RockoRango
RockoRango
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@jesterkind said:
Out of curiosity, where did you get those definitions from? They seem bizarrely restrictive, they seem to ignore a huge portion of games which specifically gain their fun factor from doing the opposite of what these bullet points require.
Any game about learning and mastering the right series of inputs is, by this metric, a disastrous failure, but plenty of people really really like games that are about learning the predictable and repeated patterns to overcome the challenge. Hell, a huge portion of speedrunning is built on this principle.
To elaborate on this, these heuristics also apply to those games:
Let’s take Street Fighter for example.
Choice: The right number of moves exist. This doesn’t mean there has to be a lot of moves, just the amount that’s desirable. When a game really nails this, that’s where the whole joy of mastering comes from.
Variety: Situations don’t repeat. If the game is about learning repeatable and predicted patterns it doesn’t mean situations repeat. One player doing a combo can be countered by a ton of other combos from the other player, so you can’t necessarily say the same situations will constantly repeat.
Consequence: Moves lead to new situations. If a player messes up a combo, the opponent can take advantage of that and create a new situation that wasn’t there before. This doesn’t apply to DbD because the opponent doesn’t have nearly enough of the desired moves for this to happen.
Predictability: New situations can’t be anticipated. You can’t anticipate what combo a player will do unless you’ve truly mastered the game, giving a reward for players that do.
Uncertainty: New situations aren’t predetermined. If one combo is used, there are multiple ways to counter that same combo instead of easily countering with the exact same combo over and over again to win. This would make the game unfun (and from what I’ve heard it’s a flaw in some Street Fighter games).
Satisfaction: Desired outcomes are obtainable. You can beat the opponent if you know what you’re doing and simply outplay them, making you feel ‘smart’ and satisfied. This doesn’t apply nearly enough to DbD because there are flaws in the game’s mechanics that literally block players from such (cooldowns, generator layouts, etc).
As for speedrunning, I believe that’s more of a psychology thing but the same heuristics would still apply: the more they succeed at satisfying the heuristics, the more popular the game is for speedrunning.
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@Kurri said:
Not gonna lie, that was a great read, and you bring up some really great points. Might I interest you in reddit article from 5 years ago?
I remember reading that when it was released and being really impressed! I’m a big psychology nerd on the side. Thanks for linking that for others, though!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2629713#Comment_2629713
Did that course list any separate sources for its heuristics? I'd be interested in reading it if so, because as I said- this seems incredibly narrow in scope, to the point that it's straight up unfit for purpose when it comes to deciding a game's quality and to the point that I'm wondering if either you or the course completely misused/misrepresented it.
The Heuristics of playfulness themselves aren’t meant to define a good game solely by themselves, as I showed in the slide snippet: they’re a core step in the heuristics of defining one. However, a game that fails at these heuristics specifically will surely fail at the rest due to the structure. They’re meant to be strict because they are basic and boiled down; the broader you view the heuristics, the less basic they become.
I would give the source, but it’s from our university textbook library: I don’t want to be sued by a conglomerate for linking their ‘private’ textbook’. I will say though that my professor is on the development team for World of Tanks and has been very clear about each lesson!
Here’s a reading about a study that describes it in broader terms:
https://www.userbehavioristics.com/s/DesigningBetterGames-09HCI-Desurvire.pdf
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@jesterkind said:
Out of curiosity, where did you get those definitions from? They seem bizarrely restrictive, they seem to ignore a huge portion of games which specifically gain their fun factor from doing the opposite of what these bullet points require.
Any game about learning and mastering the right series of inputs is, by this metric, a disastrous failure, but plenty of people really really like games that are about learning the predictable and repeated patterns to overcome the challenge. Hell, a huge portion of speedrunning is built on this principle.
I took a class at my University for Game Design, and we spent a week solely talking about how a good game is defined; One of the core aspects of a good game is playfulness, which is made up of 5 heuristics that have to be met.
@lordfart said:
A lot of the explanations behind your reasoning didn't seem very objective to me, but hope ya feel better!
I would say that my bashing of the devs is somewhat opinionated, but justified based on my reasoning.
Here’s a snippet from a class slideshow (Yes, grey-on-grey text is hard to read):
93753DE9-D0FD-4088-90D5-D3DE457E1E84.jpeg -
@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2585849#Comment_2585849
true.
nowadays i rarely see anyone from the old forum days... most either left on their own accord or got banned for BHVR-knows-what :(
honestly, i'm surprised that i'm still here...
Same.
honestly, I’ve been here for years and just don’t post much. I’m sure there are a lot of other forum/game veterans who’re the same and have a lower than usual post count as a result
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@Rhoska said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2586352#Comment_2586352
It was caused DELIBERATELY by people lying, conflating and mass posted falsehoods gleened from their hysteric tech-illiteracy, in an attempt to gin up the audience for some sort of crusade.
