Yeah, no. Most of those are complete garbage or extremely situational, I mean come on, mettle of man? Poised? Seriously? That's like claiming that Deathbound and Overcharge are meta perks.
There is a *massive* difference between META perks and GOOD perks.
Honestly i wish stuff like Distraction, Red Herring, Dance with Me, Lucky break etc where meta. The current survivor meta is basically 4 extra health states - "i got greedy popping a gen? SB / DH away, cought? DS, Slugged to counter DS? Unbreak-a-Bill, my lemming of a teammate went down? BT"
I wish there were more perks to be used to evade chase / during chase in general instead of AFTER a succefull chase. Or more info perks for stealth gameplay.
That picture is claiming that Tenacity, Poised, and Self Care are strong perks.
Self Care is a strong perk though
People really need to get over the stereotype of the baby Claudette using self care and not taking care of teammates. There are tonnes of perks that are detrimental to the team if you don't use them right
Of course a medkit with lots of charges is better than self care but you don't always have the luxury of bringing one every game, let alone being lucky to find one in every game either.
Hope listed as a very powerful perk, Fixated considered weak, Autodidact is considered 'strong', Repressed Alliance is considered -at all-, WGLF considered almost as strong as We'll Make It, Desperate Measures considered stronger than Botany, Appraisal (Almost no item is worth searching a chest for, it takes too much time)...
Considering Babysitter extremely reliable. Maybe for the aura reading, but half its effect demands a very specific scenario.
But I have to say that the most laughable thing is Diversion listed as 'extremely powerful and extremely reliable'. It is such a tragically bad perk that I honestly thought it was bugged for the longest time, since no killer seems to react to it. It is excessively situational and not actually useful.
Outside of the big meta 4 (Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike), there's a handful of perks that can be considered 'solid' at best.
Pretty much everything else is either unbelievably conditional (Must get 5+ skill checks while healing for Autodidact to have a positive value, must get a safe unhook off someone else first for Deliverance, killer has to walk under pallet for Power Struggle, etc.) or utterly pointless in terms of output value (Technician, Visionary, Deja Vu). And then there's perks that can be counterplayed extremely easily, like Tenacity or WGLF.
Survivors just have way too many duds. Of the last three survivors to be added, none of them have any perks that have any kind of relevance. Smash Hit is too unreliable, Fast Track only activates under the worst conditions and doesn't give nearly as much as it should to offset that. Elodie had nothing of value, Felix certainly had nothing of value. (Outside of his damn good looks)
Meanwhile, on killers, Blight had Undying, which became somewhat meta, and Trickster brought in Starstruck, which has made some killers way stronger.
There's always the option of experimenting with builds that utilise the playstyle particular to you, as opposed to the standard builds used by many others. @alkis has the right idea: Don't choose a build based upon what certain YouTubers, streamers or such say are the best; choose a build that suits what you want to achieve and feel free to experiment. Playstyle is much more important than perks anyway.
Here's some other builds that may be fun to try, but also quite effective and gives an idea of messing about with perks:
The Trickster (survivor build): Red Herring/ Deception/ Diversion/ Lucky Break
The Scout: Deja Vu/ Detective's Hunch/ Saboteur/ Dark Sense. Also use a map with the Glass Bead and Crystal Bead add-ons
The Prospector: Plunderer's Instinct/ Appraisal/ Ace In The Hole/ Built To Last
The Magician: Red Herring/ Repressed Alliance/ For The People/ Distortion. Use any item with an add-on that rapidly speeds up its effectiveness
The Soap: Flip-Flop/ Boil Over/ Breakout/ Power Struggle
The Avenger: Smash Hit/ Decisive Strike/ Head On/ Breakout with Torch item.
The Breaker: Saboteur/ Breakdown/ Deliverance/ Technician
Basically, if you're not worried about winning everytime, just experiment to see what fits your style! It may not be "the meta", but if it's a perfect fit to your style, then it may become your unique meta.
People really need to get over the stereotype of the baby Claudette using self care and not taking care of teammates. There are tonnes of perks that are detrimental to the team if you don't use them right
Of course a medkit with lots of charges is better than self care but you don't always have the luxury of bringing one every game, let alone being lucky to find one in every game either.
Brown medkit, you shouldn't need to heal yourself more than once per game unless it's a Stridor Spirit, in which case you're ######### anyway. Oni can be denied his power long enough if your team have more than 5 combined braincells. Can bring one every game. Alternatively, yellow medkit with +8 charges, can also be used every game.
Self Care is a garbage waste of a perk slot that can and will lead to the demise of your team. Learn to play injured.
Brown medkit, you shouldn't need to heal yourself more than once per game unless it's a Stridor Spirit, in which case you're ######### anyway. Oni can be denied his power long enough if your team have more than 5 combined braincells. Can bring one every game. Alternatively, yellow medkit with +8 charges, can also be used every game.
Self Care is a garbage waste of a perk slot that can and will lead to the demise of your team. Learn to play injured.
If you're that scared, Inner Strength.
That's a bullshite "rule" about not needing to heal yourself more than once unless it's a Spirit. As if that's the strongest thing in this game (better killers such as Blight/Nurse, especially with certain add ons or perks). The purpose of survivor is to waste as much of the killer's time. Healing is heavily resetting the killer's pressure on survivors and making them waste more time than otherwise to down you. By trying to be a show off and refusing to heal when it's optimal, you're simply being a detriment to your team; it has nothing to do with how good you are at looping. People act like it's hard to get one smack on a survivor regardless of the skill. It really isn't, particularly when they're injured - one smack and you're down. Taking bodyblocks in situations such as if your teammate is being tunnelled also is a benefit of being healed; you can't do that when you're injured. And sometimes you need to do trade hooks.
