5 Easy Things To Remove That Would Make The Game 100% Better.
- Hook grabs. These have always been silly, aren't much fun for anyone and far too often turn unhooks into a 'you rolled a 1 and now it's a 4k' frustration chain.
- Kobes. 99% of the time it's just suicide, and an easy way to bail on a match without getting a penalty. 1% of the time, it's really, really frustrating for the killer. Rework perks and addons as needed.
- Useless addons and offerings. I swear, far too much of my BP goes into stuff that is either really bad, or straight up handicapping myself.
- No Mither. Just...get rid of it and give David something that isn't essentially a 'we lose' button. I swear, this adept is a team killer.
- Knockout. This perk has almost no practical use and is only really utilized to grief solo queue players. Replace it with something better, and healthier.
Comments
I don't think we really want to start removing things that people don't deserve.
Yeah, that's kind of what I mean. You kind of have a point with the Nurse example (though that is again just 'i don't like this killer' with one extra step), but giving up and ruining the match for everyone else just because you think it's too insurmountable to win is a bad thing, and you should have to eat a DC penalty and lose your BP if you want to go next.
It is not too much of a burden to expect people to play matches out, even at this game's worst. This is also only about first hook, remember, giving up on a second hook would still be a thing if you're in a particularly irritating match that's stretching out for eternity- you'd just have to, y'know, actually play until you got to second hook.
If that is too much of a burden, you shouldn't be queuing up to begin with.
I never asked for any of those things and in those survivors have ways to counter, being perks or outplaying the killer with skill
There is no skill in avoiding hook grabs, its just a dumb mini game at best, and there is no perk to make you imune to them or anything
And what stops me from going to make a sandwich?
It's all theoretical anyway, I've stopped even trying with Survivor, I don't play it at all. It's completely impossible to do anything and I'm not good enough to solo carry my team. I win maybe once every five games and it's still miserable.
Half the Killers in the game are annoying or boring. Oh boy, can't wait for my fifth Legion match. Can't wait for Alc Ring Blight with four slowdowns against me and a Meg with 15 hours. You get the picture. That's why I don't play it, because every match is a nightmare and makes me wish I had never booted up the game.
Nothing, but you risk being reported because that's against the rules.
As for everything else, it genuinely sounds like you just don't like this game, and that's not a good enough reason to keep in a thing that almost exclusively allows people to ruin matches for their teammates by giving up.
Oh no, I despise Survivor. I always have. It's some of the worst gameplay and design I've ever seen. Unfortunately, I know that I'm bad at it and I can't let it go. I doubt I'll get any better at it, my eyesight (much like the rest of me) continues to get worse.
Also, who is gonna report me for going AFK when I'm slugged?
When DBD Survivor works, it's fun. Unfortunately, that's entirely dependent on playing SWF and the Killer being nice. Every single one of my friends have quit at this point, it's just me left. I can't convince any of them to play anymore, they won't touch the game. I have fun by winning, so you can understand why I despise being forced to kneecap myself and be matched with people who don't know half the Killers in the game yet.
Who said anything about slugged, this is about being unhooked when you don't want to be?
And that's great, but the game shouldn't be balanced around the fact that you and your friends don't like it very much.
So far as I can tell, it's not just me and my friends, unfortunately
The hook grab standoff is so annoying, removing it from healthy survivors would at least force killers to accept the trade so I'll agree to that.
Kobes, I hate rage quits but I hate sandbaggers more and I fear taking away hook suicides would result in teammates who want out will just result in more griefing. Still something must be done about it.
I agree, so many add ons and offerings are just worthless clutter for the sake of filling up our blood webs with things to take. Either rework some of them to be worthwhile or remove them.
The main use out of knockout will be made useless once the HUD update comes since they made a new status icon for being carried. So yeah it should be reworked to do something else as it's main use of being effective against solos will be weaker. No mither, honestly you could delete this perk and nobody would notice.
"when Red Maps are already not used at all"
Ummm... Say what now? Red maps??
...The root issue here is that a lot of gamers will just bail any match that might be difficult. It's why so, so many team based PvP games adopt systems like Leaverbuster.
It’s incredible that "play out a game you queued up for" somehow manages to be a hot take in this community. How absurdly pathetic.
I think most people are fine with difficulty.
It's that difficulty in this game means (usually) getting stomped with little opportunity to recover.
Eh. You'd think that - but...well, I'm actually still having fun doing my 'thing' so going to exhaust my flans and then post the data.
Playing mean versus playing hard? Still around a 30% quitter rate.
Bringing flans versus bringing a mori? Exact same.
This isn't so much 'need a reason' as 'need an excuse'.
And what exactly does that prove? You don't know the context behind those DC's.
Yes, it could be that these players are immature and DC on their first down because...who knows.
It could just as easily be that they've been found first and tunneled out in 5 previous game and are leaving to save their sanity.
There's a pretty big difference between those two scenarios. One is a child throwing a tantrum, the other is someone who wants to have a good time and play out a match being pushed too far. You still shouldn't DC, but one is a little more sympathetic than the other.
