We Need Secondary Objectives
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Behavior has made it very clear that new secondary objectives are not coming anytime soon; and that touching Gen speed is not something they want to do.
The main issue with this is that a killer lacks enough time to properly hunt survivors. However, increasing generator times is not the only way to increase a killer’s effective time in a match.
So I’d like to propose some new possible effects for one of our current secondary objectives: Totems. In hopes of reducing time wasted by the killer and give survivors a worthwhile secondary objective.
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- The killer receives a +7% speed bonus to the “Picking-Up, Dropping, Hooking, and Generator Damaging actions” per remaining Totem (max 35%)
- The killer also receives a 10% cool-down reduction “on basic attacks that downed the survivor” per remaining Totem (max 50%)
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Many dislike mechanics that directly affect a survivor’s ability to play (e.g. Dying Light, Thanatophobia, Old Ruin, etc..). So rather than nerf the survivor’s speed, let’s buff the killer’s ability to time manage.
I would like to note that Hexes would be indirectly nerfed from these changes. However, that does not mean they can’t be buffed during or after the fact.
Ultimately, the overall health of the game should take priority over a few already niche perks being nerfed.
And yes, maps are a larger problem, but map adjusted will take months or years to finish.
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Edit: [Made additions to text for clarity]
Edit 2: [This wouldn’t be the last update of DBD, Hexes and maps can still be adjusted, relax]
Edit 3: [Made adjustments based on feedback]
Comments
Why did nobody even comment on this post this is an awesome idea
Not only it encourages a second objective to reduce gen times, it also rewards survivors for map awareness and killers for applying so much pressure that survivors cant even stop to cleanse them
The only problem I see is that it would make the winning side to have less of a chance of recovering. A killer who has most of their totems lit up due to what I mention before would have an easier time crushing their opponents while a survivor team who is doing gens fast can hinder the killer's ability by a lot abd make a comeback harder
Great idea
What this does is make survivors not want to do totems. If doing each one makes the killer stronger you are given them the power to not allow it to happen.
The thing about a second objective is it should want to be done by survivor as it slows the game down. Every action survivors do apart from gens is a slight slow down of the game. Chests, totems, healing.
The other issue I see is swf v solo. SWF can call out where they saw totems so they can leave them all bar hex ones and do them before popping the last gen. Also if NOED activatesd they can coordinate checking those spots to break it.
I do like the idea, but I see them as making these secondary objectives tied to a new killer's power such as RBT boxes, plague's fountains or Freddy's clocks.
@twistedmonkey
You're making a fundamental misunderstanding:
It’s per totem that’s not cleansed, just like Thrill of the Hunt.
Having totems buff killers is a really nice idea. NOED at the moment, whether you like that perk or not, is a necessary evil since it's pretty much the only reason for survivors to do totems.
Personally, I think one good way to achieve balance in this game is too balance maps better, since smaller maps means killers can apply more map pressure, and more mindgameable loops means killers have a fair chance of downing survivors fast enough to keep up with the fast gen times. But I guess it would also be nice if they somehow managed to make dull totems more meaningful.
Ah I see it now thanks.
I still don't think its a great idea.
When you have perks which need totems to last until end game you dont want too make survivors hunt them too much when running certain perks or its instantly nerfing devour hope and NOED along with inner strength as survivor will want to do all they see and actively look for them or use perks to find them.
50% cooldown on hits is also way too strong. It's like the old machine gun build and why that was nerfed long ago.
@twistedmonkey
Glad you understand, however on your points:
The focus of these changes is to entice survivors to do totems to afford the killer more time. As well as reduce the time the killer spends on things like animations.
Hex perks are always gonna be inherently risky to use, but the betterment of the game should not be stopped because of a handful of perks.
Also, the cool-down is only on hits that downed the survivor. So something that would not, in most cases, affect chases.
I think this is a really good but very minor change to nullifying the negatives of being animation locked as killer.
While I don't dislike the idea, @twistedmonkey raised several issues. I'd add the pallet break bonus would be horrendous for survivors. Imagine a killer running Brutal Strength with all the totems still up. They'd shred pallets like they were nothing.
