Why is OTR and DS disabled during end game?!
What’s the point in this if the Killer goes for the unhooked person? He can literally do nothing about it and gets hooked again while the teammates can only unhook him and he gets hooked again. I hope the devs are gonna change it quickly since this feels so annoying that you can’t do anything about it if the Killer goes for you again.
What are your thoughts about it?
Comments
Perfectly fair they are deactivated in the end game. As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, it gives weight to Borrowed Time still having a niche. On top of that, survivors have each other, items, and other altruistic perks that can still make end game saves possible. It's not just guaranteed 'because perk'.
That is respect right there. I only use my posts as an excuse to put up Q&A's about what I do in dbd or anything else. It's fun! :>
Those chances are as "free" as the 5 gens that killers are supposed to defend in order to prevent a 4-survivor-escape.
Whether it is or not, it is the principle that it is possible to not use it successfully.
While that is true, very few people actually failed the skill-check in practice, at least in the matches that i saw
Principle is important, but practical results are more important
Only killer is allowed to have comeback mechanics.
Not exactly. You can't say something is a guarantee when there is still a chance at failure, it doesn't work that way.
i never said the perk is a guarantee, other people have, but i haven't
I do have to say I had a Mikaela once fail the skill check next to a gate and it felt good to get a kill after that. Still was unfair though.
i mean staying next to a hook i.e camp is what happens in end game. Going after the same survivor i.e tunnel vision also happens in end game. I don't understand how anything changes here.
Decisive strike was not really the perk that grants free escapes in the game. DS could be countered by hooking away from exit gate and slugging. the perk that grants free escapes in the end game was borrow time. The main problem is that the killers that have access to an instant down or fast attack recovery can just keep going after the unhooker and just trade endlessly until the killer fulfills a kill from 3 hook kill condition. Vs normal m1 killers like wraith for example, you can just bodyblock wraith and unhook with borrow time to get a free escape with 4 survivors alive.
All DS change encourages is survivors to leave their teammates on the hook in the end game because there is no point in going for the hook save against killers that are overly effective at hooking camp. Pretty much just gives killer free pity kills like Sluzzy and @Aven_Fallen says.
But you don't debate Sluzzy you throw out very one sided veiws and attack anyone with insults or just rude behavior if they don't have your own views. Your posts are kown to start us vs them arguments that don't help anyone at all.
To be fair, there's really nothing else to do during the end game than camp a hook. Guarding exit gates is pointless, they're too fast unless you have No Way Out.
Cause the game is now entirely killer sides even though things shouldnt be any sided at all.
At that point survivor deserves to escape but if not then noed should also be removed no more free kills either I've seen too many times bad killers winning only because of it. It's not either good for their mmr going up falsely thinking they are good.
True I have played about 20 games since update and 2 games went to endgame both of them on wraith thought.
Yes, I know this. But having nothing else to do does not mean that the Killer deserves a Killer, just because it is Endgame.
It went from being a guaranteed escape to being a guaranteed kill for the killer.
They really couldn't have found a middle ground.
Because killers will cry if they don't get their last kill by tunneling that person off hook. Just wait, they'll cry for BT to get the same treatment, and I won't be surprised when the devs just agree.
Killers definitely needed some of these buffs. But some of these nerfs we're just really bad pandering to killers.
Last patch the best way to avoid dying from being the last person chased was to run DS, Unbreakable. Now the best way to avoid be the free killer kill is to run hope and adrenaline. Thank me later.
It’s not a guaranteed kill, though.
It literally is. You can tunnel or hit someone off hook and immediately down and put them back on the hook for free.
The only thing that stops this is BT, but even then, one endurance hit means nothing now when every killer is a nurse, blight, or some anti-loop killer who ignores pallets.
Killers should be the power role and should be stronger than survivors but I think the Devs did a bit too much to do that sadly. Alot of the changes were needed yes but not to some of the extremes that they did tbh.
Other survivors body blocking, Styptic Agent, sabo plays, flashlight saves, Breakdown, Breakout.. sure there’s more but too lazy to think about it right now. Unless you need me to.
Isn't by that logic correct to say that on endgame camping is not a guaranteed kill as the killer has the possibility to hit a wall or hit the hooked survivor and they could escape?
Also addind to it, idk if I have the reflexes of a fish (they kinda fast tho) because I have never failed the DS skillcheck, its not even something to worry about, you know you will just use it, you don't even think about it.
I don't think it was pandering per say because in a game like this the 1 should be more powerful than the 4 but what the Devs did was try to put that role right but they just went a bit overboard just a wee bit
DS should still work In EGC If you are able to keep it that long you deserve to use it!
Survivors never “deserve” a escape, just as killers don’t deserve kills
NOED also got nerfed,and even then, Small Game exists
and also MMR doesn’t exist, anyone who says otherwise is a controlled operative peddling deception and attempting to sell you snake oil
Because it sucks out loud when there's an unhook in the end game and even it you try to go after someone else, but the unhooked draws aggro and/or bodyblocks knowing that if they get downed it's still a guaranteed out. It's cheap af.
Yeah, once the gates are powered the tunneling and camping rules are out the window, and everyone should just assume as much. Especially if the whole team is alive and the killer is trying to secure at least one kill.
If I get hooked in the EGC, unless multiple other survs are still alive and I am hooked right next to the gate, I expect to die, and that seems fair to me.
