Someone Necroed this by accident because first post weirdness plz ignore
So in the 1v4 asymmetrical game not only does the 1s special offering that is only found every now and then in late game bloodwebs and not at all ingame through chests and luck, but also it is effectively somewhere between useless to a waste of time, With keys on the other hand even if they are nerfed to close the hatch behind the one person escaping, they are still
An early escape
A free 2 man escape at 3 gens done because the hatch opens for the last survivor
Able to be found in chests and have perks that increase the likely hood of finding them in chests
Able to have a team of 4 bring them in with no actual way to challenge them now other than throw your build into the trash for franklins and hope one or more isn't immersed the entire game, and if 3 or more gens get done by 4 people (childsplay) late game is just going to become a bunch of immersed survivors looking for their easy escape
Literally the only nerf you could do with keys that could be on par with moris would be this
Keys now only open the hatch if you are the last survivor
But knowing the devs this is highly unlikely so for a while we get to deal with keys running rampant, which is why the community was asking for both at the same time not one or the other
Comments
I'm not lying, I literally said "no on is bringing 4 BNPS", go and check the reply you quoted with your picture, you're the one that made this pedantic, you couldn't even see that I said "no one is using 4 BNPS" and "BNPS aren't being used as much as PGTW" and see that the "no one " was not a literal "no one". I'm not lying, you're just decided which parts of my comment to see or not, doesn't make you any less of a cheater either way.
I only use moris for dailys and challenges and I've been saving them for after the second hook anyway. No change for me!
This is a great and long over due change.
yes and your first point was literally no one brings bnps, jumping ship because you were proved wrong without admitting you were wrong, something im not going to deal with, either own up to you mistakes or stop trying to discuss with me
also its not cheating to have a dot in the middle of your screen for a killer you don't play if survivors can have stretched res which is arguably 10 x more impactful
You can't know what the devs will do. Not defending them or anything, but as a killer main I personally thought that moris were a bigger problem. I deal with keys at least twice a day, and I've never had them used because I killed them too quickly, even when I wasn't playing Nurse. If I were in charge of balance, I would use this as a band-aid fix until we could nerf keys, and then do the real fix to moris at the same time. Keep in mind that keys are much harder to rework, due to them having add-ons that also need fixing. My biggest issue with the mori change it that it wasn't a shadow-nerf, like it should have been, and now everyone will spam moris until they're nerfed.
definitely keys need to be nerfed to, make it is only usable by 1 person only to go from hatch. so survivor still aim their objective to finish the generator.
Actually yes they are. Both are the same thing,(or were at least) from my PoV. They both allowed you to circumvent your objective and only do a small percentage of it, but still win.
Actually, no they aren't.
Besides chest keys, which almost everyone agrees are BS, you can counter a key if you see it in a lobby, you can't see a mori before a match has started and you have no means of stopping a mori besides "don't get downed" which is laughable. A mori can be used within 2 mintes of a game starting, you can't use a key that fast, you have to complete your objective a fair amount before you can even consider using a key, a killer had to hook a person once and then could end their entire match.
You can see them as the same all you want, but they aren't even close.
I don't mind that moris were changed first. I feel people can objectively see they were way stronger. I am a little bitter over how they were changed though, as they've been straight-up dumpster tiered. Why would I bring a very rare item that cuts down on BP gains to...what? Save 2 seconds? It's also not going to solve the issue of being tunnelled off of first hook, as the people who did that will now just camp the hook to second stage. It's not like people who used old moris gave a ######### about pipping anyway.
There were so many better ways this could be implemented, and I really feel that should be where the frustrations lie instead of comparing them to keys which really devalues the issue.
Moris are the killers version of keys. Just because they're WAY more powerful doesn't mean that they aren't the same thing. Both allow you to do part of your objective and get a win you didn't deserve.They quite literally do the EXACT SAME THING.
it was a shadow nerf, moris are already nerfed
Oh, ok. Well, that's what I get for assuming that the devs would be incompetent. I'm away from home, so I'm not able to play RN. Thanks for telling me!
They fail to see all the nerfs survivor add-ons have gotten , The only people the Mori change affects are bots who tunnel off first hook and insta kill a survivor and try to act like they're a god at the game , I'm glad it got changed so now those people get ######### all over I have zero respect for any killer that tunnels and immediately Moris and tries to act like they're good at the game with trash talk in the end game
even if I did do something like that "only to people with keys regular players only got deathhook mori" I wouldn't trash talk the endgame chat, every game ends with a gg whether I win or lose, its how the survivors react to the gg that depends on if I roast them or not
Yea well that's you and not the majority of the players who do that, not only that but people comparing Moris to keys should understand that people have to be dead for the hatch to spawn unless all the gens are done first in which case you lost anyway and they'll take the gate out, with the old Mori you could literally take a survivor out the game in the first minute or two if you chose to tunnel immediately, that's like the equivalent of me doing one gen and then popping out the hatch for an escape which isn't possible , if anything it's more closely balanced to the key now with the way it works.
