Should Jumping in to Locker Deactivate DS or not?
Question on title.
So i am seeing some people don't like this and they want this remove from DS. What do you think? Locker play should stay or go?
Well... For me it is fair. Survivor is not doing any objective in locker, so there is not reason to make DS deactivate. And killer has to eat DS early or leave. It punishes killer for tunnel. And plus you can bait killer without having DS (high risk).
Comments
Nothing should be deactivating it. It is a survivor perk, not a killer perk.
If a killer is hard tunneling it is difficult to get to a locker regardless. Sure you can easily get there with BT but you'll soon be booted out of the locker if so. It's fine.
Another fun fact: that survivor can get healed from that perk, then get grabbed out of the locker - nullifying the heal. So that is a risk they run. As well as a cleansed totem from the match, meaning one less possible area for booning.
So you shouldn’t complain about that perk combo.
"As survivors say about killer stuff, this is clearly an exploit. Not intended ;)"
Actually it's entirely intended. On the developer stream where the DS changes were revealed, locker DS was talked about briefly, and the devs said that they felt no need to remove jumping into a locker to force DS after the nerfs they'd already given the perk, but if it remained problematic they would reconsider this stance. It has not continued to be problematic, and so this stance has not needed to be changed.
the only reason i hate it is because people fake having DS, but i hate it in a funny way.
id rather they just get rid of locker saves
I'm so glad that there is an obsession every match as this allows survivors to fake having DS. It was horrible before because if no one used an obsession based perk, there would be no obsession and thus tunneling would be encouraged. Glad that's a thing of the past.
Also I agree with getting rid of locker flash saves. Easiest solution to that issue.
You know. I came in here expected someone to be complaining about ds or something. Im glad i was wrong. No locker play is fine. 60 seconds of doing nothing is fine.
I think it was stupid before the change, as going to someone working on a gen just for them to hop in a nearby locker was silly.
Now? It's fine.
I trap them in the locker with trapper.
Absolutely not.
No
Yes
It’s shouldn’t deactivate in the endgame, or when a killer like bubba gets both of you with one sweep and pick the other person up hooks them and you 2 seconds after. And no it shouldn’t work twice in a game. It needs a bigger skill check tho
It was stupid before the nerf but it’s fine now.
Hopping in a locker isn't progressing the game and the survivor is useless to the team when they hide in the locker so it shouldn't deactivate DS.
Sure jumping into a locker can deactivate DS... if slugging a survivor pauses the DS timer. 😉
Before the nerf, I would've said yes, deactivate DS on lockers, but now that it's balanced, it's perfectly fine imo
Wow, that's evil, lol
Actually. The majority of my DS's tend to come from someone that happened to cross my path like 48 seconds later, and I confused the Mikaela in the red shirt for the Meg in the red shirt, and didn't realize it was still i the same minute as my last unhook after the flashbang went off and the Tinkerer is getting loud, and the crowd just landed, and okay that guy has a flashlight and -
RANDOM REDHEAD IN REDSHIRT!
Many people seem to forget that locker spawns on most maps can be directly next to gens, forcing killers into a lose-lose situation if a survivor with an active DS hops into locker near a gen that is 99'ed.
"But now you can guard the gen and the survivor at the same time..."
First off, having the optimal play be standing in place for 60 seconds is un-interactive and stupid. Secondly, the moment the other survivors realise that the killer is waiting next to the gen they'll simply begin repairing the other gens.
If the killer leaves to stop them, the survivor with DS will exit the locker, wait until the killer commits to leaving, then begin repairs. If the killer stays, then up to 60 seconds of repairs can be made to all other gens.
DC staying active while inside a locker is completely broken. Because the survivor doesn't have to be tunnelled at all to get value out of the perk.
only If pop deactivated if the killer hit someone also
If we think of the edge case scenario of course we can make any argument sound logical. However in over 3 years since the initial DS rework (March 2019) I don't think I've ever been in, nor seen anyone else in, that situation. Or one at all similar to it.
The fact that it doesn't happen often is no excuse. Why should a situation that saps the killer of any control, regardless of how they performed, be possible in the first place?
But if the scenario I proposed was too fringe for you, then allow me to mention several others that are far more common. Each having the exact same problem of the killer being punished even if they don't tunnel. Survivors can still have DS active when they:
No matter how you slice it DS is a perk that allows the survivor to actively punish the killer for doing their job. The fact that it is designed to counter tunnelling is irrelevant when it can still be so rampantly abused if the killer doesn't tunnel at all.
Ideally, the game should be changed so killers no longer have to tunnel, slug and camp just to have a chance of winning against competent survivors. But until that happens, (if there's even a chance of it happening), DS in its current state is incredibly unhealthy for the game. And being able to use it after jumping inside a locker is the least of its problems.
Yes, it’s better if survs start the game hooked to help killers
Care to actually add to the conversation or just be unhelpfully sarcastic?