As I was saying before, medkits are preferred, but let's not pretend that the lot of players have hundreds of medkits with hundreds of add ons at their leisure to bring every game, because they don't and you know that. People spend bloodpoints on multiple things in this game rather than the same specific survivor to get medkits to bring every game.
Self Care, when used right, is more than fine. Again people need to stop thinking everyone who uses Self Care is a rank 20 Claudette who doesn't do any objectives until she's fully healed. That's intentional ignorance about the perk and trying too hard to paint it in a bad light. Obviously if you're in a SWF you can coordinate your heals but in solo queue especially, and in general in this game, the more independent you are the better. The less time a teammate has to spend healing you is more time spent doing other objectives like saving or doing a generator.
Inner Strength is an alternative and personally what I prefer since I am relatively familiar with totem spawns; if I find one totem I can follow the hex pattern to find another generally except on certain maps. However you are limited to up to 5 heals, and your teammates can render your perk virtually useless if not entirely useless before you even get to a totem, if you even see one; some maps like Léry's and Midwich you can go an entire game without seeing a totem because of how well placed they are.
I personally have enough medkits to bring most games (I find survivor more fun without and I'm able to hold my own without needing healing perks/medkits) and the last time I used self care (and inner strength) was several months ago; not that long after I started playing this game, but I'm aware Self Care is a good perk when used properly, which after a certain amount of game sense you can easily start to use it right, especially when accompanied with Botany Knowledge to make healing faster. But this notion that healing makes you a worse survivor is kind of cringe. What's next, dropping pallets is a weakness too?
There's always the option of experimenting with builds that utilise the playstyle particular to you, as opposed to the standard builds used by many others. @alkis has the right idea: Don't choose a build based upon what certain YouTubers, streamers or such say are the best; choose a build that suits what you want to achieve and feel free to experiment. Playstyle is much more important than perks anyway.
Here's some other builds that may be fun to try, but also quite effective and gives an idea of messing about with perks:
The Trickster (survivor build): Red Herring/ Deception/ Diversion/ Lucky Break
The Scout: Deja Vu/ Detective's Hunch/ Saboteur/ Dark Sense. Also use a map with the Glass Bead and Crystal Bead add-ons
The Prospector: Plunderer's Instinct/ Appraisal/ Ace In The Hole/ Built To Last
The Magician: Red Herring/ Repressed Alliance/ For The People/ Distortion. Use any item with an add-on that rapidly speeds up its effectiveness
The Soap: Flip-Flop/ Boil Over/ Breakout/ Power Struggle
The Avenger: Smash Hit/ Decisive Strike/ Head On/ Breakout with Torch item.
The Breaker: Saboteur/ Breakdown/ Deliverance/ Technician
Basically, if you're not worried about winning everytime, just experiment to see what fits your style! It may not be "the meta", but if it's a perfect fit to your style, then it may become your unique meta.
I completely agree. I have been experimenting a lot lately and having fun with a few new builds. I'm currently trying to make a bunch of different builds with atleast every single survivor perk and its going well.
I did Botany Knowledge/ Desperate Measures/ Blood Pact/ Leader. It's so fun having faster heals. People need to experiment and try out different things.
(I have some other fun builds if you want to know)
That's a bullshite "rule" about not needing to heal yourself more than once unless it's a Spirit. As if that's the strongest thing in this game (better killers such as Blight/Nurse, especially with certain add ons or perks). The purpose of survivor is to waste as much of the killer's time. Healing is heavily resetting the killer's pressure on survivors and making them waste more time than otherwise to down you. By trying to be a show off and refusing to heal when it's optimal, you're simply being a detriment to your team; it has nothing to do with how good you are at looping. People act like it's hard to get one smack on a survivor regardless of the skill. It really isn't, particularly when they're injured - one smack and you're down. Taking bodyblocks in situations such as if your teammate is being tunnelled also is a benefit of being healed; you can't do that when you're injured. And sometimes you need to do trade hooks.
As I was saying before, medkits are preferred, but let's not pretend that the lot of players have hundreds of medkits with hundreds of add ons at their leisure to bring every game, because they don't and you know that. People spend bloodpoints on multiple things in this game rather than the same specific survivor to get medkits to bring every game.
Self Care, when used right, is more than fine. Again people need to stop thinking everyone who uses Self Care is a rank 20 Claudette who doesn't do any objectives until she's fully healed. That's intentional ignorance about the perk and trying too hard to paint it in a bad light. Obviously if you're in a SWF you can coordinate your heals but in solo queue especially, and in general in this game, the more independent you are the better. The less time a teammate has to spend healing you is more time spent doing other objectives like saving or doing a generator.
Inner Strength is an alternative and personally what I prefer since I am relatively familiar with totem spawns; if I find one totem I can follow the hex pattern to find another generally except on certain maps. However you are limited to up to 5 heals, and your teammates can render your perk virtually useless if not entirely useless before you even get to a totem, if you even see one; some maps like Léry's and Midwich you can go an entire game without seeing a totem because of how well placed they are.
I personally have enough medkits to bring most games (I find survivor more fun without and I'm able to hold my own without needing healing perks/medkits) and the last time I used self care (and inner strength) was several months ago; not that long after I started playing this game, but I'm aware Self Care is a good perk when used properly, which after a certain amount of game sense you can easily start to use it right, especially when accompanied with Botany Knowledge to make healing faster. But this notion that healing makes you a worse survivor is kind of cringe. What's next, dropping pallets is a weakness too?
