illumina
illumina
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- illumina
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I cringe every time I vault. Using Lithe, I have to vault super early because my character stops, slides over, gets wacked. I question if fast vaulting is even a thing. There are more occurrences of me stopping to vault then me actually running and getting the fast vault. Then there is exactly as you say, I'll be full cleared of the vault and in running motion, only to still be hit/downed. It is pretty frustrating.
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@burt0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308748#Comment_3308748
And other have elaborated the options those people then would have:
Dc-> increasing time out penalty
Afk -> needs a kick after a minute + leaver penalty
Sandbagging etc. -> report followed by ban.
Aka consequences for those people. But i get it you don't care. Then maybe stop caring that people like me want to punish those people for their selfish actions and if they leave the game, better for the rest that has the guts to push through.
Harsh penalties will only kill the game. There's a reason people d/c. Maybe we should address those reasons, in the best possible way, so that they are happening way less (Because let's be real, people will d/c for the silliest reasons). The AFK thing, people will find a loophole around. I don't know what sandbagging is.
Should there be penalties for bad behavior stuff? Of course. I don't think giving harsh penalties is the answer, though. I think addressing why people are doing it should be the better route.
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I believe devs won't ever make drastic changes to solo q or give survivors any meaningful change because they favor killers. It's already been proven by the mods that killers can do no wrong and everything in this game is valid for them. Illusionary fixes just give you a false sense of hope that they are actually doing anything. I don't think that they will do anything to actually address solo q because then it will have a negative impact on their darling killers. But I guess, why should they? The name implies it all. Dead by Daylight. This is specifically for killers isn't it?
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308751#Comment_3308751
Technically, they are "playing out the match". They are using the hook system the way it was designed.No, they are exploiting an unintended side-effect of the hook system to ragequit while avoiding DC penalties.
If you remove that, people will find other loopholes to "quit" the match.And every other currently-known ways to 'quit' the match are all reportable: AFKing, running at the Killer to die faster, etc. All are reportable.
So why is this ONE WAY sudden so holy and blessed as a workaround? It's an exploit, plain and simple. When I hook someone and they IMMEDIATELY start trying to get off the hook and fail their skillchecks; I report them.
It's funny that it's an unintended side-effect of the hook system to ragequit but when it comes to killers, anything goes and it's all valid. I believe you already posted before that you are a biased killer because you've had bad behaviored survivors hurt your feelings so obviously there is no winning this with you. No point to reply to this as I will not entertain you anymore. We both already know where we stand in this topic. Happy new Year. I hope the best for you.
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I would agree with some of these posts. I mainly play survivor and a lot of it is solo q. I do play SWf but it's with friends/family who are casual so our SWf is nowhere near the sweaty tryhard group. A lot of times my SWF "loses" but it's still fun when we play against fun killers. I've been playing a lot of killer lately and I will run meta if my challenge requires me to do so. If I have a challenge to kill survivors by any means in a single match or something. Most of the times, if its a challenge where I just have to damage generators/pallets/etc., I will do the challenge and get a few hooks but I will let all of the survivors get gens done and escape. I've been having fun playing this way. It really takes the stress off when you don't have to try super hard to "win" the match.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
Hooks should be changed to prevent hook-DCing.
'You can't force people to stay in a game they are not enjoying'. YES YOU CAN! When you join a multiplayer game, you are making a tacit agreement to play out the match, win or lose. Because the alternative is everyone quitting whenever they get their underwear in a knot, and then no one wants to play because matches never finish.
If someone is going to ragequit the second they're 'not enjoying' a match; They need to stop playing. Now. All they are doing is ruining the game for everyone else by logging in, quitting the second things go pear-shaped, and then patting themselves on the back with excuses on how they had a right to ragequit on the hook because they 'were not having fun' and 'games are supposed ot be fun'.
Guess what? It's not fun for your teammates when you (hypothetical 'you', not anyone in this thread) flip the table and hook DC because you were found too fast, found first, it's a map you don't like, it's a Killer you don't like, Killer is using perks you don't like, whatever new excuse Survivors use to hook DC.
Bottom line is that hook stages need to be changed:
- Trying to get off the hook no longer increases progression
- Lower attempts to get off the hook to 2, since everyone will be doing it every time now
- Any item or perk that 'increases the chance of getting off the hook' now gives you +1 attempts
- Create a 'Self-Unhook' debuff that only procs if someone successfully self-unhooks without Deliverance or other perks. The debuff blocks self-healing for a short amount of time, but teammates can still heal you. The duration increases for each failed self-unhook attempt.
- You can no longer fail skillchecks in Stage 2 to die faster. Instead, failing skillchecks gives a 'Touched by the Entity' debuff. This debuff reduces all channeled action speed (healing, opening chests, repairing, opening gates) for a set time after being unhooked. The duration is increased for each skillcheck failed.
Fixed.
Technically, they are "playing out the match". They are using the hook system the way it was designed. The devs gave survivors a way to unhook themselves, although a very small chance of it happening, and they used it. They are using a valid tactic in the game to leave. If you remove that, people will find other loopholes to "quit" the match. Killers get their hooks/sacrifices/kills, survivor gets to leave.
Survivors and killers both ruin the game for each other. This won't ever be changed. As long as there is a "win by any means" strategy, it will create bad environments for everyone. Games ARE supposed to be fun. That's the reason you play them. Getting achievements will be fun for some, just messing around will be fun, killing everybody with no remorse will be fun. To each their own. What are you spending money on it for? Just to throw money in the trash?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308490#Comment_3308490
They were matches where we knew the killer wasn't tunneling/slugging/camping/3gen.You are describing matches where killers use legit strategies as unfun, and the list have grown too, 3gen?
