Hook suiciding is a loophole to DC without penalty.
Hook suiciding is used to DC except without getting the penalty deserved for DCing.
If hook suiciding is removed, people will either actually DC, AFK, or sandbag, ruining a game that… would be ruined anyways if they suicided on hook.
If people then actually DC, then they get the DC penalty they deserve. If they AFK, they should be kicked and given the DC penalty they deserve.
People already sandbag even when a loophole around the DC penalty exists. This does not suddenly make sandbagging a new issue.
If they sandbag and are too obvious about it, they risk a ban from the game entirely. If they play enough for it to be passable as just a bad player, then they’re still playing instead of quitting.
You can’t force a player to stay in a game they don’t want to play, sure. But you can make sure they don’t have a way to DC while avoiding the penalty literally meant for DCing.
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An exception can easily be made specifically for a situation where a survivor could try and give hatch. It does not justify keeping suiciding as a whole.
- Example: If only 1 or less survivor is standing (healthy/injured/Deep Wound), a Give Up option appears.
Hook suiciding ≠ Self-unhooking. Hook suiciding can be removed without removing self-unhooking.
- Example: A penalty that isn’t remaining time on hook. Eg, Broken for 20s upon unhook per failed attempt. A serious debuff for people not trying to suicide on hook, but doesn’t allow people to suicide on hook.
Comments
I never understood why self-unhooking is even a thing.
Just make it so it can only be done with perks like Deliverance or Slippery Meat. Also get rid of hook grabs.
Ah yes, the usual doomsday prophecy caused by DC penalties. And the root issues is still a missing backbone in ragequitters.
Oh the bots. At first i was on board with this idea but when thinking again it will be hilarious and not much better than your prophecy.
Certain killer character will probably play against bots 90%+, in popularity threads even trapper gets hated from some.
And obvious or confirmed swf/last second switcher won't get their match cancelled during loading screen because someone "crashed" but instead will load into the map only for the killer do instantly DCing with not penalties to be left with a maaayybe "satisfactory"/enjoyable/most probably boring in the long run killer bot.
A new form of petty will arise.
I don't expect the devs to manage to program truly satisfying bots. To be honest, I never have seen any in my other pvp games (rocket league, lol, R6S...), either ridiculously stupid and easy to beat or so hard it's no longer fun but never the sweet spot. Either to predicable and braindead or bordering on what deals like cheating (instant kills and stuff).
"And they deserve to be punished and have their action followed by consequences. Either they accept EVERY flow/outcome for a match or they shouldn't even queue up. Most unfun things on either side are public knowledge after 6 years and if they can't deal with it they should just leave."
Yeah the thing is you can say this all you want to but it wont change anything. In an ideal world, sure. In reality....?
"You call it self correcting but uhh boy, the amount of swf i expect to load into a game only to get instantly ditched by the killer for a bot with no penalties"
Again, you say this but in reality if they are going to leave one way or another, they will regardless. Most people actually want to play a game through and taking them out of queues just makes matchmaking times worse.
As killer, I never tunnel off hook and I never camp and you know what? I pretty much never get DC's and I don't think that is just coincidental (though people still DC very occasionally for no apparent reason).
I think DC's would no doubt increase at first if removed, as we see currently. But eventually things will even out as the vast majority want to actually play matches and DC's or suicide on hook clearly ruins that.
No there's always been DC's but never as frequent as the past year and a half. The devs have completely ######### on solo survivors which at least use to be the majority of the player base. They removed a ranking system that promoted actually playing matches out and buffed killers (which was needed) however they didn't give solo players (which has always been the weakest role in the game) anything in return. If you want to blame anyone for the state of the game you should blame the dev team.
I think DC's would no doubt increase at first if removed, as we see currently. But eventually things will even out as the vast majority want to actually play matches and DC's or suicide on hook clearly ruins that.
Sorry but this last part alone is incredibly naive. People will better themselves over time?
