Keys ..keys everywhere
Seriously, every second or third game I have at least one person with a key. Sometimes multiple. They know there is nothing a Killer can do about keys now and they are abusing that fact. Something seriously needs to be done about this lickety-split.
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Survivors get 3 guaranteed, free generators. This is basic game design. That means that the killer can kill, at most, 2 people, and no further gens need done. They can also, as just happened to me, freely and deliberately 3-gen themselves in 2 minutes, wait for someone to die or sacrifice them, and then 3 people escape.
This game is designed to be played around the last 1-2 gens. Keys cut off those gens.
What don't they understand exactly that leads to them being incomparable? They both ends games early and skip part of their sides objectives.
One lets you kill survivors since thats the killers objective, one lets you escape because thats the survivors objective, both end the objective prematurely.
What's this fundamental difference?
A mori has the power to shape the game, which is something a key cannot do.
An old mori could come into play very soon, usually due to tunneling someone of the hook. That turned a game, designed to be 4v1, into a 3v1 before it would normaly happen, often before more than one or maybe two gens were done, thus changing the game dynamic in favor of the killer. From the moment of its use, the mori itself determined the outcome of the game in most cases, turning a game into a 3 or 4kill that without it might not have been happening.
Now look at the 2 extreme cases of a key, a 1 and a 4 key escape.
For a 1 escape to happen, all other survivors have been dead already, so up to the point the key actually comes into play, it was a normal play, and afterwards, its just over.
the same is true for a 4 escape (outside of a few rare cases where killers have and endgame build around blood warden and such), the key only comes into play after a normal game, when all gens are done, and the game is close to its end anyway.
Unlike a mori, the key didnt change the games here in any way.
The only part where a key can change the game is a 2 and 3 people escape. But again, the key doesnt shape these games, because gens still need to be done, so even in those cases (at least 4 gens done and one player dead or at least 3 gens done and 2 survivors dead) the game is further progessed normaly than it would be when an old mori was involved. Also, keys dont have the power to turn a lost game into a win, they just allow you to escape while still losing.
Thats why i dont think they are comparable. Old mori would best be compared with old brand new part, where (at least so i have heard, i didnt play back then) you could basicly skip doing gens and derailing it the same way.
Also, we know keys only account for about 3% of escapes, but i would bet that old moris accounted for a higher kill rate than that.
So summit: Old moris shaped games early on by forcing it into a state it didnt belong to, while keys only do something in the end when most of the game is already done.
Is the chest bug back?
No. Franklins got nerfed so it no longer removes the item from play after it's been "STOP THAT"d out of someones hand.
Dodge the lobbies. It's so hard to find a killer right now due to the bugs, they'll learn quick enough.
Hey. You still haven't answered my question that I asked twice now. I've been trying to appeal to your survivor bias and prove that you're not a troll but every time I ask what you think of my changes you never answer. 🙃
Also in general, are we comparing the old state of moris vs the current state of keys? Or the current moris to current keys, because the two are not comparable at all... Old moris, yes those were nerfed and rightfully so. But current moris don't really serve a purpose outside of seeing a cool animation kill.
Current moris the killer needs to still get someone to death hook, so at that point whether by hook or mori, you're dead regardless. Hell, sometimes hooking is actually better than using a mori depending on the killer. Some killers have really long animations for their moris to where you'd be saving time just hooking them to kill them. So yeah I'm a little confused on where this comparison is coming from...
I’m not a new player bud
In my opinion, while moris needed to change, they overdid it, since yes, moris are basicly useless, outside of maybe avoiding a ds of flashlight save.
But before the nerf, whenever someone asked for one, the response was "but what about keys", and thus people though it might be an adequate compatision, which i hopefully showed why its not.
One problem with the mori change was never adressed though, the fact that some killers needed them to keep up with swf.
But then, in this regards, keys are a little similar, because between Dcs, suicides and tunneling killers, solo survivors need a reason to keep going when the first survivor is out due to one of that reasons, and to me, hatch and keys are that reason.