You're not losing that gen because there's an active DS in a locker. You're losing it because it's 99'd and you don't have a perk to regress it.
Regressing the gen wouldn't solve the problem in this scenario. The survivor in the locker will still be completely untouchable until they start repairing. Forcing the killer to knowingly leave a survivor directly next to a gen, waiting for 60 seconds, or eating a 5 second stun and losing the survivor are all bad options no matter how many regression perks the killer has.
Hey, you forgot the other option.. the elephant in the room. Go for the unhooker, or another survivor. There are up to three others at any time.
I already went over this. If you went for a different survivor then you'd be leaving the survivor in the locker and allowing them to easily repair the gen. There's just no good option here.
If you allowed a gen to get to 99% with a survivor with active DS nearby, it’s on you. You have Ruin, Undying, Pain Resonance, Tinkerer, Pop Goes The Weasel, and I’m not even going to list the rest gen defense perks.
So according to you killers are just expected to just, stop gens from ever being 99'ed? In a real game where both sides know what they're doing this is nigh impossible. No amount of regression and stall perks will stop this. Not only that, but there's 0 reasons why a survivor with DS active wouldn't run towards the gen with the most progress the moment they're unhooked. They are, after all, completely unpunishable until they commit to a repair. So do you expect the killer to stop this from happening to?
Damaging generators was added back in what, 2017? So yeah, there’s no real reason a gen should be left 99 by a killer, when they have the option to regress it (regardless of perk selection).
Again, you have up to three other survivors to go for, besides the recently unhooked one. Why are you not immediately going for one of them and patrolling gens, after hooking a survivor?
No, I think that's a totally fair move.
Gen regression has been weak since its addition. It takes just over a second for a killer to kick a gen, 320 seconds for the gen to fully regress, and a mere touch from a survivor to stop it from regressing. Gen regression does not stop gens from being 99'ed in the slightest.
And once again, you're ignoring my point completely. In the scenario I presented, leaving the survivor is an option, but it is a bad one because they'll finish the gen that they're waiting next to. Waiting out the DS timer or eating the stun are also bad options. Because that's the point I'm trying to make; There is no good option for the killer to take. No matter what they do they'll be punished for it.
Saying that "You should just go for the other survivors" isn't addressing my point.
I advocate for a 5% base damage when kicking a generator, but that’s not the point of this post.
You don’t seem to be understanding what I’m saying. You hook a survivor, you go patrol that 99 gen right away. You don’t wait until a hooked survivor who you suspect (and don’t know) may have DS is unhooked, and given time to traverse to the area. You immediately begin applying pressure to that gen and other survivors. And you’re going to lose at least some gens as killer in a regular match; it’s simply a reality for any killer player. Survivors wouldn’t play the game if they couldn’t ever repair generators.
The way you’re talking about it is as if that survivor is the only one who can repair that gen after they are unhooked, when that’s obviously not the case. So go regress and protect it while they’re hooked, or start putting pressure elsewhere.
And if, for whatever reason, that mere moments after a survivor is hooked they're saved and begin running towards that 99'ed gen. What then? How are you going to defend that gen against a survivor that you can't punish?
How are you supposed to out-pressure survivors when everyone is working on gens and can easily repair them far quicker than you can get downs? Mathematically speaking, even if every chase lasted no more than 20 seconds, and after every hook you kicked a gen with PGTW, and survivors took the time to heal each other after every hook, you physically can't stop all 5 gens from being completed.
I don't know what are you trying defend. You are talking about a case maybe never will happen. And you wanna destroy DS for this. What?
And plus killes have perks for defend generators. Use them, CoB and Pop are good combo for regression.
Kick this 99'ed generator. Now it can not finish instantly.
The only thing I can understand from reading this is that I understand none of it.
You did let them 99 gen?
You chased unhooked survivor?
You did not use regression perks like Pop and CoB?
You did let survivor enter the locker?
You did not pressure on other survivors?
And you are blaming DS for your mistakes. Clear?
Yes, but that's down to the gen being at 99% and you not having a gen regression or block perk. DS is a non-factor here.
Imagine the same scenario but without DS. What's stopping any of the other survivors from running up to the gen the moment you pluck the survivor out of the locker and finishing the gen before you even have control of your character again?
This is an absolute worst case scenario, and the only condition you have for calling this a lose-lose set-up for the killer is that the winning play here, that keeps both the gen from popping AND the survivor from escaping/triggering DS, is boring.
But boring =/= losing.
Nah. If a survivor wants to be cheeky and wait it out, that's on them.
They're wasting their time.
In addition, many newer players want to use the locker to hide from a potential tunneler and suppress their grunts of pain.
We don't want to punish the lower end survivors that are trying to escape being tunneled so that we can somewhat hinder the slightly annoying survivors at higher ranks that do so blatantly.