NOED has counter play, DS dosen't
I've been seeing a few posts about nerfing NOED (right after Ruin was just gutted), and it seems like more entitled survivors whining because the game still isn't easy enough for them. While its really DS that needs a nerf, as it has no counterplay and has very little skill required to activate. People say "just slug", but thats not counterplay, its mitigation. Instead of being able to get a hook and get the survivor down another state, it just leave them on the ground to be picked up in under 20 seconds by someone else. All it needs is to deactivate either after someone else is hooked or after they leave the killers terror radius. And then it will be an actual anti-tunnel perk and not just 60 seconds of immunity.
Comments
slugging is not the same as hooking a second/third time. It does not create the same pressure
I lose to DS in the EGC fairly often. Maybe 10% of the matches. It literally has no counter once the doors are open.
Step 1. Use infectious fright or discordance
Step 2. Slug possible DS user
Step 3. Find another survivor and get them while the other recovers and the other survivors get off gens to get the pick up and heal
OR ALTERNATIVELY
Go for someone else in the first place and dont waste your time on them if youre too scared of DS
OR ALSO ALTERNATIVELY
Down them, pick them up and hope for the best. Theres a decent amount of survivors who either dont have the perk or will just miss. If they do have it, just eat it and be thankful they wont have it later.
Unless its endgame, then you just gotta take that L and move on.
How often are these two perks actually used? From my own experience DS appears in ~90% of my killer matches and is equipped by on average two of those survivors. While playing survivor I've only encountered NOED twice in the last three months. I play on PC about 60/40 killer/survivor and generally stay around rank 10 in both. If NOED is really that much of an issue I really want to know the numbers cause I must just be super lucky as a survivor and super unlucky as killer.
pretty overpowed if you ask me :)
DS is just as much a crutch. I rewards poor choices on the part of survivor just like NOED does for killer. You can't get mad about killers one second chance perks when survivors have like 6 some of which can be used at the same time.
I don't think it's fair to say ds rewards bad choices on the survivor (At least not the survivor using it). I use it in solo for when the killer tunnels or a "teammate" farms me. This game was designed to be a 4 v 1 but solo survivor feels more like you're against the killer and other survivors.
As killer I have no problem with DS. I don't tunnel. Simple. Or I have the brain cells to know who was uncooked in the last 60 seconds and the cop on not to pick them up.
As for NOED I think it's fine. It rewards a killer for playing with only 3 perks. Survivors can just do totems.
At the end of the day both perks are used to counter aspects both sides complain about the most - tunnelling and gen rush.
No no I get that, my point was that at that point you probably didn't lose the whole game because of that DS. Before that survivors had to complete all the gens and so on. But I get it that it's frustrating to lose a kill, maybe the only kill of the match at that point because of a perk.
Why is it that everytime a killer perk is nerfed they automatically hop on the next train to nerf another. Maybe they should remove killers and just make the game an escape room at this point
I completely agree with that, but still considering that a good player doesn't need crutch to play well and keeping in mind that NOED is currently one of the reasons why we can't get decent totems spawns, I would be down for taking a "hit" and getting it nerfed considering it's a perk that I don't need but rather I would definitely need my other Hex perks to spawn in a decent manner.
Need one nerf for DS. If you in a locker DS not working.
While I see where you are coming from NOED is not why we don't have good totem spawns. It's just one of those problems that happened and is slowly getting fixed like with the lery rework. It's something they are working but it will take time.
I see where you are coming from but at this point ds isn't a anti tunnel perk because you can down and hook someone then go back and still be hit by it. It rewards the survivor for failing to get away from the hook outside if that I completely agree with you. I don't mind either perk I just have a problem with people complaining about killers one second chance perk while survivors have like 6.
DS and NoED are both fine. I say that as someone who plays survivor and killer equally. Perks are meant to make lives easier for those who use them (Except No Mither)
Also, killers get less second chance perks because they are the role with power. A killer who's caught a survivor can camp, tunnel and end the game for a survivor. Survivors can only end the killer's game by either completing the objective or using an outside item (which killers also have with Mori's). So survivors need second chance perks to stay in the game, while killers do not (instead they need slowdown perks, which Killers have a LOT of)
Of course NOED isn't the only reason why, to this day, totem spawns are still unreliable, but if you take a look at certain spots on, for example, Macmillan Estate maps, you will realize that some could just be completely wiped off as they are just ludicrous but I'm quite sure that devs are refrained from overall "cubing" every spawn due to certain strong perks that should be easily cleansed because of the incredible advantage they give
With this being said, I wish that some secondary objective was as mandatory as Generators are so that games could last longer and getting to be the gen-jockey isn't as boring as actually holding M1 on one single object type, it's not like I'm here saying that survivors should always be able to genrush without having to be bothered by totems, it's just not enough of an encouragement.
To be completely fair, they could even just repopulate all the maps with a higher amount of pallets, nerf something for killers here and there and make NOED a base kit ability, I just don't like the inconsistency of it.
DS has a counterplay, it's called a mori, you don't do a secong grab, you just kill the survivor on the ground.
You're welcome.
If you insist on going after the person who was just unhooked then you're choosing to risk a DS stun. If you don't want that risk then you have two choices. Either slug or go after the person who saved them.
Oh God, you just have opened Pandora's box ...
DS does have a counter but you have to burn an Ultra Rare offering (Ebony Mori). Had a Yui last night that ran straight to a gen after getting unhooked, just inviting me to yank her off. So i just downed her from beside and Mori'd her. I checked after and she indeed had DS.
Moral of the story: Don't nerf Moris. It's a one time use offering that provides counter play to the best perk in the game.
I think fair trade would be nerf both of them hard. Sounds good right?
DS does have counterplay, it's called not picking up the survivor.
Leaving somebody bleeding on the ground is viable counterplay as it pulls people off generators longer.
Honestly, I used to be somebody who used to jokingly call DS "Abusive Strike" - right now it's in the best condition it ever has been in, leave it alone.
Both perks are fine. Maps need to change.
This is the attitude thats a problem. Its tunneling to play effeciently and just playing in general. Its right out of the survivor's rule book for killers.
Best it has ever been does not mean it is not an over powered perk. And honestly I'll take the old new DS then new new ds. At least then It was only one person who got it instantly and I could juggle them to a hook if I was close enough. It had actual counterplay. This one just activates as soon as someone gets off a hook and then is 60 seconds of immunity.
New DS is one of the best change in the game. Killers dont know tunneling is the worst thing in the game (Yes it worse than a survivor pressing crouch button multiple times). Since this change came out it really helped the gameplay. No changes to this perk needed.
If by helped the gameplay you mean give the survivors even more power in the non power role? Then yes. But its made things horrible for killers. And tea bagging is way worse then tunneling. Tunneling is an actual strategy, tea bagging is just being rude.
I 100% perfer GF or Piggy tea bag me after every down, than having them tunnelling.
You talk about slugging against DS now see what survivors usually do against that
1. BT after unhook
2, a. Locker
2, b. Unbreakable
Where is the counterplay may I ask you
I get both side since I play killer and survivor equally. The main reason I run DS is to have a chance to get away from a killer that camps the hook. Game after game it the same thing, I run the killer for 3-4 gens and when they finally catch me, the stay at the hook. No how is that far for me to die straight off the hook because the killer will not let the unhook happen? As for noed, good killers will not be running this for they have the skill to do good without it. You manly see it run all the time in mid ranks. Both perks are fine, people just need to stop playing so dam toxic.