The Chatterer is the first LGBT+ Killer in DBD
In the lore of Hellraiser, the person that turned into the Cenobite Chatterer is LGBT+
Wow the representation finally happened through a legendary cosmetic of a character that wasn't created by Behavior. You love to see it?
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I think he wouldnt understand sexuality or gender identity but would understand man/woman and believe he is a woman while wearing one of those masks judging off how he seems to become a different person more or less while wearing them.
Ok and? Do you want representation or not because you seem to be complaining.
Not really. There's a difference between being born in the wrong body, and ripping off someone's face to become a caricature of them.
In Hellraiser lore, the cenobites were all originally human and then converted to "angels to some demons to others".
I don´t know if it´s appropriate to label transwomen/queer people "caricatures" of "real women".
Let´s just appreciate that DBD is making good progress in their quest to include many minorities in their game 💓
Sigh
Is there a reason for this response? I'm genuinely curious.
Did the devs ever say their 1st(written by BHVR) LGBT character was going to be playable or not? I'd feel cheated if they weren't playable.
I'm trans. And you might want to reread my comment. I was pointing out that bubba is not, in fact, trans rep. He is not really trans, genderfluid or otherwise, because there's simply not enough there. He puts on a horrific mask and becomes a characiture of a real person.
And he is directly based on someone that helped reinforce the demonisation of trans people, so theres also that.
Just that people seem to find absolutely any contrived reason that they can to complain.
BHVR got the license to Hellraiser, something I'm sure they've been wanting for a while. Chatterer is a famous and beloved character from that series, second only to Pinhead (or perhaps the heroine of the first two films). They wanted to add him so they did. I love Chatterer. I was thrilled.
This should be good news but STILL some people are finding reasons to be upset. I just don't get it. It's not a LGBT thing or anything like that to me. It's that this aspect of the character is being used to work backwards to the point of being angry at BHVR for something that isn't their fault. It isn't anyone's fault. There is no fault. No one did anything wrong. But let's be mad at them anyway.
Doesn't anyone else get sick of the perpetual complaining about absolutely EVERYTHING about this game?
I'm prepared for the shitstorm that's about to come out of this thread.
No, but it would be kind of... Insane, to say the least, to have anyone but a survivor be the first official LGBT+ rep. Killers... That's just not a good idea. And this game doesn't really have much in the way of NPC's, so I don't see them adding another one, let alone making them LGBT+ and throwing the doors wide open to "token character" controversy.
I just don't understand why this is coming up again in this particular situation. I understand the desire for LGBT characters but being angry that we got a character that can, depending one's point of view, be construed as LGBT but "not LGBT enough" because it's a monster that is no longer strictly what we consider gay is just total overkill to me.
Clive Barker is gay, people. The man who gave us this character and these stories is straight-up gay. He used to me a male prostitute and took some of the inspiration from this story by his experiences with gay customers. The story is about pansexual interdimensional creatures that exist to inflict inconceivable degrees of both pleasure and pain against anyone who opens the box, male or female. I mean, instead of being happy that we got cool characters from a cool story written by a cool person who also happens to be LGBT, we have to be angry that "not enough" has been done for LGBT representation? I would get that argument if BHVR positioned this chapter as being the answer to requests for such a thing. They didn't. They just wanted to add another classic horror franchise. Why are we looking for ways to pick that apart? Why can't we be happy to have more cool stuff?
I mean, I sit here and picture the people at BHVR saying "awesome, the fans have been waiting for this for a long time, they'll love this", only to be utterly perplexed when someone says "Nice job guys, You could only go half-gay. You ruin everything". I mean, what?
I think the problem is more about the fact that it's yet another overtly villainous character and people are sick of being associated with villains. Like it or not, cenobites are a clear case of "deviant = evil", one that actually affects people who enjoy BDSM way more than the LGBT+ community.
That's not BHVRS fault though. They don't own the rights to the character so the fact that people are getting mad at them is beyond me.
I didn't even think of it like that. Personally, I just assumed they were going to say one of the already playable characters were LGBT+ so people are already acclimated to the character.
I just feel like I'm going to be disappointed if I waited all this time for an original LGBT+ character & they aren't even playable, but I now understand why they can't just add them like that.
Do you mean that you feel some are upset at the idea that an evil character has been introduced to the game who also happens to be or have been LGBT? If that were the case I would understand the argument a little more, but that wasn't how it was phrased. Instead the complaint seems to be "we finally have our "first" LGBT character and it's a monster that BHVR didn't even create".
That said, it's also worth mentioning that the Cenobites are not seen as evil to everyone, they deliver what those who open the box are seeking. They just can't differentiate between pleasure and pain. That's the original story anyway, I don't know about the later films which I don't think Barker had anything to do with.
I guess my point is that yeah, your argument does make more sense, but what I'm taking from this thread is that the irritation is with BHVR for providing a character that's only LGBT from a certain perspective, and not anything that they themselves had to put original thought into, which bugs me because I don't feel that everything the company does should be judged by that metric.
BHVR didn't provide or do anything and the cenobites aren't even the first LGBT+ killers. BHVR just happened to get a second lisence that included LGBT+ characters.
It will certainly be an interesting experience to see the first official LGBT+ character.
I agree. BHVR deserved neither hate nor praise, because they did nothing either way.
What about the Trickster?