Please. 😮💨
Online anonymity brings out the worst in people and they will continue to do so when there are no consequences to their actions.
And you (not as a person) want to remove the DC penalty aka the ONLY consequence there is right now? Good luck, especially when lackluster bots will dampen the effective outrage, relative to what happens now upon a DC and especially in times of no penalties, but not really solve to problem. Only leave it in a half satisfactory state.
Well nothing will change at this rate, people will just yeet out on hook regardless and there will be no motivation to address the most common and obvious causes of people leaving matches (tunnelling being a big one).
Punishment doesn't work, it either takes people out of queues or they simply yeet out on first hook to avoid that punishment. Punishing the latter will just take more people out of the queues and they will simply go and play something else.
Either way, I will be interested to see how BHVR deals with the current tunnelling off hook meta in particular...
Bots in addition to the DC penalty would be infinitely better. To lessen the sting when someone shows their spectacular lack of backbone.
No, not out-and-out just bots. People want to play against/with actual people, that's why they queued up for an online match and not a bot match. Bots aren't a full working limb, they're a stapled-on peg leg.
Someone has a mild problem, real or not, they DC. Someone else decides they'd like an actual full game, they DC. On and on until the match becomes a single player game. But that doesn't matter to the first person who ragequit, he get his free out. Every time.
And all that queue time, wasted.
I don't know how you don't see that exact scenario happening.
How do you fix salty players? Like, really? I´ve seen bully squads dc/suicide when their plan to bully the killer didn´t work out.
How do you fix players that actively go out and try to ruin someone elses match and then just leave, because its not going their way?
This just creates a toxic cirle. Keeping them in the game just makes everything more toxic for everyone. If they don´t like the game, then they should just take a break instead of ruining the game for everyone else.
It’s genuinely eye-twitching to see how many people will break their backs bending over backwards to defend being able to ragequit without penalty.
"It’s a symptom" is not a valid reason. Just because there’s other issues does not justify having a loophole to quit while avoiding the penalty FOR quitting. The same reason pretty much every other multiplayer versus game does not have a loophole around DCing, because it would be stupid abused.
If you don’t want to face something that is a part of the game that you know exists, don’t queue up. Go play a single-player game and stop ruining it for players mature enough to play out the game.
That's not true I Qued up as Spirit and as soon as I got a down (because of Lethal Pursuer) they DCd and then another DCd after when they saw it was a Spirit.....
Players will DC for ANY reason they want to avoid things in the game....I have seen people DC because they were downed first, downed too quickly, being sent to a map they didn't like, DC because it's a killer they didn't want to face etc
Hook Suicide and DCs may be a symptom of deeper issues, but another issue are entitled players in general that think something is OP or Broken because they just don't like it and will leave as soon as it happens
Why play multiplayer games? Because I want to and because it's fun
And also, you basically already said every multiplayer game has DCs. So why with DBD would be any different?
I feel some people want this game to die....
Hooks should be changed to prevent hook-DCing.
'You can't force people to stay in a game they are not enjoying'. YES YOU CAN! When you join a multiplayer game, you are making a tacit agreement to play out the match, win or lose. Because the alternative is everyone quitting whenever they get their underwear in a knot, and then no one wants to play because matches never finish.
If someone is going to ragequit the second they're 'not enjoying' a match; They need to stop playing. Now. All they are doing is ruining the game for everyone else by logging in, quitting the second things go pear-shaped, and then patting themselves on the back with excuses on how they had a right to ragequit on the hook because they 'were not having fun' and 'games are supposed ot be fun'.
Guess what? It's not fun for your teammates when you (hypothetical 'you', not anyone in this thread) flip the table and hook DC because you were found too fast, found first, it's a map you don't like, it's a Killer you don't like, Killer is using perks you don't like, whatever new excuse Survivors use to hook DC.
Bottom line is that hook stages need to be changed:
Fixed.
