Grim
Grim
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- Grim
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Dear god no. M1 sim is already boring as is
Either make maps smaller or secondary obj idc but holding m1 for 10-20 extra seconds is just zzz
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With premade, survivor
SoloQ, killer
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@hahahillbillygobroom true but it gives businesses actual reason to focus on the health of their game otherwise ppl will leave for their competitors
With monopolies it doesn't matter. You'll be back as there's nothing else offering the same kind of experience
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Deep wound chainsaw hopefully. Thank god this op killer getting the nerf he so rightfully deserves
Maybe then they'll finally gut bs strong Cannibal too
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@BigTimeGamer that's the joy of monopolies. Until dbd gets some real competition they have no actual incentive to prioritise qol
It's far more lucrative to scrape by and pump out cash grabs such as lisa garland
Real disappointing
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OoO and the 40 mile long hallway want to say hi
Also most the pallets suck lol
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@thesuicidefox for the last time
Yes cages aren't hooks but they aren't entirely different either so dont quote me if you dont even have any idea what I'm saying
I proved they were not entirely dissimilar as cages can use some hook effects regardless of how alike to hooks they are. I highly doubt the devs could forget to code smthn as important to ph's power as cage states so I can only surmise that this is intentional and the moris description is wrong. Ur right it doesnt take a rocket scientist so I really dont get why ur finding this so hard and quite frankly I'm done wasting my time hitting my head against a brick wall
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@Kellie for 1 his 1st time dialogue only mentions perks
2 they're not the same thing so comparing apples to oranges is disingenuous
And 3 technically speaking moris operate on hook states not hooks. Perks are the opposite
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@thesuicidefox U even agreed that a hook effect is smthn that occurs as a result of being hooked. Guess what?
Hook states get removed from being hooked. Hard to understand ik. But pls try.
They did not say that moris are not supposed to work this way. They said that cages aren't a hook. This does not mean that they are entirely different. No mention is made of offerings by the devs or otherwise. The rest is what you've chosen to infer
They can. That's why I'm not basing my conclusions on the fact that the mori works out of cage. Unlike how you're basing your argument on a description which contradicts a much newer and up to date 1
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You must be trolling rn. Weve been over all 3 of those points but all you seem to do is retype them and pretend they're right now
Ok...
1) they do. They remove hook states. Just. Like. Hooks. Thus hook effect
2) that's irrelevant. It's clear that whilst they are not hooks they're not entirely different and thus are still privy to some hook effects. E.g. look to 1. This is clearly an intentional feature
3) descriptions can be wrong. As @Dpooly pointed out, there's also a description that explicitly says cages are not influenced by perks, making no mention of offerings. This also explains exhaustion reset. And since the mori description is older and not written with ph's power in mind I'm willing to bet that the moris one is simply outdated
It's painful that you cant see how that very post proves you just repeat yourself and dont listen. A big waste of time
Edit: your 2nd paragraph was funny btw. Ye ig the devs just forgot to implement cage states ykno a feature thatd play a big part in his power LUL and now the cages are using hook states due to some luck from a bug
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@SquirrelKnight that'd be how they work yes. If cages no longer took a hook state and you swapped between then they'd have 2 for each
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@thesuicidefox and yet some hook effects do work
Unless the devs just forgot to implement cage states, this is intentional
Again with the description you're like a dog with a bone. Descriptions have been inaccurate. They have been changed. Back then there was no need for the distinction between hooks and hook states so ofc it'd say hook. Cages did not exist then. Fact. End of
You can repeat yourself 100 times more and get as worked up as you like but it doesn't suddenly make you right and it doesn't change fact
Some hook effects other than moris do work. Cages affect hook states. Moris work based on hook states. It's really that simple
Ofc you'd actually support cages getting their own independent states to change. If that was how it was then ironically their only real use would be to cage and tunnel as opposed to just hooking and actually getting some real map pressure
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Make his ranged harder to dodge and give him a cool down when cancelling his power
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@thesuicidefox my god ok. I've never disputed that a mori isn't a hook effect. I'll break it down for you
Are hook states removed as a result of being hooked? Yes
Does this make hook state removal a hook effect? Yes u just agreed on the def of a hook effect urself
Do cages also remove hook states? Obv
Therefore cages use some hook effects but not others
If being a hook effect is all it takes for the cages to negate them then cages also should not, by ur own logic, consume hook states
My original point is that the cages clearly dont negate all hook effects as they're not entirely separate from hooks so stop trying to say they are
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@Pizzaeater4ever all things considered I can see the validity of moris not working with cages due to small maps allowing ph to remove the distance tradeoff he should have
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U are a glorious human being. Winking clown pls
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@thesuicidefox no a hook effect is smthn that occurs as a result of being hooked. This isn't a debate
Edit: if the description is what made it a hook effect then I guess you dont think exhaustion reset is actually a hook effect since nowhere on descriptions like dead hard, sprint burst, berus toxin does it say that exhaustion resets on hook
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@ill_Boston_lli o man only 20m really? Ig on maps like coal tower yeah. That's actually messed up
I think I see where you're coming from lol
Edit: tbh with ya I dont think moris should be in the game to begin with. The amount of times I've been proxied into no bt mori is sad
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@thesuicidefox uh can you not read? Moris and losing hook states are both hook effects.
