Killers should get a bonus when going against SWF. The game has 2 sides to care for and balance.
Let me make this perfectly clear. Survive With Friends is not going anywhere, that is fine. Survive With Friends gives Survivors a massive advantage, this is not debatable. A good coordinated team of Survivors who are competent at the game, making the right calls, looping properly, running meta perks like Decisive, Iron Will, Borrowed Time, Exhaustion Perks, etc are an absolute nightmare to go against for any Killer not named Nurse, and maybe Spirit/Blight.
Survivors communicating verbally in real time basically have most information perks readily available to themselves at all times. They have access to Kindred, Bond, Aftercare, and so many others that it's not surprising they can run meta perks with no issues at all. This could also be argued to buff Solo Survivors.
This isn't changing, we all understand that. BUT this game has 2 sides, Killer AND Survivor. It just so happens that Killer is forced to be alone on their side (except Twins haw haw haw). So this is something that CAN change.
Killer shouldn't see SWF in the pre game lobby because obviously a LOT of people would start dodging teams of rainbow colored Neas with Keys and Flashlights. But when the Killer loads INTO the match, they can be given a handicap. Bonus movement speed based on who joined together as a party, 2 Survivors gives 1% to 4 Survivors giving 4%. 2 and 2 would give 2%, 1 and 3 gives 3% naturally. This is just spit balling off the top of my head.
I'd take any bonus at all and frankly, the fact that Killer doesn't even get any Bloodpoints or even confirmation post game that it was SWF is just bad design.
SWF is never going away nor should it, but Killers are half your game like it or not. You need Killers AND Survivors to have a game, one side has a blatant advantage and the other side gets nothing. There should be a fair balance to compensate this.
Comments
BP bonus is not the way to go, IMO. Paying killers to not have fun sets a bad precedent.
Yes they absolutely should. For basic info you are forced to run stuff like Kindred just to see what the hell everyone is doing. The game by default should show any Survivor within 24 meters of a hooked teammate to all allies.
It beats getting nothing I'm afraid.
True, but it's bad in the long-term and, to me, just feels insulting. It's saying "hey, we can't stop you getting kicked in the balls, so here's some money to shut up about it".
I would take bonus bloodpoints. The movement speed seems unfair for any solo in the lobby, and heck, it is kind of unfair for the SWF too.
They should also get a bonus for solo queing. Also get a big bonus if you get hook camped or tunneled and decrease points earned by camping and tunneling killers.
SWF is unfair too but it’s not changing, so… sorry. A bonus 1-2% movement speed because of SWF is not that game changing. 4% is big but that’s only against a full SWF. Regardless this is just an idea of course.
Giving a permanent bonus to the killer for going against 2-3 man SWFs would inevitably end up punishing the solo que players unlucky enough to end up in the wrong match.
I've suggested it before, and i'll do it again-- if you're really set on giving the killer a gameplay bonus, if you're in a match against a SWF, give a level of Bloodlust corresponding to the size of the SWF when in chase with one of the members. That way, the solo queues can play the match like normal whilst getting a distinct advantage against the SWF.
Very good idea!
Any survivor getting killed off faster will invariably affect the other survivors. Furthermore, SWF are less likely to rescue solo survivors, so that's another drawback for the solo survivors. Finally, that just feels like punishing people for playing SWF.
I'll state right now that there is (probably) no way to debuff SWF or buff killers in such a way that it doesn't affect solo survivors and/or doesn't feel unfair.
Yes, totally.
As you can see in these pictures.
The killer definitely needs more Bloodpoints when going against a SWF, the Offering & the 4 stacks of BBQ + The occasional cake / BPs from survivors is clearly not enough. I clearly earned nothing just like u mentioned here:
one side has a blatant advantage and the other side gets nothing
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But when the Killer loads INTO the match, they can be given a handicap. Bonus movement speed based on who joined together as a party, 2 Survivors gives 1% to 4 Survivors giving 4%. 2 and 2 would give 2%, 1 and 3 gives 3% naturally. This is just spit balling off the top of my head.
