Stop nerfing NEW strong survivor perk -- here is the reason.
i keep listening and reading about Killer mains saying Survivors have to many second chance perks, that everyone use only meta perks. but i also read and listen to them saying "nerf this and that perk" example Mettle of Man.
When mettle of man came out for the first time it was Broken af but after the first nerf it was pretty good but somehow killer mains still complained about how broken it still was when you needed 3 unhooks to get that perk activated.
now i listen to people saying the upcomming perk is to strong for the new survivor what will give you the BT effect and they again ask for a nerf. now the real question is.. are you really sick of people using only DS,Adren,BT or do you just want them to use these perk? if you really want them to use something different why you want everything to get nerfed? that is not how it works. you cant ask all the time for a nerf and then complain about "every survivor use the same build" well maybe because of that reason?
Anyways i took a look ingame to the perks of survivors and i saw exactly 20 useful perks you could use in rank1 against rank 1 killers.
then i went to killer perks to see how many useful perks killers have and i count 36 + all different killers you can play + synergy of some builds.
for survivors you dont have the choice if you wanna win. means no meme builds. with the +50survivor perks you can maybe do 3-4 synergized perk builds what will help you to win.
now here are the perks if you're intersted on my list.
Survivor
And here the Killer perk list.
Now the question here is do you really want people to use perks like Streetwise, Vigil, Autoditact (what is never working because of RNG) or lightweight? or do you really want to ask all the time for a nerf for a good perk so survivors are forced to use the Meta to have a chance or fun in a game?
Killer mains need to stop with thinking every game is against a SWF. you maybe wont belive it but there also people like me who play solo, or duo. so do everyone a favor and stop asking for a nerf and maybe ask for a buff for the bad survivor perks and maybe people start using them? i guess that is enough ranting against the MAIN player.
maybe change your mind and try the opposite side? you'll get more understanding about everything.
Comments
So you are suggesting that because someone else brings a perk, I can't use my own stuff? Sorry but no. I'm fine with getting DS'ed during the EGC. I either have enough kills or lost anyways.
While you are bringing up a real issue, I don't think it's the issue you think you are.
Basically, most Survivor perks are either amazing or varying degrees of bad.
Killer perks are much less polarized, with more perks that are simply good and not amazing.
Basically, strong Survivor perks tend to be stronger than strong Killer perks. However the Killers have more strong perks in the first place.
As a Killer main I tell you, even though its your opinion on perks, dance with me + lithe + QnQ is just that damn good it wastes the killer a lot of time if no scratchmarks are visible or no LOS, iron grasp is bad, prove thyself helps for doing the objective not a big boost but it helps, fixated is great but the only thing that sucks about it is that if you are injured it doesn't give you a boost, remember me is meh, sometimes work sometimes doesn't on certain maps, thana needs a buff because the only killer that can use it's full potential is legion, distortion is good but needs a buff as well.
We killer mains just want balanced stuff, not be stressed every single match.
Oh hi, another post you are complaining on perks like bbq, at this point you are just entitled
I would argue that Fixated, Calm Spirit, Head On, and Lithe are all viable rank 1 survivor perks.
I'd also argue that Distressing, Dark Devotion, Blood Echo, Dying Light, Shadowborn and Deerstalker are viable killer perks.
Excellent post. Couldn't have been said better. Survivors having second chance perks are way too powerful individually but now we have even non-SWF teams fully loaded with these things.
Killer mains are probably confused by their "good killer perks"
Either you never played killer or you are never missing a shot with Billy to use play with your food on him what a noob.
Also you survivor mains who loop killers try bubba and feel the pain and ask devs to fix him or rework him.
How is hiding the whole game fun? Interacting with the killer is by far the most exciting thing that can occur. I understand u are entitled to your own opinion, but I really suggest you pull your weight by distracting the killer instead of urban evading in the corner of the map. Trust me, you'll will enjoy dbd so much more
I disagree a few of your killer choices by adding ....
a yellow box for situational and ...
a circle with a line through it as an okay perk but not meta.
I counted 10 perks that are decent.
Looking at the survivor perks I see so many but the key to this would be synergy where killers have less e.g. where you could have old ruin, corrupt and pgtw working together at the moment only corrupt with work concurrently with another. This would be a gen defence build but corrupt is time limited, ruin is cleanable and pgtw depends on performance and luck getting to a reasonably worked on generator before completion.