You are going full force now defending keys lmao. It's only fair keys get gutted as well. I don't mind mori nerf but they are now just glorified kill animation.
BNP gets used up and you need to get more in the bloodweb. Pop is a perk you can always have on. Even if BNP was/is stronger you're going to see it less than pop because you don't have to farm pop uses and hope RNG gives it to you.
If BNP was a perk or something then maybe we could use usage amounts to compare, but as is now that's not a great point to bring up. I still see a decent amount of BNP's, my guess is its just that they're not infinite that I don't see them even more.
I wouldn't say the nerf was too much, but I don't really use mori's often.
However they really should have nerfed keys at the same time. Mori's were one of the answers to keys, and now its much weaker while keys kept their strength. I expect even longer survivor ques going forward, can't say I blame people for not wanting to play killer at this point.
Wouldn't really call 5 gens minimal effort. Either way if you don't have even 1 killed by the time all 5 gens you very likely still lose the game key or not.
im happy for keys to get changed but im not going to pretend they're the same strength when they aren't
your comment would make sense if i was defending keys, don't think I ever said keys should stay the same, infact I'm sure i didn't so yes, I guess I was defending keys by saying they aren't as strong as mories, i guess? lmao
mori's do literally nothing now. how could they be stronger than an item that actually allows someone to escape from a trial despite having lost the objective battle? or was that sarcasm?
you seem new here so let me tell you how to message this person in a way they get notified of your response,
the quote button on the bottom left of their message pops this small text box seen above into the window, it both shows a message you are responding to and also notifies the individuals so they are more likely to see it
Unfortunately the entire internet cannot understand anything that isn't straightforward and direct. If you use colorful language like "the evening sky was lit ablaze," some egghead will call you out and say, "no, I was out in the evening and I saw no fire in the sky, you're a liar!"
It's really sad, honestly. Months ago people were complaining that the descriptions for items, add ons, and perks were too vague. "Extremely, slightly" is too imprecise, they wanted exact numbers. While I can sort of see where they're coming from, it creates boring conversation to speak in terms that literally bore me to sleep. I'm literally falling asleep at my desk over these precision-nazis.
So Moris are useless now, cool.
Might as well remove them from the game.
But SWF, blending, keys, maps, infinity heals, 12+ pallets per map, loops, spin2win, DS, unbreakable, BT, dead hard, adrenaline are totally fine and do not need to be looked at.
Cool story bro.
Yep. It’s ok for second chance perks to work together; but we can’t have those pesky killer slowdown perks working together. That wouldn’t be fun (for survivors).
I think the change is positive overall, but I think the decision to drop this change, whether it was ready or not, without addressing the equivalent problem on the survivor side was downright bad.
Don't get me wrong, I know keys and moris need a change, but I just didn't want to see the devs mess it up by doing one before the other
I legitimately just can't understand the mentality of releasing one change without the other. This is what happens when a game has no competition, there's no pressure to make good decisions.
None of those things move the goalposts for an individual match the way that moris did. Much of it has counterplay, Some stuff, particularly keys, need to be remade as well. Those things should not hold up other fixes that dramatically improve game health, like today's mori patch.
I dont get why your trying to compare 2 completly different things. Keys still allow the killer to play the entire game. But a mori only allows someone to play for like 30 seconds when they get farmed off the hook and tunnled down and killed. Most of the time there isnt even anytbing tbey could do about it.
A key on the other hand, the killer still gets to do everything they want, they still get to hook survivors and everything. But the survivor gets out a bit early AFTER being able to play the game.
What really looked more unfair to begin with? A salty killer not being able to get that 4k cuz of a key? Or the survivor who only got to play 1 min of the game because of an offering?
There is no argument here to be made. Just baby killers that are mad about not being able to tunnel people off their first hook.
I understand that argument, but what about removing the chances of getting a key from a chest? They should have been as easy to remove as the changes for mori.
While I agree that both need some adjustments, I do think the priority will cause issues. I'm finding survivor queues long enough as it is currently and If keys now become more common I can only see fewer people wanting to play killer.
Nah that's BS. This is just the Dev's continuing to baby their survivors, while sticking Killers faces in the Mud. The least they could of done was remove Key's from chests - Like literally everyone suggested to them.
There's literally no excuse for this BS.
why would I compare 2 different things in the same game of the same power level to each other when they are constantly talked about together and provide the same means to an end, idk just because I wanted to I guess
heres my comparisons for you, both a key and a mori allow you to cut certain aspects of the game short, killers cutting down hooks on survivors and survivors cutting down the gens they need to finish to escape
now remember that its a 4v1, there are 4 survivors or more right now for every killer, there is a higher amount and higher chance they have and or use keys than the killer uses moris, and yes I get that they are more situational but with a minimum of 4x as much keys that situation will happen more than you think. and its not a fun one, to this extent both of them need to be changed, but preferentially both would have been changed at the same time not one before the other or vice versa, if keys were nerfed I would still be on here complaining that happened before moris instead
and yes now baby wraith 8895 might whine that he didn't get his first hook mori anymore, but im just complaining that the balance of the game has been temporarily thrown off because once sides quintessential cut the game shorter item has been nerfed before the other one and not at the same time
Mods, I know you have no control over how the devs work, and good lord I do not envy you right now trying to control the absolute hell this nerf has unleashed.
