Lobby Dodging VS Disconnecting in match (would love a Dev response)
If I understand correctly the new DC penalties are to punish people that disconnect in a match simply because they don't like the way the match is going. The rationale is that disconnecting is unfair to the rest of the people in the match. I 100% agree this needed to be done.
I posted a thread yesterday about queue times on PS4 and had people started commenting on it how when they play killer and they get stuck in a lobby they don't like because of the amount of survivors with toolboxes or whatever reason they just dodge it. Toolboxes are part of the game. The rationale behind dodging in this situation is no different than the rationale of disconnecting in a match. They don't like something so they dodge. Dodging is still disconnecting. It's just done in the lobby instead of the match. It's just as unfair to the people you dodged as disconnecting in match. Sometimes it's more unfair because you may end up waiting 30 minutes or more for your lobby to fill again.
Why does lobby dodging get a free pass when it's done for exactly the same reason as disconnecting?
Comments
At least you played.
The whole game lasted 7 minutes give or take, nobody scored points it doesn't make any sense to play like that. Boring games
That would mean there is only one killer available on ps4 every 20-30 minutes. That is patently not true. Your lobby jumps to the top, per Peanits post earlier in this thread. So you get the first killer available. If it really is 30 minutes per killer, then everyone after you waits even longer. I'm sorry but I don't believe that. Maybe record next time it happens because that is either a bug, or a blatant exaggeration.
I see a lot of survivors suicide when they don't like the killer or the map. I've actually had multiple matches where a survivor threw down random pallets and then followed me like a lost puppy until I hooked them so they could suicide.
Not all killers would just refuse to play--some might take in a mori, instead--but I know players who just afk when they get a map they don't like. Or a group of survivors pops three gens before they've finished their first chase, so they just break off and go stand at a door.
With matchmaking as bad as it is right now, I see a lot of killers who aren't really trying. They sort of give up mid-match. And that's with being able to choose their lobby. If they're forced to play with a group of survivors they'd have rather dodged, I can't imagine they would bother at all; they would just afk so they can move on to a match they actually want to play until they just stop playing killer at all and switch to survivor or another game completely.
Bs, if the killer leaves it takes about 15 seconds to get another one
"Rules for thee and not for me."
You're basically saying it's okay for killers to dip out of a match that looks unpleasant, but survivors should just suck it up and play a match against an unpleasant setup.
If this DC system is going in as it is, then lobby dodging either needs to be treated to the same penalty, or the survivors need to see what the killer is, the quality of the addons, and if there's a mori.
Otherwise you are going to have a lot of suicides on your hands.
If Survivor's want to dodge lobby's, that's fine. So long as they don't DC, I really don't care.
Isn't that always the way it is?
A killer sees toolboxes and they should have the right to dodge. They see Claudettes and don't want to play against those they should have the right to dodge. Did the survivors in the lobby have keys? They should have the right to dodge.
Let a survivor say they don't want to play against a particular perk or a particular killer and they get told it's just part of the game and they should just shut up and play.
For the record I'm not actually saying I shouldn't have to play against a particular perk or killer. Just saying if it's perfectly acceptable for killers to be able to choose to not participate in a match because they don't like what they see in the lobby survivors should get the same option.
As long as I can see if the game will be unfun before I go in I'm cool with it. But loading in just to see an iri head huntress with infantry belt and ebony mori is a game not worth playing.
What I was saying is that lobby dodging shouldn't matter, because you should find games fast. I don't think Survivors need any more info, but things need to be made a little more fun.
That's the thing though. Killers get to see the survivors. They get to see if the survivors have toolboxes or whatever. They get to see if any of the survivors are someone that has harassed them before. Survivors don't get any of those options to know if they want to dodge.
Because Killers need that basic info, they are under time pressure and should know if they need to switch things up.
Survivors hold the power in the early game, they do not need more info, at least at that stage of the game. Rework the stuff that isn't fun but keep it strong.
Basically, don't do what was done to Prayer Beads.
Once again though... ever since the implementation of dedicated servers on PS4 I absolutely do not find games fast. Not even close. My wait times are LONG.