So if moris shouldn't work cos they're hook effects than cages shouldn't take hook states
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@thesuicidefox except consuming hook states is a hook effect lol same with moris. And saying it's irrelevant or putting it in big caps doesn't change this so nice try
It's not hard to start running when a tormented surv goes down. Now I play with friends (usually duo) and I'm normally out of the cage before ph makes it so I'll concede my personal experiences have made me bias but I usually have plenty of time to find a loop with basic map knowledge
Keep making assumptions all you want about me wanting to abuse it but I already find ph to be a joke bar when he fakes the power cos no cool down is bs tbh and I just dont have the problems with this people seem to like to complain about
@ill_Boston_lli I agree let's see. If it does turn out to be unintentional fair nough
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@ill_Boston_lli except doc and huntress dont take hook states when they do that. So nice "common sense" you seem to be so proud of. Real good strawman
It seems to me the prevailing logic is that moris shouldn't work cos cages are not hooks and moris are hook effects.
Ok so you shouldn't lose hook states too. I mean it's not a hook and losing a hook state is a result of being hooked hence an effect. Guess they need their own "cage states" now LUL see the problem here?
"But muh description"
Oh pls descriptions have been inaccurate in the past. Mm's addons are a good example of this. So until the devs confirm if this is intentional or not this is not a valid talking point
And balance? Give me a break. You're across the map. If ph gets there before your teammates then that's just sad nobody really bothered to come for you. You have the chase and then your teammates have a head start to get you. It's honestly baffling people consider this a problem
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@thesuicidefox im not assuming anything. just pointed out one way the description might change if mori out of cages were found to be intentional. the irony of this situation is that you just made an assumption there lmao
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@thesuicidefox no you have no real argument to support your point, crutching hard on a description. descriptions have been inaccurate in the past and have been updated accordingly to properly reflect how they behave.
as @NuclearBurrito alluded to, a "hook" could actually mean "hook state" but since cages did not exist back then, there was no need for the distinction to be made in the description
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@thesuicidefox consistency would also be that the mori's description be changed to accurately reflect how it works. it counters all hook perks, not offerings
and lmao at you cant defend from cages. it's incredibly easy to make it time consuming for ph to torment you and then if the surv's smart the time save is negligible and harmful more times than not so yeah really unfair bud. your defence is the chase
if the killer gets to you more times than your teammates do than that's on your bad team, not the cages.
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@NuclearBurrito no, they dont actually care about consistency it seems. they had an unhappy game against ph so now ph's power must change
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@thesuicidefox i'll clarify since apparently it's hard to understand. things as in evidence. e.g., what makes it unreliable in your eyes, etc. some offering description is not reliable. they change.
happy?