The things is, healing its already a waste of time, since what survivor should be doing are two things,
1) wasting as much time as possible, which what you said it's right, being healthy make you waste a lot more time than being injured but this statement get destroyed by the other things that survivor should be doing.
2) capitalizing on the time that other are wasting, aka repairing gen, basically that's the situation where the fact that other it's wasting time will pay off, ideally there will be three survivor on three different generator while one of them it's being chased, so a decent killer can hit a survivor in 30 second which means he will down them in 60 second ish now if the killer for example hit you before but then leaved for whatever reason, this will leave you three choices one, you use self care, and stay useless for 32 second, two you try to get healed by a teammate (which it's unreliable) and will potentially make you waste 16 second each, plus you could get interrupted. Third option, you stay on gen and pressure the killer, this's simply the best strategy you don't waste 32 second, and you use them to make progress on your only objective, this's why med kit are so powerful, you can heal yourself in a relative short amount of time, without bothering your teammate that are doing gens and one/two heal are enough for all the game considering you will not be just injured and left (unless it's a legion, but why the ######### would you heal against a legion) the only acceptable time to use self care it's when your on death hook, and even then you will either die if your time It's already in a bad spot, or if your winning a teammate can heal you a lot faster.
That's the simple reason why self care it's just a bad perk, there are more useful healing perk, an item that's 100000000 times better than self care, and staying injured it's the majority of the time a better strategy.
That's a bullshite "rule" about not needing to heal yourself more than once unless it's a Spirit. As if that's the strongest thing in this game (better killers such as Blight/Nurse, especially with certain add ons or perks). The purpose of survivor is to waste as much of the killer's time. Healing is heavily resetting the killer's pressure on survivors and making them waste more time than otherwise to down you. By trying to be a show off and refusing to heal when it's optimal, you're simply being a detriment to your team; it has nothing to do with how good you are at looping. People act like it's hard to get one smack on a survivor regardless of the skill. It really isn't, particularly when they're injured - one smack and you're down. Taking bodyblocks in situations such as if your teammate is being tunnelled also is a benefit of being healed; you can't do that when you're injured. And sometimes you need to do trade hooks.
As I was saying before, medkits are preferred, but let's not pretend that the lot of players have hundreds of medkits with hundreds of add ons at their leisure to bring every game, because they don't and you know that. People spend bloodpoints on multiple things in this game rather than the same specific survivor to get medkits to bring every game.
Self Care, when used right, is more than fine. Again people need to stop thinking everyone who uses Self Care is a rank 20 Claudette who doesn't do any objectives until she's fully healed. That's intentional ignorance about the perk and trying too hard to paint it in a bad light. Obviously if you're in a SWF you can coordinate your heals but in solo queue especially, and in general in this game, the more independent you are the better. The less time a teammate has to spend healing you is more time spent doing other objectives like saving or doing a generator.
Inner Strength is an alternative and personally what I prefer since I am relatively familiar with totem spawns; if I find one totem I can follow the hex pattern to find another generally except on certain maps. However you are limited to up to 5 heals, and your teammates can render your perk virtually useless if not entirely useless before you even get to a totem, if you even see one; some maps like Léry's and Midwich you can go an entire game without seeing a totem because of how well placed they are.
I personally have enough medkits to bring most games (I find survivor more fun without and I'm able to hold my own without needing healing perks/medkits) and the last time I used self care (and inner strength) was several months ago; not that long after I started playing this game, but I'm aware Self Care is a good perk when used properly, which after a certain amount of game sense you can easily start to use it right, especially when accompanied with Botany Knowledge to make healing faster. But this notion that healing makes you a worse survivor is kind of cringe. What's next, dropping pallets is a weakness too?
In terms of the first point, by being optimal and not healing you're not actually being a detriment. Obviously you adapt your strategy if, say, the killer has Tinkerer, however it's preferable to stay on a generator injured because you can hold w when you hear the terror radius. Holding w is such an incredibly strong strategy that everyone always underestimates. The reason I say you shouldn't need to heal yourself more than once is because you have teammates who heal you after an unhook. Unless the killer is playing hit and run, you shouldn't need to use your self heal until late into the match.
Self care wastes 32 seconds, 40nwith Sloppy. In a game where every second is important, with Hex: Ruin being so prevalent in the current meta, that is 16 (20 w/ Sloppy) seconds lost on a generator every time you heal yourself. Using a medkit is 8 (10) second lost, and Inner Strength is about the same with the incentive of encouraging you to find totems and thus delete Ruin. It takes too long and it's incredibly inefficient.
Inner Strength is a preferable alternative but again, if you're healing yourself 3+ times in the same game you're playing dbd wrong, the killer is a Spirit, Nurse, or Blight, or hit and run. You only need 1-2 totems each game. Because, again, teammates exist and they can heal you after an unhook.
In terms of not having enough medkits, you should very easily be able to get enough by levelling a character after a game. If you're levelling a character then play that character and your medkit supply is practically infinite. Even if you don't level them, I have about 200+ brown medkits on Claudette about around 140 on David. That's 340 games I can play of Survivor with a full 16 second heal and spend my points into other people, at which point they would have plenty of medkits on them for me to use instead.
And rather ironically, pre-dropping pallets into w key gaming and playing it safe is incredibly strong and incredibly underrated. Any chase killer gets their power hard countered, and there's only a few killers who can deal with it (Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Wraith, Clown).
So no, self care is garbage perk. Being comfortable while injured is one of the major splits between a good and bad survivor.
I completely agree. I have been experimenting a lot lately and having fun with a few new builds. I'm currently trying to make a bunch of different builds with atleast every single survivor perk and its going well.
