"Devs aren't surv side"
I want to hear someone who prove me that I'm wrong. I tried to defend this devs in every ######### way possible, first trying to say that aren't surv/killer side but it's only a skill issue, then I said that devs are not x side but noob side, but now it's clear like water that devs only care about survs.
Now, thanks to eruption nerfs, we will see 0 veriety of killers, every M1 will be dead at high mmr and, if someone didn't tunnel before this, now tunnelig and camping will be in every match, increasing hard tunnel and making the game less healty.
Eruption was healthy for the game because is the only actual counter to prove thyself because manage to block survivors on working together. At the same time required skill to be used because you must down someone really fast to use eruption properly.
It's funny to see that devs touch survivor perks after years (DH remained unhealty for the game for 5+ years and now is even more strong than before and doesn't require skill to be used because, as I said in a previous comment under another post, DH require lvl 1 of skill to gain 100 of advantage) and killer perks are not nerfed or reworked in healthy ways, are literally nuked in couple of months. Now only nurse will use eruption, because of the aura reading that will be probably decreased from 10 seconds to 5.
Devs doesn't understand simple things:
1) It's an 1vs4, if you touch something on one side you need to touch something with the same soul (gen perks: you nerf one gen regression and nerf a gen progression) on the other side: eruption nerf would be fine if they nuked also prove thyself, but it isn't healty because prove thyself is still here, and will be stronger than before.
2) They don't ask themselves "Why killer tunnel? Why killer use this perk?" they only see a community full of surv mains complaining about one thing and instantly destroy it, without asking themselves "Why does killer need eruption?" and the answer is easy: because gens fly. Eruption was used in like every build because blocked survs from working together, slowing down the genrush.
Devs, now that you nuked pop, ruin and eruption, why don't you nuke DH and prove thyself? Make DH a second chance with a malus, like "You use dh and you have incapacitation until you're 100% healed" something like this (It's an example, I said the first malus in my head). Make Prove thyself a skill based perk and not a "gg ez no counter gen devoured in half time", the perk is called "Prove thyself" not "Degree in mecahnical engineering". Why I like hyperfocus and I don't complain when someone use it against me? Because require skill to be used, I don't use hyperfocus because I don't get every skill check with great skill check, I care only about don't miss a skill check.
Maybe a nice rework for prove thyself would be "After X seconds of chase straight, you gain 10% boost in repairing gen for X seconds. If you get hit before times up, the timer reset" like you do 100 seconds of chase straight? Ok, now you gain a boost in gens for like 20 seconds, BUT if you get hit before the timer touch 100 seconds, you don't gain the boost. Obviously there must be some other specification, for example if the kiler loose you and doesn't find you in like 20 seconds, the timer stop and reset (for example). This will be a nice rework on prove thyself, and for good survivors this will be an improvement because "Oh, I can keep the killer in chase and get rewarded for that. Cool". Don't nitpick with the numbers I said, I just said my idea on how I would rework prove in an healty way for the game.
I hope devs really listen this time, because eruption's nerf isn't healty for the game and would be healty only if prove is reworked.
Comments
...Was this meant for someone else? I don't see how that connects to what I'm saying at all.
Nope, meant for you. If you think Dead Hard is fine then you are out of your mind. Sorry, no two ways about it and Eruption wasn't that strong and certainly not as strong as Dead Hard
The real problem is that they don't nerf the right things. If they nerf prove thyself and everything that makes surv's objective way more faster than killer objective, so both objective can go at the same speed without needing tunnel/camp/genrush. Because killers hard tunnel to make their objective as fast as surv's objective. Eruption nerf is good in a balanced game, but this game isn't balanced so you know. I know very well eruption is annoying, but it's more annoying to be genrushed as #########.
Wait, but how's that a skill issue? Surely if I were having skill issues I'd think the perk was stronger than it is, not weaker?
I also didn't say here that Dead Hard is fine, I said it's objectively weaker than prior to 6.1.0, because it is. I do think that DH is fine, with one exception, but that isn't actually what I said here.
Saying that Eruption wasn't that strong is a pretty incoherent take, you're definitely in a minority there.
Tell me you play in low MMR without telling me you play in low MMR. At top MMR you find like 99% of strong swf, rarely you find soloq.
