(Controversial) Why do people defend the nurse for because she's hard to play?
Alright, I started thinking about this after @MadLordJack said that nurse was busted and OP and that he hated how people defend nurse because she's "the hard one".
Nurse is by far the best killer in dbd, and I see more people wanting spirit and deathslinger nerfed than nurse, who has even less counterplay. Now, I agree that deathslinger and spirit do need some tweaks to their kit, but why not nurse? I see people defend her saying "she's a high skill killer", at least with deathslinger you can break LOS and pre drop pallets, slinger takes a lot of skill to play, almost as much as nurse, and I see more people talking about slinger than nurse.
I'm not saying nurse needs a nerf or anything, but I just want to know why people defend her for being high skill. She has almost no counterplay, you can't juke a nurse, the nurse misses, and since she no clips through everything, you can't use pallets or vaults as well.
Comments
So obviously u've never played nurse or played against a good deathslinger, his skill ceiling is 1 of the lowest in the game all he requires is decent aim and basic killer knowledge, u can't counter his quick scoping or his baiting which is what makes him so boring and annoying, plus even if u pre drop he can shoot u over it and still get a free injure with deep wound on top of that (and we know how much ppl love deep wound) spirit on the other hand i love, for me she is one of the most fun killers to verse i've just never been annoyed by her
Just because you spent hundreds of hours on Nurse to master her shouldn’t give you the right to completely massacre anything short of a well coordinated sweaty SWF. That idea is just flawed and completely disregards the idea of fun for the other side.
Nurse is still OP, but thankfully she’s in a buggy state and very few players can play her well so she’s a rare sight.
So because you got gud you deserve to be nerfed? What kind of logic is that?
The same logic that has infected and spread all the way through this community.
If something is effective, or asks you to change up standard playstyle, or counters your usual perk / add on load out, it is clearly uncounterable and op, therefore we must move the goalposts again because its "Not Fair".
In other words, self serving logic.
Well,the thing is.In order to be the god nurse with 0 counterplay you have to invest an insane amount of time.
Which is why those god nurses are so incredibly rare to see.
If you compare her with other killers like Pyramid Head,Deathslinger,Freddy or Spirit then you'll see that their skill floor is waaaaay lower then the one from nurse.
I love the concept of very strong killers that require a lot of time to get good at them which is why i would never complain about a god nurse completely destroying me.
Because i know it took them a lot of time to get this good at her.However it feels much more frustrating to lose against killers like spirit,freddy etc. because they are so easy to play considering how strong they are.
because its so overwhelmingly hard to master that about 0.2% of players have done it, there are still things you can attempt against a good nurse and good nurses you can find pretty easily in pubs but if you go into scrims and comp stuff thats where they are
No counterplay?
run behind a rock where she can't see you. There's the play.
I'm not putting words in you mouth, you literally said that that's what skillful players do. Your words, your mouth, strawmanning yourself.
True, I always get the most DC's on nurse.
Like ClickyClicky the difficulty of playing her is what makes it hard to master so that is why she isn't played as often so there is a lack of complaint. However I do notice that there is a way to counter the nurse's blink, before she materializes her visual range shows aka the red cone. The best way to avoid a hit is as soon as you see it is a sharp turn or vault to avoid the nurse. If the player is fast enough and can blink multiple times then this is difficult to avoid but doable. It also depends on if you have lag or not, if I'm not lagging I can avoid the nurse relatively well and keep her distracted.
Nurse also takes considerable skill to use. I'm absolute trash at her and mistime my blinks because.... well I'm not good with the range she has nor do I play her often. Not having add ons when playing also means that I make a lot of blind blinks which can be... well I'm just garbage at it to say the least.
I enjoy the skill it takes for someone to play her well and I love running into a good nurse player because it's a good game when you have a confident killer.
Skillful players imply that they're good at the game, and if you're good at the game you won't get in a chase with these killers. Never said it requires skill, and I never said it was particularly fun or what should happen I just said this is how a good player will counter a nurse or Deathslinger. How hard is this to understand?
You cannot call someone "skillful" if they don't show it, and against a Nurse there really is no way to show it. Everyone is forced into using the most basic, easy, simple tactic in the game: ignore everything and rush the gens.