There is no "transparency" required regarding ONE SINGLE poster stating that he thinks his PS5 was somehow bricked by "hackers" via DBD, and which he cant substantiate at all, and then dissappeared.
Then in the process this toxic group actively attacked in gangs and attempted to suppress anyone that actually was addressing the issue from an objective, factual and informed basis, because this group of people has an exceedingly toxic and sociopathic personality trait that they share. They cant stand to be wrong, they cant stand to be shown to be ignorant, and they cant stand not getting what they think they "want".
- Huh? I doubt all of that. I see no proof of any of it, even if people get riled up (for a good reason, mind you).
- The transparency needed, and the hysteria that ensued, was because multiple reports of the same thing occurring in the same timespan. Everyone was doubtful of the first post about it, but the more people reported it the less doubt there was. It could legitimately be a hacker, but it's statistically more likely that Dead by Daylight has just become too unoptimized and is frying people's consoles.
- I don't see... Any of that? There are always rotten eggs on a forum, and ignoring that I really don't see what you're talking about.
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That was caused by lack of transparency on BHVR's part. If they said something, this 'hysteria' you speak of would calm down.
The fact is, that sort of thing happens all the time with unsecure games on a sometimes stupidly monitored PS Store, and it's not hard to do either (It's MUCH easier to create a game that just bricks systems than a functional one). As well as that, if people had any faith left in BHVR in the first place it wouldn't be as much of a panic as it currently is.
Also, I don't really see any mass reporting coming from anyone. If it happens and it actually goes through, it's on the mod team for going through with it.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I don't think this is a common thing. It never has been. I rarely ever see an afk killer.
Oof, you missed out on the good times then.
This has been around forever: People used to use bots to go trapper and do nothing all round but set and pick up a trap over and over again to get infinite bloodpoints, basically making them afk and ruining the game for a long while. With the current state of the game, I'm not surprised something similar is popping back up
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They said the same thing about reddit, but it's still thriving....
.. :)
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It seems this is needed here as well, so ima just copy/paste it:
You can DEFINITELY brick a console if you really wanted to, emphasis on REALLY WANTED TO, and had access to cheats in the game. Console hardware isn't made as durable as you think, especially when they already run hot enough just normally running an optimized, trashy mess such as this.
I.E if a hacker can spawn in 70 firecrackers, they can quite literally spawn in the bare maximum so that the console runs too hot and something melts/breaks. Whether it be a wire, something to control thermals, or the CPU itself (I doubt that), it's completely possible.
If you haven't heard as well, hackers got access to LittleBigPlanet's source code and made the game mine bitcoin in the background, which would totally brick a console (they shut the game down before it did any damage); Anything is possible with a lack of security.
Also, it's obvious why PCs aren't affected: they're made better. They're claustrophobic boxes of parts made to run the bare minimum while also making profit, PCs have adequate cooling systems while consoles have cheap ones, and everything is fairly protected against temperature (and has safeguards) in a PC while you have to take apart a console to see how ineffective it is at this. Consoles barely have, if any, of this simply because it's not cost-effective and it's the job of BHVR's XXXX department to make sure they have adequate safeguards that don't fry the system any more than they currently are.
TL;DR It's very possible, but no one really wants to do that if they're cheating; most hackers want to have fun and mess around. If you're really afraid of getting the 1% that are malicious, either install a better cooling system or don't play this game until they have better security.
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There was a big deal about an entire hit registration rework once the official servers were launched for a bit because the previous hit-reg system was extremely outdated and killer-sided. It's ironic to think now that it's transformed into a lenient mess but, like you said, they don't have much merit when it comes to latency compensation.
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You can DEFINITELY brick a console if you really wanted to, emphasis on REALLY WANTED TO, and had access to cheats in the game. Console hardware isn't made as durable as you think, especially when they already run hot enough just normally running an optimized, trashy mess such as this.
I.E if a hacker can spawn in 70 firecrackers, they can quite literally spawn in the bare maximum so that the console runs too hot and something melts/breaks. Whether it be a wire, something to control thermals, or the CPU itself (I doubt that), it's completely possible.
If you haven't heard as well, hackers got access to LittleBigPlanet's source code and made the game mine bitcoin in the background, which would totally brick a console (they shut the game down before it did any damage); Anything is possible with a lack of security.
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The difference between a master Nurse and a decent Nurse is they almost always predict correctly, and that usually comes from playing both killer and survivor. The best advice I can give you is to play survivor and killer to get a feel for what you should look out for.