@thrawn3054
Many of his issues were misunderstandings.
So after reading our comments, do you still feel the same way?
Only one post was a misunderstanding which was given them power over the power the present by doing them. But the point still stand over the swf v solo scenario. Anything which gives the killer power like this is inherently stronger with comms.
The others such as nerfs to devour and NOED for example stand as these could be taken out quicker as survivors now have a need to do them.
I dont see it changing much in early game as it is now someone sees a totem and destroys it then jumps onto a gen. The issue is about pressure with slower killers for some players by getting to gens before they feel they can pop.
Personally the devs and what others have said for a long time regarding wanting to make maps smaller overall is the right action.
The first post was a misunderstanding. The points raised about it weakening hex totems and harming inner strength users weren't.
@twistedmonkey
Your first post was a large misunderstanding, and the latter half of your second post about the basic attack cool-down was as well.
And I want to make a point: this isn’t meant to fix everything.
The main issue with Gen speed and pressure is that most of the maps are too large. Yes, I agree.
However map changes are going to take several months or years to complete. This is something that could be implemented much sooner and help alongside it.
@thrawn3054
I just addressed this in my most recent comment.
I wish they would do real secondary objectives. Totems should be left as optional activities because if totems become essentially mandatory or more incentivised than what they are now hex perks will become very weak
I don't disagree that there needs to be a secondary objective. I just think totems are not the way to go about it.
@Sonicslinger
I edited the post to help address this, but:
This would not be DBD’s last update
Hexes can be buffed, maybe in the same patch.
But this would better the game overall, a few already niche perks shouldn’t hold that back.
Well you can't blame one for misunderstandings as you didn't define how they all worked initially and it was left to interpretation.
The attack cooldown then doesn't really do anything for the killer.
As I said I feel it's nerf to things which are not needed for very little benefit as lets be honest with what you gain doesn't warrant doing them initially before 3 gens which means you need to be lucky with spawn close to you and what gens are left so it doesn't give you any more pressure than there is now front the start.
Overall I don't see trying to force survivors to do these as a healthy change as it either removes more choices from the game or makes them rush gens even faster which just makes matches even less diverse in loadouts and how they play out.
Yes maps will take time to be fixed but making a change which doesn't really help killers with early game pressure who dont have it doesn't warrant putting the time in to work on it imo.
I myself believe this to be a very healthy change if implemented, however the numbers i believe would need tweaking for perks that combine with these changes would create a ridiculous power spike.
The Perks:
Brutal Strength +20% to destroy action speed(generators and pallets)
Fire Up 4% stack-able buff to many actions listed
It would also make perks like Thrill, and Small game see much more use however and possibly create a ruin scenario for playtime to which is not something the devs want.
So in order to compensate what do you believe should happen? If anything the cleansing speed for totems would be REDUCED not increased most likely, to about 10s in order to lower the strengths as fast as reasonably possible
The above is your suggested changes however i myself fear that it would create much to large of a power vacuum on good killer players or those who constantly chase for it makes many time consuming things very little, and the big one being the time needed to break a pallet for with brutal again you get roughly a 50% increase to your breaking speed thus making pallets almost worthless if theres not another being 2s away, so heres what i believe the numbers would need to be instead along with some changes to what they effect;
These numbers to me are much more reasonable but still provide a strong buff to things that just hinder the killer in the animation sense(also prevents flashlight stuns in a way), but not overly powerful to where key defensive things like Pallets are not just non existent(in all honesty 10% might be changed to 5%) this will provide a want to require totems and sense of need and make it slightly easier to do so and if you do not it will punish you in a fair but strong way. This also will theoretically provide more time for the killer to down a survivor before 3 gens are popped for hopefully some are cleansing totems to which brings me to one final change:
Much better
Sorry for the shameless plug, but if we are talking about totems for a secondary objective, I put an idea here. I just want it to get more attention.
@Waffleyumboy
I’ve made some adjustments.
@Chaoxide
I have made adjustments to my post according to feedback I’ve received.
