group together to troll the killer by all having OP survivor items and such. It also means for a different strat with how you play and stuff. Not everyone is toxic, though, and not everyone's even good, really.
This pleases me.
I didn't get any, not a one, from the winter boxes.
I got a green one normally.
Even levelled the hell out of a few killers.
Kinda taking back my aversion to using Moris since I keep running into SWFs so often. I wouldn't mind having a backup plan incase they decide I'm not going to have any fun.
Then again, a mori will probably help ensure they get sweaty.
Until then, well. I don't mind increasing SWF wait times. I'm not terribly interested in gambling on if they're going to be a group of dicks, or not.
Yes, but even if I 4k such a SWF with ease, I still dont enjoy the game. And fun is what its all about, you cant play DBD competitively.....
Moris are quite expensive, considering how common SWF its impossible to have a mori ready for every SWF
Personally, I don't dodge because I know most SWF's aren't the 4-man Squadette DS death squads they're painted out to be. That being said, you can't expect killers to not dodge when you're abusing an extremely broken aspect of the game. Constant, map-wide knowledge should not be afforded to survivors and some killers feel cheated by this as rightfully mentioned above.
This is why I think they should just admit that having this mechanic (no communication) in the game is never going to work in a multiplayer game when you also add in the ability to play with a party.
You can't balance a game around survivors not being able to communicate, requiring perks and addons to give you this info, and then just chuck it all to the wind by allowing groups to play who are going to use 3rd party software you can't stop.
Even at rank 1, look at the difference between getting hooked when you have Kindred 3, and when you don't; you routinely end up with 2 survivors trying to rescue you, or possibly the whole team, because they don't know if anyone is coming to save you. With Kindred, unless they're being selfish BP dickheads, Kindred allows them to see someone is close, if the killer is camping, and allow one person to focus on the rescue (or none if you're being camped) and the gens can keep being worked on.
Or just be on Discord and coordinate who is rescuing you, or say, "just crank out gens, I'm being face camped".
I play killer as much as I play survivor and never dodge because I'm not a crybaby. No offence to anyone on this forum.
Also patch notes came through and dead survivors can't see Killers perks anymore so does that make everyone a little less salty?
Edit: this sounds way more condescending than I intended. Sorry yall.
Either Playstation killer to survivor ratios are drastically different than PC or somebody is blatantly lying. And I don't see why it would be the former.
But also this:
So clearly I'm not lying like you're implying lol.
Stop using >2 flashlights, keys, or toolboxes with swf and I might consider
I'll only dodge if I just played against those survivors. Win or lose I hate playing the same people over and over. If I could do it as survivor to avoid the same killer 3 times in a row I would.
SWF is not that bad. People keep saying "well using comms is cheating DUUURRRRR". Well on Xbox the party system is part of the platform. In fact you can just invite the other survivors to a party in the lobby, no external software required. I've gotten many invites from other survivors, which I almost always ignore because I've learned to not join random people's parties because 99% of the time they are squeekers or #########. First ones caught and then DC almost every time too.
But yea, SWF isn't really as bad as people say. I'm more scared of the 4 solo survivors at high ranks because these guys got there WITHOUT comms. That means they are way better than the players that always SWF. Plus SWF groups tend to be overly altruistic. I went to play some chill Freddy games last night, got a group of 3 that farmed each other right in front of me. I was basically tunneling and camping not even by choice, I would have been happy to just walk away from the hook but when you save right in my face right after I hook I'm going to punish that. They were cool about it though, said they were tired of tunnely/campy killers and decided to just farm each other. The irony.
@Vietfox a lot of the pink add ons suck anyway XD