1st. prio for the killer is not to loose, for example by getting a good 3 gen, 2nd prio is to win. You cant get 2 if you dont have 1.
Also, as a former killer, i have been insulted and cursed when actually was following the survivors rulebook, called tunneler or camper when i did none of those, to a point where i decided that the only use for survivors rulebook for killers, is when im out of toilet paper.
I would suggest you watch this video, to give you a clue why a lot of killers feel forced to do those fully legit strategies, that YOU decided isnt fun. (i never liked beeing blinded as killer, still survivors use flashlights all the time).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_nsrd1IZiQ&t=116s
Also, killers have been nerfed and nerfed no matter how much people say "
killers have never been stronger" yes they have, people saying that, have no clue or are lying, as you can also see Otz talk about, in the next video, where he is also is addresseing the tunneling.I still don't know what you are getting at? Everything you say is based off opinion. Yes, I used "legit strats" that are unfun. Yes, those are legit strategies. I didn't state that they weren't. That doesn't take away the fact that some people will find them unfun to play against.
You post videos about streamers that I don't care about. Some killers are "forced" to do fully legit strategies? No, sorry buddy. Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to do anything. You, and people who think like you, get into your feelings and decide to play in specific ways. Is this wrong? No. Does it make it unfun for some people? Yes. The same goes in reverse. Not using your "legit strategies" will make it unfun for you. Is this wrong? No. At the end of the day, everybody who is playing the game has paid for it to play. We don't have to be forced into a game style of your choosing.
I would hope that in a VIDEO GAME, that requires interactions with other people, that everyone is ethical enough to play a style in which everyone has fun. This world will never come to that. 1st priority isn't for the killer to not (lose). Again, this is a video game. This isn't your job. No one is paying you to play this. 1st priority for both sides is to be entertained and have fun. That's what you paid to play for. Your OBJECTIVE for a killer is to kill survivors. How you go about that is of your own choosing. Same as a survivors OBJECTIVE is to survive. How they do that is of their own choosing.
Keep taking the "fun" out of the majority player base and see how long your "fun" will last. People will just stop playing. You can already see this by the mass disconnects and suicide hooks. This does not explain the reasoning for some players but there is a reason that this is happening more and more.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308332#Comment_3308332
The game isnt fun if you are on the loosing side, how will you fix that? what if every killer DCed as soon as you did first gen on 60 secs or less?
I've had plenty of matches where we "lose" and it was still fun so I don't know what you are getting at. They were matches where we knew the killer wasn't tunneling/slugging/camping/3gen. All of us ended up dying but it was still a good game regardless. So your interpretation of losing isn't fun is not shared by everyone.
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I think it should be a separate option so players can choose to play this way or not. Otherwise, I think less people will play for that week.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308332#Comment_3308332
DCing throws the game immediately. Tunneling/camping/slugging/etc are strategies that can still be dealt with, even if not fun to go against. And you misunderstand my post. I know people will leave regardless. But the issue is currently, they can quit while having no penalty for quitting. It bypasses the penalty that exists literally for quitting.
I don't think there is a solution to this to be honest. I support penalties for quitters but when this game has "valid strategies" for making it unfun for each other then penalties will not solve the issue. People will just find another way to loophole the system or just not play the game at all and it will die. I think at the moment, forcing people to play the game is not the right action.
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You know, games are here for entertainment and fun. You can't force someone to play a game if they aren't enjoying it. People go into the match expecting to have a good time. Guess what? D/cing, afking, and sandbagging (Honestly, I don't know what sandbagging is) doesn't make it fun for the other survivors. Guess what also doesn't make it fun? Tunneling, camping, slugging, 3genning, etc. Both sides are guilty of creating a bad environment for both sides.
Why force someone to deal with a match they aren't going to have fun in? 1 person d/c right after getting downed first time, the other 3 survivors are going to have a hell of a time trying to recover from that. Some people will find it fun, some won't. The escape rate for survivors on a 3v1 are drastically different than a 4v1. Killer tunnels 1 person out, the other 3 survivors are going to have a hell of a time trying to recover. Better to end the game as fast as possible so everyone can move onto the next one than drag someone into a match that doesn't want to be there and will ruin it anyways.
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Didn't know it shift works that way. Good to know. I'll have to pay attention to it. I swear shift is almost always pushed for me if I'm los of killer.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305016#Comment_3305016
I didn't change it, it was obviously implied to begin with.
I think at this point you stopped following any kind of logic. Hatch is not here to let the last survivior escape, it's there to give them a chance to escape. So there is no guarantee they do, and it's entirely reasonable that killer will try to prevent this chance.
Hatch being pointless is not my opinion, it's literally in the game because hatch escapes don't affect MMR. The only benefit of hatch escape is not losing your item as survivior and killer getting a few less bloodbpoints.
Sure thing bud. Coming from someone who is clearly biased.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3307347#Comment_3307347
Of course none of it is reportable.
99% of reports would be Survivors screaming they got slugged/camped/tunneled/etc when the Killer did not pick them up in the middle of a pallet or saw their friend waiting to flashlight-save. Salty 'I lost' reports across the board.
