Tier list based on power design
This is without addons
This is without addons
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I mean that makes sense but I still think that potential is over hyped because how many people are actually good enough to blink through walls and attack someone without seeing them or an aura first.
And so can nurse, but you can't loop nurse like every other killers which is why survivors always complain about her
Then how do I loop a nurse who can consistently land blinks?
Break line of sight, double back, don't be in the open, dont run around a wall like you do with every other killer.
The entire point of nurse is she forces survivors to be unpredictable.
You also act like there is no skill from the killer side to play nurse
Breaking line of sight won’t work when you’re injured especially with metal spoon. It’s not my choice to be in the open depending on maps( shelter woods blood lodge so on)
I know there is skill but that isn’t important when she pretty much invalidates the survivors skill
use iron will
Nobody has a problem when a survivor can invalidate a killers skill. and nurse doesn't invalidate anything just because you can't run her around a pallet for multiple gens doesn't mean there is nothing you can do against her.
A perk isn’t a counter
Im talking about nurse here not survivor
I think I agree with almost all of this but I would put Hag in the overhaul category with Twins and Nurse, because she has the exact same design problems that The Twins have.
I'm kiiiinda hesitant on Blight being a perfectly designed killer. Maybe once they patch j-flicking. As fun as it is to do, it is complete BS if you know where you can abuse it, and removes the one main counterplay that Blight has which is tight corners. Plus he's almost non-functional on console so that's a massive flaw in its own right lmao.
I thought the tier is based on design, not balancing.
Nurse, Spirit powers are the most creative I ever seen. The rich in basekit of PH & Oni is good too (eventhough new Freddy basekit is rich, but I feel like it just takes stuff from other killers, not unique).
I would put Huntress, Deathslinger, Clown,Trickster to the bottom. Throwing stuffs isnt creative.
A perk is a counter
Im also talking about nurse but ok
Twins need something better for a power, because as of now what their power was supposed to be doesn't work to well because of how slow it is and how quick survivors do gens. Instead of the devs trying to improve that, people realized that they're actually designed to slug and camp everyone. I know people rate them high on tier lists because of how good they are at slugging and camping, but to me personally that shows how bad they're and how bad of a mistake BHVR made when making the Twins. Old Legion is actually better than them, I'll go that far.
Huntress comes from how she has stood the test of time Even as the first ranged killer
Deathslingers zoning is too strong but his map pressure too weak
Clown is unique in how he doesn’t require precision he requires strategy
What happens if I’m running a perk build without iron will and get a nurse? I don’t know what killer I’m going against before the match
You were talking about it being not okay survivors had no counterplay but I was talking about nurse
So long as they make them less reliant on slugging and camping to win I’m good
The Nurse is a dumpster fire, literally a built in cheat made by the developers to piss off survivor mains who were looping killers on infinites.
But this tier list is so vague in it's representation it makes my brain hurt from the sheer idiocy of it... I love how there's a tier of "needs to be buffed / nerfed" ... okay? Which is it? Do they need buffs or nerfs? :/ I mean really man... ######### is this trash?
It was vague because it’s up to the developers what they do with these. It’s pretty obvious anyway which ones need buffs and nerfs
Nurse is OP but calling her a cheat is too far
If the person is bad with a Nurse, they're a joke to up against... if they're good with a Nurse, it's damn impossible to win against this player...
I've seen nurses pin point locations of survivors to the exact moment... it's literally ridiculous and you can't do anything about it... I once played against a nurse with 5 blinks and she would land on you on every blink and only hit you on the last blink as a flex... **** that character...delete her.
No, I didnt mean balancing. I mean creative in power design.
I mean, I could design a Mage throwing energy ball
I could design a mad veteran throwing grenade and do blast damage
I could design a archer shooting arrows with addon that can bounce on impact
Nurse & Spirit are op (and may not balance), but they're the most creative power design.
I get what you mean but having a killer who can teleport through anything and a killer who the survivors can’t react to are both terrible design ideas imo
You mean bad players like OhTofu who quit playing him? I couldn't care less if you play at rank 1 or not, it means nothing and doesn't reinforce your argument.
Also, Billy's animations have been bugged for quite a long time and the devs still haven't fixed them, so that adds up to him being much less fun to play.
