The reason behind all this hate to the LGBT thing
I've see a lot of people saying that half of this community is homofobic and all that things, but I don't think they really are.
I think there are 2 valid reasons for the complains about the LGBT theme:
1- I think that many players are concern (including me) about the new chapter being focus on LGBT because we don't want BHVR to use that as a shield if they create a boring bad killer and 6 boring useless perks that no one is going to play. People want BHVR to create new interesting and fun mechanics. If they do that, I bet you that only a few idiots will still crying about that.
2- Politicians from all the world use the LGBT flag on their campaings as an evil way to get votes, so maybe all this people just don't want DbD to become political. I know BHVR wont do that but you have to understand that a lot of players use this great game as a way to live in another fun and fascinating reality.
Comments
Then yes, I agree with you, a gay character should be added, I think folks like me were just concerned they were gonna add a drag queen as the representative of all gay folks, when most gays I know look normal (i.e little to no makeup), and the reason? Being gay isn't their defining trait, and the devs accidentally doing that is what some people like me are thinking might happen, but if they can pull a Yui and just HEAVILY imply their gay, then that's fine, more power to gays, and hopefully some bomb perks while they're at it.
Wrong person
Why would BHVR have to imply they're gay when heterosexuals get explicit confirmation, though? Let's treat people equally, shall we?
Oh I won't, I've got no money, but I still want perks, and yes, I care, a lot of my friends that don't have forums do, and it's apparent there are lot of quiet people on these forums that think so too, but aren't willing to say out loud. And it's not ruining the game, it's the idea that a videogame is being politicized, both for left and/or right, and I already said that I don't care if a gay character is added to someone else here, just don't politicize them, maybe heavily their gay and touch on gay people's issues using the character's story, like how Yui is a front for women's issues, but they still painted her to be a real character that doesn't feel forced, and that can everyone can sympathize with, and they can do that for a gay character too. I mean, Robin in Strangers Things is one of my favorite characters ans she's gay but that doesn't matter, she still had great character development which hit the jackpot for me.
Then sounds great, I'm all for a gay character.
A soldier in a war game having a prosthetic arm is ridiculous? That's actually very realistic: https://www.army.mil/article/209083/soldier_amputees_have_more_options_than_ever_for_redeployment
I nervous that if it isn't LGBTQ what might happen.
People who hyped themselves up into believing it was an LGBT character will be disappointed.
Dude, the point is they went overboard with the agenda in the opening trailer and lots of BF fans were unhappy with the game's politicization, just look at the trailer's like to dislike ratio for proof of that.
Well well well.
At first I was going to start with something like "looks like schools in north america are even worst than they are here in Spain, because you cant understand a 10 lines text". But English si not my first lenguage, so I will just assume that you missunderstand me because I can not explain my point in a proper way. I will try to do it again and I'm sure that you will understand we are defending the exact same thing.
When I say:
"Politicians from all the world use the LGBT flag on their campaigns as an evil way to get votes"
I think that I'm very clearly saying that some politicians use this simbols as a way to manipulate people, taking advantage of people's suffering and hopes in an evil way (I used the "evil" word to point at it) to get power for themselves, even when they dont give a ######### about LGTB people.
That's what I mean when I talk about LGTB and political stuff. I know being gay or lesbian or trasgender has nothing to do with politics. But I also know that politicians are using this sensitive topic in their advantage. For example, here in Spain, if you are LGTB but you are right wing, you will be harrased by some left wing activists. The same people that carry the LGTB flag harrasing gay people because they don't think the same way they do. I know a guy that was spit in college because he was gay while carrying a right wing flag in his bagpack. I think this is repulsive, but sadly its a pretty common thing. And because this is pretty common (if this is like that in Spain and South America, don't pretend this is not the case in your contry), SOME people are creating a FALSE correlation between this two things.
Thats why when SOME people see the LGTB flag, they automatically think about politics. And that's why SOME players are affraid of it.
I didnt even say that this was my case, but because I have empathy and those things I think that this is the way some players feel.
