made for this is not overpowered
Stop doomsdaying. This perk is at best decent on its own.
MFT boosts your speed to 4.12m/s as opposed to 4m/s. This causes the killer speed advantage to drop to 0.28m/s and 0.48m/s respectively.
Things to go over:
- MFT and on hit distance
- MFT and 4.4 killers
- MFT in comparison to other exhaustion perks
- some actual balance issues with the perk
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
-=-=- MFT and On-hit Burst -=-=-
The on hit burst lasts for 1.8s, with a speed of 6.6m/s. The distance gained without MFT will be represented by d. The distance gained with MFT will be represented by m.
1.8(6.6)= 11.8m of distance, d.
1.8(6.72)= 12.096m of distance, m.
Now, include the distance gained during the rest of the hit cooldown.
2.7 - 1.8 = 0.9s of 4m/s distance gaining
0.9(4)= 3.6m
0.9(4.12)= 3.708m
3.6+11.8= 15.4m
3.708+12.096=15.804m
So now we just divide those variables by killer speed advantage respectively.
15.4/0.4 = 38.5s
15.4/0.6 = 25.666s
15.804/0.28 = 56.4s
15.604/0.48 = 32.925s
For 110% killers: a roughly 18s increase
for 115% killers: a roughly 8s increase.
110% killers will be largely unaffected, as their powers typically dont care how far the survivor is from you. 115% Are barely affected at all, a simple 8s at the cost of it being your only ex perk.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
-=-=- MFT and 110% killers -=-=-
I've seen many say that this perk will ruin 4.4 killers... how? yes, their speed advantage is reduced significantly by MFT. But speed advantage has never been their strong suit. the near 20s difference with MFT against 110% is only intimidating on paper. Once you realize its not even a full meter difference in distance, and that a hag trap or hatchet doesnt care if you are 0.4 extra meters away, its much less scary.
- Huntress hatchets move at 40m/s at full charge, and only need a small window of LOS to get an injury. The only possible difference would be melee huntress having fewer opportunities. But if that ends up happening, you can easily just not melee hatchet them and go for range instead.
- Hag traps arent gonna tp any slower bc of MFT. Shes still gonna get the hit.
- Slinger: see huntress. a fully charged hatchest and a harpoon have the same speed.
- Spirit is spirit.
- Trickster might have actual issues... however thats a problem with his own design and balance rather than MFT. just because MFT disproportionately affects a c-tier killer doesnt mean MFT is the problem.
If anything we should be fearing for non ranged or mobile killers if we're gonna be afraid. But realistically I can only see a very small selection of killers actually caring this perk exists in most scenarios. The ones I can think of are sadako, myers, legion, maybe pig, freddy, and trickster. All of those killers are some of the very worst in the game, having no chase pressure or mobility to end chases quickly with. So obviously a perk that makes the weakness worse will hurt them more. But thats much more an issue with those killers in particular rather than the perk itself. If sadako TVs werent terrible, they might make a good chase tool. If legion could get consistent downs during frenzy he'd be decent. Only the killers who already do almost nothing in a chase will be hurt by MFT. I cant see any situation that a stronger killer, like wesker or demopupper would care.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-=-=- Is MFT better than its alternatives? -=-=-
In my opinion, no. Its competition are SB, lithe, overcome and maybe BL.
Theres gonna be two parts to this, math and direct comparison.
math time :p
Sprint burst moves you at 6m/s for 3s. the distance gained from one SB is 4.2m and 4.8m for 115s an 110s.
Made for this moves you at 4.12m/s forever as long as you are injured.
For MFT to buy you the same time, you would need to be running for 30 and 35s in chase while injured. Even with MFT, people really dont survive that long while injured. Not to mention you are locking yourself out of perks that get more value earlier and possibly multiple times in chase for something with more limitation for less power.
SB: Top tier perk. Provides a safety net, being able to secure you a loop from anywhere as long as its off cooldown. Can be recharged in chase depending on your skill level. Can be 99d in or out of chase, to then be used for the aforementioned safety net while stil being able to run. Also functions as amazing anti tunnel, making massive distance between you and the killer off hook every time.
Benefits of SB are safety, anti tunnel, chase extension. These three things typically determine if a perk is good, for example DH was godly because it gave massive chase extension and mistake erasure with infinite uses. Now its bad because it only gets 2 uses a game, if you dont land it its gone, and it doesnt have synergy with the more readily avaliable and consistent exhaustion perks.