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@thesuicidefox my point is that you're basing your entire argument on an unreliable thing. this should be common sense.
and again you repeat the same old tired points as if saying it again makes it right somehow... i can see you have nothing to actually add to this conversation. w/e man ur right
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@thesuicidefox there u go proving my point again. descriptions have been known to be inconsistent. im not ignoring it merely acknowledging how they've been inaccurate in the past and can change. smthn you seem to be unable to grasp
anyways, i never said they were "basically the same thing" so dont go putting words in my mouth just so you can strawman. to be precise, i implied that the time saved by caging is not as impactful as let on and is actually harmful a lot of times
all the examples you provided are easily dealt with and situational anyway. and as you've failed to address caging is still almost pointless as in most situations, the surv actually saves more time than you gain as you surrender a lot of pressure in caging and are giving a free save. the only time it is decent is if you want to quick cage a slug smthn you'd be lucky to take advantage of multiple times especially against good teams
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@DudeDelicious ah so you're on about the couple of seconds from hook travel time? that's honestly nothing. besides, the time saved on the surv's part from nearly being able to instantly save across the map far outweighs the time saved from not having to carry the surv. not to mention, the map pressure you surrender in doing this
again, his built in mori is extremely situational as to whether it helped or not and will most of the time shave off a few seconds from hooking
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@DudeDelicious dont make me laugh. if you mean when he's got everyone in cages then that team is either bad or stupid allowing you to get to that point. balance decisions, however minor, shouldn't be based on bad survs. parroting your own logic, i can also end the game quicker if i bring a mori and basement 4 potatoes with insidious bubba, i suppose mori's shouldn't work off hooks too
@thesuicidefox the only other hook effects besides perks are? perks becoming usable again (exhaustion resetting) and o ye other perks becoming usable. my point
it's ironic you quote me on "all you're doing is ignoring everything else" and then you do exactly that again choosing to rely on something that changes often and is clearly not a reliable talking point. hell, this patch is even an example of descriptions getting changed lmao
u know i dont even know why im continuing to waste my time on this nonissue at this point. i feel like im just going in circles with you and if ph really wants to mori he'll just spend several extra seconds to hook instead so w/e. if the devs change this to make you and this echo chamber happy so be it. i'll just hook instead if i want to mori a blendi or something idk
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@thesuicidefox all you do is oversimplify. it's honestly exhausting
first off, that's just wrong. nowhere does it say on his power that it cancels out anything that says "hook" so idk where you pulled that out from and secondly, because mori's. are. not. perks. they're an exception because they should not be subject to the rule to begin with and until the devs confirm this otherwise, using perks as a reason why offerings should be cancelled too is a logical fallacy
all you're doing is ignoring everything else and just focusing on the hook part. just because two things share a similarity does not mean they are the same and should be compared. this is textbook false equivalence and ignoring this does not make it go away or your argument valid
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@thesuicidefox making this huge fuss over a description inconsistency cos of a bad game to try and get at ph's power is petty and vindictive
OBNOXIOUS IS QUITE SELF EXPLANATORY I THINK
now onto the only sentence you had of mild substance
his power cancels out perks not offerings. how many times do i have to explain this? to dumb it down for you, i'll use an internet example for you: you're comparing apples to oranges
it still takes a hook state hence why the mori should work and the mori's description should be changed instead. i believe how mori's work now to be intentional and until it's confirmed whether it's intentional or not, implying it's an exploit is both intellectually dishonest and desperate
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@thesuicidefox i am reading what you write, it's petty, vindictive and obnoxious
i think it absolutely should work on cages. the killer's hook perks are a fair trade for the surv's. that's kinda the whole point of the cages, it takes a hook state and denies hook perks. perks are not offerings so stop drawing false equivalencies
and relying on a description? cmon, they get changed all the time to more accurately reflect how they work and no amount of caps lock will change that
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@thesuicidefox you're just being pedantic. a simple change to the offering description and this big "issue" is solved.
it's mind blowing you seem to think it's this big deal hence why i assumed you were getting at something else as did others apparently
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He'd just take several extra seconds to hook you then. if anything you're safer if he decides to cage as your teammates can nearly insta save you and ph has to travel across the map. also killer hook perks dont work with the cage too. e.g., bbq
This isn't an issue
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@RockoRango returning to her base kit won't solve the issue her rework was supposed to. what we need is a solution which makes nurse fun for both sides.
the old nurse was boring for surv. this nurse is boring for both sides.