I did Botany Knowledge/ Desperate Measures/ Blood Pact/ Leader. It's so fun having faster heals. People need to experiment and try out different things.
(I have some other fun builds if you want to know)
Do it! Seriously, share any builds you like!
It's important to actually discover the depth that's actually available. I randomize my build every time and deal with what I've got. Heck, even Distressing without an accompanying perk (or being the Doc) I've found useful. The only perk which has done diddly squat for me is Slippery Meat. I've yeeted off more times without it than with. Slippery Meat could be redone to reduce how long a killer has to transport you, especially when perks like Deliverance trump it.
People really need to get over the stereotype of the baby Claudette using self care and not taking care of teammates. There are tonnes of perks that are detrimental to the team if you don't use them right
Of course a medkit with lots of charges is better than self care but you don't always have the luxury of bringing one every game, let alone being lucky to find one in every game either.
self-care sucks it was good back then but people just use it all the time even with sloppy
i mainly play killer and I get a brain aneurysm when I see someone uses self-care
In terms of the first point, by being optimal and not healing you're not actually being a detriment. Obviously you adapt your strategy if, say, the killer has Tinkerer, however it's preferable to stay on a generator injured because you can hold w when you hear the terror radius. Holding w is such an incredibly strong strategy that everyone always underestimates. The reason I say you shouldn't need to heal yourself more than once is because you have teammates who heal you after an unhook. Unless the killer is playing hit and run, you shouldn't need to use your self heal until late into the match.
Self care wastes 32 seconds, 40nwith Sloppy. In a game where every second is important, with Hex: Ruin being so prevalent in the current meta, that is 16 (20 w/ Sloppy) seconds lost on a generator every time you heal yourself. Using a medkit is 8 (10) second lost, and Inner Strength is about the same with the incentive of encouraging you to find totems and thus delete Ruin. It takes too long and it's incredibly inefficient.
Inner Strength is a preferable alternative but again, if you're healing yourself 3+ times in the same game you're playing dbd wrong, the killer is a Spirit, Nurse, or Blight, or hit and run. You only need 1-2 totems each game. Because, again, teammates exist and they can heal you after an unhook.
In terms of not having enough medkits, you should very easily be able to get enough by levelling a character after a game. If you're levelling a character then play that character and your medkit supply is practically infinite. Even if you don't level them, I have about 200+ brown medkits on Claudette about around 140 on David. That's 340 games I can play of Survivor with a full 16 second heal and spend my points into other people, at which point they would have plenty of medkits on them for me to use instead.
And rather ironically, pre-dropping pallets into w key gaming and playing it safe is incredibly strong and incredibly underrated. Any chase killer gets their power hard countered, and there's only a few killers who can deal with it (Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Wraith, Clown).
So no, self care is garbage perk. Being comfortable while injured is one of the major splits between a good and bad survivor.
When I say being optimal, I meant that in terms of circumstance. In the ones you mentioned where there is Ruin, you need to sit on generators to get them done, especially if it's a very mobile killer. If you have reliable teammates (particularly in a SWF), again, you can coordinate heals and Self Care let alone a medkit is not even necessary, but in solo queue? Relying on teammates? A joke. Even with Bond and/or Kindred I struggle to get people even in purple and red ranks who have enough sense to do decent plays, which is why I'm more prone to bringing a medkit in Solo Queue. Being as independent as possible in Solo Queue especially is going to benefit your team, especially considering how dysfunctional it is to begin with.
Being "optimal" as well depends on the circumstances. With Sloppy I wouldn't probably use Self Care if I was running it, although I don't see many people running Sloppy these days, or even mangled add ons for that matter. Ruin is moderately seen, although often accompanied without undying now in favour of pop.
If you're a veteran, which I'm presuming you are just due to your post count alone, then yes you're obviously going to have a stash of medkits. But the average person doesn't. There are two roles in this game people play, and many people spend bloodpoints trying to simply get teachables, to get max perks, or to prestige a character. Can you spend all your bloodpoints into specific survivors? Sure, but that's really limiting and not pragmatic for people who want to distribute the grind to other things in this game.
In a perfect world, healing perks like Inner Strength and Self Care wouldn't even be necessary because you would almost always have decent teammates who can coordinate plays with you. But unfortunately in the world of solo queue you often get potatoes with fried brains. You know, like those people who run away from you and waste a minute of your time to get healed in a corner when you have We'll Make It and the killer is on the other side of the map.
self-care sucks it was good back then but people just use it all the time even with sloppy
i mainly play killer and I get a brain aneurysm when I see someone uses self-care
I don't really pay attention much to perks as killer but at least as survivor, I rarely see Self Care. In either role I don't mind it if it's used decently.
When I say being optimal, I meant that in terms of circumstance. In the ones you mentioned where there is Ruin, you need to sit on generators to get them done, especially if it's a very mobile killer. If you have reliable teammates (particularly in a SWF), again, you can coordinate heals and Self Care let alone a medkit is not even necessary, but in solo queue? Relying on teammates? A joke. Even with Bond and/or Kindred I struggle to get people even in purple and red ranks who have enough sense to do decent plays, which is why I'm more prone to bringing a medkit in Solo Queue. Being as independent as possible in Solo Queue especially is going to benefit your team, especially considering how dysfunctional it is to begin with.
Being "optimal" as well depends on the circumstances. With Sloppy I wouldn't probably use Self Care if I was running it, although I don't see many people running Sloppy these days, or even mangled add ons for that matter. Ruin is moderately seen, although often accompanied without undying now in favour of pop.