I can watch DBD streamers and youtubers, and what's one of the FIRST THINGS out of their mouths if they are left downed for 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005 of a second? "The Killer is SlUgGiNg!"
You seem to have a bias towards survivors. I'm sure it's not 99% but every post you make lumps every single survivor into this negative category. I'll be sure to take anything you say as gospel >.>
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Apparently, there is no such thing as BM as a killer. They can bleed you out, slug, tunnel, camp, etc. Anything that they want to do they can do. None of it is reportable. So, what can you do? Just take it. It's already been confirmed from mods that all of this is acceptable for killers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306983#Comment_3306983
It dosnt matter what i think, but since you ask. i dont think its any worse than survivors standing and waiting for the killer at the exit gate, and if i ever get back to playing killer, i will do that with the last survivor for as long as they survivors wait at the exit gates instead of just running out.
Why do people like you like to bring up survivors being toxic as a counter argument? Report those guys for all I care. If they get a ban then good. I don't support bad manners or toxic behavior, regardless of which side it is. You shouldn't promote bad behavior with bad behavior. But if that's the attitude that you roll with then we can just end this conversation here because you can't be reasoned with and it's not worth anyone's time to try and argue.
In entertainment's scenario, I cannot go to another exit gate because I am downed. I am the last survivor and by body is on top of hatch right where the killer is standing. Baiting the hatch is not the issue. The issue comes where the killer can easily just hook me and end the game at that point. Instead, they chose to taunt me the whole time throughout EGC. What don't you understand about this? The game can be finished just by him hanging me.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306702#Comment_3306702
No its not, entertainment720 have answered this many times the last few days.
Did you not read? It wasn't just slugging. If there were 2 survivors and he left me to find the other survivor to end us both, different story. This person intentionally downed me at hatch and proceeded to swing at my body, summon guards on me, and let me bleed out for absolutely no reason at all. Hatch is locked and I'm downed. You consider this a legit tactic? Game could've ended the moment he downed me at hatch but he proceeded to taunt me and wait out the timer.
I'm sure what entertainment meant by slugging is valid when there are two survivors left and one is left downed to search for the other. Don't try to promote bad behavior by skewing meanings.
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Still broken. Half a year later why isn't this fixed?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305121#Comment_3305121
Can I get some clarification on this, please?
I've only ever heard that 'slugging isn't against the rules', which is true. Not all slugging falls into a 'BM' or greifing category, obviously, so there's nuance to this that can be hard to capture.
But in the past, I've had killers who, when everyone is dead already, stand over my body as I bleed out throwing hatchets at me. Even crawling past several functional hooks, not getting picked up and more hatchets and swinging. Until I eventually bleed out on the ground.
So in this kind of extreme griefing instance, I should be submitting reports for this? I admit it's rare for this level, but I'd always been under the impression that this exact scenario is 'not reportable, don't bother.'
Or maybe I misunderstood and you're only offering an alternative for video upload without trying to imply that the report is valid or actionable.
Yes, that would be considered BM and reportable. In my situation, the killer hovered over hatch, pretended that they were going to give it to me and then closed it right when I got close. They then proceeded to down me, spawn guards on me, swing at my body, and let me bleed out the timer.
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I will try that and see if it helps. I just picked a different challenge since I been on that one for a few days now. After the current challenge is finished, I will switch back and see.
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This is why we need a suicide or give up button. Give them the same amount of kill/bloodpoints for the suicide for all I care. It's just silly to be on the ground for the whole bleedout.
I will normally try to finish gens if its me and another survivor. If they get found before me and go down and I see that the killer isn't picking them up, I go hide and wait for hatch. If I get found, I try to crawl far away from the other person as possible and even try to motion to not save me. Unfortunately, there are a lot of altruistic survivors that try to go for the save and we both end up rekt because they try to save. Same goes for when I get hooked at EGC. If I'm SWF, I tell them to leave me because the risk isn't worth it. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell solo's this so they end up trying and it's either an exchange hook or 2-4 of us are hooked.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
Has anyone actually ever sat down and approach this, well, scientifically?
Like, how many bloodpoints/pips you get on average when playing fair vs playing scummy (with consensual farming as reference point?)
I didn't actually write down any numbers but on my journey with playing killer, I was paying attention to the pips and blood points. As a killer, I would have to do pretty much nothing the entire match to de-pip, if I run around and just injure/down people I will stay neutral, if I hook several times I will usually get 1 pip, complete 4k's will get me 2 pips. Now this is all at silver grade or below so it might be different at the higher grades.
Playing both survivor and killer, the shorter the matches, the less bloodpoints I see. I range between 13k-25k bloodpoints if I just go straight for kills off the bat without messing around. If I play around a bit and try to two hook everyone before I sacrifice, it will be 35k+. Survivor side ranges from 3k-15k on short matches, 23kish on average matches, 30k+ across the board (with killer) in a "fun" match.
Thats my personal experience.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305831#Comment_3305831
Obviously I care because this is outdated and should not work in the way it does currently. If the killer plays well enough to defend the gens and kill 3 survivors, why exactly should the last survivor escape? Survivors should survive if they played well but hatch almost always goes to the player that does the least.
Also, how do a second and third chance for a survivor favor the killer exactly? That doesn't add up. I'm probably to deep "in my feelings" to understand that one, right?