she needs some lovin but she'll probably end up getting the legion treatment. "reworked", might get a few meaningless tweaks and then quietly swept under the rug
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@coppersly the nurse's only weakness is simply the nurse messing up and anecdotal evidence isn't going to change my mind
you obviously don't loop her like a regular m1 but the problem is her counterplay is almost useless against a good nurse. Sitting at corners, being unpredictable, los break, it's all irrelevant when the nurse knows how to be a reactive blinker and not take unnecessary risks, allowing for outplays
blink to corners, know when to eat the shorter fatigue, when to follow scratches and not blink after them etc. that's all it takes and suddenly her counterplay is not doing much at all
personally, i hate what bhvr did to her. old nurse could still be beaten by an organised team which is the whole point of an asymmetrical game. the many coming together to beat the 1. but i get it cos dang if she wasn't boring in a chase and quite frankly the chase is all i care about when im on either side
fix her bugs and make her addons not useless but i think her power is fine as is
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To mori bait
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@coppersly it never took skill to evade a nurse. Just luck and a bad nurse. People dont seem to realise what little distance the surv actually gets on you.
After fatigue, you're left waiting for 1 extra blink. During this time you're still moving at 3.6. Every second the surv is only gaining 0.4m on you. That's nothing. And this is assuming they run in a literal straight line. How long do you think you're waiting for that 2nd blink?
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@OutcastEric because her power's a joke. Knowing I only got the hit because the surv lost the coin flip does not feel rewarding to me and it's boring for the other side too.
You run stridor to remove the only real counter play she has. It's not confusing and I have no problem pinpointing where the surv is. Good headphones see to that and that's why good spirits do run stridor.
I get why people defend her. After playing killers like Clown or Bubba the power trip is nice. But there's no real chase there and that's the only reason I play either side. Just a guessing game where one side has all the information they need and the other has next to nothing.
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Never. Flashlights are weak and easy to deal with
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Her blink recharge does nothing but simply add a second or two to chases for good nurses
She literally ignores everything survs have to extend chase. How anyone can consider her anything less than s will always baffle me
All you got is los break and hope she doesn't know to blink to corners
So no. No buffs needed just bug fixes
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Dont blame you. There's nothing more boring than being "mindgamed" by spirit
That being said there's still 3 other teammates who're now having even less fun
But no it's not bannable
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@Sairek I've never been a fan of the Rift either. It's shady and it's manipulative.
But here's the thing: I don't buy it. 90% of the time I'm just missing out on sub par recolors of skins I already have or charms no one actually cares about.
So is it unethical? Sure, I can get behind that. But is the grind a problem? Nah. It's doable and not worth trying for anyway.
My advice is to simply stop caring and feel sorry for the poor saps who decide to opt for such a blatant waste of time and money.
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A lot of people seem to have completely missed the entire point OP is actually trying to make. It's not the fact that the situation could have been avoided, but rather OP is complaining that the situation existed to begin with.
DS, as it stands, is an anti-momentum perk despite being reworked to be specifically "anti-tunnel." It has utility outside its perceived intended purpose and this is what a lot of killers take issue with.
In OP's case: Yes, there were 5 gens still up and yes, the other 3 survivors were either hooked or slugged, but this is irrelevant. Jane clearly wasn't being tunnelled, yet she was still awarded a free escape, and it was this free escape that let them BT unhook and pick up the 2 slugs (as @Speshul_Kitten explained). This scenario can occur in any situation: Whether it be 5 gens or none, 2 slugs or no slugs.
Personally, I would have slugged Jane, but this is still a clear example of the killer being punished for downing survivors quickly - which is just silly. Much like NOED, which punishes survivors for doing gens fast.
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Whilst I agree that optimisation wouldn't be a bad thing, comparing BHVR to ID Software or Bethesda is grossly unfair.
Not to mention that BHVR has no real incentive to prioritise consumerism QoL: They have a monopoly on this genre of game and at the end of the day, they're a business. So long as the game runs, who cares? There's nowhere else really to go for this kind of experience. You'll just be back.
DbD needs competition for things to really change.
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P3 is w/e. It's the bright cosmetics you gotta look out for.
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@Cardgrey gonna have to agree with you on that one. If I get DS'd despite going out of my way to not tunnel then you better hope I'm not around after you get unhooked again.
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@Godot the problem with the whole "you'll be back in x time" logic is that it only works so long as DbD has no real competition. And luckily for them, others games like this have flunked. That's the issue with monopolies, there's no real incentive to prioritise consumerism QoL. Where are they gonna go? It's either their way or the highway.
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Shadowborn as basekit would be fine. People who say otherwise are simply overreacting, especially considering it was only reduced to mask camera clipping issues.
However Shadowborn and MnA's FoV effects would need adjusting.