Also, watching some tutorials like OhTofu's and ScottJund's 3 hours of Nurse might accelerate the process
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From 1.0.5 - 1.7.0, brutal strength was 40%.
1.7.0:
- Quality of Life: increased the default Pallet-breaking speed by 15 %.
- Nerf: decreased the Pallet-breaking speed bonus to 10/15/20 %
For anyone wondering, Brutal Strength is 95% as strong of a perk as it was in 1.0.5 (And pallets were a LOT stronger in the past). I agree it could use a little tweaking based on the meta changing from then to now, but honestly the best course of action is to completely rework the perk or increase it to 25% as pallets are much weaker than they were previously and changing the percentage would teeter massively towards either being extremely OP or not worth using at all.
- Quality of Life: increased the default Pallet-breaking speed by 15 %.
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Good god, I remember when this thread was CREATED. The fact it's still active and has 118 pages is very sad
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gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8
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@MaybeShesCrazy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573884#Comment_2573884
It all depends on the type you're referencing and how it's all implemented and place together. Not all NTF's contain what most people consider Blockchain Tech.
It's why I thought it might be a good idea to have one thread with a full explanation that's easy for an average person to understand.
Sadly I understand it - but would be the worst person ever to try to explain it.
A non-fungible token (NFT) is a unique and non-interchangeable unit of data stored on a digital ledger (blockchain).[1] NFTs can be used to represent easily-reproducible items such as photos, videos, audio, and other types of digital files as unique items (analogous to a certificate of authenticity), and use blockchain technology to establish a verified and public proof of ownership. Copies of the original file are not restricted to the owner of the NFT, and can be copied and shared like any file. The lack of interchangeability (fungibility) distinguishes NFTs from blockchain cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin.
A non-fungible token (NFT) is a unique and non-interchangeable unit of data stored on a digital ledger (blockchain).[1] NFTs can be used to represent easily-reproducible items such as photos, videos, audio, and other types of digital files as unique items (analogous to a certificate of authenticity), and use blockchain technology to establish a verified and public proof of ownership.Unless wikipedia is wrong (and the argument about it being unreliable is completely bogus), NFTs are created and stored USING blockchain tech. Even if somehow everyone else is missing something and some aren't, the concept itself is extremely dangerous to the internet as a whole:
"You don't own this NFT, therefore you can't have or use it! Only I can, haha :)" - Someone trying to profit off of a copy and paste of a .jpg
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@MaybeShesCrazy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573863#Comment_2573863
Let me rephrase it... livelihoods. As in paying bills, eating etc. Life basics :-)
Right about now my comment "Also this is a VERY important note:
"Absolutely zero blockchain tech exists" and they can verify that if they wanted. It would ease a lot of this."
Is looking like a really good idea for them to do.
NFTs are created using blockchain tech. If they said that, it would be misinformation
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@not_Queef said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573834#Comment_2573834
Totally nothing to do with the servers being down, I'm sure.
We'll see about that. I expect a drop regardless of when the servers come back online.
@MaybeShesCrazy said:
I cant believe I'm actually going to say something in support of what a mod said...
"Remember some peoples lives depend on this game" This is always something to keep in mind everyone. I am empathetic to that.
That being said I completely suck at translating some things for people to understand. It might be an idea for someone to post a concise thread - pinned - on how NTFs work and how they can work along with Pros and Cons of them. Most people are not going to understand them.
Education is better than fear and you can't make good choices if you don't understand. Understanding is the key to many things.
Also this is a VERY important note:
"Absolutely zero blockchain tech exists" and they can verify that if they wanted. It would ease a lot of this.
If people's lives depend on a video game, ESPECIALLY this one, I'm moving to antartica to live with penguins. At least their brains aren't walnuts.
If you mean the devs, that is such a terrible excuse for forgiving a game company that I've lost even more faith in humanity. That's like saying EA hires lots of developers, so you can't criticize them for being the scummiest game company.
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In other news, the steamchart is looking tasty
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@ElusivePukka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573796#Comment_2573796
NFTs and crypto aren't real currency, and NFTs do not have legitimate value.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573786#Comment_2573786
Everything can be a scam. Not everything is. Crypto is just a scam skirting a long documented history of backing being a limiting factor by deluding people into thinking it's not needed.
The entire selling model for Bitcoin and crypto is that promise of value - saying any different is just proof positive of bad faith.
If you don't believe NFTs have legitimate value, you've forgotten how economics works.
An individual NFT is one-of-a-kind, therefore it's a scarce resource. You can also look at it as an NFT uses energy, therefore it's scarce by proxy (even if the supply of NFTs is infinite).