Glad to see you've made the changes, i still believe the totems would need to be decreased slightly in time for testing at least to see how impactful the changes are. It would still increase the need to do totems but also not make them too long too do while providing needed comfort times for gens to not be rushed.
@not_Queen @Peanits What are some thoughts on this from more prominent figures in the community?
@Chaoxide @Peanits @not_Queen
It’s definitely some that could be looked at, but yeah, I’d like some Behavior feedback.
@bilaueta
Luckily destroying totems isn’t too difficult to do while remaining stealthy.
But yeah, I’d sure love some input from someone like @Almo.
It works both ways. If they don't do totems then hexs can stay active. If they do choose to cleans totems then killer gets buffed. I like the idea. Maybe even change it to buff may vary from killer to killer. Keeping things " balanced" ya know. Not making top teir killers op but picking up the low tier ones :p yes?
It might be ok change, bu totems CANNOT become the secondary objective. This would make hex perks completely worthless no matter how much you buff them.
We need ANOTHER secondary objective. Unfortunately devs dont really want to do that, at least not yet.
@Kay_Kazuto
Well these are buffs for uncleansed totems, but thank you.
*noticed this in Google feed*
Y E S
What You use haunted grounds? You would have to cleanse it and be a 1 hit or the killer gets speed. That I'd not fair.
Ah! Still good. Killer starts w a buff and you have to clean totems to Nerf them, gacha! ( Hopefully ) still like it.
I think a better idea might be to require a secondary objective to open the exit gates. Like start all 5 generators, and earn enough "Hope Points" to power the exit gates. Let hope literally power the exit. You could get hope points for doing things like unhooking survivors, spending time in the basement, escaping chases, cleansing totems and getting protection hits. The fewer survivors alive, the quicker the hope bar fills. So escaping from the killer might earn 10 points if there are 4 survivors, 15 if there are 3, 20 if there are 2, and 25 if there is 1.
@profaned
You found this in your Google feed?
no. if the killer is actually good and not like the whining babies who expect to get a 4k without any effort, it would be impossible to escape. a good killer can easily apply pressure and make it hard to get gens done, so if the survivors would have to do a second objective too it would be just too difficult and possibly impossible
Slow down a trial by requiring some gens to need gas. Could be random or based on repair speed or skill check fails or whatever. Having to go find gas cans, maybe spawning in lockers would be cool, would slow things up nicely without being too burdensome.
@wispy6
As I have said, there can be adjustments to Hexes in the same patch or patches afterwards, if needed.
@cynichism
I put it at the top for a reason.
Behavior has stated that new secondary objectives are a long way out. Instead they want to focus on the ones we already have, which is the whole point of this post.
On mobile google it provides updates on whatever I have interest in
I do like seeing what the dbd community makes up, quite fun
@KingFrost
Behavior says that new objectives are a long way out, and that they want to focus on the current ones; like totems.
Otherwise there are plenty of possible new objectives.
@Kay_Kazuto
Glad to hear it.
Still like the idea of this, creates a reason for the totems outside BP
I love the OP idea.
@profaned
Oh that sounds nice. Is there anything here you think should change or be adjusted?
Does the game need them? Yes
Will BHVR implement them? No
Gotta focus on those sweet sweet cosmetics baby, bug fixes and actual balance changes, pfff please...
@Tro
Thanks. Do you have any critiques or suggestions?
How about they just make destroying totems a requirement before escaping?
@Rie
Or optimization.
@Tro
That could be an option, but it might cause problems because of the varying difference of totem visibility.
The whole idea for totems beeing viable secondary objective is just flawed. You see a totem, you break it - game prolonged by 20 seconds... Wow... thats helpful... not...
I like perks like inner strength, really creative, usefull and point survivors in good direction. But saying that totems are viable distraction is just crazy, not in game where it takes 4 minutes to escape.
Btw: Look at this. Noed is here from the very begining, as Hex for the most time. Everyone knows about it, devs even increased points for totems to 1000 for dull, this is some crazy ######### and most survivors still don't do them. It just shows that most of community doesn't really understand the very basics of this game. And yet devs still balance it arround r15...