Again why should a killer not be allowed to deny hatch? If they want to guarantee the 4k they will probably slug. Saying killers aren't allowed to do that is like saying that survivors are not allowed to take hits, go for pallet / flashlight saves, sabotaging hooks and the list goes on. Survivors will do anything in their power to deny the killer gets a hook or a kill because it's exactly what they should do. How is it not ok for a killer to go for the 4k, then? Their objective is to kill as many survivors as possible after all.
I'm viewing this from a very rational point. Killing 3 survivors and not slugging is nice but not smart. Basekit Unbreakable was not considered because of that. It was considered because some killers tend to slug to unhealthy extends, which is a different problem that has more to do with how certain killers work.
Why exactly should the last survivor escape? They normally don't? You have no factual data that supports the statement that the hatch always goes to the player that does the least. The last survivor escapes because they so happened to find the hatch and escape through it. This does not always happen. If the killer plays well enough to defend gens and kill 3 survivors then blame the devs for putting in a system that gives the last survivor a chance to escape.
You are also trying to misconstrue words as well. I never said a second and third chance for a survivor favors the killer. You are trying to string together things don't belong. I said that "Trying to get hatch and gates are heavily favored towards the killer". What that means is that if both the killer and survivor are trying to find hatch, unless it spawns next to the survivor and gates are spread far apart, killer will get hatch and last survivor.
"Why should a killer not be allowed to deny hatch" - Where did I say you aren't allowed to deny hatch? You deny hatch by closing it and then guarding gates/hatch (If you are skeptical of a key). What slugging is doing is trying to negate the mechanic completely.
You are not viewing this very rational at all. You keep thinking that somewhere in here I'm saying killers shouldn't go for 4k which is not the point at all. Killers can get 4k with the hatch available. Does it throw a twist at the end and make you work for it a little differently? Yes. You know what else prevents you from achieving a 4k? Better survivors, bad mistakes on killers part, disconnects, etc. Why not just take all escapes away so killers can always 4k? At the end of the day, you have a problem with a mechanic that devs put into the game for last survivor to have a chance. Does this stop you from getting a 4k? If you are good, most of the time it won't. In the off chance that it does stop you, what did it hurt besides your ego?
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Why exactly should the last survivor escape? They normally don't? You have no factual data that supports the statement that the hatch always goes to the player that does the least. The last survivor escapes because they so happened to find the hatch and escape through it. This does not always happen. If the killer plays well enough to defend gens and kill 3 survivors then blame the devs for putting in a system that gives the last survivor a chance to escape.
You are also trying to misconstrue words as well. I never said a second and third chance for a survivor favors the killer. You are trying to string together things don't belong. I said that "Trying to get hatch and gates are heavily favored towards the killer". What that means is that if both the killer and survivor are trying to find hatch, unless it spawns next to the survivor and gates are spread far apart, killer will get hatch and last survivor.
"Why should a killer not be allowed to deny hatch" - Where did I say you aren't allowed to deny hatch? You deny hatch by closing it and then guarding gates/hatch (If you are skeptical of a key). What slugging is doing is trying to negate the mechanic completely.
You are not viewing this very rational at all. You keep thinking that somewhere in here I'm saying killers shouldn't go for 4k which is not the point at all. Killers can get 4k with the hatch available. Does it throw a twist at the end and make you work for it a little differently? Yes. You know what else prevents you from achieving a 4k? Better survivors, bad mistakes on killers part, disconnects, etc. Why not just take all escapes away so killers can always 4k? At the end of the day, you have a problem with a mechanic that devs put into the game for last survivor to have a chance. Does this stop you from getting a 4k? If you are good, most of the time it won't. In the off chance that it does stop you, what did it hurt besides your ego?
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305831#Comment_3305831
Is it so bad that 1 survivor dies?I mean you have already won.Is it so important that you bodyblock the killer or blind him or anything else you can do to save that one last survivor?
I've already pointed out in a previous comment that, I personally, do not do this. If it's EGC and last survivor got hooked, then I just leave. Again, you are trying to promote bad behavior with bad behavior which doesn't solve anything. Moving forward, it's pointless to try and argue with you since you are just trying to bring nonsensical things to validate nothing.
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@UntilValhalla13 said:
Dumb question out of the way: were you using quick and quiet? XD
Yep. Actually using Head On as well since I have to be in a locker lol.
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I mostly play solo q and today has been a legit sweatfest. As soon as I see that killer is using personal (sometimes even non-personal) blood points increase, I know it's going to be a bad game. Wraith's and Nurses going haam and leaving with 15-23k because the game ended that early. What a waste.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305016#Comment_3305016
"the killer STILL GETS TO KILL EVERYONE"
As they should! Think about it: Hatch opens after the killer won the game already with 3 survivors dead. How exactly is it fair for a survivor that has already lost the match to get a second chance and even if they don't make it out via hatch get another second chance for the gates? The killer doesn't get another chance to kill you after you escaped, because it makes no sense.
Apart from that the killer has the same right to do everything in their power in order to make sure no one escapes as the survivors have the right to unhook people or try to deny hooks to make sure everyone survives.
Don't get me wrong, being slugged sure isn't fun but it is necessary to guarantee the 4k, which again is necessary for quite a few archives and every single killer adept.
If you "think" that you won already, then why is it such a big deal that the last survivor has a chance at the hatch? Both trying to get hatch and gates are heavily favored towards the killer. I would even say that getting the gate as the last survivor is a 90% fail rate while getting hatch, survivors have to hope that it spawns near them.