Scarce resources are inherently sought after, so there's value in having that resource and its price increases in response to the demand people have for owning it.
Again, NFTs are scummy and only a piece of ######### uses them but they technically do have value, and are not a ponzi scheme. If they were, it would be outlawed.
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@ElusivePukka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573719#Comment_2573719
The fake business is Bitcoin itself. No, it doesn't have value, and the lie that people tell themselves that it has value is just part of the ponzi scheme, not a miraculously self-evident fiat currency.
I agree that NFTs are absolutely horrible and a scam, but they're not a ponzi scheme; a resource does not have to be finite to have value, therefore an NFT has legitimate value (however small) and a ponzi scheme is not possible. If it was, money itself would be a scam.
It's possible, however, and very prevalent to basically mass produce extremely similar NFTs at no cost and completely nosedive the price of the bought NFT's value, completely screwing over consumers and keeping all the profit. This is why it's a broad scam: investors aren't being tricked into investing by being promised profit, consumers just straight-up get scammed by giving away money like idiots, wasting energy/resources, and losing most if not all public credibility.
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@Red_Beard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2314103#Comment_2314103
I don't disagree. I like looping more myself. But looping was what many called "no skill, boring game play" back then to the point changes were made to "balance" it. Now we are saying we want to go back. And when we go back we will probably say we want to go back again, and again, and again, and again, and again.
The complaints about looping that were actually relevant were about the vaccum, pallet placement, and pallet amount. All three of those are much better than before (with the exception of The Game and possibly the new map), so I don’t think we’d have the issues repeating themselves
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@CashelP14 said:
Make maps smaller is the only thing you can do.
If maps are smaller then a survivor holding W will eventually lead you to a gen a survivor is on.
If you make the maps smaller, the problem of density would come up: if the map is a lot smaller, doing nothing but chaining tons of pallets close to each other and running away would be extremely easy or, if they reduced pallets, there might not be enough pallets to consider the map balanced. I just think that’s not a good idea, as it’s going around the issue rather than addressing it from here-on.
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@TicTac said:
Killer would moonwalk or other tricks to not start a chase. Only 113% movement could be problematic on some loops, but i dont know.
You’d have to change what constitutes as starting a chase (I.E being close to lunging distance causes a chase to occur). It’s just a simple example I thought would be neat to try to get conversation going
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@Red_Beard said:
The game used to be more about looping but people said they didn't like to play against it so they changed the maps a bunch and made more killers with powers that shut down loops. If we made changes to bring looping back, we would just go back to hearing about how much people don't like the looping meta and would have threads asking how to solve that again.
That’s still a whole lot better than people complaining about holding W being basically the best thing in the game to do. You’ll always have people complaining, but I’d rather have people complaining about looping than having to deal with boring cookie-clicker gameplay 24/7.
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I hope that when my posts exceed 1k after ‘x’ years I can get my ego stroked too heck yeah
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1930989#Comment_1930989
I've actually found that a bunch of her bugs have been fixed-the obnoxious can't blink and can't second blink bugs I haven't encountered once yet, and the top floor of crotus prenn was a deadzone on PTB but it was fixed on live (then they yeeted the map lol).
^
Also, for some reason, they reverted the color change to blinks? Dunno why it was given that in the first place. Overall, if it doesn't become broke again soon, it's a pretty happy time to be a Nurse player.
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Been playing since launch, and I THINK this is what’s been happening, just from my experience:
1 is not rare, it happens very consistently depending on the servers you connect to. If there is a SMIDGE of delay it seems to freak out and not know what to do between blinks (or not know where you’re supposed to be), causing the second blink to be locked. I think this is also the cause of 2, but I’ve never noticed that one happen to me at all.
3 is usually because your blink destination is inside of an object or just too skinny for the game to properly place you there. Other times, what I believe causes some levels to be unblinkable, the next level’s floor has collision that’s exaggerated too far upwards for the Nurse to not get ‘stuck’ inside of it according to the engine’s physics.
4 is a problem with an object’s collision zone being so exaggerated that it believes teleporting on the other side is the same as teleporting inside of it, making you blink in place as to not trap you; The object actually takes up a larger space than visible due to bad collision, causing you to believe it’s a bug when it’s actually just doing a good job of keeping you from getting stuck. This happens less with the reworked maps because of collision being fine-tuned (sometimes) and everything being less thicc in general.
Anyways, none of that matters now cause they changed your blinks to be blue instead of the regular tan color so rofl
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791409#Comment_1791409
Oh then I was thinking about another survey because there I didn’t need to put in SteamID. What was that about? Only steam and no console?
I hadn't thought of console... It would likely be your PSN/Xbox gamertag.