I think that a lot of people are falsely manipulated to believe that LGBT is a political thing when IT IS NOT. But sadly politicians don't care about whats right or wrong. "What does LGBTQ has to do with politics". Nothing, but sadly politicians dont care. They will use it to get votes if they can, the same way they will use racism, fear to terrorism, national pride... In South America some politic activists use the phrase "lo personal es politico", wich mean "personal things are political things". Absolutley terrifing, I know.
So that was my hole point. Many people FALSELY believe that LGTB is a political thing (when it is not), and that's why they don't want it in their games. Im sure that BHVR will do a nice job creating an interesting character that has nothing to do with all that political #########, so our LGBT buddys (and everyone else :D) will get a lot of fun with a character they can relate with, and they will have a nice place to scape from all this political ######### we are living right now.
You said that being LGBTQ isn't political, but it is, otherwise people wouldn't worry about being cancelled for saying something homophobic
Being LGBT is no different from having a certain skin tone. You can't wake up one day and decide not to be white or black or whatever any more than you can decide to have a different orientation. It is not political for people to exist just because they have certain characteristics that certain groups dislike.
As for being "cancelled", that's called capitalism. If a company decides you are a detriment to it, they can terminate your employment to protect their bottom line.
Sorry, why should we leave our politics out of *our* game?
I think that when someone says that "we should leave politics out of our games", is not talking about politics in CoD or MGS. Have you ever seen some of those Hollywood celebrities telling people what they should vote??? Well, I think that this is not okay.
I love economics, history, and politics. And yea having it in my games is awesome. But when that game tells you "if you dont vote this or that then you are a bad person", then we have a problem.
Going to go off on another tangent here, but this topic is a mess as it is
Remember when female leads started becoming a thing in video games, and how "political" and "problematic" that was? How it was going to "corrupt young boys" because gasp there's a female on screen? And now there's tons of games with female leads and those arguments were just... wrong? How to the only reason it was "political" was because people made it as such. Now change the word "female" to LGBT and here we are
When you say "BFV's opening trailer literally had a Scottish woman with a prosthetic arm as their lead trailer character, that's just ridiculous" that doesn't sound like they're going overboard at all. It sounds like they're being realistic when it comes to soldiers.
If you read carrefully you will see that I didnt defend anyone. I said that because some pople feel that way and then they are hating on the new dlc. Thats why the title goes "Why all the hate...". I'm just doing this post because some other posts say that "half of this community is homofobic", and I think they are not, but they have been manipulated to believe LGTB is something that it is not.
No no, don't change it now, you brought it up, and I elaborated, don't be like that just because I answered your question from experience.
Just becauase you understand someones point you are not defending them. If you dont understand their point, then you can not talk to them. If you understand why they hate this, then you can have a conversation about why they are wrong. If you dont understand them, then the only thing you can do is fight. And I dont like fighting others, I like understanding their points of view and talking to them.
You might mean your game, you're very mistaken. It's my game as well. I want an LGBT survivor.
.............. You must not know a whole about WW2 do you? There was Title IX at the time, the only female soldiers you had would of been French, Russian, or German in 1945, but moving away from gender, look at the British commando with a JAPANESE katana on his back (it should be in a sheath) fighting on the western front. That doesn't make any sense, and if I remember right, he was wearing shades like bruh, at least they got The Last Tiger though, they still humanized the Germans while exposing the SS's cruelty towards not just civilians, but the Wehrmacht too.
Literally in the post I quoted:
"Scottish woman with a prosthetic arm".
He has a problem with a Scottish woman with a prosthetic arm in his trailer for COD. That's literally what he said.
Wow, for a group who likes to tell us that "it's just a game. Who cares?" you sure do care about not-straight-white-men being in your games. A lot. LOL
No dude, I said MY GAME, meaning my own opinion, we could talking about the same exact game but be advocating for completely different things, when I said my game, I realized that was a typo meant to "my games" referring to BFV and COD WW2 as prime examples.