You think that Dead Hard is fine and Eruption isnt. That means you are either underestimating how strong Dead Hard is or overestimating how strong Eruption is. Both those scenarios point at skill issues.
But at top 5% MMR the killrates are even higher than on all mmr.
Or do you think that the game should be balanced around those who playing 12+ hours a day, dont work, on their life to play dbd?
Its like 1% of playerbase, if you buff killers even more the game will shutdown, because survivor is unplayable, in fact I will switch to play killer only, so much more relaxing, because SoloQ already autolose.
Not... really? Surely if I think the thing on "my side" (killer in this case) is too strong but the thing on the opponent's side is almost balanced, that implies I get too much value from one and see much less value from the other?
What it implies is that you disagree with me, which doesn't mean there's any skill issues going on at all. Frankly it's kind of insanely arrogant to think that someone who disagrees with you just isn't as good at the game as you, even setting aside how it doesn't actually make logical sense here.
I don't believe they favor any side. They just seem to lack the ability to make small nerfs to popular perks. Self-Care was very popular but pretty weak so they obliterated it.
Eruption was over nerfed I agree it should have been gen entity locked and kept the regression it had and that would have been fine
Prove thyself could use a rework but It should be a smaller nerf not something overly nerfed to being unused like it was during the first nerf it got where it was worthless like maybe between 10 and 12% instead of 15 that it is currently
I disagree with you because the picture you are painting has very little to do with what actually happens in matches.
Killer is unplayable, surv is really chill. I'm at top mmr both surv and killer, surv is really chill, killer is stressful as #########. In fact killer is so overpowered that lots of killer mains are becoming surv mains. Yes switch playing killer but don't play only nurse, play every killer at top MMR and tell me how relaxing is. You will regret soloq, trust me
Casually they nuke only killer perks uh? Because survs have medikit, that are really strong, prove thyself to devour gen, coh that can help healing very fast, dh, otr and other things. Killer saw every of their meta perks nuked in couple of months one by one, Devs took 5+ years only to fix dh, transforming it in an even more broken perk, and people still cry saying that dh should be reverted. If they nuke prove thyself I retire everything, because prove really unbalance the game
It's not so much that they're one sided but more of the fact they dont understand their Own game and cause/effect.
They will see stats and info they pull but not draw conclusions from them. Even when the community is vocal it still never sinks in. Huge maps are spoken about alot yet are always added...
This eruption change is no different, they seen a perk be meta and complained about (imo the incapacitated effect was just boring, I still won against it often) but they did the usual jerk reaction and kill the perk.
They just dont understand what they're doing
Well I wont play m1 killers, so bad, relics of the past but yeah sure I also wont play Nurse.
I need to experience how true the complaints are, I think killer still lot better than SoloQ survivor, when you have 0 control because of matchmaking isn't fun that teammates throwing games. At least with killer is all on me.
Game is swf sided, not solo queue sided
No, 10 percent is too much. If they want to keep it like this, 5% max because Devs should understand that a 15% surv side isn't the same as a 15% killer side. For example, pain resonance remove 15% from a gen? 15% from a gen are like 2 seconds, and you don't even know where the gen is. 15% with prove thyself is an higher value because it can cumulate and then you devour gens too fast.
As I said, they should completely rework the perk, making it skill based. As I said in the main post, is called prove thyself not degree in mechanical engineering and in a game where Devs want skill based match making it doesn't make sense that a perk that work without any skill requirements and give you this advantage exist.
In my opinion, how I would rework the perk is good because you deserve to use it. In every matches I always keep the killer in chase, sometimes also for the time required to make 2 or 3 gens, so you know I will use this perk in all my build because it is like "Oh ok, I kept the killer for a long time, now I can focus on gens and repair even faster for some time".
Sorry for my English, I'm Italian and I'm writing this fast because I'm going to work now😅
I agree, probably because they doesn't see how broken can be swf
That 70% is in the whole MMR, not only in high MMR or low MMR. In low MMR is really high, because survs doesn't even know how to run, in high MMR kill rate is lower because high MMR is dominated by swf and, without hard tunneling, killer have hard life.
IIRC, kill rates have consistently been higher in high MMR than in low MMR.
Latest statistics, from October, indicated the average kill rate over all MMRs was 59.1% (Pretty high), whereas the average kill rate in the top 5% MMR was 61.3%.
So no, low MMR is not pushing the kill rates up. High MMR is.