With that out of the way, the REAL issue with the mori nerf, the way I see it.
Moris needed a nerf, plain and simple. So do keys, both provide too much of an advantage in their own right, and feel like a 'cheap win' from the other side's perspective. The issue is twofold.
1- Since many players pair the two together (both are very power addons that allow games to be ended early or more quickly), nerfing moris without any kind of announcement while saying 'oh keys will come later... sometime... maybe' basically lets survivors blow through all their keys, driving killer frustrations even higher since survivors get extra time to play with their keys while for killers its just 'SURPRISE THEY USELESS NOW!'
2- This is the last straw in a LONG LONG LONG line of what killers have perceived as slights against them in recent months. POP gets nerfed for giving killers 'too much time', yet DS remains as is when the same argument can be made against it and people have been complaining about how abusable it is since its introduction into the game. This on top of patches that were almost entirely killer nerfs with survivor buffs, most likely based on stats of kill ratios that were HIGHLY inflated by hook suicides because once the DC penalty went kaput, guess our immersive mash space to not die turns into a convenient 'press space to keep from unofficially DCing the match). Then comes the new chapter, which gave us 3 killer perks that did literally nothing because they were broken, a new killer that held himself hostage more often than not by consistently getting stuck in terrain, but most importantly fundamentally breaking multiple killers completely unrelated to the new content (Legion mains STILL are waiting for his frenzy speed to work properly).
Now, imagine killers reaction when a new patch hits. Oh, did they fix the things making so many killers unplayable? Fix the numerous other bugs? No, Mori nerf. And to add salt to the wound when something on the survivor end is nerfed and it only affects survivors it gets hotfixed pretty quick (see DS taking 2 days to hotfix).
This basically sends a message that survivors are the only ones that matter, the devs just cater to survivor's whines and complaints about killer being OP and how they shouldn't be the power role, even though survivor has the number advantage to make up for it, and that the devs have severe survivor bias. Whether or not this is true I can't say, I'm not the dev team, but the important thing is this is how the it is being PERCEIVED.
Unless some serious care is given to implement some QoL patches and more consideration given to the health of the entire playerbase and not just survivors, you'll have a game full of survivors and no killers, and these days of 30 minute survivor queues will sound like absolute paradise in comparison.
I'm just gonna chill and play Apex and the RE1 HD Remaster for now. All of you people playing killer out there, you have my respect.
im trying man, gonna be playing only blight and nurse tho
keys can be used to skip a portion of the game, moris can be used to skip a portion of the game, they are the same thing and BOTH needed changes, just wishful thinking to have them both at the same time
Keys and Moris both needed changing and while they aren't the same thing, they are both extremely powerful and are used to cut part of the game short. More importantly, they needed changing at the same time rather than doing one first and then the other maybe whenever.
now we going to get camp to 2nd hook and mori now.
thats the spirit
Yes. Its about perception. Especially the perception that Mori's already got nerfed 3 years ago and we still haven't seen a change or any real word on a change to keys. But don't worry, animations take time, which is why they made new generator animations first!
Christ you just go to every mori post just to say the dev's could have waited. You should probably just take a break from the game at this point if your this upset.
Moris are fine and still have use, you can deny a DS flashlight save etc, and get a cool kill animation. They are fine.
Unless I missed something, that's only true if a survivor went to struggle stage on the first hook.
I’m not sure what you are saying.. with the new mori change, now you can murder after second hook, or if they hit struggle during first hook, so if they have DS on their death hook, it doesn’t matter because you brought a mori, they are still strong
Oh I uninstalled this game yesterday. Dosen't mean I don't have hope for the future of the game or want to try to change it to something thats fair for everyone. To change it to place with transperancy and explanation. Where criticism is accepted rather then deflected.
What I'm saying is that it's rare for a survivor to get into struggle phase on their first hook.
If they don't, they still have their entire arsenal of saves you cannot bypass with a mori.
I.e. if a survivor is rescued before they struggle, and have the DS perk, they can still use it, and mori cannot bypass it.
Using a mori to bypass things is absurdly situational.
cool kill animation fine
nerfing one sides item that skips portions of gameplay but not the other bad
nerfing the one to the point where the only balance would end up being if the key can only open hatch and chests faster / with rarer items
Yep, I've been playing Remnant instead. and I had just gotten back into this game last week. Oh well.
Well you can still bypass it after their second hook, it is bery similar to PH final judgement, yes they can still use it after their first hook, but if they don’t get to after their first hook they never will due to mori