I still don't know what you are getting at? Everything you say is based off opinion. Yes, I used "legit strats" that are unfun. Yes, those are legit strategies. I didn't state that they weren't. That doesn't take away the fact that some people will find them unfun to play against.
You post videos about streamers that I don't care about. Some killers are "forced" to do fully legit strategies? No, sorry buddy. Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to do anything. You, and people who think like you, get into your feelings and decide to play in specific ways. Is this wrong? No. Does it make it unfun for some people? Yes. The same goes in reverse. Not using your "legit strategies" will make it unfun for you. Is this wrong? No. At the end of the day, everybody who is playing the game has paid for it to play. We don't have to be forced into a game style of your choosing.
I would hope that in a VIDEO GAME, that requires interactions with other people, that everyone is ethical enough to play a style in which everyone has fun. This world will never come to that. 1st priority isn't for the killer to not (lose). Again, this is a video game. This isn't your job. No one is paying you to play this. 1st priority for both sides is to be entertained and have fun. That's what you paid to play for. Your OBJECTIVE for a killer is to kill survivors. How you go about that is of your own choosing. Same as a survivors OBJECTIVE is to survive. How they do that is of their own choosing.
Keep taking the "fun" out of the majority player base and see how long your "fun" will last. People will just stop playing. You can already see this by the mass disconnects and suicide hooks. This does not explain the reasoning for some players but there is a reason that this is happening more and more.
Other games have either refill or rejoin mechanics or punish quitter without exception.
DBD doesn't have any of the first two and survivor only can circumvent the penalty by hook suicide, the thing that this thread is complaining about.
Like people already pointed out, if the survivors want to quit but don't want to DC, and if they can't hook suicide, they will just throw the match.
I much rather see people quitting than staying in the game giving me a false sense of winning. I don't want to waste my time with hopeless games. But that is just me.
Technically, they are "playing out the match". They are using the hook system the way it was designed. The devs gave survivors a way to unhook themselves, although a very small chance of it happening, and they used it. They are using a valid tactic in the game to leave. If you remove that, people will find other loopholes to "quit" the match. Killers get their hooks/sacrifices/kills, survivor gets to leave.
Survivors and killers both ruin the game for each other. This won't ever be changed. As long as there is a "win by any means" strategy, it will create bad environments for everyone. Games ARE supposed to be fun. That's the reason you play them. Getting achievements will be fun for some, just messing around will be fun, killing everybody with no remorse will be fun. To each their own. What are you spending money on it for? Just to throw money in the trash?
You don't.
Those players would have DC'd or suicided or AFK'd regardless.
It's the people who have gone who against one too many sweat squad in a night or one too many maximum slowdown Killer in a night that you can prevent. Those are the people that the DC penalty affects. Normal players pushed to the brink by poor game mechanics. The ######### who try to bully and then quit? They don't give a #########.
I agree with you partly. The players that go out of themselves to ruin someone elses day need to go.
We need a system that incentivizes and rewards playing "nice". But i´ve honestly no idea how to implement something like this.
Technically, they are "playing out the match". They are using the hook system the way it was designed.No, they are exploiting an unintended side-effect of the hook system to ragequit while avoiding DC penalties.
If you remove that, people will find other loopholes to "quit" the match.And every other currently-known ways to 'quit' the match are all reportable: AFKing, running at the Killer to die faster, etc. All are reportable.
So why is this ONE WAY sudden so holy and blessed as a workaround? It's an exploit, plain and simple. When I hook someone and they IMMEDIATELY start trying to get off the hook and fail their skillchecks; I report them.
It's funny that it's an unintended side-effect of the hook system to ragequit but when it comes to killers, anything goes and it's all valid. I believe you already posted before that you are a biased killer because you've had bad behaviored survivors hurt your feelings so obviously there is no winning this with you. No point to reply to this as I will not entertain you anymore. We both already know where we stand in this topic. Happy new Year. I hope the best for you.