Lithe: A perma 99d sprint burst, at the cost of only activating on vaults.. Ease-of-use and massive value for minimal loss (unlike having to walk mid chase for sb) make lithe a good alternative to SB for newer and experienced players alike.
Overcome: Extending the on hit burst to 3.8s is MASSIVE. The distance gain by this is insane, getting you another 6m of distance just from that 0.9s of hit cooldown you normally get 3m from. Having overcome practically guarantees that you will reach a pallet no matter what. And if you choose to be risky and try to maximize distance before stopping at a loop, some killers might just give up because you've gotten so much distance. Its different from lithe and SB, the easiest to use while providing less overall value. While a very skilled player will get more from lithe and SB, overcome fills its own niche of tile chaining and distance making in dbd.
BL: All the benefits that lithe has over SB, except much more situational. Its not really worth using unless you bring map offering for it, since most maps just have like 3 drop spots and 20 vaults so lithe is just better.
MFT: Similar to overcome where you need to get hit before it does anything. Provides no level of safety, anti tunnel, or guaranteed tile chaining. Pure, raw chase extension. While it could be used with lithe, you would have to just not fast vault for the whole chase until you are injured and have gotten MFT value. Theoretically you can have other ex perks with it, but they will most likely just prevent MFT from seeing any value. It does extend the on hit bursts distance by a decent enough amount, and against non chase killers can be pretty good. However any killer with mobility, range, or just overall good chase potential will be mostly unaffected by the perk.
The difference between MFT and its counterparts is that every single killer in the game has to deal with lithe, SB and overcome in some way. While most killers, especially the most played ones like wesker, nurse, blight and huntress, remain completely unaffected by the perk.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
-=-=- MFT actual balance problems -=-=-
While on its own MFT is mostly outshined by better perks, certain combinations can make this a monster. Constant haste boosts, while typically niche can be combined for insane value. You could easily combine MFT with B:DT and turn any 115 killer into a 110. Think of any killer you've heard suggested their speed be reduced, except now you can actually do it in game with minimal effort.
- Place boon
- get injured
- loop in boon
- profit
Remember when I said that for the most part the majority of killers can just ignore MFT? well not anymore. a 5% is INSANE. Think of demopupper; one of the best designed and balanced killers in the game. What if he was 110%? C-tier trash. If he cant even catch up to put people in shred's range, if one single pallet drop resets the chase then hes useless outside of his mobility. Huntress, hag and all them are 110 because their powers are crazy good at downing people without range being much of an issue. Huntress can down you as long as she can see you, and hag can tp to you from nearly anywhere on the map. But the power to turn killers who actually have to deal with distance and range into 110% is too much.
turning TRICKSTER into 105% would just be too much for the poor man. Unlike the others range actually does matter to him, chaining knives is much harder from farther away. Granted he could just kick the boon, but its unfair to him that he has to lose distance kicking boons bc hes forced to be tier one myers.
I think that MFT should not stack with B:DT. Like at least power of two and blood pact have CRAZY restrictions, cooldowns and such. But this combo doesnt require any teamwork or anything, you just do it and it works hella well. I'm worried the combo might become meta in some swf groups or smth idk. B:DT needs buffs but this is not it 😭
haste stacking itself isnt an issue right now because all methods of permanent haste have major restrictions. And the one that doesnt, b:dt, is terrible and provides nearly no speed bonus. MFT is fine in a vacuum, but having two non majorly restrictive permahaste perks is bound to cause issues with stacking. MFT + hope is fine because hope does nothing all game and like adrenaline needs you to survive for value. MFT + power of two/blood pact is less fine but since those two perks are so bad their taking up a slot hat could be used by an actual good perk.
thanks for reading I got really sick of people saying it was op without any mathematical/in game evidence.
Comments
If you throw in buzzwords like "SWF" or "abuse" it does not really make it better.
I can guarantee you that 99% of Survivors do not bother to use such Perk Combinations. Most players just want to play the game. Some fancy YT-videos dont change that.
you could always just use power of two+blood pact for a permanent 12% boost as long as you are near. toss in BDT and the killer only moves 1% faster. why are we just now caring about this?
True, as I said in a previous comment under another post, MFT will be balanced (and not very good) if haste doesn't stack.
Already seeing scenarios where the perk is basically giving extra health states. Seems like it's DHv2 where the bad players struggle to get the value but better players can. The better the players are the small the window for hits become and the more impactful ms increases are. If the perk stays meta then I'll just not play killer or run the top 3 since they don't care about the ms boost.
yeah that makes sense. Idk if it would be bad though, just generally mid. If haste didnt stack I wonder if it would actually be crazy broken if it were 4% lol.
