How would you change NOED?
Personally, I think it could be reworked into something more fun for both killers and survivors.
It could be something like No Way Out, based on tokens, gained by hooking a survivor for the first time. The exposed status would only apply after the 4th stack. The 2nd stack could grant the speed boost. The 3rd could extend the time it takes to open the gate (like Remember me, without the hitting the obsession part). And maybe apply the exposed status only to survivors outside an 8m or 10m radius of a hooked survivor. It would be fun if it also granted a mori to survivors in the last hook stage.
Comments
I think Noed is like at the verg bottom of the list of things that need changes. A lot of killers are laughably at the bottom that Noed is necessary. Everything else has to be addressed first and changes made to killers like Legion, Twins, Myers, Deathslinger, etc.
Don't ask how and why it should be changed but ask why Noed is necessary in the first place.
Remove the speed boost and make the Exposed status effect work in a manner that is consistent with the way that status effects are supposed to work (ie. inform the survivors that they are Exposed when the perk activates, not when somebody takes a hit).
No. This nerfs NoED into the dirt, as now Killers can't chase as well, and Survivors know not to save their friends before the Killer actually hits anyone.
Your idea is basically 'Make NoED worthless'.
You shouldn’t get noed from camping someone at the beginning that’s bs
You're right.
Because you can do this wacky thing called 'CLEANSE TOTEMS' while I am camping. Crazy, huh?
Survivors expecting the game to just hand them the win, at this point. No camping, no slugging, no tunneling. NoED needs changing so 'camping Killers' can't benefit...but it has to be something that nerfs NoED, so Survivors don't have to do bones. Because expecting them to stop licking Generators is too much!
Just. do. Bones. Stop sniveling that you can turn a perk off, but don't want too, then blaming the Killer for your lazyness. The end.
Wow, that made my jaw drop.
I honestly think NOED is probably fine since SWF can remove it and save the person with borrowed time.
Gen regression is way more OP than NOED.
Don’t even start I just played a game against a face camping bubba. Guess what everyone says to do. “Do gens” we did and guess what happened. NOED. He hooked some by the gate. And then what? Blood warden. I run detectives hunch for noed but you don’t have time to do bones when someone is camping. “Laziness” yeah sure but camping someone at 5 gens isn’t lazy? So what is it? Do bones or do gens because can’t do both when someone is camping at the start. I play both sides I was red rank for both killer and survivor and I manage with demo so far. I don’t care about losing or winning but that was a horrible match.
Think about it tho, NOED is complained about because it "gives free kills", why does it give free kills? Because survivors dont do bones, why dont survivors do bones? Because its not a guarantee NOED is in play, meaning its possible for them to cleanse all 5 Totems and in the end it being a waste of time.
Make it base kit and survivors are well aware of what they can prevent. And it becomes their choice if they want to cleanse it to prevent the consequences.
Good for you? What do you want? A medal?
You can do both, because it gets done all the time.
Always amuses me when someone goes 'I play both sides, and Killers should totally get kicked in the balls because I don't like camping!'
99% of the time, the person saying it is a Survivor main trying to pretend he plays Killer so his suggestion sounds more valid.
NoED is fine. If you can't do bones and gens; the Killer clearly out-played you, camping or not. You don't get to decide what play should be punished or rewarded based on what you think is 'fair' or 'unfair'.
Base kit? Idk.
Against a good killer you never have time to cleanse all the totems, you barely and are very lucky to get the gens done. NOED might get one free down but then everyone frantically finds and cleanses it.
If it was basekit that would be five perks for killer. Killers would put on No Way Out instead. That would be very horrid to see all the time.
Well how does this make sense? No totems get done in solo Q so nothing would change. Also, what is gen rushing? You mean doing the literal only objective you have as a survivor?
TBF; 'gen rushing' is the Killer equivalent of 'camping/tunneling'. :P
It's either side complaining the other is doing their objective.
Informs survivors it is in play as soon as the gens are completed, not when someone is first hit. That is all it needs.
I was mostly using it for comedic purposes.
In all honesty, Solo's do totems. The issue is that they can only do 2-3 most times.