Survivors used to be able to run an exhaustion perk with balanced landing but exhaustion perks whilst time limited is reusable.
I'd question why Selfcare, Tenacity, UrbanE, Small game, WGTMI aren't mention especially as Selfcare is the most used perk.
There are more decent/meta survivor perks with locker, resilience, chase, generator builds there is far better synergy but with SWF on comms removing the need and adding perks that aren't even available the second chance perks make them take the power role in this game.
The new perk from what I hear is two perks into one with a BT and unbreakable I know like many others I'll be paying for it on release before it shortly after rightly gets nerfed.
I'm not the one asking for a stress free match every game.
Exactly. Survivors have all the momentum and killers have all the stress. It's why I uninstalled.
I agree with your opinion regarding perks. majority of the perks are lackluster for both sides and I feel like a lot of the meme perks in DBD are worse than they really have to be. I feel like players fail to realize that the majority of perks used for the intention of getting free hits/second chances on both sides. This can be very direct or indirect.For example, Iron will and Quick&Quiet are juke perks. Their objective is to juke killers and confuse killers for which direction you went. By juking the killer, you can often waste more time than even exhaust perks. Some perks are more direct than others, for example Dead hard is very clear cut second chance perk. Dead hard for distance has been used for very long time in the games lifespan and it is still used a lot to this day.
Killers also have free hit perks. Not every free hit perk will always activate, just like not every survivor perk is always game winning and when it comes to killer, there is a lot variations of this. For example, Enduring spirit fury is probably clear cut version of dead hard for killer. It gives you free hits. Perks like Monitor hope that survivor doesn't pay attention to the TR and it can give you free hits in some situations. you can look perks like Hex:Ruin and Pop goes weasel are very commonly used generator regression perks and part of the reason is because generator slowdown perks give second chances to killers if they have a bad chase and they allow killer to extend the game for more potential future hits.
Perks in DBD are zero sum game. You win some, you lose some. The perks for both sides are intentional meant to cancel each others advantages. Their major objective is to add spice to the game. they can help to customize a fantasy in a game and sometimes they create the fantasy. Many fantasy are often competitive, but sometimes, they are just for fun. It is important that both sides are able to have fun in the game.
Yes but you are the one saying "godly aura reading perks like bbq and it deserves a nerf" blah blah or "godly speedy killers" that have more than enough counters but you just want nerfs instead of learning, you survivor mains always say git gud, so now when we say it back all you guys ask are nerfs and go directly to the "you braindead killer" or "playing killer is easy compared to survivors" must be hard holding M1 on a gen.
I love that you just assumed a bunch of ######### about my playstyle.
Disregarding all your assumptions, I'll just leave you with this: fun is subjective.
@Sluzzy
Let me add to that and say... the meta will never change as long as built-in mechanics like the holy trinity (Camping|Sluggging|Tunneling) are a thing.
I say built-in because every killer can use them.
So back to the original title of the post, yes the new unnamed perk everyone is waiting to get should be nerfed but financially only after everyone has bought it.
I see it as two perks in one and will see the demise of unbreakable at least on release.
I agree with alert. Such an underrated perk that I don't see enough people using.
So true. It's a perk that tells you:
All this for free, with an unlimited range, and no cooldown.
They are called second chance perks. Not 4 chances. That's the issue.
I've got a couple builds for you as a consistent R1 survivor. I use the first three regularly.
Kindred + Open Handed (this stacks) + Better Together + Iron Will/Any other perk
Sprint burst/Head On + Vigil (this also stacks) + Fixated + Iron Will/Any other perk
Diversion + Red Herring + Head On + Technician
This last build is definitely not the strongest, but it can be alright if you like to hide because you can still be useful to your team by potentially keeping the killer distracted. Technician makes the Gen you're working on quieter so that you may be less likely to get interrupted working on it when the others are running the killer. Especially if they're looping near you. If the killer loses them or you want to cause a distraction, you can either throw a pebble (preferably away from your team if possible) OR activate Red Herring on your Gen and keep doing so if possible to keep the killer on your Gen and away from the others/your team. Head On for that sticky situation where the killer is going to check the locker you're using for Red Herring.
You can tell this man watches to much noob, doesn't even realize that survivors don't even need perks to win that's how strong a team can be. Plus not too mention that he thinks that thana, remember me, iron grasp, agitation, bamboozle, gearhead, stridor, knock out overcharge, ruin, surveillance, nemesis, play with your food, devour, bloodwarde, and brutal are good perks. They are all situational and not reliable, no where near as reliable as survivor perks.