Again, you are PURPOSEFULLY negating a mechanic put in place for the last survivor to have a chance. Are you so bad that you need to slug to get 4 kills? Is it so bad that 3/10 survivors will escape out of hatch? You are deterring away from killing every survivor in a match by letting that mechanic happen. You are simply playing the game as intended and it so happens that you didn't 4k some of them. Slugging to take away that mechanic is not what is intended or we wouldn't even have the hatch to begin with. If you have a problem with it, feedbacks and suggestions to devs is the better route. Getting into your feelings because you disapprove of it and taking it out on survivors is not helping anyone.
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@TDtheDoc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305016#Comment_3305016
Survivors can’t fathom one survivor dying,thus all the sabo,bodyblocking flashlight saves at end game when killer is trying to pull out a 1k from a bad game.Killers are supposed to settle for whatever scraps Survivors think they are worth,while Survivors expect to be allowed to escape every time.
Not all survivors do this. Personally, I will straight out leave if killer has a hook during EGC and it's the only sacrifice for the match. Why are you promoting bad behavior with bad behavior? The point of this is to fix the problem, not encourage more problems. I don't even know why you even brought that to the argument.
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@entertainment720 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305118#Comment_3305118
I agree - a video can be uploaded to Youtube (for example as unlisted) and then put the link in the support ticket.
Ah, I didn't think of that. Thanks for the tips both!
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Sadly I don't think you can even give proof of this to the devs. I have a video of a Knight doing exactly this to me that is only around 120mb. I tried uploading it to a support ticket to report the player but it keeps failing to upload giving me the error "Upload took too long". If I can't even upload a video of just being trolled during EGC, how are you supposed to give video proof of something happening?
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304687#Comment_3304687
Wrong, mori counts the same as 3rd hook since like 2 years ago. Killer's goal is to prevent surviviors from escaping by killing them, just not too fast.
Yes hatch is a mechanic in the game (duh) but it's a stupid and a pointless (from achieving goals perspective) mechanic.
Intuitively as a killer you should kill all surviviors you can, even if you have to slug for 4k, but counterintuitively it turns out that letting the last survivior escape through hatch gives the same result (other than less BP).
So it's clearly bad design and not killer's fault for doing what they believe they are supposed to do in the best way possible (or for just wanting more BP).
So, you changed from "prevent survivors from escaping" to "prevent survivors from escaping by killing them". YOU feel that the hatch mechanic is stupid and pointless. Again, voice your opinion to the devs. That doesn't change the fact that it's a mechanic put in place for survivors to stop killers from killing everyone. Besides hackers and better players, this mechanic is the only other thing that is stopping a killer. Even then, rng has to work in the survivors favor, otherwise the killer STILL GETS TO KILL EVERYONE.
Gates are also a mechanic to prevent killer from killing everyone. Should we remove gens and gates too? We should just make this hide and seek with no time limit so that killer will always win?
I think it's a bit silly to trash on a mechanic, that was put in place to help survivors and doesn't even really favor them, because some killers can't fathom 1 survivor being let go. AFAIK, you can still 4k with 1 survivor escaping. If you are a good killer, majority of matches, you are going to get everyone. Why is it so bad that you have a few matches where someone escapes through the hatch?
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I would say the blame goes to the devs on how the game is designed. If a killer wants to go sweaty and start tunneling right at 4-5 gens then they do what they want to do. I will easily take the penalty if a killer does this at 4-5 gens or slugs. Survivors are trying to win as well, if we are in solo's and the match starts that way, it drastically changes how the match will go. There is a big gap in winning percentage from 4v1 and 3v1. So, why would I give you hooks/kills when you decided to make it drastically difficult for survivors to win? As long as these strats exist, we should have a give up option so that way we can move on to the next, hopefully promising, match.
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Positive experience is me switching to playing killer and being the "fun" killer. I won't really kill/sacrifice anyone unless it's for challenges (There seems to be a lot of them, sadly). For example, I have matches where I will play clown and all I will do is chase survivors and throw bottles at them. It's really funny hearing them run and scream. It's really fun throwing bottles at a gen you know they are working on and disturbing them. I never actually injure them unless they want me to. A lot of my matches, I will start off by injuring them to make it seem like I'm actually trying but I won't down them. I'll try to keep everyone in the injured state and then eventually just let them finish.
To sum it up, playing the fun killer instead of a try hard has been a fun, new experience for me.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3304687#Comment_3304687
Ego matters sometimes. Because people are people.
For instance - the other day I fired up a meme Demogorgon build and a flan to drop in and have some fun. Ran slap bang into a terrifyingly strong SWF who I'm convinced had smurfed their MMR down, spanked me raw and called me names in postgame.
I've also had survivors straight up cuss me out in postgame *for letting them go* in a blowout game with a super early DC.
And that's before the...probably hundreds of times I've been insulted and gloated at postgame by the person I gave hatch to. It's like...did you want me to down you and carry you to the thing to prove I gave it to you?
After a few games like that, I promise you that most folks are not going to be in a particularly merciful mood. And I don't think that's their fault.
You got your feelings hurt by trolls and decided to take it out on the next person/people? If your ego is being hurt in a video game, maybe you should take some time to meditate. You brought a flan to a match, not knowing who your opponents are. You ran into a bad batch. Finish it and move on. Doesn't sound like that's helping anything but creating a chain of bad behaviors by giving the next group of possibility innocent survivors a bad time.