I'd like to say you had the choice between console and PC, but I don't remember the console option since I only use PC. I think the most recent one I went through was a satisfaction survey but the one I remember the most was the 4th anniversary questions for a prize.
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@Mooks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791380#Comment_1791380
you think people would not lie about their identity on Survey Monkey? I dont remember I was really validated on my personal inputs there..
You were required to put in your steam ID, username, and stats. I'm sure that if one showed up as invalid or more than once, neither would be counted. There could still be opposition, but it would be the actually unsolvable kind + there would also be a cushion to soften any meddling that could occur.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791380#Comment_1791380
You can't prove a negative, look up Russel's Teapot.
If the devs used Survey Monkey for this, the new conspiracy theory would be that nobody can validate the results because they're not visible to us, as opposed to the current system where it's all out in the open.
I didn't say it would prove a negative. The short answer is that using this would cause anyone who questions the validity to check the survey that actually had security in it to see if the majority answered yes. This would likely decrease the amount of people who actually believe there is some manipulation because they're able to prove to themselves otherwise. There will always be people that think there is meddling, but most people could actually refute them or just would have the reason to not listen.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791351#Comment_1791351
You are right about not being able to satisfy everyone, that's why we've chosen what we believe is the fairest system...we also take questions from Twitter for those that don't use the forums. We take the most popular questions that have been asked - as that's what we believe to be the fairest way.
Running all that through another survey entirely negates the whole point of having an upvote/downvote system in the first place. Plus the extra time involve isn't something that's viable for us to do right now - not saying it's not something we'd consider in the future and if we find another system we might well do it, but for right now, this is the best system that we have available to us.
I don't mean running the upvote system through survey money, I'm talking about taking the questions that have been chosen to actually be answered on the Q&A. Take those 20-or-so questions and give simple "Yes" and "No" answers to whether or not people want to see the question answered (as well as having satisfaction at the end).
This would also solve the problem of taking questions from other platforms: If I don't use twitter, but I do use the forums, how am I supposed to know that this question wasn't just randomly fabricated? I don't support it, and neither do I see anything other than hate for it on the forums, so why should I trust the current questioning system? I would if there was a verification of the chosen questions through survey monkey. If the majority to the question is "No"? Skip the question, and then choose one from the upvoted forum lists (or just say it was a majority no).
Also, might wanna look at that again. Edited it a bit.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791351#Comment_1791351
And then a new conspiracy theory spreads, saying that the third-party site is, in fact, in league with BHVR, or that it allows for vote manipulation, or someone falsely claims that they asked a question that wasn't listed.
Acquiescing to people whose starting position is "You are lying to me" is not a reasonable request.
Survey Monkey requires that everyone confirms their identity before they fill out the survey, as far as I can tell from every survey that DbD has used. Whether that be something BHVR put into it or not, it's actually quite a secure option and the people at that point that oppose it are actually just conspiracy theorists. Right now, however, there is no leverage that can be used against them to prove them wrong.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791221#Comment_1791221
That seems to be completely covered by the upvote/downvote system. The whole point of being able to upvote/downvote is that we then get the questions that the majority of the Community who've taken the time to go through the questions, wish to have answered. The problem arises when the questions that are most upvoted are about upcoming content/features/changes which we cannot answer at that time - if we don't choose these questions then we're accused of cherry picking, when we do choose these questions and explain that we can't give this information, we're also vilified for not being able to answer the question.
No, it is not. This is why there's a clear "Dev vs. Community" mentality expressed throughout the forums: the devs and forum moderators simply don't understand the community's reasoning or they flat out ignore it.
How many people is the "majority" that've "taken the time to go through the questions"? You have no proof of anyone actually upvoting instead of upvotes being manipulated, as do I, and the only reason this paranoia has spread is because a lot of people don't trust the forum's current upvote system (as it is viewed as basically just a censored election). Letting a third-party site (that the devs already use) ask the community to verify the questions gets rid of any opposition stating that the questions are being cherry-picked or aren't reasonable to ask.
Like I said earlier as well, you can't satisfy everyone. However, you can make the opposition's points completely moot if you actually put the effort in to stop them before it becomes the majority's view. If you had something like this in place since the start, people complaining about questions not being answered would be an entirely separate topic.
And look, I understand your view completely. I also understand where your apparent tone of a lose-lose situation with the community arises from, but this is only because the steps haven't been taken to alleviate the situation. Looking at it from the view of nothing being changed? Yes, it's a lose-lose. But actually changing something about the process that both discredits the opposition and could help the community be less divided on this type of issue? I don't see the point in not doing it.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791286#Comment_1791286
If you go into this discussion with the mindset that the devs would simply lie about and manipulate everything, then there's no point. You can't prove a negative (in this case, that they didn't manipulate the numbers).