Sorry what
Yes weaker perks should be buffed to shake the meta. No you shouldn't ignore the other stronger perks that could qualify as too strong just for the sake of shaking up the meta.
People here already made the good points.
You don't want survivors being able to take a million hits before they go down. Go watch a youtuber or streamer playing survivor and pay attention to their builds. Often times they'll be running at least on 2nd chance perk if not multiple. Almost always DS, usually adrenaline and/or some sort of exhaustion perk, and maybe even Borrowed Time. There's a reason for this, and it's because those perks are already godly and they make the game much easier. Every time they add something in that allows survivors to take yet another hit, they're creating another tool that survivors can stack along with the others to make things that much easier for themselves. When multiple survivors are running all these different perks, it just makes for situations where the killer can't do anything because it's just a lose-lose. Typical example that already exists being DS+Unbreakable.
I'm not against making "strong" survivor perks, but there needs to be something that prevents survivors from just stacking a bunch of stuff like that together. Even if anybody wants to say "ooooo you need all the 2nd chance perks for when you're going against sweaty killers with purple addons and an ebony mori" all I really have to say to that is, maybe stuff like that shouldn't exist in the state it's in either. I don't exactly think there should even be a situation where if either side isn't running the absolute strongest things possible, then they pretty much automatically lose. Perks and addons should help the game, sure, but while certain things like BT might be strong and sometimes even necessary against facecamping, I think perks and addons should mostly be for just having nice little boosts or things that help keep things interesting in the game (think bodyblocker Hag/drift king Billy).
Dude my bro and I use some absolutely braindead builds and we still remain in red ranks. Right now I'm using plunderers, Ace in the hole, and aces perk that increases luck, with saboteur for memes. My brother uses head on, quick and quiet, saboteur and borrowed, just so we don't get farmed straight off the hook. We are still consistently pipping as well as escaping a majority of the time. You can play as you want and if you don't take the game super serious it'll go just fine.
Please. Killers have insta down powers with unlimited use. You making too simple a comparison. Survs using "sec chance" perks is fine bc killers have plenty of perks AND powers that cut survs health state in half.
Hillbilly, bubba, ghostface, pinky clown, iri head huntress, oni, perma 3 myers plague*
8/20 killers can instadown
4 can insta down forever at base 5 if survs never cleanse.
3 require expensive add ons.
1/5th of the killers can reliabily instadown it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
"Stop nerfing NEW strong survivor perk."
This is an assymetrical game; Survivor perks need to be under 4x as much scrutiny because if a Survivor perk is strong, it can be equipped on FOUR players.
So your solution to people not liking the OP survivor perks is that if there were tons of OP perks then the builds would be more diverse?
Your list is bad.
Next.
It's better to hide when you don't need to be seen. That's their playstyle. Unless you don't need to be seen, not everyone is gonna run up to the killer, go ClICkY CliCkY and then try and run them for as long as possible. It's literally hide-and-seek. Hide, and when found, run.
No bc killers have powers and base abilities added to their kit.
I didn't say it was bad I said it was fair. You have plenty of insta down killers and perks to choose from and they are used very frequently at high ranks. If you prefer other killers that's on you not the surv using d strike.
I don't bother playing DBD anymore unless a new killer / survivor is announced, because at the end of the day, something like 75% of the perks that survivors have are absolute trash. And so you spend the bulk of your time using a handful of useful perks. They really need to re-think how they balance this game. It's just not fun to play anymore, knowing that I'll just have to keep using the exact same setup every time I go into a game. There's only a few variations that are actually worth using. The rest are just "fun gotcha" moment setups, that you'd use as a way to break up the monotony this game so desperately suffers from. And truth be told, this new survivors perks are so blah that I'm still on the fence on whether I'm going to bother coming back for the Silent Hill DLC.
Survivors don't really need any perks at all to be competitive in this game, they just need teamwork. The advantage of having three teammates outweighs anything currently in any killer's kit or possible build - it's just up to the survivors to use it (and no, you don't have to be swf on comms to work as a team). Survivor perks should be relatively inconsequential because otherwise a squad that does rise to the challenge and works as a team in addition to having super useful perks (swf or not) is virtually unbeatable. Which is pretty much what we have.