Let's not give another reason to people to not play the game, yeah? Why should they be punished for playing with friends, OP?
What should be done, however, is give the killer more quality of life features:
You can find more info here:
Because by the nature of the game, SWF specifically have a massive advantage compared to Solo Survivors and Killer. Neither of the 2 mentioned get any form of compensation despite this, it is simply, objectively, unbalanced. If people quit the game because it became balanced, Idk what to tell you. I was just spit balling, my ideas are not the only solution available.
If being the operative word there.
I don't think debuffing SWF is really viable either, since no matter what you do you're gonna catch a lot of people just casually playing with their friends, but if you really really really wanted to give them a debuff, I think that's the least intrusive to solo survivors.
If being the operative word there.
...I never used that word, and your comment has two usages of that word. I don't know what you mean by this.
I don't think debuffing SWF is really viable either, since no matter what you do you're gonna catch a lot of people just casually playing with their friends, but if you really really really wanted to give them a debuff, I think that's the least intrusive to solo survivors.
It's really not the least intrusive, though. You're getting their teammates killed faster, which makes it worse for them. I'd wager you'd see a key/hatch meta develop among solo survivors, since their SWF teammates are more likely to be killed off.
Killers have BPs oozing out their rears unlike survivors and especially SoloQ survivors. Do you want to buff one side? Good, then buff the BP gain for example on Solo Survivors & give killers more quality of life features that they could all benefit from.
That one.
And like.. yeah, getting them killed faster would be the point of giving the killer any buff against the SWF. If it didn't, it'd be kind of pointless.
Again, I don't agree with the whole idea, but if you really wanted to, that's the least offensive buff I can think of.
Pretty much.
OP forgets that not all SWF are Comp teams and playing for fun, even if they communicate. When I play in SWF, we sometimes are drunk, high or very tired due to playing very late at night. We're not Navy Seals, I tell you that much.
Should we be punished for wanting to play with friends?
Yes, SoloQ absolutely deserves buffs as well. They should be able to see teammates within 24 meters of a hooked teammate, they deserve more bloodpoints, etc. My reason for buffing Killer specifically is that Killer has the most stressful role in the game. Sitting on a gen for about a minute is nothing compared to having to balance 4 players and gen progress.
It's not about punishing SWF, it's about buffing the other half of the entire game. Also, yes you still have a massive advantage over SoloQ Survivors and the Killer, even when not being a super good team. The advantages you have don't magically disappear or become fair.
Killers already get way more bloodpoints than survivors. We dont deserve any more bonuses period. With that said go ahead ill take free bloodpoints
Everyone deserves more bloodpoints.
Just double or even triple whatever BP you'd get from Chases and/or Hooks. Honestly, it may be controversial, but BP gains across the board are horrendous. That'd fix the 'grind' aspect of it, but as for ranking... well...
Than buff bloodpoints on both sides not just for killers. I would agree killers and solo q get a bloodpoints boost when with swf. But killer only? I wouldn't agree with
By giving a speed increase to the killer against a SWF, you are punishing SWF.
On top of hurting SoloQ survivors who happen to be unlucky enough to end in a 3 SWF match. Just like has been mentioned in this post before.
I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I don't want extra points or any bonus for playing against people who are just playing with friends. It makes me feel weird and dirty even with the grind this game has. I don't expect to 4k every match and quite frankly I don't want to/no one should.
If we (ie buff movement speeds per member of swf) then I feel like it's just going to become a crutch, I won't be challenged, and because of that I won't get better and just overall feels like I'm getting a massive advantage because a few friends are just shooting the ######### after work. I just want to play the game normally and if I lose, it's just more motivation for me to get better.
All I want the gap between swf and solo to lessen (basekit kindred, limited basekit bond, etc). Every killer faces a SWF on a daily basis without probably even realizing it - most likely duo's and probably very uncoordinated (see: my swf when we play every so often).
By this logic any buff for Killer is punishing Survivors. You see it as a punishment, I see it as giving the Killer the balance they rightfully deserve. Why shouldn't the Killer be given help when their opponents get massive advantages completely for free?