If you're a veteran, which I'm presuming you are just due to your post count alone, then yes you're obviously going to have a stash of medkits. But the average person doesn't. There are two roles in this game people play, and many people spend bloodpoints trying to simply get teachables, to get max perks, or to prestige a character. Can you spend all your bloodpoints into specific survivors? Sure, but that's really limiting and not pragmatic for people who want to distribute the grind to other things in this game.
In a perfect world, healing perks like Inner Strength and Self Care wouldn't even be necessary because you would almost always have decent teammates who can coordinate plays with you. But unfortunately in the world of solo queue you often get potatoes with fried brains. You know, like those people who run away from you and waste a minute of your time to get healed in a corner when you have We'll Make It and the killer is on the other side of the map.
I don't really pay attention much to perks as killer but at least as survivor, I rarely see Self Care. In either role I don't mind it if it's used decently.
by what i mean is when they have oh boy they'll let you know they have they'll just use the perk 24/7
The things is, healing its already a waste of time, since what survivor should be doing are two things,
1) wasting as much time as possible, which what you said it's right, being healthy make you waste a lot more time than being injured but this statement get destroyed by the other things that survivor should be doing.
2) capitalizing on the time that other are wasting, aka repairing gen, basically that's the situation where the fact that other it's wasting time will pay off, ideally there will be three survivor on three different generator while one of them it's being chased, so a decent killer can hit a survivor in 30 second which means he will down them in 60 second ish now if the killer for example hit you before but then leaved for whatever reason, this will leave you three choices one, you use self care, and stay useless for 32 second, two you try to get healed by a teammate (which it's unreliable) and will potentially make you waste 16 second each, plus you could get interrupted. Third option, you stay on gen and pressure the killer, this's simply the best strategy you don't waste 32 second, and you use them to make progress on your only objective, this's why med kit are so powerful, you can heal yourself in a relative short amount of time, without bothering your teammate that are doing gens and one/two heal are enough for all the game considering you will not be just injured and left (unless it's a legion, but why the ######### would you heal against a legion) the only acceptable time to use self care it's when your on death hook, and even then you will either die if your time It's already in a bad spot, or if your winning a teammate can heal you a lot faster.
That's the simple reason why self care it's just a bad perk, there are more useful healing perk, an item that's 100000000 times better than self care, and staying injured it's the majority of the time a better strategy.
Didn't see this post at first when I replied so it's going to be separate.
I heavily disagree about healing in general being a waste of time. There are many instances where it's not optimal and/or even necessary (Plague, Legion), but healing in general is a benefit.
You're only stating specific scenarios about how Self Care would be bad to use as if that is the general scope of the game. As I've said before medkits are preferred so I'm not sure why people are acting as if I'm stating Self Care is better, let alone on par, with a medkit.
People really overrate staying injured. There's a time and a place for that, just like there's a time and a place to heal, but it's not a virtue. Resetting the killer's pressure by healing is the thing to do in many scenarios because one hook closer to a 3v1 can be the end of your team in a game that you otherwise could've won, and there are multiple scenarios where someone specifically needs to get healed but time needs to be spent towards other objectives.
Didn't see this post at first when I replied so it's going to be separate.
I heavily disagree about healing in general being a waste of time. There are many instances where it's not optimal and/or even necessary (Plague, Legion), but healing in general is a benefit.
You're only stating specific scenarios about how Self Care would be bad to use as if that is the general scope of the game. As I've said before medkits are preferred so I'm not sure why people are acting as if I'm stating Self Care is better, let alone on par, with a medkit.
People really overrate staying injured. There's a time and a place for that, just like there's a time and a place to heal, but it's not a virtue. Resetting the killer's pressure by healing is the thing to do in many scenarios because one hook closer to a 3v1 can be the end of your team in a game that you otherwise could've won, and there are multiple scenarios where someone specifically needs to get healed but time needs to be spent towards other objectives.
Ok so first of all let me clarify, i don't think that self care it's worst than getting healed by someone else, they can be both equally bad, or good in some situation, but what I'm saying it's that the situation where healing its really necessary aren't many, outside of stealth killer (Myers, Ghostface, and wraith usually can get the first hit easily, so if your injured that will be your last hit, but they usually use sloppy butcher, and sloppy with self care it's a big oof moment) and if your on death hook or in a winning position, staying injured make you do generator "faster" (you save 20 second ish) which can mean a lot, again staying injured all game its bad, but the majority of the time survivor should be comfortable staying injured and being good enough at looping that they can waste enough time regardless.
In terms of the first point, by being optimal and not healing you're not actually being a detriment. Obviously you adapt your strategy if, say, the killer has Tinkerer, however it's preferable to stay on a generator injured because you can hold w when you hear the terror radius. Holding w is such an incredibly strong strategy that everyone always underestimates. The reason I say you shouldn't need to heal yourself more than once is because you have teammates who heal you after an unhook. Unless the killer is playing hit and run, you shouldn't need to use your self heal until late into the match.
Self care wastes 32 seconds, 40nwith Sloppy. In a game where every second is important, with Hex: Ruin being so prevalent in the current meta, that is 16 (20 w/ Sloppy) seconds lost on a generator every time you heal yourself. Using a medkit is 8 (10) second lost, and Inner Strength is about the same with the incentive of encouraging you to find totems and thus delete Ruin. It takes too long and it's incredibly inefficient.
Inner Strength is a preferable alternative but again, if you're healing yourself 3+ times in the same game you're playing dbd wrong, the killer is a Spirit, Nurse, or Blight, or hit and run. You only need 1-2 totems each game. Because, again, teammates exist and they can heal you after an unhook.