There isn't any confirmation on his sexuality. His lore doesn't bring up the topic at all so it's still unknown.
That's just it. BHVR made a choice based on the license, not representation. I'm fine with representation, I think it's safe to say that most players of this game would be fine if not ecstatic with what they consider to be representation. I just don't understand why so many of the company's decisions have to be judged by that criteria. They wanted Hellraiser, they got Hellraiser, then they gave us some extra stuff to go along with it. That's awesome. That's a good thing. I can see people complaining about the prices of the skins (as I have) but sexuality, gay or straight or anything in between, shouldn't be a part of the argument because it's incidental in this situation. They wanted Hellraiser because of its status as iconic horror, I doubt that they were thinking much deeper than that.
But yes, it WILL be interesting to see what happens when they do release the first official openly LGBT original character. Half the forum will be thrilled, the other half will be outraged. In other words it will be a typical day on the DBD forums.
Nope, David, Felix and Trapper are all LGBT+ and I don’t care what anyone else says, not even the Devs. My fantasy is my reality! Y’all ain’t going break my hopes and dreams!
Lol why Trapper?
The funniest thing is, that the outrage doesn't usually come from the side one might expect. As is apparent by this thread and the countless similar threads that have been closed, because people who are effectively on the same side couldn't stop bickering about what is enough and what defines as this or that.
It's almost like most groups of people aren't monolithic entities.
Almost.
I actually would be interested in knowing whether the community could reach a consensus of what constituted a reasonable, positive, acceptable (if not great) rendition of an LGBT character. Would they be female? Male? Trans? Non-binary? Would they be openly proud and wear their sexuality on their sleeve? Would their sexuality be a simple minor detail of their personal life? Would their story revolve around it? Would they be masculine? Effeminate?
So many variables, I know I'd hate to be the person responsible for getting this right.
1) DBD/BHVR chose the hellraiser licence, like they did for CryptTV, based on the franchise and not specifically for the LGBT+ characters involved.
2) Jackie is a trans woman and said that Bubba isn't trans. Imho she's quite knowledgeable on the whole subject (I'm not) + I trust her judgement since, you know, she's part of it.
His buns of steel.
He is a Cadillac of men.
Hey, here's a university dissertation on exactly what it matters!
https://twitter.com/theevilswithiin/status/1427724915306795012?s=19You can project any headcanon you want on these characters. They are not real and cannot make their own decisions.
Not like Dwight and Meg can jump in a locker together. It's a kill or be killed game. None of this matters when someone/something is trying to kill you.
Please refer to my previous comments giving a university dissertation on why it does actually matter
Been watching a youtube series where someone essentially narrates the Hellraiser comics
Would recommend it
What matters is, when are we getting the MANHUNT chapter? That's all that matters in DBD
The old manhunt games? Might have change the game rating.
Nah it'll be fine, not like DBD even has gore. And MANHUNT 2 was rated A because it's graphic realistic depictions of violence. DBD is about as realistic as lord of the rings.
Ah so you want to know why representation is important? Because it normalises and humanises traits of ourselves and allows people to accept themselves. Media plays a prevalent role in this; if you never see someone you can relate to you will inevitably begin to question if you are normal. These questions will be reaffirmed by the people around you, since anto-lgbt+ sentiment is still incredibly popular in the world despite what others claim. Representation is important and can allow people to change their beliefs to become more accepting of others.
How come it becomes so important? Ask that to the slurs, the bullies, the countries where it's illegal and carries penalties of death. Tell the people fighting for eqaul rights and representation- the people wanting to be portrayed and normal people- that they're pathetic for not wishing to be ostracised from society.
Your entire stance seems to be "people can be gay, just don't tell me".
Yeah it was a different time. Today it would be rated Teen or whatever the EU equivalent.
Pegi 16 I think
Is being straight something that makes you think you're not normal? Is being straight something people bully, discriminate or even kill you for?
Please keep the discussion civil and respectful, as we already asked.
Comments of a discriminatory nature won't be tolerated.
Seeing as how discriminated LGBT still is, I wouldn't say people wanting to be normalized is bad.
Stop making comparations to straight people, they don't work. You are just comparing something discriminated to something not discriminated.
It's not about self acceptance, but also the acceptance of others. In an ideal world we wouldn't need it, because people would be free to be themselves, but considering the history of oppression and the fact that it's still discriminated against today means that this is far from the ideal world. Representation isn't just to help people accept themselves but it has a noticable impact on society and can change things.
Forgetting about other characters!
Valuing the opinions of others is your first mistake. Societal Norms have and always will be shakey. This isn't a perfect world, but It could always be worse. In some places It is worse. Not everyone fits into the world the same way and that's just how we are as humans. We're flawed and hateful creatures, and that we always will be.
And why do you let what they say affect you? I get death threats too but that's over video games and nerds being nerds. You can't let people who hate you have a tight grip on your life.
"Valuing the opinions of others is your first mistake."
Oh I didn't realise that hearing people yell slurs at you often and having you get beaten for your sexuality was a pleasant experience. My bad for valuing the law in certain countries, and policies in others. I apologise for daring to think that maybe people shouldn't be murdered for who they love. Do forgive me for wanting the abhorrent treatment of lgbt+ people changed.
Nah nah nah we can play bingo in these threads with what we think will appear (im working on a bingo card unironically) and they can't take that away from us