Henceforth why my suggested plan would work unless someone is a conspiracy theorist and thinks they manipulated surveymonkey (which has always made players confirm their identity before they fill out the survey).
@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791269#Comment_1791269
I addressed your first point in a previous comment.
If you did more than gloss over my solution to this you would see that I'm not advocating to just "ask to upvote more". That would be pointless and a waste of time. I suggest you read over it.
I did read your suggestion, but apparently my example was too indirect. I'll try again:
There is no way to reach every player and get them to participate in a survey of any kind.
I thought it'd be clearer since the current system is literally the survey you suggested, but over a longer period of time rather than just before the Q&A stream. You are, in effect, saying that we should vote twice, but the second vote would only include those who can be present right before the Q&A stream. Your suggestion would be less representative of the community, not more.
Also, this is not true. The comments of cherry-picking being prevalent in Q&A are everywhere, and I wouldn't mix up minority with majority. Literally just search Q&A on reddit and you'll see an example of this: other than the advertizements for the Q&As themselves, they're just used as a punching bag and are often regarded as a joke because of how dumb the questions are.
There are also plenty of comments appreciating the Q&A. Reddit is not representative of the community. Neither is any one social media platform - or even all of them combined.
"Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any opposition means it's ineffective but rather that the current Q&A structure makes the majority of the community unhappy and feel alienated from the actual dev team." You glossed over this.
I don't think you see what I'm saying either: Because the community has no actual feasible way of seeing the picked questions before they actually are asked, as it's frankly doubtful and impossible that they're the top upvoted questions on a forum that's heavily censored and monitored, it causes cognitive dissonance and literally opens the door to theories of cherry-picking. There's even 'proof' of devs deleting Q&A questions with upvotes, as seen on reddit If you simply searched up Q&A like I said, and because of the forum moderators sometimes never giving a public reason against these deletions (and the fact it's their forum) the community holds themselves more truthful than the devs.
As well as that, I, once again, wouldn't use the word "majority" unless the MAJORITY.... M A J O R I T Y feel this system is wrong. Sorry if you view this as condesending, but you clearly don't understand or believe what I'm saying. People on most, if not all social media platforms I have ever seen DbD be a popular topic on have had Q&A negative posts FAR outweigh the positives. If there's actually more positive posts than negative ones about questions hiding under a bush somewhere, I'll happily read them. I used reddit as an example, and saying that every social media combined does not represent the majority of the community is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Unless you can provide actual proof of this, it's far more likely that a majority of DbD players use social media and write/read it more than once a week.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791236#Comment_1791236
There is virtually no medium that can reach every player. Even if you put an in-game pop-up (which most people close without reading anyway) saying to come to the forum and ask your questions, I doubt that would be effective at getting more people to participate.
So granted, the forum does not represent every player, but keep in mind that the people throwing around accusations of "cherry picking" are on the forum. So when you say "the community", what you're really talking about is the "small minority of the forums".
I addressed your first point in a previous comment.
If you did more than gloss over my solution to this you would see that I'm not advocating to just "ask to upvote more". That would be pointless and a waste of time. I suggest you read over it.
Also, this is not true. The comments of cherry-picking being prevalent in Q&A are everywhere, and I wouldn't mix up minority with majority. Literally just search Q&A on reddit and you'll see an example of this: other than the advertizements for the Q&As themselves, they're just used as a punching bag and are often regarded as a joke because of how dumb the questions are.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791221#Comment_1791221
How are the upvotes not already representative of what the community wants to hear?
Because they're the questions asked by a small majority of the forums instead of the large majority of the whole community. If you look literally anywhere and take out the confirmation bias you'll see that most players agree the Q&A is currently in this state. As much as I would like to say the 'upvoted questions' on the forums represent the community, they simply do not because of the lack of knowledge about the questions beforehand. People don't want to upvote because they know their vote doesn't actually change the questions, and now you have a ton of unhappy players because the questions answered weren't wanted at all.
For example: The devs love to just randomly put Lore questions and cosmetic questions in there that I've never even seen on this forum. Where the heck did they come from? I won't know, and neither do most people know (which is where a lot of frustration stems from). Whether that be due to them being buried or just me brushing over them is irrelevant because I could not clearly see the answers chosen, therefore I cannot believe that my say or anyone else's actually went into choosing them. Making it clear that these questions are what the majority want answered through something as simple as a survey gets rid of my, or anyone else's, claim that the current system doesn't reflect what the community wants.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791186#Comment_1791186
The community upvotes the questions, yet you imply these are not the questions the community wants answered. How would you determine what the majority of the community wants, if not by a simple, straightforward vote?
