Have the developers ever actually stated how they want killers to play the game?
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So, reading the PTB notes and I see the change to Deja Vu:
- We have noticed growing concerns surrounding excessively long matches caused by 3-genning (Killer defending a cluster of three generators). We are working on a long term solution for a future update to limit how effective this strategy can be. However, we recognize that Survivors need more options at their disposal right now to combat 3-genning. With this in mind, some adjustments have been made to Déjà Vu: The perk will now reveal the auras of 3 generators which are in close proximity to one another indefinitely (previously for 30/45/60 seconds at the start of the trial and everytime a generator was completed) and grant a 4%/5%/6% repair speed bonus on the revealed generators (previously 3%/4%/5%).
So 3 genning is now bad? Then why do maps like suffocation pit actually exist? Why did the developers release the knight and then the skull merchant and now another killer with seemingly strong 3 Gen potential. Is this just due to complaining from survivors? Because the developers have made decisions for months (years) which suggest they’re fine with the game being played one way, only for enough moaning to cause them to try and counteract the game design they themselves implemented.
I honestly don’t understand anymore how the developers want killers to play the game. Is it just to “have fun”? Enjoy chases and don’t care about macro strategy or winning? Don’t use slowdown perks as they’re all mostly pretty trash?
I do agree that 3 genning can be tedious, but the solution is not removing that ability without changing other things like map design.
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The devs are addressing camping and 3 gen stalemates. Which suggests to me that they're trying to encourage map pressure and chases as opposed to just standing in one spot all game. I suppose that's how they want killers to play? If you like staying in one spot then maybe play survivor. You can just sit on a gen.
Except they do care. They really, really do. It blows my mind how one can play this game for years, even a few months consistently and say this. Everyone who plays DBD knows camping, tunneling, and 3-genning to a lesser extent have been controversial HOT topics, and both sides are fully aware that they are unhealthy and unfun.
Thankfully for the majority, they will not have to worry as much about the worse aspects of camping anymore after this new system comes in. Perhaps we will even see some people returning. As for the toxic killers that leave because of it? That’s fine.
That isn’t in any way related to the argument I am making here. Obviously baby rage is whatever. My point is that playing to win is not ego-driven or toxic. It’s a pvp game
It is related. I gave you a real life example of how a Killer player’s ego affected the outcome of a match. He played how he wanted, he was playing to win. He was using a toxic playstyle too.
And then raged when it didn’t work. Therefore, just slapping “play how you want” does not make for a healthier game experience. It is good to show them where they can improve, not encourage lazy thinking.
So, I'll take an example that has happened to me.
Two Survivors glitch into a spot where they aren't able to be hit. The other two die. Using your logic, they are just trying to win, despite the slim odds. They should be allowed to stay there and hold the game until the server closes, because to come down would be throwing the match and intentionally losing.
"The Devs have said they intend to make it less viable"
As of RIGHT NOW, that is their plan. You can literally read it in this thread.
Not the same. The survivors can’t win the match by doing that, whereas the killer can win the match by holding a 3 gen.
Note I didn't say they were fun, just valid. I don't even think necessarily they are unhealthy, but I wish they weren't as viable in the game as they are now. I think most (keyword most, there are outliers!) people understand that these are just valid things that can and do happen in the match, find them unfun but just hit next. Keep in mind, people here/twitter/reddit/steam forums/wherever are just a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase.
What I'm sort of more or less trying to say from my post though is I feel like posts like that are often over-exaggerated and people are probably not thinking about that much, and just click next. I think you should constructively criticize tactics you find unfun like those things, on either side, and post them, say, on this forums, but the post I replied to was not that, and is completely reactionary and is just as bad/ridiculous as reactionary posts of the survivors he are trying to mock.
"No one truly cares how you play!"
They say, knowing the Survivors care and the devs caved and are forcing Killers to play like NPCs to make Survivors happy:
I fully expect something to become basekit to counter slugging, too. You know, since Survivors are being told through developer actions they get whatever they want if they yell loudly and long enough.
Oh yeah, and there's the guy claiming Killer regression perks should not stack, because them being nerfed was not enough. They need to be 100% useless.
And here's the thread where someone was saying there should be a perk to 'punish' Killres to hit Survivors on a hook: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433908
The Killer doesn't win by forcing the game server to close. That's, at best, a stalemate.
Do people who DDoS other players win because they force them to quit? Didn't think so.
They are valid in specific scenarios. At endgame, I'm not bothered by those tactics. I get a Killer trying to secure kills if they can. However...
If you are camping/tunneling at 3-5 gens, it is wholly unnecessary. You still have a bunch of time left to apply map pressure, make wise decisions concerning which generators to place as a patrolling priority over others. The only reason they are doing this is because they are either trolling or raging, which are both toxic.
funny survivors want chases but after chasing one survivors 3 gens are done and by time you chase/down/hook the 2nd survivor all gens are done after this no more chases.
so does survivor want chases or gen sim?
because after this buff to Déjà Vu all gens be done by time you get your first hook.