Seriously, how is that hard to understand? There is no difference between a good player and a bad one, because its all boring tactics and no actual skill.
I feel as though she might as well not have a second blink. When I've tried her the second blink charge up lasts like 2 seconds and moves you about two feet. Even if you stand right next to the wall of the killer shack second blink won't let me phase through the wall. Same goes for tiles, survivor vaults a window as I come out of first blink and just gets to run away as second blink bumps the wall won't let me through and then I'm stuck in that ######### cooldown. I've charged my 1st blink to full and been stuck on a rock right in front of me. Also been stuck on a tree before.
Ok, so we make Nurse even more counterable than she is now.
Who would play her then? Who would want to suffer through her countless bugs, horribly demanding and boring to use power if that wouldn't give much more than other killers? Yeah, right, nobody.
Nobody wants to play her even now except rare nurse mains, but if she gets nerfed to the point where survivors can do some certain thing to guarantee counter her, even these rare people will abandon nurse.
I'm aware that it's not difficult to do. I'm aware it's stupid. But honestly 99% of players can't even do this properly against Nurse which is why at this point it is more of a display of skill than anything else you can do against her next to holding W after you get hit by her.
You are just wrong on that one.
Good survivors can fool good nurses. There is counterplay to her and it is not just hiding but hiding is something that is completely overlooked from most of the survivors. Giving a killer a free chase 10-15seconds into the game is simply not the smartest thing to do whether you like it or not. A lack of respect from survivors towards killers surely plays a role in that regard too.
I'm sorry, but I'm not wrong. The problem with Nurse is that it's completely reasonable for her to not make mistakes, and it's actually quite easy to not make tactical errors as her once you've mastered the art of basic blinking. Blink behind the survivor/to the place they broke LoS, then use your second blink to hit them. Not as difficult as people pretend, and there really is nothing the survivor can do, not unless the Nurse misses her blink. Make her overcharge? She just blinks short. Break LoS? Not when she's that close. Spin? Yeah, go ahead.
Call me "just wrong" all you want, that doesn't change facts. Every little bit of "counterplay" relies on the Nurse not being good, which means it isn't actually counterplay. And I don't care about bad Nurses, I really don't. We don't use any other high-skill killers' bad players, why would we ever use Nurses?
?
Your latter explanation of why she's un-counterable is like saying Trapper is OP when you're close to him and have no pallets/windows... They're supposed to hit you if you leave yourself in a vulnerable spot where you have nothing to work with.
As for your first argument, you're ignoring the fundamentals of counter play altogether; You're just wrong. For example, if you come across a LOS breaker (like the shack):
If the Nurse is good? don't double back, or fake doubling back around a corner to make her waste her first blink. If the Nurse is a god? You'll have to outsmart them by sheer IQ, as a god Nurse will always fake going to a position by charging a blink and looking at one spot before quickly flicking and teleporting to a different one (which is what I usually do, and it tricks most people the first few times). If you juke them the first time, you have to juke them again by doing the exact same thing (although, to be honest, just faking a blink gives Nurse a huge advantage in any situation where she only has one blink left and isn't confident of the hit).
Call me "just wrong" all you want, that doesn't change facts: Saying Nurse doesn't have counter play is just an excuse to not use your brain.
Nurse already got a huge rework on her addons and power.
She is a Hard to master, hard to learn but once you are good with her you can turn to an unstopable force.
Her pickrate is one of the lowest as is her kill rate cause only a few have bother to pick her up and learn her instead of going easy mode with someone like Spirit. I maybe spent 300-500 hours alone learning Nurse and even now am I still learning how to play her correctly, she is also one of the most frustrating killers to play as and she also got the most bugs that can ######### you over in a match
Yes you are wrong and no it is not reasonable to assume that a good nurse does not make mistakes. Watch streams of literally everybody, we are humans we all make mistakes, there is no perfect robot who does not make any mistakes. Simply doesn't exist. For further evidence check the botb, survivors fool nurses. That is why she is balanced.
Your general assumption that a good nurse does not make mistakes is flawed beyond repair.
because people are stupid. Those people don't understand how arguments work.
Please fix Nurse i.e. revert the nerf to her entertainment and actually address the power issues. Raising her skill cap is better than restricting her ability.