Because part of the experience is that killers are supposed to have greater initial information, and survivors are supposed to be unaware of who the killer is. The lobby is intentionally arranged this way.
There's also a difference between avoiding players who are intentionally being rude, and avoiding a game just because you don't like a certain mechanic. Killers are punished just as much as survivors are if they DC because players are using mechanics they don't like.
Man if they started punishing leaving a lobby too I would just quit. That would be a deal breaker for me like at some point we gotta set a limit of how unpleasant and inhospitable we want the game to be.
I completely understand the thought that you want to be able to change things up before the match based on what you see in the lobby. I could say the same thing as a survivor. If I see a Ghostface I may want to equip spine chill. If I see a doc I may want to equip calm spirit.
What I am saying is that it shouldn't be that way, they should be fairly fast.
Not enough Killers ig, or not enough Red Rank Killers.
That's part of playing Survivor tho. You don't know quite what you are gonna get. They aren't meant to have a ton of info at base. That gives them a lot of power.
I understand what you are saying. I even partially agree. I don't even actually have much of an issue with a killer being able to adjust their loadout based on what they see in the lobby. It's the whole thing of just bailing if they don't like it.
You're right. If they could fix whatever problem happened when they put dedicated servers on the PS4 this issue might resolve itself. As it is right now though my long waits were created the moment the servers went in place. Maybe that's the issue I should be harping on.
I honestly don't even have that much of an issue with killers seeing the survivors, but not the other way around. I do think as a survivor I should be able to at least see the username of the killer I am facing because there are those that have been harassing in the past that I shouldn't have to play against. The other half of that is I still don't think killers should be ducking a lobby because of toolboxes or Claudettes.
I don't condone it, but I can understand why people don't want to play against toolboxes right now. Two to three gens pop in the first chase, with toolboxes, it could be four.
That isn't fun or fair.
If you can think of a way to allow killer information to be hidden while also giving survivors the needed information to know a match will be unpleasant before it even starts, feel free to suggest it. The only thing I can really think of is to show in pre-game lobby whether a mori is equipped, but even that would be giving survivors information they shouldn't necessarily have, since that would tell them whether a hidden offering is a mori or a shroud.
I understand that. I don't condone disconnecting in a match, but I certainly understand wanting to do so when a killer is slugging everyone.
I'm actually not worried about much killer info. A lot of what I said was kind of trying to make a point. I would be satisfied if survivors got to see the username of the killer. I think they absolutely should get that. Would I like more? Sure I would. But we deserve to not have to play against killers that have harassed us in the past.
Why not? The other side doesn't care about you anyway. Screw em.
Ah, gotcha. No worries, you're good. The name would be almost totally fine, except you could make a stronger prediction about who they might pick if you've played with them enough. But, well, that's a strong call to make, especially if you're playing against a bunch of folks. So yeah, showing the name would be good.
I blame the slugging meta on the current DS meta since slugging is really the only counter to DS which is used by a very large number of survivors. As far as the difference goes, DCing in game affects 4 people for that whole trial whereas dodging a lobby because you recognize a toxic player's username or you're up against two toolboxes and two flashlights, or four blendettes, or any other indication that a game is gonna be a waste of time/abusive/toxic you're only adding a few seconds to the survivors wait while a new killer is added to the lobby.
Some irony to this is that the lobby used to show survivors rank to each other, and survivors would lobby dodge all the time. They joined a lobby, didn't like the way it looked, and left. Same thing imo.
It doesn't apply to both sides. I said The Killer not Survivor. You covered two possibilities but didn't address the third:
Survivors cannot leave if they see (the username of) a Killer that has harassed them in the past.
That's the one I am referring to. In this scenario, the Survivor has no choice but to deal with a potentially hostile and toxic match.
Killers can and do harass you if they remember you. I had The Clown face camp me until the end because the previous match I dared to use DS on him lol I got him a third time an hour later and again face camped. If I knew The Killer was the same person, I would've just dodged his lobby due to past problems.On the topic of actually seeing The Killer's character selection, that will never happen. It would be too much information but I think it would be fair to see their username/ID or simply eliminate anyone from seeing this information in the lobby.