We should get a totem counter since swfs get one as base kit. If killers are to be buffed then the gap between swf and solo survior needs to be bridged
"often before more than one or maybe two gens were done"
I disagree, the first chase usually results in 3 gens done unless you got potatoes.
"Now look at the 2 extreme cases of a key"
Lets look at a middle example since that's more realistic than extremes. Lets say you want a 3 man key escape, you just need to do 1 more. Hell you could 3 gen yourself and get out with your 2 teammates. 3 man escape is a win.
"keys dont have the power to turn a lost game into a win"
Again, 3 people out is a win, when it could have otherwise not been. So I disagree with this as well. Even if it doesn't force a win it can force a tie at 3 gens done, which are pretty much guaranteed to the survivors. Again, unless they're potatoes.
"the game is further progessed normaly than it would be when an old mori was involved."
Involved maybe, but the problem isn't necessarily when the item/offering started effecting the game, its the "ok I'm doing well, I killed a survivor, I got a 3 gen, 2 of the others are on death hook -screen fades to black, results screen pops up- annnnd I lost." the same way before it was "ok we're doing well, thats just second hook, aaaaaand there's a mori."
"the key doesnt shape these games, because gens still need to be done"
And chases still need to be won by the killer twice for each mori, one to hook, one to mori. Keys can definitely shape the game, your priority becomes to kill the key holder, not just go after any survivor because if you let the key holder live they'll just get 3 man win early before the killer gets much use out of their main power point of 1-2 gens. Even then it doesn't do much because someone else can just pick it up.
"you could basicly skip doing gens and derailing it the same way."
Yeah like skipping the last 1-2 gens to force a win or tie, like a key does.
"while keys only do something in the end when most of the game is already done."
In any game with competent survivors, most of the game takes place around 1-2 gens. When can you use a key to force an outcome that's not the killer winning when they could have? At 1-2 gens. Again, the problem is it can just change what could have easily been a win into a loss or a tie.
Keys don't really have any counter the same way mori's didn't. Except now Mori's are trash and keys are still strong as ever, scratch that, stronger with the Franklins and Mori nerf as there's nothing to do about them. Was a mori nerf needed? Yes! But we also needed a key nerf that we never got.
Found the rank 12 survivor main
I have that feeling about Blight or Wraith. Every third game it's a killer loaded with a tremendous advantage in slowdown perks. It's so bad, there's even POP used as a backup to Ruin.
Keys are really fine.
it can't be that bad
I still think keys are far weaker. You still have to complete most of the objective and still try to find hatch, and someone has to die. Most of the time the killer wins before it gets that far because those slowgen perks are so oppressive.
I also use keys now thanks to Franklins nerf. And thanks to that nerf I don't play killer atm.
wdym killers usually have to tunnel if they dont get a decent early game i rarely see killers camping or tunneling
and the post is exaggerating every second or third game but fr i see more keys than noed users in red ranks
noed is really only used in green ranks and below
I literally said i'm seeing one to two keys every other game, but there have been games with three and in one case four.
Please tell me you dodge it. These people don't deserve a game.
Run stbfl, noed, starstruck and sloppy butcher. Hard face camp, hard tunnel them out of the game.
Even weirder, they dodged me, in lobby, 3 separate times that screenshot is of the 3rd time I found them, they left shortly after
Huh that's new. Unless they have a way to know who you are or what killer you're using?
If they are scared to face a blight while they have 3 keys and a map idk what they wouldn't be scared of
Lobby dodge and find survivors who actually want to play a full game...as a killer main in the evening you get to choose the terms not them...most I ever have to lobby dodge is a couple of games and then fun time😎
Its funny that baby survivor mains are crying about spirit having no counterplay, but when something from their side has no counterplay it is fine 🤔.
Last minute switches where the killer cant do anything is cheating...I would DC from the game as well and load back in...guarantee I find a match quicker as killer than the survivor playing lobby simulator for trying to cheat the system.