@RockoRango said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791199#Comment_1791199
That's assuming that you both move back to the original system and that the current system isn't being accused of cherry picking by the majority already, both of which being false. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any opposition means it's ineffective but rather that the current Q&A structure makes the majority of the community unhappy and feel alienated from the actual dev team.
May I suggest a simple solution?
- Run the currently picked Q&A questions through a survey a few hours before Q&A goes live.
- Make each question simply be: "Would you like x (the question) to be answered?"
- Give two simple choices, yes or no. Having a middle option would decrease the effectiveness.
- Let people view the results once the Q&A goes live.
This would quite literally get rid of any claim of cherry-picking because you're clearing showing that you chose the questions based off of both upvotes and by what the community actually wants to hear.
oop
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791186#Comment_1791186
and then we'd be back to the system where we're accused of Cherry picking questions and not answering the questions that people want answered.
That's assuming that you both move back to the original system and that the current system isn't being accused of cherry picking by the majority already, both of which being false. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any opposition means it's ineffective but rather that the current Q&A structure makes the majority of the community unhappy and feel alienated from the actual dev team.
May I suggest a simple solution?
- Run the currently picked Q&A questions through a survey a day before Q&A goes live. This means that the Q&A questions will have to be made earlier, but you can simply do that by announcing the Q&A earlier or increasing the time between the questions and live by a day.
- Make each question simply be: "Would you like x (the question) to be answered?"
- Give two simple choices, yes or no. Having a middle option would decrease the effectiveness.
- Give the last question of "Are you, as a member of the community, satisfied with the questions currently chosen?"
- Let people view the results once the Q&A goes live.
This would quite literally get rid of any claim of cherry-picking because you're clearing showing that you chose the questions based off of both upvotes and by what the community actually wants to hear.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1791057#Comment_1791057
We choose the questions that have the most upvotes. We made this change after the feedback we received on these forums about only answering certain questions and not the ones that the Community wanted answered. We make very clear that some things can't be discussed, such as upcoming changes/content etc...but then when we don't pick those questions, we're accused of "cherry picking" - that's why we made the decision to use the questions with the most upvotes.
If the questions that the majority of the community actually wanted were answered you wouldn't see so many threads complaining about every Q&A being useless. You see them before them, you see them after them, yet you still say that you're choosing the right ones based off of upvotes. Even if these questions are based off of upvotes, it just means the system's gathering of questions is ineffective and you should change it further.
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Another Nurse main here. Been playing since the game's launch.
Pre-rework it was very easy to learn Nurse and become a top-tier player because you could learn from your mistakes and still catch yourself if you played correctly. This was very fun and, although it was OP, there was a healthy amount of Nurse players versus the rest of the cast at the time.
Flashing back to her rework, most of the player base (including Nurse mains) were simply in enormous agreement that the add-ons inflated her kill rate and made her unfun to play against. Survivors also constantly DC'd regardless of the Nurse not having add-ons, making her unfun to play as. As a result of this, BHVR proceeded to be a buffoon and announce an ADD-ON REWORK (Not a base kit change, just add-ons) just to turn it into a base kit nerf once the PTB came out. Most people were absolutely pissed that BHVR lied about the changes and 'overnerfed' her power, including myself, while a minority cheered them on and said the base kit was needed. The base kit change somehow made it to live servers despite all the backlash, practically erupting the community, and BHVR completely ignored everyone and everything regarding Nurse ever since.
When it goes live, it was broken as expected but they fixed it over time. But when dedicated servers released? Well, you're experiencing the result that was never fixed; bugs from second blinks hardly working at all to getting stuck in place constantly were, and still are, rampant. I firmly believe that all Nurse players would play the game a whole lot more if they got the nerve to admit the rework broke Nurse and actually fix it.
Going forward, there's little-to-no players like me left now. Most veterans left or are in hiatus due to boredom, as I have been recently, and new players don't play Nurse because the rework did nothing but make her learning curve so steep it's dumb. If you still play her you're assumed to be a DBD veteran that demolishes everyone or an extreme pleb that gets crushed. Overall, she's viable but not fun in her current state.
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Community on forums: *Posts issue list like I did when Pyramid Head came out*
Forum Mods: It's all over, lawbreaker! Your spree is at an end. I'll take any stolen goods you have to the feedback section. The next move is yours -- Learn from your crimes or I’ll ban you away!"
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1725427#Comment_1725427
Okay, first of all, with other killers, the counterplay is a lot more even and about genuine competition, which is what makes it fun. Second of all, don't bring skill level into this in such a manner. Why would you ever assume that the player isn't good? That makes no sense. At all. All of these sorts of things should be assuming that both sides are decent players, because otherwise that argument fits every single killer. All of them.