And other have elaborated the options those people then would have:
Dc-> increasing time out penalty
Afk -> needs a kick after a minute + leaver penalty
Sandbagging etc. -> report followed by ban.
Aka consequences for those people. But i get it you don't care. Then maybe stop caring that people like me want to punish those people for their selfish actions and if they leave the game, better for the rest that has the guts to push through.
I'm replying because you attacked me, so don't try to scurry away like you're right. Because you're not.
It's funny that it's an unintended side-effect of the hook system to ragequit but when it comes to killers, anything goes and it's all valid.Except you're wrong. Killers literally have 0 ways to leave to end a match early that are non-reportable. DC: Reportable. AFK: Reportable. Work with Survivors: Reportable.
So you're wrong.
I believe you already posted before that you are a biased killer because you've had bad behaviored survivors hurt your feelings so obviously there is no winning this with you.I don't recall saying I'm a biased Killer. Last time it was brought up, I said I mainly play Killer. If you think that's 'biased'; that's your problem.
And it's not a discussion to 'win'. So there's your problem; you want to 'win' the discussion, so you refuse to see opposing points of view.
We both already know where we stand in this topic.Yes, we do.
Harsh penalties will only kill the game. There's a reason people d/c. Maybe we should address those reasons, in the best possible way, so that they are happening way less (Because let's be real, people will d/c for the silliest reasons). The AFK thing, people will find a loophole around. I don't know what sandbagging is.
Should there be penalties for bad behavior stuff? Of course. I don't think giving harsh penalties is the answer, though. I think addressing why people are doing it should be the better route.
Don't you just not queue up at that point though? If you are on major tilt and don't really want to play, either don't queue up or stick out the last match(10 whole min extra by that point). Only game I have ever seen where the community actively wants a rage quit button. Even the worst community's still want their teammates to play it out and get punished for quitting.
In league you can troll, throw, int in the moment but you'll be suspended in a few games of that. Same with DC'ing and afking you get a couple games.
I just had a nea suicide on hook in my game with a stacked bnp toolbox and meta build. She got hooked once and gave up instantly at 2 gens. If she had stuck around it was a 4 man out for sure. Why should she be allowed to do that? What if the killer was just a bit better? There is just no real defense for stuff like this other than "I feel like players who are overwhelmed at the moment should be free to leave when they want at the expense of all other players".
You don't want to punish selfish people
You want to punish people with bad internet, crashing PC, having to be AFK due to an emergency, etc
Why are you actively playing a game when you know you have an unstable connection or pc... you're just ruining it for yourself with either lag or hitches and no one likes either of those. The only valid one seems to be an emergency which you should still get punished for because even though it wasn't your fault its what you agreed to when you bought the game and those are hard stuck rules not like talking to your boss and they understand.
If they hook suicide, they threw the match regardless. Them sandbagging instead doesn’t change squat.
If you have bad internet or constant crashing and decide to queue up anyways, that is 1000% on you. You queued up despite knowing you might be kicked out, which ruins the game for all 4 other players. You absolutely deserve any DC penalty you get in that situation.
And if you have an emergency, you’re going to be probably gone longer than the DC penalty lasts anyways. Emergencies shouldn’t be happening that frequently, meaning the DC penalty also wouldn’t be that high. And if there’s an actual emergency, a video game DC timer for a little bit is the least of your worries.
That's gatekeeping and it shouldn't be taken seriously in the first place because this is not a competitive game
It's supposed to be played to have fun
None of that is really gatekeeping as I asked a quesiton and not saying "you shouldnt be playing" all though that could also end up as a suggestion. Also the whole "its supposed to be played to have fun" when playing a multiplayer game really isnt valid because what happens when you dc off your own volition? You ruin the game for the rest of the people that still wanted to try.
it odd but some think of it as a competitive game which it not to random and rng to be competitive.
Over 90% of all games go like this: if the killer sees you first, you go down, no matter how long it takes, and then you get camped and tunneled into oblivion. Why sit through that?