Literally all of those methods only happen in a stacked SWF.
Solo queue never experiences that level of altruism, and even in a SWF you can easily brute force through OTR/DS if you're playing a strong killer and have STBFL, etc.
I've played 20-30 games today with a SWF, not a single 4 man escape has happened, someone always dies in the end game.
It works not just perfectly killer I play lot I get good survivors but with killers I play rarely I get bad survivors.
I think that’s quite an exaggeration to say it isn’t possible in solo queue. Unlikely sure, but can happen. Would be nice if BHVR would wise up and show all survivors each other’s builds pre-game already, like in DbD Mobile.
I’ve only played maybe five or less games in four-man SWFs since the update, but there were at least two four man escapes. And survivors are not entitled to always get out, even in a full SWF. One death is not bad at all.
Why does it matter? at that point the game was about to end anyways
I find it funny people think DS escapes let them escape via one perk. So DS kept them alive through 5 gens? By that rational NOED can be described the same killer gets free kills, difference is if survivor is alive at end game they actually managed to stay alive, the killer doesnt have to do anything to make it to end game and can still get free down with NOED. In fact some killers AFK until end game to use NOED lol
Exactly I deserve a kill after playing poorly all game /s
Since DBD is a competitive game now that doesn’t care about fun, when is the first tournament where we can win some money BHVR?
" but also further solidify the mindset a lot of people have that, just because the generators were completed, they were therefore entitled to get an escape (which completely ignores away the fact that the game is not over at that stage,"
@Mister_xD
Great logic, please also spread this among killer mains who think just because they killed three survivors and stopped the gens they are entitled to a 4k. And hatch is a 'free' escape.
I have spoken out against exactly this mindset on numerous occasions already.
A 4k is a neat thing to get, but it is not the goal nor should it be an expected outcome. A 3k is a complete Killer victory, slugging for the 4k is just unnecessary and boring for everyone involved - including the Killer.
So you're saying that was a lie?
The point is that if those perks worked in end game the survivor was unkillable. I've had survivors get unhooked, run into the gates, and teabag furiously because they knew they were quite literally invincible and there wasn't a thing I could do about it.
End game is a lawless land son.
imagine if we said this about other perks during endgame collapse...
"NOED is a guaranteed down during endgame..."
"Rancor is a free kill during endgame..."
Why, after all these years, do you keep pushing this lie that powered gates = killer loss?
To get the devs desired outcome of 2 escapes and 2 kills, the gates HAVE TO BE POWERED.
Which means all 5 gens being done is INTENDED.
They counter tunneling
There is no tunneling in the end game
Simple
As much as I agree that these perks would make it so the killer can't do much to get the survivor is coming off the hook again. I have a feeling this is just eventually going to develop into the NOED situation.
"well he's gonna kill someone no matter what I do, I would have to get lucky that he makes a mistake to safely get the person on the hook out without trading AND I create a risk that he could potentially kill 2 people instead so we should all just leave and let him have the kill."
I'm seeing it very frequently in end games now that survivors who try to go for the saves just end up giving me even more kills and the teams that perform the best are always the ones that just leave their teammates to die instead, and that's been my personal experience playing survivor too, it's just the safer play.
I doubt that's an issue that should be solved with perk changes, though. Remove hook grabs. Give more killers powers restrictions around hooks like the artist. Make it so saving the survivor is actually viable.
What exactly is a killer supposed to do if 4 survivors are alive, 1 is on hook, and the gates are 99'd. are they just supposed to let all the survivors escape at that point? Its a 1v4 game, if the game is a DRAW it would be expected that 2 of the survivors die.
Because of toxic survivors who would abuse it to mock the killer like they did before the patch, without anything the killer could do.
My goodness😯
It's funny to me that this happened as many killers argued that 'survivors would get a free escape': now if the killer's camp whilst the gates are powered, it's a 'free kill'. The definition of 'fighting fire, with fire'. 😂
what do you think happens right now with current wraith with your current situation described?
the 3 survivor can rush the hook against wraith. If he hits anyone, his default hit recovery allows survivors to complete an unhook, than its simply a matter of walking in straight line along the exit gate with healthy survivors being in the back and injured survivors being in the front.
the 4 overpowered the 1. The one being wraith in this case. If all 4 survivors are alive, you have clearly failed to play killer successfully throughout the entire match. Your suppose to lose as killer in this situation because survivors are supposed to be in the advantage.
If the 4 survivors are not stronger than the one, i.e unable to save the survivor on hook, than the killer just get free kills and the survivor has incentive to leave their teammates behind.
Not every game is suppose to be a draw. your suppose win some games and lose some games with the average being that two people die and two people escape. for example, if you play 10 games, 5 games you win with 3-4k and 5 games you lose with 3-4 survivors escaping.
with current system, your essentially asking to never lose as killer. your asking for 5 games to be 3-4k's and every game that you would lose to be 2 kills hence you get ~70% kill-rate. with statistic like that, you will give the dev a false impression that killer is over-performing hence most killers that come out end up having lackluster powers as consequence of dev balancing through raw empirical kill-rate instead of killer game-play -i.e the killer feels good to play.
Unhook and bodyblock that is what your team should do and you can get out. Before it was just stupid the killer could do nothing, now both sides have a chance in that scenario.