Because when the SWF plays well and communicates, loops properly, does gens spread out properly, run meta perks, bring tool boxes with brand new parts and Prove Thyself, it is simply not balanced. No matter how good of a Killer you are or which Killer you are playing, if they play and perform at the highest level, there is simply not very much you can do, with an exception for Nurse specifically. She can handle it, Myers can't (unless they mess up and he's Tombstone or something silly).
Then you should know that Devs will not balance this whatsoever. As making any slight change will impact the Competitive environment & their financial gain. After all, survivors are the ones who buy the most cosmetics. Competitive is quite a big scene and has rewards ranging from a couple thousand $ to tens of thousands of $.
Their discord has channels for joining and making SWF squads.
Do you want to do something about this? Then look toward the BP grind and nothing more.
Sorry, but I'll keep talking about it and how unbalanced it is until the game shuts down for good. There are 2 sides to this game and one side needs their fair share. One side has a blatant advantage and the other gets nothing. And until that changes I will always argue and discuss this.
Then you're gonna fight a pointless war.
You make the claim the other side gets nothing, I hope you have undisputed proof that this is correct.
…The proof is that Killers get nothing when going against SWF. They gain nothing by playing against a team with a huge advantage. All they get is often an incredibly difficult and stressful game.
There is little a normal non-comp killer can do to play against efficient survivors in the first place, and anyone who says they get these sweat squads all the time to even justify a bonus I find it incredibly hard to believe. I got my first swf sweat squad of 3 rank 1's and a rank 8 in over a month the other day. I also got destroyed by a solo queue just last night (they all drifted into my queue separately and a couple of them left and others took their spot etc etc, so I know they were) who played just as efficient with meta perks too. That doesn't mean I want a bonus for anything still. High level dbd is boring as #########, props to these teams for enjoying it I guess, but I don't let it get under my skin when it happens and just move on to the next match.
Again, if I don't face these challenges I'm/[you are] never going to improve in general even if you occasionally get survivors like that, swf or not. And if survivors are playing efficiently, extra movement speed won't mean anything if all survivors are on gens and you are being looped for multiple gens, it's not going to magically be able to make you apply pressure or do any better, and neither would bonus points or anything else so I just think it's pointless.
Competitive environment? You mean that super almost non-existant environment compared with the size of the game where if the killer gets 1K it's considered a good match?
Well, I'm sorry for being considerate.
Can u explain to me why this "super almost non-existant environment" offers thousands of $ as prizes?
Killers already have the best perk for blood points in the game, they don't need triple BP. Sorry. Especially not when survivors are punished by losing their add ons when killers are afk to derank and farm for challenges.
Noooo my SWF sucks we play for fun we don't need to be annihilated any more than usual lol.
As killer I like the challenge when it's obviously a SWF
You can't handicap survivors just because they are a swf. All you are doing then is punishing the random solo players that get put with 2 and 3 man groups.
Buff solo and then adjust killers if needed.
I get same amount going against trickster and spirit as I should I should have not have any privileges because I went against strongest killer in game versus weakest nor should you for playing against either solo or swf
Dota 2 700K average players, prize of 5M - 35M dollars for winning a tournament, DBD 70K average players (10% of dota wich is not bad) and biggest prize was 20K dollars in Tokyo. DBD has a big playerbase and compared to its size the competitive scene is almost non existant, i don't think this is debatable.
As long as the comp term is brought often on the forums, and there are people comparing casual gameplay to comp & how certain changes would impact the comp environment, I think it's debatable. Not to mention that comp streamers that stream once a in blue moon always get a high amount of viewers, for a DBD streamer at least.
Just because YOU think it's non-existent, that doesn't mean ur right.
Comparing Dota 2 tournaments to DBD? Bruh.
Survive with friends doesn't feel true to the nature of the game imo. Playing with friends to get a quicker party form, sure. That's helpful on days when match making is slow but as a survivor you're mean to be reacting in the moment: quickly and quietly to avoid detection. Being able to set up chat parties etc. Doesn't seem right and I main survivors.