3% haste =/= tanking a whole health state
I never saw power of two, probably because it has an eternal cooldown. I always thought that haste shouldn't stack. And please, what is BDT? I don't know all perks names in English (I'm Italian)
BDT is boon: dark theory. And honestly nobody uses it so I wouldnt blame a native english speaker for not knowing 💀
I don't think, probably survs care more about making gens than actually be good in chase.
Maybe I'm wrong, but we will see in a month or two if MFT + another perk will become a combo. And lets see if devs will nerf it (if there is a combo) like they did with overchage + COB (since it's something that benefits survivors I don't really know if they will nerf it, maybe it should stay meta for 6 years like DH before a nerf)
I had to look for the effect because I didn't know it either lol. It's actually quite useless. Not that it can have about 20% haste, but having 2% haste is useless.
I still don't understand why the devs went against the heal stack, but the haste stack is fine, which I sincerely believe is more problematic to stack haste than heal
Was old DH for distance not basically a health state? You are making it somewhere you shouldn't. Sounds like another health state to me.
"The better the players are the small the window for hits become and the more impactful ms increases are."
Guy tried to calculate distances xD - it's not about distance - it's about playstyle.
Survivor can be very confident on the loops and Killer can not swing as early as normal.
With this Perks Survivor can reach Pallet or Window before a hit.
You said Killers 110% will not be affected? Hhahahhahahahha... Huntress on long loop and she can not throw a hatchet... Hag can not hit immediately after Teleport, because of this little speed from Survivor and more...
I don't see how you think Hope and MFT stacking is ok just bc Hope is an end-game perk. If someone is running this combo and you playing a non-blight or nurse killer you might as well just let them go and if everyone is running it then you most likely never going to kill anyone. I don't know about you but a lot of my 2 to 3k games come down to endgame a lot of times. If any of those times ppl were running Hope and MFT then I would mostly never get kills in the end game. You basically be forced to run No Way Out just to give yourself the extra time to chase someone down and down them. If this combo leads to free escapes (which it will) then it would be no better than the old DS or the PTB version of OtR when it was buffed/reworked. Hope by itself was already annoying as hell to deal with as a killer but now we have to worry about MFT on top of it. I just think haste perks shouldn't stack at all or have a cap.
This perk gives you less distance over let's say SB or Lithe, and people are complaining just for the sake of it.
And they say they want meta to change, huh
Then the max speed should be capped or Hope be reverted to 2 minutes again.
Well said only person I see affected by this is trickster. I forgot that huntress/hag also has a add on that makes em 4.6 as well so if anything they really should make trickster be 115ms. Also let killers be ignorant that they do not have add ons and perks that give ms anyways, as if noed/devour/play with your food/game afoot/mr robot perk /blood lust aint a thing.
Those what if scenarios require a tremendous amount of coordination and luck to pull off, and even then only works for about long enough for bloodlust level 2 to kick in. It's fun but entirely impractical when it comes to actually escaping.
I completely agree. MFT by itself is a fine perk imo and shouldn't be nerfed. The only thing I say is maybe the perk really doesn't need the whole endurance thing on top of the 3% haste. It only becomes a problem when stacked with other perks and the thing is in a game like dbd the speed of a character means is a whole lot! When you start messing with haste and stuff you could easily end up with something that is so OP that it can shut down the other side completely. As I said MFT is fine it just shouldn't stack with other haste perks or haste itself needs some kinda cap so survivors don't end up being as fast as a killer for long periods of time.
eh, call up a friend and have em bring FTP.
Hows it not about distance? everything in dbd is about distance. Distance=time, time=gens. And like I said in the post, all of the good killers have ways outside of m1 to down people. The perk is only remotely overpowered against weak killers, like sadako level weak killers. Only killers that literally having no mobility or chase pressure will be affected. And if thats the case then its more of a killer balance issue than an issue w/ mft.
And no, that 3% is not gonna affect 110%. Any hit a huntress would have gotten without she will still land, with a 0.12m margin of error. That small extra distance will mean practically nothing, except on the tightest of loops. Also... a hag... will absolutely be able to insta hit... you arent slower than the survivor when you tp. It TPs you facing towards the survivor, you are faster than them, and they are within lunge range. You just made that up- realistically only trickster will care out of the 110s. all the others dont care for distance and just down you anywhere. And funnily enough, tricksters a c-tier killer. so buff trickster.