Built-in
I would argue that camping(not tunneling) is against your objective as a killer. Tunneling, I get, though it's an unfortunate part of the game mechanics because a killer just gets to decide if someone gets to play the game or not. I try to get tunneled every game. I love running from the killer rather than holding m1 and pressing space every now and then. Camping however just makes the game boring for everyone and goes against the killer's objective. Again, I think tunneling is valid and just an unfortunate by product of the game mechanics, but camping is not. Other than that, I agree with you. Just that camping is not an objective for killers.
Depends on how you define camping, and that's the crux; I've hooked Survivors, turned, and seen 2 more Survivors hiding nearby. They stay near the hook and try to unhook while I'm 3 feet away, and their chases are around the hook instead of leading me away. Or 1 person tries to lead me away, but I saw Survivor #2 hiding nearby, and they keep tagging out; no matter who I chase, someone else is openly approaching the hook.
Guess what they called me at the end of the match? 'Camper'. Like, I'm supposed to let them unhook because they demand it? Am I supposed to chase #1 Survivor when I can see Survivor #2 near the hook? That's 3 Survivors not doing gens (Hooked and 2 overly-altruistic friends). Why should I leave the hook?
And THAT is what 99% of Survivors call 'camping', when it's really 'Survivors playing like trash'.
I wouldn't. If anything I'd make it even stronger. Killers need at least 1 really feared perk.
Wrong. Gen rushing is when survivors all bring in strong gen add-ons, and power through 4 gens in 3 minutes. Basically where they ignore chases, or unhooking a fellow survivor to finish the gen .
Gen rushing is a thing. People throw it around to much but it you know it's a gen rushed map when it ends in less than 5 minutes and the 1 hook you got is ignored into second stage bc gens are priority.
Oh they have time to look for the bones... I've had matches where 3-4 totems were lit up the same time and when i found 1 another one was put up. Survivors have time when it helps them but when sometimes goes sideways and they go down the waterworks start.
I don't even use NOED but i dont understand this obsession about nerfing it. Its being proven time and time again you have time and will to do the bones when it helps YOU so why cant you just deal with NOED if it activates.
Survivors want to make this game even easier for them im assuming. I personally would like if this game is harder as a survivor. I would actually like to be scared of the killer instead of thinking they are my plaything which is mostly the case in this game.
The only thing I'd change is reveal the exposed once it lights, rather than the first time someone's hit.
NOED is balanced. It can be countered extremely easily, has multiple perks that counter it even harder, and in most cases will give you one extra kill at best, which you probably would have gotten anyway if you had played the game with 4 perks instead of three.
People think it’s overpowered because when they mess up and feed into it, the killer is rewarded with more kills, but that’s not a perk problem, it’s a player skill problem.
Oh yeah idc about noed because I run detectives hunch. The only problem I have is that a bubba can face camp and you don’t have time to do bones. It doesn’t need a nerf it’s fine. And yes buff killers
Well with facecampers the same rule applies. Do gens get the f out of there. Luckily in my case i rarely see facecampers. Nothing you can do about it eather. If that gamestyle is fun for them..hey more power to them i'll just move onto the next match.
They have time to do bones because the boon effects give them that extra time.
And even then, they're not doing all five.
The issue with NOED is in two parts:
1: Its counterplay is supposed to happen before it's declared, making it an investment risk. NOED is the best slowdown perk in the game as long as you don't equip it.
2: The all-or-nothing approach creates incredibly unfair situations that hurts solos far more than swiffers, and can even make the 'counterplay' a considerable risk.
I'd solve this by making NOED
1: baseline. It's always on, meaning investing in countering it is always a good idea.
2: scale with the number of remaining totems. This way, if you don't bother at all, you truly get punished, but if you get 4/5, you don't get insta-smacked as 'punishment for not doing bones'.
Of course, this'd need to come packaged with deletion of hook camping, but I think that goes without saying. Camping is the lodestone to pretty much all balance issues.
Yeah it’s fun for them but not for anyone else. Especially the unfortunate one to get on the hook. You know Scott kind made an idea of killers choosing which map they can avoid which is cool. Well it I had a choice to exclude one killer it would be bubba. Lol give me blights and nurses at least they are fun to face they are cool.