The original topic was that the OP doesn't want to be slugged for 4 minutes because the killer doesn't want last survivor to have a chance at hatch. We want to fix the issue because hatch is a mechanic in the game. Some killers are making it their objective to eliminate that mechanic for ego. Heck, I think you can still 4k even with the last survivor getting hatch? Not exactly sure how all that is calculated.
If hatch has to go, then so be it but I doubt it will change survivors playing hide and seek. I, personally, would like a give up option when down to the last 2 survivors. Chances of escaping through gate are pretty low so at that point, I would rather go to the next match then wait and see what the killer will do. If it's all about points, then give the killer sacrifice points for the white flag and so both sides will be happy.
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Been seeing a lot of posts like these lately on accounts with 1-2 posts...I wonder?
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300337#Comment_3300337
And again, the point of killer is to eliminate that "chance of escape".
The fact that the game introduces extra chance for the last survivior to escape while at the same time allowing the killer to prevent it from happening is simply bad design and that's all there is to it.
The devs themselves admitted that the hatch system is stupid because apparently hatch escapes don't affect MMR... It's basically a dumb coin toss that has no purpose.
Huh? Thought point of killer was to sacrifice survivors to entity? You taking it to the extreme because you want nobody to even have a chance at escaping is your choice. Just because escaping from hatch doesn't affect MMR doesn't change the fact that it's still a mechanic in the game meant to give survivors a feeling of satisfaction. Do you have any resources stating that devs think hatch system is stupid or are you just making assumptions based on the mmr?
Anyways, justify however you want for killers to get their 4k. The uncommon occurrences of survivors getting the hatch isn't going to stop killers getting Iri 1. At the end of the day, it's just a game. Not killing every survivor in every match hurts nothing but your ego.
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I think the higher MMR you go, the less fun it will be. People care too much about wins and victories that they get to the sweatfest and don't care about others experiences anymore. I stay on the lower MMR to get challenges done and get the best experience. A lot of survivors eventually figure out what I'm doing and play along.
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Well if you ever see me in game as a killer, I would gladly help you! I've been playing killer lately, just to do challenges and if I don't have to kill survivors, I just mess around and give them chase points, etc. It's been pretty fun and stressless to play with survivors who think I'm going to kill them but I don't.
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@Lovez600 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300235#Comment_3300235
I'm not surprised you don't get that.
Yep.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297975#Comment_3297975
Well not my fault the game is designed quite horribly.
Yes, the hatch means the last survivior has a chance to escape, and this is EXACTLY WHY killer does not want to kill the 3rd survivior. There is simply no logical reason to risk an escape when your goal is to get as many kills as possible. And basekit pickup won't change that.
What could change that is hatch spawning at 2 people, but that would be idiotic lmao
That's not the point. The point is that the game suggests last survivor has a chance for escape. You don't like that suggestion so you take it upon yourself to eliminate it out the equation. Survivors have to survive just as killers have to kill.
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@ByeByeQ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300235#Comment_3300235
With highly coordinated (they are using clock maps) survivors on comms, DbD is firmly survivor-sided. These teams without restrictions would mean that weak killers can actually get no hooks before the gens are done no matter how good the player playing the killer actually is. Any body-blockable M1 killer falls into this category.
My mistake, I should've realized that, and especially in a tournament titled thread, that the survivor sided comment was referring to SWF tourny survivors.
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@Lovez600 said:
DBD is not Balanced at all. It is survivor sided. rules like only one medkit, and such must be put in place to make the game somwhat balanced.
Its not the tournaments fault the game isnt balanced.
A lot of the commentors on here were saying "restrictions on survivors so more killers are used" and you somehow turned it into the rules are in place because it's survivor sided? I don't get that.
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You know, Nurse is supposed to be "Very Hard" but every single Nurse that I have been against has been professional blinkers. I've had 1-2 nurses that I've been able to escape from out of 512 hours of survivor in this game. Do new Nurses not exist anymore or is she not as "Very Hard" as it describes? She seems hard as hell for me to play for sure.
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@InvadeGames said:
Of course stuff like this is anecdotal and 90% of this forum disagrees but im very confident in my position.
For example I was playing a match just now on dead dawg saloon(as doctor) with distressing, huntress lullaby, unnerving presence, and overcharge so a very oppressive skill check based build particularly on smaller maps. I figured this would be a very solid game as I can pull this off real well on larger maps usually by being able to slow the game down immensely by the time you hit 2 gens left.
SO i spawn by saloon and do my normal routine on this map by immediately taking down the troublesome doors on saloon and shack as those are guaranteed loop spots for later.
I then head for a gen and find Mikaela by the 2 story building on the side of the map(not the saloon) i chase her around the building 2x with her running up the stairs and off the ledge before i decide this is loop is too strong too waste time on. I switch off to a feng nearby. I have a pretty easy chase and down, getting her within 20-30 seconds. i hook her. the 4th gen pops on the first hook. Extremely surprised as I(no exaggeration) had been in this match for 3 MAYBE 4 minutes and have had far worse starts than this. of course i get frustrated right away but decided id just see if i can pull of some major underdog win(i consider 2k and above a win for myself)
immediately after the hook i spot a david running 20 feet away and i run to hit him then double back for hook as i spotted a Mikaela in the area as well and knew david was taking me away from hook so they could get save. as im going back to hook(from like 50 feet away) 5th gen pops and unhook happens. I now have 1 hook in 4 mins of gameplay and all gens are done. clearly if i want to get anything done i have one obvious target, the injured feng right in front of me, i eat her dead hard, down her and hook her for hook number 2 for the 4 minutes match. exit gate has now been opened. So now im just like whatever and let them save and exit the game.