In terms of not having enough medkits, you should very easily be able to get enough by levelling a character after a game. If you're levelling a character then play that character and your medkit supply is practically infinite. Even if you don't level them, I have about 200+ brown medkits on Claudette about around 140 on David. That's 340 games I can play of Survivor with a full 16 second heal and spend my points into other people, at which point they would have plenty of medkits on them for me to use instead.
And rather ironically, pre-dropping pallets into w key gaming and playing it safe is incredibly strong and incredibly underrated. Any chase killer gets their power hard countered, and there's only a few killers who can deal with it (Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Wraith, Clown).
So no, self care is garbage perk. Being comfortable while injured is one of the major splits between a good and bad survivor.
"You don't have to heal and can just hold w when you hear the tr"
Me:*laughs in wraith main* lol. Stealth killers really force out the heals imo. Although tbf go ahead self care heal i run nurses as well. So i mean kinda lose lose.
"You don't have to heal and can just hold w when you hear the tr"
Me:*laughs in wraith main* lol. Stealth killers really force out the heals imo. Although tbf go ahead self care heal i run nurses as well. So i mean kinda lose lose.
Tldr: This is an archived version of the DBD forum, it has all posts, comments and media. The archived data will be published at the end of October. This site is not in any way affiliated with or endorsed by Behaviour Interactive.
Comments
That picture is claiming that Tenacity, Poised, and Self Care are strong perks.
To be fair, you only ever really see the same perks at red ranks, you can't blame people for wanting more options.
Yeah, no. Most of those are complete garbage or extremely situational, I mean come on, mettle of man? Poised? Seriously? That's like claiming that Deathbound and Overcharge are meta perks.
There is a *massive* difference between META perks and GOOD perks.
And balanced landing too lol
Tenacity is actually okay but yeah poised is complete trash
Honestly i wish stuff like Distraction, Red Herring, Dance with Me, Lucky break etc where meta. The current survivor meta is basically 4 extra health states - "i got greedy popping a gen? SB / DH away, cought? DS, Slugged to counter DS? Unbreak-a-Bill, my lemming of a teammate went down? BT"
I wish there were more perks to be used to evade chase / during chase in general instead of AFTER a succefull chase. Or more info perks for stealth gameplay.
Self Care is a strong perk though
People really need to get over the stereotype of the baby Claudette using self care and not taking care of teammates. There are tonnes of perks that are detrimental to the team if you don't use them right
Of course a medkit with lots of charges is better than self care but you don't always have the luxury of bringing one every game, let alone being lucky to find one in every game either.
That is the weirdest perk grid...
Hope listed as a very powerful perk, Fixated considered weak, Autodidact is considered 'strong', Repressed Alliance is considered -at all-, WGLF considered almost as strong as We'll Make It, Desperate Measures considered stronger than Botany, Appraisal (Almost no item is worth searching a chest for, it takes too much time)...
Considering Babysitter extremely reliable. Maybe for the aura reading, but half its effect demands a very specific scenario.
But I have to say that the most laughable thing is Diversion listed as 'extremely powerful and extremely reliable'. It is such a tragically bad perk that I honestly thought it was bugged for the longest time, since no killer seems to react to it. It is excessively situational and not actually useful.
Outside of the big meta 4 (Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike), there's a handful of perks that can be considered 'solid' at best.
Pretty much everything else is either unbelievably conditional (Must get 5+ skill checks while healing for Autodidact to have a positive value, must get a safe unhook off someone else first for Deliverance, killer has to walk under pallet for Power Struggle, etc.) or utterly pointless in terms of output value (Technician, Visionary, Deja Vu). And then there's perks that can be counterplayed extremely easily, like Tenacity or WGLF.
Survivors just have way too many duds. Of the last three survivors to be added, none of them have any perks that have any kind of relevance. Smash Hit is too unreliable, Fast Track only activates under the worst conditions and doesn't give nearly as much as it should to offset that. Elodie had nothing of value, Felix certainly had nothing of value. (Outside of his damn good looks)
Meanwhile, on killers, Blight had Undying, which became somewhat meta, and Trickster brought in Starstruck, which has made some killers way stronger.
There's always the option of experimenting with builds that utilise the playstyle particular to you, as opposed to the standard builds used by many others. @alkis has the right idea: Don't choose a build based upon what certain YouTubers, streamers or such say are the best; choose a build that suits what you want to achieve and feel free to experiment. Playstyle is much more important than perks anyway.
Here's some other builds that may be fun to try, but also quite effective and gives an idea of messing about with perks:
The Trickster (survivor build): Red Herring/ Deception/ Diversion/ Lucky Break
The Scout: Deja Vu/ Detective's Hunch/ Saboteur/ Dark Sense. Also use a map with the Glass Bead and Crystal Bead add-ons
The Prospector: Plunderer's Instinct/ Appraisal/ Ace In The Hole/ Built To Last
The Magician: Red Herring/ Repressed Alliance/ For The People/ Distortion. Use any item with an add-on that rapidly speeds up its effectiveness
The Soap: Flip-Flop/ Boil Over/ Breakout/ Power Struggle
The Avenger: Smash Hit/ Decisive Strike/ Head On/ Breakout with Torch item.
The Breaker: Saboteur/ Breakdown/ Deliverance/ Technician
Basically, if you're not worried about winning everytime, just experiment to see what fits your style! It may not be "the meta", but if it's a perfect fit to your style, then it may become your unique meta.
Brown medkit, you shouldn't need to heal yourself more than once per game unless it's a Stridor Spirit, in which case you're ######### anyway. Oni can be denied his power long enough if your team have more than 5 combined braincells. Can bring one every game. Alternatively, yellow medkit with +8 charges, can also be used every game.