Reminds me of the time when they straight up told us 2 months in advance they were gonna nerf instaheals, those matches were miserable as every survivor would bring them to the game.
This is certainly not the case for most people I assume. I have seen 1 key on my team in the past few weeks if I remember and I believe 1 was found in a match that we were able to use. Other than that keys feel like a rare use occasion for me. I'm probably going to go ahead and use up the keys I have while they're still worth using because I feel like with all the complaining about keys I see lately (which again I believe is not very substantive and just some killers getting super offended that a key was used against them) that the keys are going to get nerfed into dust and not even worth collecting from the blood web anymore. Hey lets not stop here. Lets remove all survivor perks and remove our ability to run too. Also lets just remove the escape capability for survivors and let the killers get 4k every game. I mean it is DEAD by Daylight right? ... :(
There is a tome challenge where you need to escape with an ultra rare object and I ly keys and maps have those, so it might be just that.
Typical response from another entitled killer main, when someone dont agree with him. XD
Well I saw six last night alone out of ten games. So.
Yeah.
Keys should spawn in every match. Killers should never bellyache about keys when endgame collapse exists, a completely killer sided mechanic. A killer should never ever be able to hook a 3rd person, stand on the hatch and guarantee their 4K. That's a lose lose situation for the survivor and it happens every time in this situation.
PFFFF
Yep. I've all but given up on even going for the hatch when I'm the last survivor anymore. This literally happens to me every time this situation happens. When you're having to run the killer, or even just the killer roaming the map, they most likely are going to find the hatch before you and as soon as that third survivor is hooked its off to the hatch to make sure it closes the very moment it opens. At the very least the killer should not even be able to interact with it, or just not even see its spawn location until it does open. The fact they can hook the 3rd and basically control the hatch if they know where it is when they die is beyond ridiculous.
I have morals. I try my best to 12 hook and not camp where possible. I like being fair and not running someone out of the game early. The moment I see a key gamer in my lobby is when I put my morals in a chest and say, "I'll be back for you later" as I load into the match.
Now I'm not saying I'm gonna tunnel vision and camp them to death. That's just not optimal play. What I am saying is I will not go out of my way to avoid doing those things. If you are in my way then so be it. If you bring the key your kindness privileges have been revoked
That is a really good point, it is not fair for the killer to see the hatch until after it is opened. Killers roam around the map way more than survivors and they almost always know where the hatch is when it is spawn. I've been keeping mental notes and at least 9 out of 10 times they beeline to the hatch to close it. If they don't, they slug. This why I think keys should always spawn to at least give a chance to escape.
How you play a game isn't a moral issue. Anyone who thinks it is needs to seek help.
And...the worst part about keys? I only ever play against them if i happen to not pay attention in a lobby and forget to dodge, or get last-second switched or have a chest spawn one. In every case I just stop playing the game, because it's automatically tainted soon as a key is involved.
Keys are annoying for Solo Q survivors and for killers. Sometimes when I play survivor 1 or 2 guys scape via hatch, and it feels like a betrayal as reamining survivor is repairing gens.
And sometimes that I´m playing killer (I play chill and don´t tryhard at least i´m being overpassed by survivors), it also feels very unfair watch survivors scape through hatch.
Which page of the rulebook is this?
the things you just mentioned actually have counters. Camping killers=do gens. NOED=do totems. Keys have literally no counter now. Your only hope is that they’re all dog and are able to slug them all which is rarely the case. The fact people still cry about noed is baffling
If you have a 3 gen, 3 survivors literally get to escape for free all because of that key. The fact that you actually believe being able to end a game instantly in the click of a button before completely your whole objective shows you only play 1 side
Don't bother with this thread or this game anymore. It's broken and will never be fixed; I finally called it quits myself today after five years of hoping the devs would pull their heads out of their asses and stop catering to Survivors, but recent changes have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that'll never happen.
For those of you staying with this game, good luck and have fun.
I take it you just hide for hatch escapes since you don't seem to roam to do gens😏
noed gives killers undeserved kills so people will always be upset about as long as it rewards bad killers