His animations are a bit annoying tbf
Tofu probably just got bored of him since he’s been playing since launch
His overheat is fine and his addons needed changes
I love the twins, when I do take the time to play, it's one of the weird killers like twins that brings me back.. and it's still fun as hell to yeet a baby at survivors lol
Shes also the only killer who encourages pure raw skill. If you want to play her you have to be good as her skill floor is through the roof. Thats why most people rarely complain about a good nurse because you gotta respect the work they probably put in. Id say more killers like nurse would be good compared to say pyramid head doctor or freddy. Just hold m2 at loops.
How is doctor just holding m2 at a loop when it requires timing to do it right? Same with ph tho freddy is brainless
Doctor is the least in that but pyramid head every loop sword into the ground is pretty brainless in my opinion and this is coming from a person who plays ph a lot. Also old ph was literally sword into ground or m1 making it impossible on the survivor.
Old PH was brainless agreed but new PH is pretty fun in chase since unlike nurse he can’t just deny anything you do
Either way id still like to see another killer like nurse in the future. Blights pretty close as he encourages a lot of raw skill to get his downs instead of just saying no to the survivor imo. Not saying that makes ph doctor or freddy busted (well freddy is) but id rather use my skill with a killer over handholding like doctors shock blocking off pallets for like 3 seconds or ph range attacking through each pallet. It is good for the killers who aren't that good though which does make sense can't have every killer like nurse or noone would get kills in the low ranks and everyone would in high.
How is ph handholding and nurse not then? Also freddy is strong but compared to nurse is very weak
I mean to play nurse as a whole ya need to have accute muscle memory "how far do i have to hold blink or how far up do i need to look, if the survivors moving around quickly i have to predict where they will go to blink on top of them and get the hit" which even killers who have 4000+ hours seem to have trouble doing (otz has been doing multiple livestreams trying to master her) someone like ph you don't think is the same difficulty right? High risk high reward as if you miss your blinks a lot you lose horribly. Ph eh i miss a ranged attack itll be back in 2 seconds.
The ones I really think could use looking at:
Deathslinger - With his ability to quickscope, as a survivor your only real counterplay is to try and break line of sight and/or hope he misses. On some maps this is easier than others, but overall results in a feeling (against decent deathslingers) that your input as survivor doesn't really matter. You can guess when he'll shoot and try and juke, but it is just a guess and good deathslingers will just zone you while you zig zag.
Nurse - A good nurse will just win the game, because she ignores all means of defence. With tracking perks like infectious fright, nurse's calling, etc. you can't hide forever. If you're on an indoor map you might be able to delay your death a little, but that's it. The counter-argument that it takes a lot of practice to reach that level of play and most nurses aren't that good is true, but feels like a poor way to balance the game.
Pyramid Head - even with the nerf, he can still m1/power you at vaults, leaving few options as survivor. Just hold w and try and break line of sight and dodge the power. Not as oppressive as the others here, but still pretty frustrating.
Spirit - Even if it was made apparent when she was phasing, she'd still crap on you in a chase. As a survivor, you can run iron will all the time and hope she doesn't have stridor (spoiler, she does), other than that you can hold w and hope. It's again, very unfulfilling to go against.
The Twins - every other killer can camp hooks, but gives up all map pressure to do so. Twins doesn't. They can camp the hook AND chase people off gens, get downs, etc. This feels really frustrating to go against. Even if she misses with the baby pounce and you kick it, she gets it back in about 5 seconds. Then it's back chasing you at, what, 150% movement speed? While she goes back to camping.
Then there's other killers that are just annoying to go against: trapper (lol chase ends at random), hag (camp to victory), freddy (takes forever, maximum rewards for minimum effort), legion (hold m1 more), plague (solo queue meg insta-cleansing on getting infected), ghostface (roll a dice to see if you'll actually reveal him or he'll just expose you), clown (just really tedious, drop pallets early and run).
The well-designed killers, with decent powers that have a balance of skill/reward/counter-play: demo, billy, huntress (barring the dedicated server throwing trucks), blight, oni, leatherface, wraith, myers (barring some of the dumbest addons in the game). I'll even go so far as to say the doctor is alright, even though I know he annoyes a lot people.
And then there's pig, who is just sort of there.
He quit because he got bored killing everyone all the time. He hardly plays killer at all because he feels its too easy. The animations being bugged is kind of a silly reason to say hes less fun when they have 0 effect on his gameplay but alright man, you do you
Why is slugging an invalid playstyle? Just because a killer is good at slugging doesn't mean the killer isn't good.