Edit: and my point is that you DONT PREDICT. Scenario: survivor goes behind a wall. You blink to the edge of the wall where you last saw them. They double back, they get hit. The keep going, your second blink gets them. They vault or drop a a pallet, your second blink gets them. No big brain required, just know-how and muscle memory.
Your edit is false. A good survivor will either:
A) Predict this and run away from the wall, making the Nurse unable to get them
B) Try to juke the Nurse around the wall, which is far more likely to trick someone if it's played correctly.
C) Fake running towards the Nurse, making her waste her second blink.
D) Running backwards (This usually doesn't work and just looks stupid)
A good Nurse has to predict/counter one of these, depending on:
A) How the survivor plays. Is he making elaborate jukes, or constantly faking?
B) What type of wall the survivor is behind. Can you just see through the wall for a free hit?
C) If the survivor tends to juke, is it better to teleport at that corner or where they think you won't go (I.E at their current position)?
D) Are there any ways to herd the survivor towards others if you can't currently get them (assuming they're looping around a deadzone, like a jerk)?
Overall, a Nurse has to think about just as many scenarios as the survivor does, creating a good amount of counter play on both sides. It all depends on if the survivor actually knows how to do so.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1710957#Comment_1710957
And here is the problem - when people see someone with OoO, they lose all capability of rational thought and their vision turns red. Tunnelling a decent player who's using OoO and then camping them out is the best way to get 1 kill at most, and that's if you're lucky, regardless of whether they are playing solo queue or not.
That's fine if you're a rookie, but the amount of people who've put countless hours into the game and still have this problem is astounding.
When you load up in a match against an OoO user, try to think about the big picture, instead of developing tunnel vision and only being able to see that one Survivor's aura
No one cares about the big picture of a 6-13 minute match. I would rather tunnel the living crap out of an OoO user and make their game insanely boring (for trying to make mine insanely boring/frustrating) in the hopes that they get tired of it and not be anti-fun.
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Jeez, really? If I'm being frank, it shouldn't take multiple delays to release sales. I personally don't care, as I have everything, but it still looks bad.
Thanks for informing people in this thread, at least.
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@aregularplayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711175#Comment_1711175
Are you telling me to learn something from a guy who can't pass rank 20 survivor? You better be kidding. It's not because he is a Hag main that he has something to teach to anybody. His "play style" is exactly why people hate Hag:
- get bamboozled 32 times
- miss 75 hits
- get 360ed 49 times
- lose 4 gens
- finally down your first survivor
- camp the poor soul
Yes, yes I am.
No matter if you hate his play style or the fact he hardly plays survivor, his Hag guide is very solid and can help you with understanding what her weaknesses are. Besides, he's explained numerous times why aiming his attacks is hard for him (eye problems, which is relatable) and I've hardly seen him during his streams camping or losing due to having a horrible play style.
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@Aneurysm said:
Actually bhvr is a small indie company, which I'm pretty sure means it's just mcote and like 2-3 other people all living and working in his car. Anyway we need to buy more skins or they'll have no food this Christmas, let alone presents. Or have you no heart, good sir?
Community: *Gives $5 to buy thicc Jane skin*
BHVR: "Thank you, kind sir!"
I wish
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@aregularplayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1710896#Comment_1710896
can you teach us how to play against her efficiently? a video would be appreciated. ty
The effective way to counter her is to know how to play her, as said previously:
It's not that different from Nurse, which is why I enjoy her a lot. Predict where the survivors will go, and zone them to a place that you have an advantage at. Do this by placing traps in areas survivors need to pass, like the route to the shack, and at loops.
If you don't have a loop covered that they go to, cover it. They'll either be ballsy and try to play around your husk, which you can mind game, or they'll run to another loop you can trap (increasing your pressure by putting traps in important spots). If they're able to play around it or waste enough time? You lose the chase.
That's really the basics. If you wanna know more, SpaceCoconut's Hag guide is very helpful. Just ignore the fact he's banned from the forums :)
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1710963#Comment_1710963
Well...anything that is completely uninteractive like Hag isn't gonna be considered fun by almost anyone. It's a justified complaint, why are you and so many others so hell-bent on insulting these people with valid complaints and opinions about a killer they don't like, and are ultimately not having fun? It's not illegal to complain about something you don't like is it? Unless this is a new rule on the forums that I'm not aware of. And that 2nd point about survivors making killers conform to rules and the killer letting them all escape is literally not true in the slightest.
I can agree with your former post, but not the latter. Hag's power can be interacted heavily by the survivors to be worthless (flashlights), and they can be triggered to distract a bad Hag from a chase.