Now you’re comparing a tactic do straight up hacking. Makes sense….
pretty much how survivors like waiting in lobby for hours when all killers quit or those like me just play survivor but if the wait time to long I wouldn't bother.
Deja Vu has not and will never be meta, it is still a situational information perk. If a Killer is 3-genning and somebody is running Deja Vu? Great. You still have to do those gens. The survivors will still have to strategize and coordinate as a team, which is extremely hard with solo queue teammates. They are lowering the effectiveness of this unfun tactic, not removing it.
Regression nerfed, so the devs cared about Survivors whining that they could not 4-man-escape all the time.
This is missing context, of course. And not nerfed "that they could not 4-man-escape all the time.". I would really take this point when people try to say it more seriously if they weren't so over-exaggerated and hyperbolic with that. Pop/ruin being nerfed originally was to create a new meta, which became the gen kick meta eventually, and that was nerfed to try to shake up the meta again. Which, also even is lacking the context that survivors meta got changed too.
Personally, I'd argue the gen kick meta was the unhealthiest meta this game has ever had. It was unfun on both sides, and to be honest, good riddance. I don't even think eruption's nerf was even that bad and the aura reading is STRONG still on certain killers.
Tunneling not allowed, so BT became basekit, and Survivors started abusing it to bodyblock. Now they cry that BT did not fix tunneling, because they weaponized it.
If tunneling "wasn't allowed", why is it still able to happen with BT basekit? That was not the point of bt basekit, nor the main benefit and you know it. And the DS nerf specifically was a detriment to anti-tunneling in general and a large deterrent on tunneling back in the day.
Camping is soon not allowed, which will force Killers to 12 hook
Except it still is allowed, you're just going to do it at your own risk. Just like bodyblocking with bt, you are risking being tunneled if you do that. Plus, we don't even know the finer details on how fast this bar will fill up based on distance.
Survivors are getting a new one to replenish their purple toolbox charges after they use BNPs!
They can do that now with built to last, plus I highly doubt this perk goes to live as is. Let's see how this pans out next month before we jump to conclusions since there have been perk changes from ptb to live.
I fully expect something to become basekit to counter slugging, too.
I highly doubt it, at least in the form we had on the ptb last year that tested it.
Oh yeah, and there's the guy claiming Killer regression perks should not stack, because them being nerfed was not enough. They need to be 100% useless.
And here's the thread where someone was saying there should be a perk to 'punish' Killres to hit Survivors on a hook: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3433908
I feel like these are fringe opinions and not the norm. I mean, all the replies in that post are people saying no.
My point is all of these things are still allowed. If they weren't they'd be made against game rules and completely removed. Whether or not you like how survivors deal with the tactics in game, or "cry" as you put it, that they are unfun, is really up to you.
yea all I'm facing are solo why every 6 matches I get 1k or 0k and get 4k after those 6 matches back to the try hard solo survivors/
again if survivors like chases so much why you get gens done under 6 mins,6 mins or even 12 min if it good game not enough time chase every survivor get 12 hooks before all gens are done.
so survivors wanting chases is bull they just want an easier game more so then they already have.
I play play both side and yes survivor is the more easy kick back role even in solo which is the only way I play.
yes as survivor some time I wont make it out but survivor are not meant to make it out every match.
Defending the 3-gene is purely according to the rules of the game, and any adjustment that denies this is a denial of the game rules.
There is nothing but a contradiction in what development management is doing, such as the travel time between generators and the fact that the new killer is overly specialized in generator defense.
It's easy to guess that the development management that releases a series of killers suitable for camping while saying that they will introduce camping countermeasures does not have a big idea.
This change is fine if they buff the less mobile Killers. Making maps smaller will still lead to 3 gens.
Is there even a significant amount of matches been held hostage via 3 gen by the Killer in the latest patch when regression perks have been severely nerfed? I find that a bit hard to believe.
If only a few people are pulling it off, then it seems more like a case of bad matchmaking than an issue that is affecting the playerbase as a whole.
It's quite literally the exact same principle.
Does the Killer win if the game server closes?
Yea, the win goes to the killer. If you can’t tell the difference between someone literally hacking your internet and a game mechanic, idk what to say.
If stalemate is not ok because it wastes survivor's time, then how come it's ok for survivors to play permanent hide-and-seek game on some maps? How this problem will be addressed?
So if we take what was said in this thread at face value about the Devs seeing the issue as killers deliberately going into games with the intention of holding a 3 Gen for an hour (ludicrously extreme example from them but whatever)….
Does anyone actually have any ideas on how the devs can accomplish their goal of making 3 Gen strategy less viable without actually nerfing it entirely? Because I’m struggling to think of anything.
So killers that don´t tunnel or camp, but try to slow the match down with whats left, now have an ego issue?
Then why do we have the Skull Merchant?
A killer whos only power is to 3 gen.