Well to be honest I only read the part where u said "Sorry, why should we leave our politics out of *our* game?". So my response was to that statment.
Because it's political if it's forced down, same applies if some guy made a game about glorifying national socialism or stalinism, it's not just forced gays I'm against, but also many right-wing ideas, i guess I just hate politics as a whole when talking about extremes.
Ah yes, the infamous "trans girls dominating women sports" argument. For your information this argument is always based on 100% disinformation and fearmongering so you should maybe start being more critical at your sources because if you don't then other people will start making decisions for you.
I mean trans athletes have been competing since 2003(when the International Olympic Committee drew up guidelines) and so far the superiority of the trans women you speak of has not really come through.
At least you are honest about being queerphobic in your writing.
Define, precisely and explicitly, a way in which an LGBT character could be added that you wouldn't feel was "forced".
PS: You can say Nazism, there's no need to use the full red herring name they gave themselves.
Then your response is discarded since it literally adds nothing to the conversation he and I were having. Not only that but it's blatantly false.
Gotcha. Now I get it! It wasn't just one game. You meant all your games. Understood.
Thunderous_6703:53 pm
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1979907#Comment_1979907
Because it's political if it's forced down, same applies if some guy made a game about glorifying national socialism or stalinism, it's not just forced gays I'm against, but also many right-wing ideas, i guess I just hate politics as a whole when talking about extremes.
How is it forced! Asking for a ######### gay character is "forcing" it? Like, #########.
You said being LGBTQ isn't political, but I know too many examples to just stop there, YOU brought it up, and you did try to change it, I think you already knew i wasn't about DBD to address your question, but rather the question itself, but whatever, go ahead have at it.
Yes, they made the correct statement that the existence of human beings with certain characteristics is not political.
Being LGBT is not political per se. I'm not making any political statement by liking girls. I just like them, full stop.
If LGBT people attend rallies or ask for rights that they as LGBT people don't have (let's say gay marriage, for example), it's because their countries do not grant them those rights solely for being LGBT. In my country a couple of lesbians can get married. In other countries they can not. So they ask for those rights.
That does not mean that being LGBT is "being political". One must ask for one's rights when they are not granted to oneself. But no one wakes up and decides "hey, I'm going to be LGBT" to make a political statement. You just are. Politics come afterwards, when your country makes your life more difficult solely for being LGBT.
There are het characters in this game. There should be non-het ones, too, imo. It's not as if you're gonna loop the killer around the map carrying a huge ass LGBT flag. It's gonna be mentioned in the lore. They will mention that, for example, the girl used to live with her girlfriend before the entity took her away. The same way they mentioned David & Felix's girlfriends. That's it. And if you have a problem with this, you are LGBTphobic, full stop. I'm not telling you to change what you think. Just to admit what you are instead of trying to hide it between bullshit statements about LGBT = politics, or about it potentially hurting the game by driving people away from it.
Being LGBT in and of itself isn't political. Taking rights away from a certain group because they're a certain way IS political. Not treating everyone equally despite being put into different categories is political.
If you don't care SSSOOOO much, then why are you even here?
Never played BFV so no idea what war its about, just that it's a war game.
Based on all the issues you just listed the problem wasn't sjw propaganda or politics as you were trying to make it seem originally, the problem was they were just inconsistent with the time period and the basics of weaponry.
You still used it as a reason to say "DBD could become political" so you are implying that by putting something lgbtq in your game you're probably going to become political. Which again implies that being lgbtq is a political statement of sorts.
Also, based off of the sort of [bad word] I've seen people posting, I think you have the right idea for people who are actually legitimately worried about how they portray the character. I do think there are a lot of homophobic people who play the game though that would either quit the game or make the person playing the character's experience as miserable as possible for "daring to use that character in their match."