Self Care is a garbage waste of a perk slot that can and will lead to the demise of your team. Learn to play injured.
If you're that scared, Inner Strength.
That's a bullshite "rule" about not needing to heal yourself more than once unless it's a Spirit. As if that's the strongest thing in this game (better killers such as Blight/Nurse, especially with certain add ons or perks). The purpose of survivor is to waste as much of the killer's time. Healing is heavily resetting the killer's pressure on survivors and making them waste more time than otherwise to down you. By trying to be a show off and refusing to heal when it's optimal, you're simply being a detriment to your team; it has nothing to do with how good you are at looping. People act like it's hard to get one smack on a survivor regardless of the skill. It really isn't, particularly when they're injured - one smack and you're down. Taking bodyblocks in situations such as if your teammate is being tunnelled also is a benefit of being healed; you can't do that when you're injured. And sometimes you need to do trade hooks.
As I was saying before, medkits are preferred, but let's not pretend that the lot of players have hundreds of medkits with hundreds of add ons at their leisure to bring every game, because they don't and you know that. People spend bloodpoints on multiple things in this game rather than the same specific survivor to get medkits to bring every game.
Self Care, when used right, is more than fine. Again people need to stop thinking everyone who uses Self Care is a rank 20 Claudette who doesn't do any objectives until she's fully healed. That's intentional ignorance about the perk and trying too hard to paint it in a bad light. Obviously if you're in a SWF you can coordinate your heals but in solo queue especially, and in general in this game, the more independent you are the better. The less time a teammate has to spend healing you is more time spent doing other objectives like saving or doing a generator.
Inner Strength is an alternative and personally what I prefer since I am relatively familiar with totem spawns; if I find one totem I can follow the hex pattern to find another generally except on certain maps. However you are limited to up to 5 heals, and your teammates can render your perk virtually useless if not entirely useless before you even get to a totem, if you even see one; some maps like Léry's and Midwich you can go an entire game without seeing a totem because of how well placed they are.
I personally have enough medkits to bring most games (I find survivor more fun without and I'm able to hold my own without needing healing perks/medkits) and the last time I used self care (and inner strength) was several months ago; not that long after I started playing this game, but I'm aware Self Care is a good perk when used properly, which after a certain amount of game sense you can easily start to use it right, especially when accompanied with Botany Knowledge to make healing faster. But this notion that healing makes you a worse survivor is kind of cringe. What's next, dropping pallets is a weakness too?
I completely agree. I have been experimenting a lot lately and having fun with a few new builds. I'm currently trying to make a bunch of different builds with atleast every single survivor perk and its going well.
I did Botany Knowledge/ Desperate Measures/ Blood Pact/ Leader. It's so fun having faster heals. People need to experiment and try out different things.
(I have some other fun builds if you want to know)
The things is, healing its already a waste of time, since what survivor should be doing are two things,
1) wasting as much time as possible, which what you said it's right, being healthy make you waste a lot more time than being injured but this statement get destroyed by the other things that survivor should be doing.
2) capitalizing on the time that other are wasting, aka repairing gen, basically that's the situation where the fact that other it's wasting time will pay off, ideally there will be three survivor on three different generator while one of them it's being chased, so a decent killer can hit a survivor in 30 second which means he will down them in 60 second ish now if the killer for example hit you before but then leaved for whatever reason, this will leave you three choices one, you use self care, and stay useless for 32 second, two you try to get healed by a teammate (which it's unreliable) and will potentially make you waste 16 second each, plus you could get interrupted. Third option, you stay on gen and pressure the killer, this's simply the best strategy you don't waste 32 second, and you use them to make progress on your only objective, this's why med kit are so powerful, you can heal yourself in a relative short amount of time, without bothering your teammate that are doing gens and one/two heal are enough for all the game considering you will not be just injured and left (unless it's a legion, but why the ######### would you heal against a legion) the only acceptable time to use self care it's when your on death hook, and even then you will either die if your time It's already in a bad spot, or if your winning a teammate can heal you a lot faster.
That's the simple reason why self care it's just a bad perk, there are more useful healing perk, an item that's 100000000 times better than self care, and staying injured it's the majority of the time a better strategy.
In terms of the first point, by being optimal and not healing you're not actually being a detriment. Obviously you adapt your strategy if, say, the killer has Tinkerer, however it's preferable to stay on a generator injured because you can hold w when you hear the terror radius. Holding w is such an incredibly strong strategy that everyone always underestimates. The reason I say you shouldn't need to heal yourself more than once is because you have teammates who heal you after an unhook. Unless the killer is playing hit and run, you shouldn't need to use your self heal until late into the match.
Self care wastes 32 seconds, 40nwith Sloppy. In a game where every second is important, with Hex: Ruin being so prevalent in the current meta, that is 16 (20 w/ Sloppy) seconds lost on a generator every time you heal yourself. Using a medkit is 8 (10) second lost, and Inner Strength is about the same with the incentive of encouraging you to find totems and thus delete Ruin. It takes too long and it's incredibly inefficient.
Inner Strength is a preferable alternative but again, if you're healing yourself 3+ times in the same game you're playing dbd wrong, the killer is a Spirit, Nurse, or Blight, or hit and run. You only need 1-2 totems each game. Because, again, teammates exist and they can heal you after an unhook.
In terms of not having enough medkits, you should very easily be able to get enough by levelling a character after a game. If you're levelling a character then play that character and your medkit supply is practically infinite. Even if you don't level them, I have about 200+ brown medkits on Claudette about around 140 on David. That's 340 games I can play of Survivor with a full 16 second heal and spend my points into other people, at which point they would have plenty of medkits on them for me to use instead.