I'd probably exclude trickster. Seen too many of them lately and honest i find them way more less fun to go against. All i get is daggers in my arse.
He is was an honorable mention for me along with wraith, hag and ghost face (not because I hate him just to many games against them). Tricksters are fine to face but knife spam in a dead zone is annoying. Especially since they like using endgame builds
I mean, if ur that desperate to wonder if bones are done or not, small game exists
Jealous. I never see ghostfaces. Have to play him myself to see him in game. Well he is my main..or was until boonies came. Now im a proud plague /crowmama mainer.
I would remove the Hex part, so it's a normal perk. After that, I have 2 ideas.
Make it light up all remaining dulls into hexes
1 is the speedboost increase
And every other one is to give exposed to any survivor that didn't cleanse a totem that round.
Only the survivor that is affected by the hex can cleanse it. Simular to how plaything is blocked for everyone but the affected player for a while. The speedboost one can't be cleansed untill it's the last remaining totem.
Still punishes people who don't do bones. But cleansing a single one ensures you don't get screwed over.
If you did your part you won't get punished
I really like this idea the most. I hate cleansing 4 totems in solo q and thinking "someone must have cleansed the other one" and surprise, they did not so doing 4 totems was useless.
NOED is in a good state and its your gamble if you will rush out or do bones.
Doing bones buys killer time, rushing gens gives killer a second chance.
Nerfing noed is just supporting laziness of being a survivor
I hate that too, what I don't understand is why you want to change the perk instead of the lazy behavior of your teammates.
I think if NOED is nerfed, you'll see a lot less totems being done by survivors, when what is really needed is a mindset throughout the community that totems are there to be cleaned/blessed.
If I'm consistently the only one on my team doing gens, for example, and we all go down before I can fix all 5 by myself, I don't then state that the game should end at 3, or even let just me out. I recognize the issue is lazy teammates. Same with totems.
The reason the hatch exists and powers the exits is that prior to the hatch being in the game the last survivor would have no incentive to do anything but just hide in a dark corner since it’s almost impossible for a solo survivor to finish generators.
I’m not saying hatch is the only way to mitigate that problem, there are other solutions they could have hypothetically tried, but it is the way the devs opted to go.
I think with a killer like Nurse in the game, this would be way more broken than old moris, DS and keys.
Jesus, #########... christ... leave that overnerfed perk alone, it's already bad...
Perhaps it needs a buff
Why a waste? I added two extra effects, but I guess perhaps one of them could be something related to increase the difficult in cleansing it. This would be actually fun.
@tesla It is a waste due to multiple of reasons:
While it is a joke of a perk which was already nerfed twice... it still works, but this only, because survivors let it work. Same goes for looping, if killer is bad and unlucky a survivor with brain will loop them for 5 gens without an exhaustion perk. Just like killer should know when to drop the chase or mind game a little bit, the survivor should know how to counter a perk THEY CRY ABOUT FOR 5 YEARS NOW.
The only killer I actually find it worth running on except for the memes is Myers - People don't expect it on him, because he does have instadown already. If last gen pops and you have tier 3 99ed, you just save it for the time when totems gets broken. While Myers is terrible compared to the rest of a roster, it is somewhat useful if you broke most of the pallets during the trial.
Yeah, I guess a combination of an 8 stack STB + exhausted effect can be even stronger than exposed sometimes. Perhaps NOED is just fine as it is. You can't nerf it because it would be useless, and you can't buff it because people already complain about it as it is.
Personally I'm part of team NOED is fine how it is, but just to go along with the prompt of the post here, here's how I would change it if it getting changed was unavoidable:
Once the final generator has been completed, all dull totems remaining in the match become Hex totems. While any of these totems stands, all survivors are exposed. Any time a survivor is put into the dying state with a basic attack, one hex totem becomes a dull totem. When no hex totems are left standing, Hex: No One Escapes Death deactivates.
I think this is a pretty nice compromise on keeping the effect true to it's current power, while rewarding survivors for cleansing totems, even if they don't manage to cleanse every single on of them.
Each hook-stage grants a token up to 3/4/5 and when the generators are finished, NOED activates and each down costs 1 token, That way you actually have to work for NOED to activate, Idk if it being a hex perk anymore is good for the perk tbh