There's a simple solution.. Remove the killers ability to see the survivors and what items they bring during lobbies.. Survivors cant see who the killers are or what addons they're bringing.. so why should killers get to see what we have?
Why are Killers able to see the survivors and their addons in Lobbies, but Survivors cant see what killer they're facing?
I also don't support it, but I understand why people do it.
Because the game is massively in the Survivors favor when the trial first starts, the Killer needs that information. Giving Survivors that info will cause an even larger imbalance of power than we already have
Before dedicated I used to lobby dodge when I saw 4 survivors join my lobby at the same time. It was the most fun I had with swf.
Killers get to decide if they want to play the team, if the team don't ready up when I'm a killer I'll move onto my next insta lobby
Because then when they're facing a Doc, everyone survivor would equip Calm Spirit, nullifying a large part of Doc's power. Stuff like that. A lot of killers' powers can be almost if not completely countered with a perk. Meanwhile, a survivor is just a skin; they could be running any perk. The killer can see what items survivors bring in, but they don't know if that's a brown toolbox or a green toolbox, and they certainly don't know what add-ons are attached to those items.
You're missing the point. Killers get the option to bail on games they don't like the look of. Survivors don't. So as long as we have to load into a game before finding out it's going to be a waste if time, there will be DC's. Or suicides now that the DC penalty is back.
I understand that survivors shouldn't be able to tailor their perks to the killer chosen, but they should get the option to bounce if the killer can see what the survivors have.
Either both sides get the opportunity to bounce without penalty or neither should. Otherwise the system is unfair inherently.
Killers get to leave without penalty if they don't like the look of the lobby. Survivors do not get that option. So long as that's the case, you will get DC's.
@Peanits
I have the outmost respect for you, and I know you aren’t trying to pick sides.
However, it is not the same.
I’ve had killer’s literally bring a mori into the match and use the dirtiest tactics simply because they were “trying to get back at me”.
I just play like normal because anyone can slot a mori but because when they have made it very clear why they brought it in post chat, I can’t exactly agree that it is the same as a killer simply dodging a lobby.
I got on last night on xbox trying to do survivor challenges and took almost an hour to play one match. I rarely bring items and just use what I find but between the errors, lobby dodges and dcs during the match loading it literally took 6 or 7 tries for me to get into a match. This match went like this for me. first one hooked, tunneled, mori, gg. Almost an hour waiting for 2 mins of game time lol
Add-on rarity, offering rarity. Player name. No info on the specific killer chosen. If you see an iri add-on or iri offering, you have the option to dip, just like the killer can with multiple toolboxes or a key.
Yeah it's a viscous circle
With the actual matchmaking system if you are in a lobby and the killer leaves you find another one in less than 10secs
"Killers can leave if there's a survivor that has harassed them in the past."
Yet a survivor can't leave should there be a killer that has harassed them in the past. That's by definition picking favorites. Why not remove names completely? There's really no need for anyone to see that sort of thing. Just have it as the character's name. Meg Thomas, Dwight Fairfield, Claudette Morel, Jake Park, etc.
Exactly what you said. I won't even say it is that BHVR is trying to play favorites, but to try to claim that these things are the same is either missing the obvious or gaslighting.
Survivors leaving mid match ruins the game for everyone. A killer leaving at the lobby just means that the survivors will have to wait a few more seconds/minutes. These two things are not the same.....
Survivors probably wouldn't DC as much if they knew the name of the killer.
I have had countless killers dodge me for having 2500 hours. I had to make my profile naked because if I had a private profile I would get dodged. So I hid my hours and just showed my game titles. Problem is survivors get harassed by killers. I had a stream snipers keep trying to snipe my lobbies bringing a Mori each time. After the 3rd time I DCed in loading screen because he was just targeting me and harassing me but apparently stream sniping isn't bannable. What I am saying if killers can see my character and load out but they SHOULDN'T get to see my name. If they get to see my name and look at my profile, I should be able to see theirs and look at theirs. Then that way if I see someone that has harassed me in the past I can dodge them just as much as someone else can dodge me because I looped them to #########.
Maybe not as much... But it wouldn't take a huge portion out of the d/c's