Yeah, any pallet or window that has a 3% difference between them getting hit or not. Its never gonna be that choked, they'll either land it or they dont. SB better.
Isn't this already what every survivors asks tho? Like im sure 99% of people that regulary play survivor would agree to literally nuke those killers since good players can actually do something with them.
Survivor can greed a Pallet more with this perk - it means this perk will not buy a just distance, with this perk Survivor are able to play all loops much better.
Let's give for example 1.2% Haste Perk for the Killer for every injured Survivor? It's just a 0.x meters of distance - it's not OP
Having a hard time gauging how powerful the perk actually is as it seems to result in a lot of rage quits when I use it for some reason...
<_<
It will most likely be nerfed in the near future once the required number of chapters or w/e are sold.
It is OP. You do a long chase and you commit thinking it's just 3%. Then Endurance presents itself. It brings back old DH matches.
It feels like you just proved yourself wrong
This argument has numerous flaws.
8 seconds for a 4.6 killer to catch up is a huge deal because this is just a straight line. This doesn't account for them making it to a pallet and dropping it, then running again. Or them making it to a window. Or looping you in loops they can hug tighter than you and now a little bit faster.
For 4.4 Ranged Killers, despite your statement, it's a huge deal. Yes, their projectiles are leagues faster than survivors.
Huntress can't just pray you're in the open; she will have to chase you in tiles as well. With that 3% speed, those small windows she has where she can land a hatchet after a mind game get narrower or outright removed. Do remember, she has to wind up her hatchets too for a minimum of 1.5 seconds (3 if she wants it fully charged). That's to say nothing of some loops where her only option is to brute force the pallet drop and get it out of the way.
Deathslinger has a capped range limit of 18m. However, his projectile is also very small. That means, long ranged shots are easy to miss, so you will need to catch up. It's not quite as bad as Huntress given his much shorter windup, but again, he lacks her range and snowball potential compounding the fact that outside of his 1v1, he has very little going for him. This perk, when used by competent survivors, can outright cripple him.
Trickster... yeah... where do you start with him?
Yes, it hardly inconveniences Nurse or Blight or even Spirit. However, that just makes it worse, in my opinion. It's like Mettle of Man, back when Billy, Huntress, and Nurse were the holy trinity of killers. That perk crippled Wraith but literally did nothing to those 3 since it required basic attacks to work (Nurse's attacks were bugged and didn't give MoM stacks, most likely due to it being a Sub-Basic Attack). It's a perk that disproportionately affects killers that already struggle while being a minor inconvenience to those that already dominate. That, to me, is a problem perk that should be adjusted.
Perk name should've been Subtle Cheater: Haste
Ok and then what happens when one of your random teammates get hooked? Now you have to waste a huge amount of time as both of you go for the save, or give up your speed boosts to leave one on a gen. Or if the killer goes to your gen, now no one is on gens and you better hope the last teammate goes for the unhook. It's still a meme build that will rarely be worth the effort.
I think it would be fine if it was treated as a more traditional exhaustion perk than it is, because right now you can definitely still run it with something like balanced or lithe until you become exhausted. It should just work on a time limit, where it is active for like 30 or 45 seconds then you become exhausted.
You can’t be a ‘both sides’ player. How many chapters have dropped with killers receiving 1-3 solid perks and survivors receiving… well, trash or subpar perks? Like, four in the last year, right?
I really really don't want to bring this to a killer vs survivor stuff.
This will lead every one unfocused the post.
But still,i will answer you to clear your misunderstanding ,killer are already received 2 chapter of trash perks,and even before that killer is still getting maximum 1usable perk per chapter,so what you said about,in the other hands, survivor actually got lots of useful perk even have more than 3 perks per chapter, some of them might not being seems too often in game,but that's not because it's bad, it's because survivor has too many choices.
I hope you can calm down and actually see these perk in wiki.
And about i could not be a both sides player part.
I actually play more survivor than killer now,if you really want to see the proof, you can click my ID and find the discussion i made before which called "why people like to say solo is hell" or something like that,i have put some my game play as a reference of the post,which i think can at least prove that i have playing survivor.
At last,i wish we can focus on the post itself, like what we did before,if you really think that MFT isn't op,try to prove it with math or some examples, not just finger pointing other and said you want to nerf it because you are killer main.
cause range? as a trickster main i see no issue. maybe for huntress and deathslinger cause of there longer pull up times?