So at MOST 5 minutes elapsed.
Then post game chat feng blames me for "tunneling" and saying thats why i lost the game.
Ok No, absolutely not. 4 gens were done by hook 1 and by the time you were unhooked all 5 were done. I didnt "ignore everyone else to get you out the game as quickly as possible" and you consisted a mere 50% of the hits in the game that lasted 5 minutes. What do you have expected me to do at that point? not gone for the only play I had?
And while this is just ONE game, its similar to how survivors act in so many other matches and what ive seen in videos of other matches. you were last one hooked, 30 seconds later run into the path of the killer and then get mad that he doesnt ignore you to go find some other person.
It does not make sense these asinine expectations that are placed upon people and then get shamed for things that dont even happen.
I play in NA servers so me experience is only for matches in NA so perhaps demographics are different elsewhere but from my experience of many, many matches as survivors, camping and tunneling are NEARLY nonexistent. they happen so rarely its a non issue. and from having experience playing both roles i can tell when im being "tunneled or camped" or if its because I or my team mate played in such a way that provided a rational opportunity to arise in which you take out the survivor in front of you. Especially when you risk a match being over before you even have a chance to actually PLAY the match.
Now i will concede that most of my matches arent that ridiculously short so is a bit on the extreme side and i am not one who thinks gen slowdown builds are required(i dont use more than 1-2 in builds if any) but survs, check your entitlement and stop complaining about things that dont happen. thanks.
You may now proceed to shame me for not believing your complaints.
Somethings I would like clarified in this. You said you chased a Mik for about 2 loops and then a Feng. Then you said 4 gens were done by the time you hooked the feng. Somehow this doesn't make sense. Few scenarios that I can think of that may be possible.
1) Cheaters.
2) All survivors carrying Gen perks + toolbox + bnp.
3) Two survivors coop on gens with toolboxes + bnp
Your description of the events aren't detailed enough. If you were toggled chase between 2 survivors, how did 4 gens pop at the same time? There are only 4 survivors in a match. You disrupted 1 survivor to chase so 3 gens, then gave up and went for another survivor so 2 1/2 gens. So, in 2 loops and 30s later, 4 gens are done? I would have to think that each survivor spawned separately and were working on their own gens while you were door bashing, all with gen perks and 4 toolboxes + bnp. I don't know. Maybe someone that is better with numbers can explain how this situation can unfold.
Your 2nd scenario is a little more sketch. You said immediately after you hook, you spot a David, you hit one time, go back to hook and 5th gen pops. That means 1 person did the last gen in seconds. With their toolbox already used up. The only thing that can explain this is cheats.
I know this is a thread about "tunneling" but your story is all sorts of weird.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298921#Comment_3298921
"I consider myself an average player but I still sit at a 70% loss ratio."
That's not average - of if that is average add me to your friends list and we will fix that.
How do you mean?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298568#Comment_3298568
-"The other day as a Freddy I was running Euduring, Sprit Fury, Hubris, and Deadlock. Deadlock did hardly anything, shoot I had two gens left and they were able to do those two gens at the same time."
This is no fault of your own but rather a design flaw with Deadlock. They added rollback protection for pallets so the least the devs could do is add rollback protection for deadlock. It should be the case that if you were able to finish gens at exactly the same time (becuse you were a robot or something) that the perk would activate and lock out the second generator via rollback.
That is the bare minimum expectation for fairness.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298591#Comment_3298591
"-You aren't going to go against very organized SWF often at all. "
This is false.
First let me say it is disingenuous to say a "very organized SWF". If by that you mean a comp level team like that of the streamer - Hens, then maybe.
It has always been the case that a veteran player can assemble a team with 3 bad to medium skilled players and steer them to victory. Let us consider for a moment that the killer's time is a 1:4 compression in that if he is afk 10 seconnds then the enemy team had 40 seconds collectively. If one person is hooked and 3 people leave their generator that can waste 2 players 20 of time seconds easily.
Avoiding this one time in a SWF by saying " I got the save" means your team just prevented 40 seconds of lost time. How many hooks are there in a normal game? Let's say there are 8 hooks.20 seconds *2 * 8= 320 seconds.
There is no way that a team of solo players will ever make up for the difference in lost time compared to a SWF considering just this one aspect. But we must realize that SWF is not just calling this one thing out. A decent SWF team calls out many things like what perks the killer is using, where the killer is going, if X pallet has been used/wall broken, and where a totem is located.. Sure they're not tournament ready but they save 4 minutes minimum per game by making call outs.
The solo players would only potentially have this info via aura reading perks. The SWF team gets the info without using perk slots. This is an advantage on the level of cheating (which is different than saying it is cheating).
I would say that 90% of my game have at least one organized team of two SWF players. I know this to be true by looking at their friends list.
"Even so, other commentors have already said that the win ratio for killers is 50% in tournaments."
Tournaments massively restrict survivors. Therefore why don't we restrict survivors in a team on coms with that rule set? Impose the rule : No character, perk , item , or offering may be repeated in a SWF group. Upon entering queue everything but your outfit becomes locked. Add a UI element so that when the team has not yet entered queue you can see the perks/itens+addons/offerings your allies want to bring.