What do you mean?3genning is bad for the game and its a good thing they're trying to fix it, they released those killers but if they fix 3 genning those killers wont be a problem anymore.
So the 3 gen strategy is always bad? What if survivors inadvertently create a 3 gen scenario?
Whataboutism.
However, it's not okay and I hope they address it.
Tsulan, you and I both know that's not what I'm talking about.
Playing strategically because you, for example, got a bad map is totally fine. It's even smart. Holding a 3-gen until the server closes (or for an excessive amount of time) simply because you can is not okay nor is it good for the overall health of the game.
Actually they said several times that SWF was always intended, they just didn't have the resources to implement both SWF and KYF before the official launch, so they left it to community vote. The community voted for KYF so that's what was implemented on launch, with SWF appearing a few patches after.
Fr these players would have a meltdown seeing old infinites, double pallets, pallet vacuum, the old meta survivor build, it's insane
Inb4:
"No no, there's plenty of infinites and every map has too many pallets that constantly validate me and steal my hits and Survivors have their OP perks!!!!!!!"
Yeahhhhh, we are glad that those things are gone.
Because some people want to see the world burn.
Yes, we both know, that the "hostage" situation is also caused by both sides, that don´t want to lose. A killer can hold the game just as much as the survivor. Its not one sided.
Maybe i´m alone in this, but if i´d face a Skull Merchant who 3 gens from the beginning, i won´t stay in the match forever and just take the loss by not running away. Its as simple at that. Just pointing fingers at the killer while forgetting about the survivors is wrong.
I remember a streamer who was "held hostage" with her SWF by a Doctor. Match took 50 minutes, they ended up completing all gens and then refused to open the gates in a sort of "pay back" for another 10 minutes. They also reported the killer, when it was just as much their fault as it was the killers. (this was before the killer could open the gate for the EGC)
With so many forced adjustments to the ways of how I am supposed to play killer, I am just losing interest.
When the solution to a hostage situation is to literally throw the game and hope the Killer decides to hook you; you have a serious design issue.
Sir, you forgot to wear your make up 🤡
Like seriously don't you feel ashamed of being so obsessed with bhvr being survivor sided you think this is what they actually want
*When the solution to a hostage situation is to literally throw the game and hope the other side gives up.
I agree. But BHVR kinda maneuvered the game into this direction for a long time. Lets see how that upcoming change will affect the game in the future.
Tbh, i think that the Skull Merchant is a terrible killer, that should have never been in the game and that gen regression perks should have never been nuked. Game pace has been increasing in the last year and to me its no surprise that killers try to slow down the match by either camping/tunneling someone out or by 3 genning. Camping and tunneling is being adressed as of now. When 3 genning is also gone i don´t really know how killers are supposed to play anymore. Maybe by slugging. Which then leads inevitable to basekit Unbreakable.
I don´t really look forward to this. Doesn´t sound fun at all.
Hopefully this means that they do something to stop 3 gens from being done in the first 2 min of the match then
Why don't you guys just put in a twenty minute time limit?
What would that change about a killer going into a match with the sole purpose to hold 3 gens until the match reaches the timer?
It would just make it a shorter period of time, not address the problem!
I have faced many killers that have faced the three gen right away. In the old days it was Trapper, Hag, or Doctor who primarily chose that strategy.
In modern DBD it's most skull merchants and some knights. I actually don't mind the three gen strategy as I usually get a bunch of BP and am able to PIP. But I can definitely see why people dislike it.
You can still work to fix the three gen problem in the meantime, but still no game of DBD needs to last more than 20 minutes. F13 had the right idea with the 20 minute time limit.
Also providing a 20 minute time limit forces killers to try to kill rather than holding a three gen.
Ok, I was likely mistaken about that and Mendela effected myself, my bad on that one. The point still stands that the devs have said things and backtracked due to poor testing, feed back etc.
You're literally not reading what I'm saying and are making your argument into something completely different than what it was. Unreal. You literally claimed that what people say doesn't matter, the devs have decided it's happening and told someone their opinion and voice on it doesn't matter. I'm telling you that isn't true. It doesn't matter what their plan is right now, that has nothing to do with what I said and the fact that you were wrong.
Yeah. The hide and do nothing strategy is also terrible and should be fixed. However, I'd be surprised if that was more common in matches than the current three gen strategy that mostly skull merchants are applying.
Pretty sure after the time limit is up survivors are all sacrificed like in endgame... So it would be all the easier to make 3gens work as a strat to kill.
I might be wrong, though.
????
You literally load into a handful of maps and win if you have Corrupt Intervention, you're good at the game, and feel like winning. I win games when I load into Suffo Pit, see a 4 gen on one side, and never cross the map. No amount of doing gens in the correct order fixes that. Same with Dead Dawg, Azarovs, Sanctum of Wrath, Groaning Storehouse, Family Residence, Coal Tower, Wreckers Yard (hook basement and win), Father Campbell's, even Ormond and RPD if we're really feeling campy.
no they should come down because using an exploit to hold the game hostage is a bannable offense.