Alright here's an example, having the person be a drag queen and fit and all/most gay stereotypes with a poorly written character description that focuses on more addressing social issues rather than character development, consider Adrian in "The mist", he's a bi boy with the least amount of character development compared to the other main characters and yet he's the sexualized one sexually assaulting a boy that bullied him and ######### his girl best friend at found in the end, he felt really sexualized, it felt wrong. Now consider Robin from Stranger things, or the teacher from the one Kevin Hart movie about him getting a GED, both are gay, both have some character development, both are funny, and both help advance the plot of the story, and being gay isn't their defining traits, it's just their orientation, which is fine by me, as long as the character development is there.
So now let's wait and see which the devs go with before judging, alright?
Also, social issues can be a part of character development. People get involved with social issues all the time. It just sounds like you don't like social issues to be mentioned at all.
Oh yea I was waiting for that. Because seeing someone as a human being and talking to them is something horrible. If they have an opinion you consider is bad they should be silence. Because instead of letting bad ideas come out to light and then pointing and them and telling them "NO YOU ARE WRONG" we should ban them from everywhere.
Instead of givingthem the chance to change their opinions and talk to us, we should ban them because we are the gods of truth.
Instead of studying and understanding those ideas, we should just ban everyone talking about it
Instead of letting bad people show up so we know who they are, we should let them lurk into an echo chamber so their ideas keep growing up, like worms in the shadows.
And, of course, everyone with a bad idea should not have the chance to express it. Because all animals are equal but some are more equal than others. And I guess that you will tell everyone else what is a bad or a good idea, and you will decide who can or can not express themself in public.
Your authoritarianism is terrifyng.
Doesn't that prove my point though, if being LGBTQ weren't political, then there would be no rallies, yeah it's true America's come a long way but it isn't perfect, being gay is just as political as being coloured, it might always happen right away, but there gonna be plenty of times where you are confronted about it, or shamed for it, other than the WNBA, I don't know any other place where Straight people have to fight for rights the same way as gays, and as far the lore you mentioned, I'd be perfectly ok with that, I forgot that they only BRIEFLY mentioned David's girlfriend, see like that, it works just fine that fine and vice versa.
Originally I came to clarify someone's thought, then I got dragged into something else
Let's all try to calm down a bit. I know it's a heated and sensitive topic, but attacking each other is not the way to go. That goes for both sides, we need to be welcoming to each other. This helps much more making people understand instead of trying to attack and go after them, from either sides.
I would also try to make people understand that being LGBTQIA+ is not political. My existence is not political, me attempting to get more rights for myself and others... if you want to call that political, sure, then do so, but I don't think it is, because it's about human rights.
Here is a interesting thing I learnt about media and advertisement when I was studying media design in my apprenticeship. It's also why it is important that representation exists.
When you do advertisement, many times you assess the region and you will use what the region is familiar with. Why? Because it's their "normal." This can literally mean for white people in an area they won't see pamphlets, flyers, posters, etc. with people from different countries that aren't their group of people. Before anyone wants to throw pitchforks at me: This happened at my previous workplace where I did my apprenticeship. I added pictures of diverse people of different ages and backgrounds to their advertisement material, I was given creative freedom. This included people that weren't heterosexual. I had to remove all of it and just make it their "normal." I'm not throwing pitchforks here or whatsoever. But this is a genuine thing.
Whether you believe it or not, but media, advertisements, etc. presenting only one type of thing causes that this is the "normal." This includes orientation and even people from different countries and ethnic backgrounds. During my apprenticeship I had another workplace and that previous boss rooted for me whenever I made my advertisement diverse, with different people of different backgrounds. For this job I had to got another town that's diverse in a lot of aspects, including LGBT+ and different kind of ethnic backgrounds, but generally, he was awesome. My other boss was nice too, but some customers wouldn't want anything else on their advertisement material thye didn't consider "normal."
This is why representation matters. It is sad, but we essentially need to be normalized, because for a lot of years we have not been. We're here, we exist and we're just humans too who would love to see ourselves also presented like anyone else. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
Paradox of tolerance. Your ideals assume everyone's being honest, but extremists are dishonest by nature. They use dog whistles, doublespeak, and so on, and they hide behind flimsy excuses like "it's just a joke" when they say something that shows their true colors.