But kill rates doesn't mean anything, it would be a problem if kill rate is like 90%. In a match there are 4 survs, so obviously kill rate will be higher than escape rate (in every match at least one surv die, so you know), but Devs doesn't count suicide, rage quit and things like this, they only see "Oh this month's died 7728293939393 survs", they don't see "Oh ok, this month's died 73839292939393 survs, but half of this are suicide on first hook and a 25% is from ragequit" for example. If this are numbers, then, are still wrong numbers. For the next kill rate I would like to see every %, % of suicide and % of ragequit, so we will see if actually kill rate is this high and, if it will go higher after the next patch, is because killer will hard tunnel more and play only strong killers, so they maybe have a chance against good swf.
Okay, first of all, address the gear shift. Your initial argument against kill rates was that 'low MMR is responsible'. Now that that's been kicked out the window, you're changing tactics. Not very proper.
Secondly, you mention ragequits: The devs have specified that matches in which any party DCs are immediately discounted for the purpose of stat tracking. These averages are built ONLY on matches where all players played to the end.
Thirdly, you mention hook suicides, but how do you think that's going to affect top 5% MMR? Because if survivors are wont to hook-suicide with any level of frequency high enough to have an impact on these stats, how are they still in top 5% MMR? Surely intentionally ruining your own games would see your MMR decline?
so we will see if actually kill rate is this high and, if it will go higher after the next patch, is because killer will hard tunnel more and play only strong killers, so they maybe have a chance against good swf.
So how are you going to argue that the devs are survivor sided when the kill rate is at 61% at top MMR and you predict that these changes are going to push those rates further upwards? Hard tunnelling and strong killers aren't things that pop into existence because Eruption is getting nerfed, those are already in the game. If they are capable of pushing kill rates -up- from 61%, then they are blatantly overpowered, and for some reason are not getting addressed.
How does that make the devs survivor-sided?
You claim to be at the top by saying that the most efficient strategy for survivors is grouping up on a gen with 2 or even 3 people? I'm so sorry but this is wrong. To be super efficient with survivor, all survivors have to split up.
You can say that about dead hard too, tho.
"Dead hard is too common. I can't recall a match where a survivor wasn't using it for a long time now. It basically became an extra chance to all the survivors and a constant annoyance to killers. It isn't always an issue to play against but there are too many matches where survivors are benefiting too much from it. It is especially a problem at a pallet where you have to swing but they use it, getting almost no progress on hooks. Dead hard is a bit too much in its current state."
The difference between dead hard and eruption is survivors have to be perfect in their timing to get any benefit out of it. With eruption a killer merely needs to hold down W long enough to get 2 hits on a survivor which is something that is very common in the game.
If I had a nickel for everytime you boast about being "high or top mmr" id be rich.
I keep seeing people saying PT "only" saves 7 seconds on a gen. You people do realize 7 seconds is a lot in killer time right? Maybe not in survivor time as they have 4 people running around doing objectives. 7 seconds extra in chase can sometimes cost a killer a game. Time is quadrupled in importance for a killer as opposed to survivor as you have you and only you to win.
But it's not the killer's time, it's the survivors' time. Those seven seconds are just that, seven seconds.
Take Discordance, it's way better at countering prove.
I love when survivors run prove, nothing like stopping 2 survivors from working on gens by approaching a single gen.
You easilly win back any time they could have saved if you have even a little bit of pressure
I think you are right about not talking to people of your level but not in the way you think
and even in that case you can still be hitted by that perk without tunneling (happened to me yesterday when i was using legion). At this point i'm just tired of every 2nd chance perks that survivors have... At this point i would gladly erase from the game all the 2nd chances available for both sides.
Finally someone understand this. I got tired talking with all surv mains that are on this forum, I will talk only to people who understand how work the game at top
I tried discordance but it didn't do much, because ok you chase one surv but the other/others come back to the gen and finish it. But it's an interesting perk, so maybe I will try some build with it
Because the game is only of survs right? Seven seconds for survs are nothing, for killer are like gold seven seconds.
I agree, every second chance for survs must be reworked/nuked, same as killer (the only annoying second chance that I've seen are noed and blood warden, correct me if I miss some perks. No way out is ok because reward you for playing well during the match).