There are plenty of heal perks : self care, CoH, inner healing, etc. There are plenty of gen rush perks : Prove Thyself, Fast Track, Hyperfocus, etc. There are plenty of exhaustion perks : DH, Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing, etc.
You're still playing with your friends but now you are slightly limited to reflect the massive efficiency bonus you get from voice coms. This would be good for the game because solo would have an advantage (4 players can all potentially bring the best items/perks). SWF would also have an advantage : efficient play via voice coms.
"Encountering those same players in SWF regular queue is going to be super rare."
When you win often you can actually get to the point where you queue with the same survivors and sometimes play against the same killer. You don't even have to take my personal experiences into account. You can see this has happened with Truetalent's stream where he queued by chance with one of Agony's team members twice in a single stream (three games in a row). You can see him play against the same strong SWF sometimes twice in a single stream (I have seen this event more often on CMWinter's stream).
-"Ban SWF"
Literally no one is asking for this. What you mean is : make SWF give the opposing side an edge to balance out the fact that you have voice coms.
An easy example : IF you play in a SWF give the killer 4 perks that he chooses ahead of time for each of his three loadouds. If he plays vs 4 solo players those perks do nothing. If he plays vs SWF then he gets his 4 normal perks and the 4 extra perks.
Now the killer has 8 perks to balance out the communication advantage. That would be a second way to balance SWF.
But what about solo queue players who were in a game with a 2 man SWF?
Give solo queue players 4 information perks chosen ahead of time that only activate if they are in a game featuring SWF. So they could select perks like :Alert, Bond, Empathy, Kindred and Rookie Spirit. They could not choose "dead hard" as one of their information perks.
I would love to play against SWF teams if I got to bring 8 perks. Why? Because when I play in a SWF I can easily convey the information worth somewhere between 12-16 perks. That's just not fair for a killer to play against.
This is false.
First let me say it is disingenuous to say a "very organized SWF". If by that you mean a comp level team like that of the streamer - Hens, then maybe.
It has always been the case that a veteran player can assemble a team with 3 bad to medium skilled players and steer them to victory. Let us consider for a moment that the killer's time is a 1:4 compression in that if he is afk 10 seconnds then the enemy team had 40 seconds collectively. If one person is hooked and 3 people leave their generator that can waste 2 players 20 of time seconds easily.
Avoiding this one time in a SWF by saying " I got the save" means your team just prevented 40 seconds of lost time. How many hooks are there in a normal game? Let's say there are 8 hooks.20 seconds *2 * 8= 320 seconds.
There is no way that a team of solo players will ever make up for the difference in lost time compared to a SWF considering just this one aspect. But we must realize that SWF is not just calling this one thing out. A decent SWF team calls out many things like what perks the killer is using, where the killer is going, if X pallet has been used/wall broken, and where a totem is located.. Sure they're not tournament ready but they save 4 minutes minimum per game by making call outs.
The solo players would only potentially have this info via aura reading perks. The SWF team gets the info without using perk slots. This is an advantage on the level of cheating (which is different than saying it is cheating).
I would say that 90% of my game have at least one organized team of two SWF players. I know this to be true by looking at their friends list.
Yes, I mean that of streamer level. By your example, I would consider that very organized as well. We have totally different experiences. I'm about 512 hours in this game and if I'm not SWF myself, then I rarely even see 3 people SWF, let alone 2. I can agree that a veteran can possibly lead 3 average players to a win but 3 bad players? I'm not so sure. "I'm going for the save" while they have already dropped gens will still waste time. Depending on killer perks as well, they may not even be able to continue the gen a la Deadmans Switch.
Maybe I need more hours in this game to experience what you are. I consider myself an average player but I still sit at a 70% loss ratio. Different experiences.
Also, to apply tournament style rules to all SWF's would be harsh. We can agree to tourny players try harder than normal players. Some SWf's just play just to hang out with each other.
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Why can't we just leave 3 second stun but have a Blurry effect for additional 3 seconds? Kind of like Clowns effect when he hits survivors with his booze? That would make the killer still be able to move but give survivors more of a distance to escape. Or make it so that they can't see scratch marks or hear sounds for an additional 3 seconds. Because lets be real here. A 3 second stun is pretty much nothing for Solo Q's. Killer's get back in chase immediately and then down the survivor.
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@Brimp said:
Doxxing and VPN can also be done by console players...
As well as cheats. Although more rare, they do have cheats available to them as well. It's just more of a pain to setup than it is PC.
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@BlueRose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298591#Comment_3298591
Did I say anything about any of that in my post? Yes, I know you don't go against an swf all the time but the comment that I was commenting on said you have to adapt. You cant as a killer adapt on the fly against an swf, shoot sometimes you dont even know it's a swf till its to late. The only real way to adapt as killer for a swf is to think every match is going to be against a swf and run the best killer with the best addons and meta perks. That is the only way to "adapt" to swf. So you can't just tell a killer to adapt to an swf that was the main point in my post and clearly it went right over your head.
Went over my head because I ignored something simply as you stated? Agressive much? Adapt by playing to the meta or something that gives you a better chance at winning? If your whole point is to win win win then why don't you use tactics that's already favored to killers such as meta, tunnel, slug?
Inb4 "But survivors will complain about slugging/tunneling/camping", this isn't a survivor complaining about meta thread.
No one can force you how to play. If your goal is to have fun then do what makes it fun for you, if your goal is to win then do what makes it best for you to win? If you don't want to take a chance at the very rare occurrence of being dominated by a full SWF then play to the best method of winning.