And rather ironically, pre-dropping pallets into w key gaming and playing it safe is incredibly strong and incredibly underrated. Any chase killer gets their power hard countered, and there's only a few killers who can deal with it (Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Wraith, Clown).
So no, self care is garbage perk. Being comfortable while injured is one of the major splits between a good and bad survivor.
I wouldn't say that, Tenacity seems to be rated as okay or good, and Poised below mediocre.
Self Care could be seen as strong on the picture, and that's pretty fitting anyway.
Poised is garbage. But Tenacity is good. And Self-Care used properly.
Do it! Seriously, share any builds you like!
It's important to actually discover the depth that's actually available. I randomize my build every time and deal with what I've got. Heck, even Distressing without an accompanying perk (or being the Doc) I've found useful. The only perk which has done diddly squat for me is Slippery Meat. I've yeeted off more times without it than with. Slippery Meat could be redone to reduce how long a killer has to transport you, especially when perks like Deliverance trump it.
I do think windows is under rated tho
Powerful: Unbreakable, Adrenaline, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Borrowed Time, Iron Will, Spine Chill.
Kind of powerful: Lithe, Prove Thyself, WGLF, Deliverance, Self-Care, We'll Make It.
Alright(ish): Inner Strength, Any Means Necessary, OoO.
Good for solo queue: Bond, Kindred.
Rest of the perks: Meh.
self-care sucks it was good back then but people just use it all the time even with sloppy
i mainly play killer and I get a brain aneurysm when I see someone uses self-care
Did you throw those Perks randomly on the chart or are you really thinking that Alert, Phamarcy or Desperate Measures are good Perks?
When I say being optimal, I meant that in terms of circumstance. In the ones you mentioned where there is Ruin, you need to sit on generators to get them done, especially if it's a very mobile killer. If you have reliable teammates (particularly in a SWF), again, you can coordinate heals and Self Care let alone a medkit is not even necessary, but in solo queue? Relying on teammates? A joke. Even with Bond and/or Kindred I struggle to get people even in purple and red ranks who have enough sense to do decent plays, which is why I'm more prone to bringing a medkit in Solo Queue. Being as independent as possible in Solo Queue especially is going to benefit your team, especially considering how dysfunctional it is to begin with.
Being "optimal" as well depends on the circumstances. With Sloppy I wouldn't probably use Self Care if I was running it, although I don't see many people running Sloppy these days, or even mangled add ons for that matter. Ruin is moderately seen, although often accompanied without undying now in favour of pop.
If you're a veteran, which I'm presuming you are just due to your post count alone, then yes you're obviously going to have a stash of medkits. But the average person doesn't. There are two roles in this game people play, and many people spend bloodpoints trying to simply get teachables, to get max perks, or to prestige a character. Can you spend all your bloodpoints into specific survivors? Sure, but that's really limiting and not pragmatic for people who want to distribute the grind to other things in this game.
In a perfect world, healing perks like Inner Strength and Self Care wouldn't even be necessary because you would almost always have decent teammates who can coordinate plays with you. But unfortunately in the world of solo queue you often get potatoes with fried brains. You know, like those people who run away from you and waste a minute of your time to get healed in a corner when you have We'll Make It and the killer is on the other side of the map.
I don't really pay attention much to perks as killer but at least as survivor, I rarely see Self Care. In either role I don't mind it if it's used decently.
by what i mean is when they have oh boy they'll let you know they have they'll just use the perk 24/7
Didn't see this post at first when I replied so it's going to be separate.
I heavily disagree about healing in general being a waste of time. There are many instances where it's not optimal and/or even necessary (Plague, Legion), but healing in general is a benefit.
You're only stating specific scenarios about how Self Care would be bad to use as if that is the general scope of the game. As I've said before medkits are preferred so I'm not sure why people are acting as if I'm stating Self Care is better, let alone on par, with a medkit.
People really overrate staying injured. There's a time and a place for that, just like there's a time and a place to heal, but it's not a virtue. Resetting the killer's pressure by healing is the thing to do in many scenarios because one hook closer to a 3v1 can be the end of your team in a game that you otherwise could've won, and there are multiple scenarios where someone specifically needs to get healed but time needs to be spent towards other objectives.
Literally half of the perks in that picture that are "powerful", suck. Idk who made that chart but wow.
Also apparently pebble is the best perk in the game...good chart tho
Ok so first of all let me clarify, i don't think that self care it's worst than getting healed by someone else, they can be both equally bad, or good in some situation, but what I'm saying it's that the situation where healing its really necessary aren't many, outside of stealth killer (Myers, Ghostface, and wraith usually can get the first hit easily, so if your injured that will be your last hit, but they usually use sloppy butcher, and sloppy with self care it's a big oof moment) and if your on death hook or in a winning position, staying injured make you do generator "faster" (you save 20 second ish) which can mean a lot, again staying injured all game its bad, but the majority of the time survivor should be comfortable staying injured and being good enough at looping that they can waste enough time regardless.
"You don't have to heal and can just hold w when you hear the tr"
Me:*laughs in wraith main* lol. Stealth killers really force out the heals imo. Although tbf go ahead self care heal i run nurses as well. So i mean kinda lose lose.
My man put soul survivor on a graph to try and convince people its worth using.
Exactly, you could do the exact same thing for killer. Yeah, OP. Visionary is REALLY strong.
*Cackles in Inner Strength*
(also I talk about this later)
lol pebble the strongest and most reliable perk