People that try to play with others while knowing that they have connection problems or regular crashes and don't care that they might inconvenience their teammates and other players in the match deserve it and only have themselves to blame.
And if it happens rarely then they have to take bullet for the rest of the playerbase. I know because I also had isolated crashes or disconnects during a net hickup and took the penalty without whining because I know that they are necessary in the time of online anonymity.
And if i have reoccurring crashes or disconnects? Then i simply switch to a singleplayer game, read a book or do something aka take the hint that this is not my evening to play a certain game.
Ehm aren't you contradicting yourself here?
"There's a reason people DC. Maybe we should address those reason..."
And then two sentences later:
"Let's be real, people will DC for the silliest reasons"
How can you address silly reasons?
You cant address people throwing at the slightest bit of inconvenience/not having fun/having an effort demanding match.
And let's be honest, times when the penalties have shown that's it's by far not only camping, tunneling or slugging. I know from experience since i was a friendly killer and even i had a disconnect upon first down, playing the wrong killer, having the wrong perk or us ending on the wrong map (without any map offerings being used).
People a little wussies when there are no consequences to their actions.
Edit: Sandbagging: blocking other survivors at bottlenecks like pallets, doorway or narrow hallways so the killer can hit/down them.
And to the afk loophole, either they are truly detectable afk or the can still work as a distraction for the killer. And if they decide to hide all the time, simply implement a condition that survivor need to do something like progress a gen or cleanse a totem for a certain amount of progress in a certain timeframe otherwise they get notification crows. This would btw also solve the problem of the last 2 survivor outstealthing each other and holding the game hostage.
OK Mr. Genius go on and tell the community please how on earth you are able to differentiate between a player that is "hook suiciding" and perhaps a new or bad player that just misses his skillcheck on hook? These things happen and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
By your logic the attempt of self unhook should also be removed because it could be used by the "suicidal players" to speed the process of hook suicide.
Finish the match and go on. I mean, even if they get punished by any means it will not change the outcome of the actual game they "hook suicide".
The thing is a lot of people including me are getting tired of people posting the latest video by Streamer X and then take their word as law. All they are stating is their opinions on the issues at hand...yes they can have valid points and I'm not saying they don't but the issue that makes people not to care about what they have to say are those that take those opinions as facts and will use that as their "proof" they are right.
BHVR have stated multiple times that survivors can play altruistically or selfishly - suiciding on the hook can serve both purposes.
An insurmountable amount of gens when there is two players and you've been hooked? Or Only two players left and Player three been slugged and left down while you're player 4 and got hooked? Suicide to bring about the hatch to give them a chance to escape - Altruism.
Being tunnelled/camped/ or not enjoying the match and want out; Suicide and move on - Selfish.
Both are clearly valid tactics, it just depends on whether you care if it impacts your team or not. Whilst both methods get you out the match the difference is suiciding takes more effort , as you can actually end up freeing yourself unintentionally and have to continue playing and you have to get yourself to the second stage. This also gives the killer BP for a sacrifice, where DCing does not. That's the crux of why they're not considered equal and why it isn't a loophole.
It's not something BHVR are going to change because it's part of the Survivor Personality aspect of the game.
You do realize I wasn't referring to him when I said Streamer X right? When I said that I was referring to Streamers as a whole and the whole mindset of "Oh they are Streamers we should listen to them"
Another reason why I didn't name him specifically is because he was giving ACTUAL FACTS and not baseless opinions. It's a refreshing change fr all the other posts of people linking videos of Streamers that don't give any facts.....(going back to my post)
Who cares? Finish the game to the best of your ability and move on. It's not your teammates problem if you fail to survive.
Why get hit within the first 60 seconds of the match with lethal pursuer? Or if they're being aggressively tunneled out or facecamped? Why should a killer have to deal with garbage survivors being absolute douches just so they can have content for their <100 viewer social media?
Ahhh ok it's hard to tell sometimes on the forums :D