How many games are you aiming for? I might have to start up an experiment myself.
BNPs.
They're not fun to use and they're a horrendous balance swing. I don't think they'd be lamented if they were removed.
Law of averages so...probably the former? Because, again - slightly over 30% of games have a quitter. And 30% of players are not going on 'I got found first and tunneled multiple games in a row' because that's not how reality works.
Including LNY, it's going to be 500. 300 on killer, 200 on survivor.
idk DBD is the only asymm game I’ve seen with this issue. I’ve often wondered why people who queue as survivor are so inclined (more so it seems after patch 6.1) to quit a match in some way. What’s really interesting is that these players often play other asymm games and do not behave this way. It’s got me thinking there may be something about the survivor role experience in this game that encourages game quits.
Most other similar games have pretty strict penalties for quitters, or the exact same problem. Because there are a lot of people who, upon realizing 'this might be a rough game' will immediately pull the cable or quit.
1. Keep it, making unhooking completely safe removes alot of player interaction as well as creating new "feel bad" scenarios where defense is primarily the right choice. No risk for the unhooker almost 100% incentives farming plays and Tunneling.
2. OK, perfectly fine with suicide leaving.
3. Agreed, way to many useless ones for meme builds.
4. I don't mind the perk if the survivor is actually good enough to account for the handicap.
5. No thanks, leave my favorite perk alone. This works wonderfully as killer for pressure and distracting survivors away from gens (although mostly useless vs swf). It also has the passive benefit of encouraging altruism; something most solo survivors need to learn early.
Yeah, I don't really get this bizarre unceasing optimism in people that quitting will stop if only the state of the game was better, or more balanced.
No. No, man. No it won't. A good reason is not a prerequisite for DCing. Much better balanced games have punishments for quitting because they don't share this misplaced faith.
Yeah gee I wonder why a penalty-free loophole to ragequit gets abused by immature players?
No if there two going for the unhook and you hit one the one you hit runs away and the one you didn't hit unhooks in your face then the new unhooked survivor body blocks the person who just unhooked them, so there no trade that what you call a hook bomb or unhook bomb it worst when 3 going for the unhook when all gens are done
that why grab need to stay.
That scenario...I actually love to see it as killer.
I'll injure the one chap, injure the second chap then down them after - and that's 3 people who aren't slamming out gens.
Honestly, remove grabs, rework some maps.
I mean all you need is for two people to come at the hook at the same time and most killers can do nothing about it. One unhooks, takes a hit, second one bodyblocks, all three run. GG.
That is not "fair for both sides".
I really don't mind it. It gives me a lot of options and some breathing room - there are many ways this can go wrong for the survivors, and generally it'll mean two people injured and one more chased and downed.
on some killers it a pain and be a little buff for SWF if grabs got removed.
Well, I mind a lot. I hate the idea that healthy = invincible 99% of the time unless you have an instadown. "I can do anything I want because I have another health state" is a bad game environment in my opinion.
Hook grabs are fine. It’s one of the few remaining tactics against altruistic survivors.
Survivors trying to bait out the m1 before securing the unhook is not much different from Killer having to bait out DeadHard.
Some people zhink fair or 50:50 in this game means 50% chance to escape. When in reality it means "killer win chance is the same as a survivor's cjance"
For the community approved way pf thinking 3+ kills is a killer win, a survivors having a "mere" 38.2% chance to escape is actually fair.
More often than not this community is too biased (generally survivor sided) to objectively be fair, see 99'ing gate vs 4k slug on example topic of "is delaying disadvangeous gamestate bad?" (hatch open and egc respectively)
5. Don't see how it's anything more than a minor annoyance as swf, but against solos it can work great to reduce the number of active gen repair. Provided the killer does something other than stand over the slug and there's teamwork; i find its about the same time grounded as on the hook with the bonus of additional chase opportunities.
Yes, this was me typing while about to go to bed. The second SWF was an error.
Yes it is, unless you have perks or a killer power to help you.
If you could protect the hooks that well even against two survivors, camping would be even more insane. It would be a free kill and remove interaction from the game.
The job of the killer is to kill the survivors and for that they need pressure and do it in the most effective and efficient way possible.
Removing hook grabs just makes the situations more consistent and fair for both sides.
If its one survivor, the killer gets a trade easy
If its two survivors, unless they ######### up you get 3 survivors injured and 3 people that are not on gens
No random chance because the ping was high and the survivor got grabbed even tho he did let go of the unhook or just having both stare at each other.
Again, if killer want to have more tools for this situations, there are perks to help them. STBL makes unhooking impossible with only 1 survivor, Deadlock delays gen rushing so they have to save their teammate in time, Forced penance makes protection hits dangerous as now the survivors become vulnerable, NOED, NWO, Terminus all make saves in end game much more risky and help the killer when they already lost all pressure, Starstruck delays the rescue for survivors with the exposed status effect.