You're asking for too much, as the devs like to largely ignore Nurse. It's probably a coding hell, but they made it so I can't really justify it.
I'm not asking for too much; I'm asking for what we deserve as players. The devs are probably not going to give it to us and instead focus on integrating the rift deeper into the game (ugh).
If asking for simple bug fixes is too much, we won't be getting a rework.
I love Nurse where she currently stands (without addons as well), but the devs actively refuse to fix much of anything related to her. We might deserve a rework or a bug fix, but we're not going to get one over a new rift skin.
What changes do you suggest after they rever the nerf?
I don't say this lightly... but anyone who has spent the time to learn to play Nurse very well deserves to have an S-Tier killer at their fingertips.
You cannot nerf her unless you make her 10x easier to learn. No exaggeration.
I have tried Nurse a couple of times... *holy hell*. Words can't even describe how hard she is to play.
The only killer who is arguably more complicated and difficult to learn is Blight, though I've never played him.
Blight is easier to play because your sight can still be a sense. Most people who are new to Nurse make the mistake of only using their sight to play her, when you have to get into the mindset of "That obstacle isn't really there" and go off of your intuition on survivor movement.
I agree with you, but I don't doubt that Nurse will be nerfed again in the future just because they can.
I've said this in other posts, so I'll paraphrase here.
Issues with Nurse:
Solutions:
Point two is the biggest thing that needs to be addressed for the sake of survivors being able to have more options when in a chase against The Nurse, because forcing The Nurse to commit to decisions earlier is nearly always beneficial to a survivor. Also, remove the model of The Nurse appearing during her movement in the blink. This change should have been making a husk of The Nurse appear at her blink location about half a second before she gets there instead of making her model visible at the end of the blink. It has actually made me more incredulous at Nurse lethal blinks than less due to the visual response.
Issues with Nurse (killer-only perspective):
Solution:
Other comments: Devs, devote one person to each killer who is the chief expert on that killer's add-ons and power instead of having everybody switch off repeatedly over the years. That way, balance decisions could be done with a significantly higher degree of effectiveness and accuracy though limiting the importance of decisions passed down from people in power who have less of an idea of how the killer feels and fits into the game.
Also, I support three blink add-ons. I thought that all they needed was to decrease charge time, decrease distance, and decrease chain blink window all at the same time to compensate.
Additionally, perhaps it would be a good idea to test if a slightly longer fatigue time (similar to how the post-attack fatigue time is increase) should be given to The Nurse when she enters fatigue while charging a blink.
I wanted to color the last comment I made yellow. :,( I miss text colors.
Wasn't She over 100% ms as well when she first came to the game?
Is she the best killer? Yes! Is she by far the most difficult? Yes! Is she really ahead from the others killers? Actually, no! She relies badly on survivor’s mistakes too. This plus her god powers seems to make her that unbeatable, but she is not. Actually, as a main Nurse, I can assure that maybe she is not worth investing time and effort and definitly does not need another nerf. I play her cause I really love her style, her lore, and obviously cause she is strong. But people sell her really as an unbeatable character, this is not true. Even the best Nurse player out there will be crushed for those tryhard swfs.
I don't remember since I was fiddling around with Trapper/Dwight at the time and wasn't into her, so I'm gonna say maybe?
The #########?
WHAT IN THE CINNAMON TOAST FRICK IS GOING ON?
See - that's the thing.
At higher ranks, survivors know Nurse inside and out. They know how she will move, how to juke her and how to bait her. She is such a high risk/high reward killer that a single mistake is insanely costly for her.
To play Nurse well, you don't just need to be good. You need to be amazing. And unless you are going to totally rework her (good luck!) any nerf to her will make her all but useless to the vast majority of players. That's terrible design.
Don't listen to people. The nurse isint hard to use at all. I've been playing this game since when the nurses lunge was broken. Since 2016 like dude people overrate how hard she is to use. Slinger is harder to use bro. I literally played nurse and she literally took me a day or 2 to get used to. If you lose line of sight all you have to do is blink to the line of sight then you can adjust from there. Lmao people really be gassing up how hard she is to use. Yes she takes more skill than most killers but she's not as hard as everyone says. Maybe that's just me but she's definitely not hard to use. Easy 4ks especially if you main her because you'll get used to her quickly.