I know social issues are ok, I said "focusing MORE" on social issues than character development, I didn't say you can't talk about them, just make sure you're actually writing the character for the character, and not an agenda by the end of it.
And I said social issues are a form of character development. Social activists exist, you know. Look at Yui.
Your point was that I was defending them because I was giving them a chance to conversate, so yeah I think I perfectly addressed your point. Maybe you don't understand what I said because you don't understand how dangerous you point was.
God it's taking all my patience not to rage at you right now because you're clearly missing the point.
Being LGBT is not political per se. I don't make any sort of political statement by being a lesbian, I just am! What's the political statement on liking girls? I just like them! The same way I like playing DBD, or eating ice cream, or watching horror movies! I just like them! How is that a ######### political statement?
LGBT people EXIST, and politics come /afterwards/ because most societies and governments are LGBTphobic so LGBT people have to fight for their rights. Being LGBT per se IS NOT political, LGBT people shouldn't even be asking for their rights because we should already ######### have them! But we sometimes don't, so we attend events to ask for them! That is it. I wouldn't ######### attend them if I didn't have to! Jesus Christ.
Edit: also, just noticed, I don't know why the heck you assume I am American. I am from Argentina. I have nothing to do with that "America has come a long way" blah blah blah, and you shouldn't assume that everyone in the thread is from America.
No dude, I mean being overly stereotyped, you could still hold some stereotypes for fun, but if they hold all of them, then that's becomes their defining trait, like its kinda unrelated, but Troy in "Community" starts out as jock who makes friends with Abed (a stereotypical nerd), but as time passes and becomes clear that Abed would be getting more development than Troy, Jeff Winger literally says "Your identity as a man, is defined by your friendship, with another man." What is it with you guys always trying to dumb down everything I say, like dang I could write a paragraph and someone just responds to 1/3 of what I said.
You need to hit the Enter key more often and break up your text. Nobody likes to read walls of text.
You can't complain that people don't read what you write when you don't even make the most basic effort to convey your thoughts in a legible manner.
Well that was why I made this post. I see people fighting eachother without understanding what the other part is saying. I think that I understand why there is hate on the LGBT topic, so I pointed out. That way, the next time someone is talking to a guy hating this representation, he will understand why does the other guy feels that way. If you want to convince someone, first you need to understand what he is saying. Most people here think that every "I dont want a LGBT survivor" threat is because "they hate gay people". No they don't. They have other reasons to reject it, and because I think those reasons are wrong and are very easy to debate, then I just told everybody "ey, instead of calling them homofobic, try to explain them that they are not understanding this or that".
You've automatically made this political by even bringing this up.
Your first point had a s m a l l amount of merit but then saying that people use the LGBT+ flag as a way to grab votes and thus should be assumed BHVR will be using this as a shield to protect from criticism automatically paints the LGBT+ community as something to be attacked (I understand this was not your intention but,). This paints our community as though we're this barrier to people having rights and the people and parties who support LGBT+ in your words "evil".
No party would use the LGBT+ flag and false support as a way to get the voters they wanted. Bigots are too set on being bigots to see past themselves. No party that is against the LGBT+ is going to pretend to support them (the only example I've ever been able to see or hear of about this is Trump but he's just honestly a bit messed up in the head, that's a topic for a different thread).
I'm sure you were trying to create peace or common ground but honestly you've just come across as rude and frankly kind of homophobic.
I think somewhere on this forum, I did write a lot about Yui so I won't get into that again, but there is line with social issues although it more so varies on how it's written and it's tone, with Yui she was a feminist IN JAPAN, which is already very brave on it's own, and the way they represented female stalking and sexual harassment when she fought her stalker was brilliant, it was captivating, Yui is an example of being able to right about social issues without it being forced. Even Rin covers this when she gets bullied by boys for being good at kendo and she ends up killing them at the end, and agian, Caleb with old capitalism and why monopolies are dangerous.