Part of the problem with the game design as it stands is that it feels balanced to four separate 1v1s instead of a 4v1.
And Survivors have items and addons for their base kit (x4 Survivors)...
I'm finding it difficult to take you seriously.
First of all, you said MoM being nerfed to 3 safe unhooks was fine. So literally all four survivors could potentially get an extra health state by just unhooking... Way too strong lol. Imagine if killers were given a perk that allowed them to instantly down a survivor after 3 downs in a match (which was repeatedly usable)
As for circling perks, you're trying a bit too hard to get your opinion across.
Perks such as lithe and headon are still great perks if used well. Even plunderers and wglf have their uses.
As for killer, I seriously question you putting perks like bloodwarden, overcharge, knockout, iron grasp and gearhead on the list. They really don't have any great use. (apart from bloodwarden in meme builds I guess)
"for survivors you dont have the choice if you wanna win. means no meme builds. with the +50survivor perks you can maybe do 3-4 synergized perk builds what will help you to win."
Survivors get really strong with perks, don't get me wrong, but you can still win reliably without them. Plenty of people (including myself) do it. Same goes for killer (although its a tad more necessary for them). For survivor you got 3 other players with full perk loadouts backing you up.
I don't care about bias. Make all perks actually good and usable. This chapter most of the killer perks seem trash, but you aren't really mentioning them. Make both the survivor and killer perks good, and usable in the meta, and I'll be happy.
Same goes for all perks.
People on this thread seem to be referencing different groups of survivors. That is part of the difficulty of these discussions regarding this game. You have
1. 4,000 hour youtube streamers and rank 1 pros at playing survivor
2. Swf teams
3. Solo queue individual players.
In some senses there are several right answers. The same perks are too strong for the 1st group, slightly strong for the second group and ok for the 3rd group.
It depends on what group and skill level that BHVR is balancing around.
On both sides we need less perk nerfs. Remember PTB Hangman's Trick? That would've been awesome but bhvr is still too scared to shake up the meta. I think they just don't really want to try and balance new perks, but they still have to release something new for the chapters. The meta as a whole needs to change or else the game won't sustain. Many people complain about how it's too repetitive and the meta is a huge part of that. I'd like to see both killer and survivor perks be completely changed. Like nerf all of the strong ones and buff the weakest ones to the sky.
Strong survivors will work on gens injured and IF they encounter another survivor they can choose to let them heal them.
Or you can waste 40 seconds Self Caring while Sloppy Butcher is in effect. Killers will be very happy about “stealth” players like that.
Personally I think there are better perks than others, but any perk can be used. I like my meta perks because I run an aggressive running the killer build (Iron will, dead hard, spine chill, resilience). However, when I play kyf we do perk roulette and get random perks to use/random killers and killer perks. Its not so much about what's absolutely best it's about what your play style is, your skill level, the killer's skill, and if the perk is useful for the situation.
Well, without sloppy butcher another survivor needs 16 seconds, where neither he nor me does anything else. I need 32 seconds to selfcare, but i can do it while i hide from the killer while juking him.
Also, if you play solo, you might find the other survivors dont heal you. They finish the gen with you, then run off to the next, and if the killer comes he most likly chooses the easiest target. Killers are also very happy about that.
Also, clever survivors can still try to let others heal them if sloppy is in effect, even though they have self care, because self care dosnt prevent healing from others, you know.
I find that most survivors will heal you (points), but maybe you’re just getting unlucky with your teammates.
Killers would much rather you waste 40 seconds self caring against Sloppy instead of getting an “easy target”. You only lose a couple seconds smacking somebody into injured state and if you’re a good killer the chase shouldn’t last much longer. A couple seconds versus 40 seconds... guess who the winner is?
You can see that my argument is build on " you dont have to do it if the skiller has sloppy", because you dont do it then, yet you argue only about "but if the killer has sloppy", while ignoring my other point. No point in arguing with you, because you either can´t comprehend what the other side says, or you just ignore it.
I had the patience for survivors and here's the list for survivor perks that I find useful
To me some of these crossed out perks are actually more useful than some that you circled.
While I agree... I would say that some perks could be looked at
I see more perks being used on the survivor side... But I'm not skilled enough to see the killer side (I admit it)
But can you agree with me when I say that just looking at perks by just how viable they are isn't the whole point...
As already stated killer played, playstyle and survivors playstyle have more to say about viability then just perks alone
Also can I ask if this is your opinion or something you can prove?