I will rework noed making it Basekit, like a punishment for survs who played bad all the game, like you don't deserve to live if you reached end game being carried. Blood warden must be reworked, like you must save the survivor on the hook to escape and doesn't work if the killer camp. So the killer can't camp with noed to use it and at the same time reward survs for trying to save. I will do a post after studying every perk in the game on how I will rework every of them.
If I had a nickel for every bad player in the game who thinks that has right to talk about how balance the game, I will have more money than Elon Musk.
I know bro, I know. This is one of the worst thing about this devs, they don't play their game in top ranks and the only time I've seen them playing was in private matches... Sad
Yes, against bad survs eruption is strong, but do you know how much can take for a killer to down someone? It isn't easy, especially when you find survs who are decent in chase. So killer must be very good in chase to use eruption, survs doesn't need that skill to use DH, and the prize for using DH isn't the same as eruption, is an higher price than eruption prize.
they remove ragequit from the stats. when someone ragequits, they treat it like that person never joined the game in the first place; if 100 people queue up, 50 are sacrificed, 40 escape and 10 rage quit, they treat it as if 90 people had played, 50 were sacrificed and 40 escaped.
Eruption is strong against any survivor. Even if you had equipped aura perks that could track the injured survivor being chased and the killer at the same time for every second of the chase, you'd still would'nt be sure when they will be downed. So what is the best counter to eruption? To not work on gens affected by the perk. And imagine call of brine on top of that too. And you think that the most annoying second chance perks are noed and blood warden??? KEKW.
No, the most annoying second chance perks are the gen slow down ones. I was playing a game with a friend. We were working on the last gen, in a 3-gen situation, both injured and with Adrenaline. Killer downs a survivor. We reached 99% of the gen and then gen explodes because of eruption. Up until that point NOT EVEN ONCE had we been hit by eruption and so we had discarded that he had it. So dont go out telling people that every second for killer matters, but for survivor doesn't, especially the less survivors remain in the trial and also in 3-gen situations, which can be easily forced depending on gen rng. A killer can play terribly and can still be carried by gen slow down perks. But no he has to down a survivor for eruption to work.. You can be the best survivor in the game, but due to a deadzone or few resources you can still be downed fast.
Yeah lets remove survivor second chance perks, so a killer can easily camp and tunnel. No off-the record, no ds (already nerfed), no bt, no reassurance,etc.. These perks are the only chance for a survivor to do someting in an unwinnable situation. Like it is a survivor's mistake that they are getting camped or tunneled.. And the other thing. You are saying that survivors who made it end game deserve to get noed base kit??? They reached the end game. They did gens and looped you. They beat you. Or are you implying that you camped another survivor possibly with a 1-shot killer and they decided to keep doing gens, because you were not efficient as killer. Or maybe they decided to trade 1 for 1 and you think that their best option at the moment was bad.LUL.
The "killer's time being four times as valuable as the survivor's" thing is only accurate at the very start of the match, when everyone is alive and only one survivor is being pressured. Any survivor that is out of the action - so dead/slugged/hooked - lessens that time importance because it's one less survivor who can be working on generators.
At the same time, the very start of the match is when Prove Thyself is a hindrance more than a help. Those generators they're saving seven seconds on would, overall, be done faster if they split up, even with PT in the picture. The perk is not useless, it's fairly nice for early gens (albeit a risk) and definitely useful for the final gen, but it's not the reason your gens are flying. Stacked toolboxes would be a far more reasonable target, or Hyperfocus builds.
Because there's four survivors and one killer. So one second for the killer is four for the survivors.
But those 7 seconds shaved off with PT are 7 -survivor- seconds, not 7 -killer- seconds.
😅
10 characters
10% is to little not to much....
10% of 89= 8.99 (meaning 8 or 9 charges removed)
But
10% of 25= 2.5 (meaning 2.5 charges removed)
15% is good enough
15% of 89= 13.485 (meaning ~13.5 charges were removed)
Then
15% of 25= 3.75 (meaning 3 or 4 charges were removed)
22.5% (20% from Pop and 2.5% from base Gen regression apon kicking)
22.5% of 89= 20 (meaning 20 charges were removed)
Then
22.5% of 25= 5.625 (meaning 5 or 6 charges were removed)
Killers time is 4X shorter then Survivors
Base Gen regression is 1/4th progression (meaning .25 charges per second) VS. base Gen progression being 1.0-2.2 charges per second