The literal design of the killer IS TO slug. They created them in a way that Charlotte cannot quickly pick up the downs that Victor gets. They intended for Twins to slug. Be as efficient with Victor as possible, then clean up with Charlotte. Slugging is a big part of this.
I really don't understand the argument. They're a super good killer that excels at pressuring the map.
That’s the problem. Slugging isn’t fun for survivors and isn’t encouraged in the pip system
Twins have counters to prevent it, but nobody ever uses them because people have no idea how they work.
Both sides have counterplay and counterplay to the counterplay, you'll just never see that because most games are just 4man slugs at 3 gens against potatoes.
I don't go by the pip system for what's considered a win or a good game, so if that's where we're going to disagree, then that's all there is to the argument, really.
An entire game of tug-of-war where they're constantly fighting against my slugging and getting gens done while doing so, and I'm fighting against their pressure by keeping up the injures and downs with Victor, eventually either ending up in a 4man slug or all 5 gens done is a game that I consider to be very interesting, and they only happen when people actually understand how to play against Twins.
Winning (at least by my definition) a game like that is satisfying. If it ends in a 4man slug (where I definitely got hooks, didn't just 1-hook everyone), so be it. That was a full game where both sides played well and one came out on top. Just because I didn't get 8-12 hooks doesn't mean I didn't win.
That's a true Twins game, but as I said, you only get them here and there because of how many people lack knowledge of counterplay against Twins.
And as I do play survivor, this is fun to play against, but my teammates have to understand to kick Victor, stay on top of heals, group up when necessary, always keep Victor on the back, pre-drop pallets, hop in lockers when injured/far away from Charlotte, etc. None of that is difficult. The unfunness of Twins, from survivor experience, is the fault of the survivor teammates.
Omg that tier list was supossed to reply to another post and i oop-
Why is hag towards the bottom, Teleport is such a cool design, all that need buffed is that survivors can not remove the traps with a flashlight
Oni is fairly reliant on slugging as well. And yet you placed him high on the list?
Difference is oni doesn’t have his power up all the time (or on a 5 second cooldown!) and doesn’t require slugging to win.
Oni only need top knot nerfed
And Victor isn't always available. Not to mention, he can be crushed by survivors.
Again 5 second cooldown
Not if survivors hold on to Victor for the full recall duration.
Plus, you're downplaying how punishing it is for Victor to get crushed.
I dont really get what you mean with "power design". I assume you mean how fair they are?
In that case I disagree with the most. I dont get why Plague, Wraith and Clown are at the decent spot, they all got changes for a reason in the past. And future probably. Also why is nurse and spirit so low? They have well designed powers regardless of the streangh.
More so how well their power works for dbd. Nurse is so low since she breaks the fundamentals of the game and legion since they’re just so weak
survivors holding Victor doesn’t really do much anymore as it gives Charlotte time to pressure the other 3
It can be punishing true but her cooldown is still low so you can get the snowball going again rather quickly
Ah I see, thx for the explenation. Well I stil stick on the decent ones still, Plague canceles Med Kits completly out and the Killer has a boring ass chase with the only 1 health state most of the time since they are just half long. Dmg vomit also is unfun to go against since there is barely anything you can do about it.
Clown has a very boring chase aswell, against a good Clown only pallets are the counterplay, you just keep drop them like you are back at rank 20 at your first game. Wraith is apperantly unfun cuz he often "suprises" you from other sides and that leads to quick downs. Same debate goes to ghostface and scratched mirror myers.
You can get the snowball going again quickly with Oni too. Not to mention, Oni's power is an insta down. Which is why you see a lot of games where an Oni player wins the match with four or five generators still up.
Can we just agree that both killers encourage slugging?
Both do agreed but one can win without it against decent survivors that’s the difference
Depends on what you mean by decent. I don't think an Oni player can win against good survivors without slugging.
Also, even if Oni is less reliant on slugging than the Twins, his power still greatly rewards slugging. Which means you're going to see a lot of slugging with both killers.
Yes and I wish more killers would be so unique! Make another slower killer that relies on their power. It's better than throwing knives that take ages to down survivors, with recoil and just being a worse huntress lol.
This is a joke right?