Killers have tools in their powers and perks to help them in unhooks, they don't need a hook grab that doesn't add any amount of skill or interesting gameplay. I prefer that being removed and the devs finally added some kinda reward for killers for unique hooks, that is engaging gameplay.
Also survivors don't have perks to save them for hook grabs, you are at the mercy of ping, patience or a teammate to help you.
In conclusion: Remove hook grabs, reward multiple hooks
I don't want killers to get nerfed, i want the gameplay to be enjoyable for both. Hook grabs are not enjoyable for either side. I just feel like i cheated when i grab someone trying to unhook, its just not fair
Then you get 3 people not on gens all injured. Want better than that bring perks or killers that are even better.
A mechanic that is solely luck based with ping and patience involved is not good. A survivor faking an unhook is not a show of skill, is a survivor not being dumb.
Remove hook grabs and give killers reward for unique hooks.
The hook grabbing gameplay is cheap, doesn't show any skill from either side, promotes the killer to camp for the chance that they might get lucky and get a grab for free, and survivors have literally nothing they can do without either playing the dumb unhook/ fake unhook staring game or teaming up with another survivor to guarantee the save.
Make it consistent:
1 survivor - trade
2 survivors - 3 survivors injured not on gens and you have an immediate chase
No random grab that spirals the match into a 4k because of randomness.
Again give killers reward for unique hooks. Promoting healthy gameplay should be good.
Hook grabs don't give nothing, they are random, promote camping, don't show skill on either side, are boring to watch and do. Remove them.
If killers want to be stronger on unhooks, pick perks or powers that allow you to do that. Don't rely on dumb luck.
Camping SHOULD be a "free" kill.
Why?
That's exactly what we need less of in this game. Tactics with zero counterplay that also completely remove one player's ability to pip, get BP or even really participate in the match.
It's one step removed from bodyblocking someone into the poop room on Gideon, frankly.
1.) I don't care about "counterplay", or this community's obsession with it. Not everything deserves or needs it.
2.) It's game throwing. If a killer decides he's willing to let you do all the gens because Felix ticked him off, he should be able to do that.
3.) Blocking a room is not letting someone play the game. If you are hooked, you GOT the play the game and this is the consequence of getting outplayed.
If you are in favor of that, then give survivors back off the record and DS in end game so they have free escapes then.
The game needs interaction, camping is a strategy and should make survivors adjust their gameplay to deal with it.
Camping should not be a "free" kill. You get a kill by hooking a survivor 3 times, that is your free kill, if you want to camp that survivor, you need a plan, a build/killer and be ready if your plan goes badly.
Why should a killer camp, the gens are closed, force survivors to heal and rescue to stop gens, in the end game since you have no other objective.
Camping should be a strategy to force the other side, the hook grab is luck based and has no skill.
If camping is a free kill, then you just incentive survivors to just bring gen rush builds and let the other survivor dead on hook
On #3, it's not THAT easy.
They're gradually doing it anyhow, killers with garbage addon sets have been getting reworks every once in awhile.
It's only really like.... Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Billy, and Freddy who have terrible addon selections where there's a tiny handful of good addons. Wanting everything to be good is asking for a bit much, I think we should be happy at just having plenty of options, even if some are niche.
On offerings they do need to swap the shrouds, but otherwise they're pretty fine to me? I'd like map offerings reworked but that's a separate issue.
Exactly; if I can get a free unhook grab without dedicated servers and survivors tapping the unhooking button to bait the grab into a hit. It would much more fair and consistent and opens up a free opportunity for the other Survivors to escape. If anything, Hook grabs should be buffed so that if in front of the hook and if they touch the unhooked button in front the Killer's face; it should automatically be a grab regardless if it is a grab or not.
You are wrong, SWF already can safely coordinate unhooks, this would be a way bigger buff for solos.
I see many solo players just try to unhook and get grabbed.
If i am playing with friends that never happens as we call it out.
Its amazing:
Lets remove hook grabs and buff killers in other ways to promote interactive gameplay
Killer players:
No if i camp that survivor should be dead, he got caught, so i have the right to do it. Not everything needs counterplay and this community is obsessed with it.
Also killer player:
Bloodlust exist to guarantee that a killer can catch a survivor, a survivor shouldn't be able to have a chase forever. Thank god they removed end game DS and old DH that had no counterplay.
Have an option where people can't play with voice coms and perks like Knock Out are actually.... strong.
False equivalency, but have fun with that.
I didn't invente any of those statements.
So the only thing i know is that killers want guaranteed kills and survivors not being able to interact is ok.
I did not say you invented them. I said your attempt to equate them to each other is false.
Wanting hook grabs is not the same as saying Killers should win chases because of Bloodlust 2 & 3.
You are trying to claim these are two equal things that paint Killers as hypocrites, and you're wrong. Removing hook grabs & removing Bloodlust 2 & 3 would be massive Killer nerfs that are being pushed because Survivors want easier games now that they got BHVR to nerf Nurse again.
Exactly how I feel abt 4 person slugging
like it's actively helping the survivor in question by not using hook states lol