twistedmonkey
twistedmonkey
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/544985#Comment_544985
We shouldn’t make balance choices on the premise of “some people can’t counter X” balance choices have to be made while thinking about good players.
@OP I like the idea. :)
DBD is balanced around the majority of players as they are all mixed in 15 levels, it is how it is and I can't we that changing anytime soon so you have to think that way right or wrong.
MoM was overly strong and got nerfed for good reason and now you think buffing it especially for SWF is ok? They say they want to close the gap between them and solo not make it wider.
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There have been a few ideas adden from feedback.
What you have to think about is the vast majority of ideas probably aren't that good or won't work in the game.
They can't add everything people suggest as they have their own vision.
The forums are a place to discuss certain things about the game not to just have ideas implemented.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/544982#Comment_544982
It isn’t hard to counter flashlights.
Where did I say it was?
You do have to think about the normal players that aren't that good at countering them though, being next to an object is one thing but a good survivor will get a lot of killer in the open before they have a chance to look away from it.
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Personally I dont like this idea as this gives swf even more incentives to use flashlights as they don't have to Injure themselves to get the use of MoM.
All SWF running MoM last second lobby switching to bring flashlights could very well happen.
I don't like the current change but at least it makes them want to heal and takes them off gens longer.
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Tbh this should be an easy fix and one they should have implemented long ago.
SWF should be matched off the best ranked player to try and stop a 3k hour survivor versing a 50h killer.
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Insta heals when versing a full swf is one if not thee most unbalanced thing they can use in a match if they are good.
Mori is used to combat this so why not give them some counter play.
For Insta heals make them not work in the terror radious.
For Mori's they don't work if the survivor has been hooked within 60 seconds like the DS timer so it's not tunnel, down and mori unless you hook another survivor first then that timer is removed.
The survivor can also remove the mori until after the last hook by healing up, this is to encourage healing more and makes them maybe want to use that Insta heal as a combat to it.
This gives killer like plague a bit of a mori buff as survivors don't want to be broken so may cleanse more as they risk being mori'd.
It gives them have some counter play and makes them strong but not OP.
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@tomikomPL said:
Nope, because there will be more annoying campers and tunnelers. Short matches usually ends because of this kind of trash and i think we shouldnt support this kind of unskilled behavior. if you want to change something change entire ranks system.
That's a very wierd statement to make.
Short matches with tunnelers and campers come about due to survivors hook rushing nothing else.
If a killer camps 3 Survivors that takes 6 minutes not including the time to down them.
@OP I agree if you kill them all quickly then in theory you should be ranked away from those players.
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Overwatch is based on two equal teams where both can have exactly what the other has and the only real difference is how well they can play. You really can't compare and fps such as that to DBD.
The problem with DBD is the rank system matches players in one huge pool seperated by 15 levels, this is why they balance around the majority and not the top 5% as a 50h players can be matched with a 5kh player.
Unless they can overhaul the system so a newer player can never be matched with a veteran they technically cant balance it your way as the majority will lose every game and then they will probably end up giving up on it.
That's the reality of the situation atm and one I don't see changing anytime soon if ever as I think the game is what it is now.
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@Jed_Olsen said:
In my first comment I was referring to people who camp to specifically cause grief you know like when there's 5 gens left 5 gateauxs brought and a wraith hook camps cloaked, that kind of thing. Your perception of my perception is completely wrong.
Well maybe you should have put what you just said in your original post instead of it saying nothing to that effect thus leaving it open to interpretation ;P.
Just a thought.
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You will always get those that just hide but that tends to say they are new and playing in the lower ranks.
Anyone in rank 13 and below should be able to play the game as hiding all game wont even allow them to get to that stage.
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@Jed_Olsen said:
Or you could just y'know leave the hook and check gens or something like that. People who camp and tunnel only do so to cause grief nothing else, its not a tactic or a play style its just a straight up dick move
Actually a lot of players do it as a strat especially if the gens are gping fast.
Your perception on why players do it is completely wrong in this instance to try and cause an argument.
There are legit cases for doing either strat as each game is different and players adapt to how the game is playing out.
If you want to see it in play watch McLean stream, he regularly patrol camps and tunnels but I guess he is just griefing and not actually playing the game he helps make simply how he wishes to.
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You do know NOED has had a few nerfs, it used to activate at end game and be unlimited, then it was on a 2 min timer and now it's a totem.
Do you know why it was changed to a totem? To give survivors another objective and to help slow the game down or risk it activating.
MoM was a broken perk as there was not counter play with most killers, while I dont think they way they changed it was the right option as it makes it not worth using it did need something done.
Instead of making a post complaining why not give some feedback on how you think it would be better changed.
My idea was to make it like more like the DS vision as an anti tunnel perk with a timer so that it has conditions after an unhook and you could only use either DS or MoM in a match as it deactivated the other.
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McLean said on stream tonight it's possible it is not broken it's the killers who are waiting for a long time the search widens and people of all ranks will be able to join in the lobby as it grabs whoever is available at the time.
Survivors won't see any long wait and will be put into the match instantly.
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One possible solution if they can't disable the perks or add-ons is to make it known in game.
The players then receive a simple ban and warning which is lifted once they they have read why they are banned and accept if they keep doing it they will be banned for longer..
Instead of simply banning make it so the players are aware first as not everyone reada the forums and once warned repeat use then starts the ban hammer but not a perma one.
This is something they should implement as it's useful for future use as well.
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They are reworking maps to remove long loops and make more shorter ones which can be mind gamed at.
It's gonna take some time though.
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It may be due to Ghostface having more than one power, crouch stealth, lean and stalk much like the pig who has traps and stealth ambush.
The others just have one power dream world or stalk in reality.
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In around 40 games playing versus him I have been exposed twice I think it's relatively easy right now.
I think many players rely too much on the heartbeat instead of using their eyes.
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The base Nurse is fine, she can be mindgamed easily it's just most dont try to break LOS for one and run in the open.
Some of her add-ons do need adjusted mostly those which have more downsides than upsides.
Good Nurses don't usually use omega blink or extra blinks as they want to keep the muscle memory when using her power so those could do with being tweaked as they can be a bit over the top.
The Nurse is one of the minority, extremely viable accross all ranks with no addons needed which is where most killer should be tbh, add-ons should give a little extra, not be needed and not be OP imo.
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/535179#Comment_535179
I think you're missing the point. A pallet stun ending a power isn't a bad thing. It's only terrible when the power has a ludicrous cooldown, which punishes you three times. You already got stunned, and the survivor received their reward for a well timed drop. They've put up a barrier, and can now choose to gain distance or get more value out of the loop. The killer has been punished by losing a hit or having their power turned off (sometimes both), and being immobilized for a short time. With cooldown characters who lose their power, that's triple the punishment. I don't see this as a balanced, fair, or logical trade.
Technically yes it should not remove the power duration but Ghostface is different from the others as he does has two powers, stealth and stalking to expose.
Stealth in theory should be something that when seen has to restart but it could do with a shorter cooldown or maybe just remove a percentage of the bar, it's just a way to sneak up on people to try and expose them or get a hit after all.
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@TheBean said:
@twistedmonkey you see I've felt that same way cause of the way the game was. Two gens needed to be done.
Even when the EGC came out.. I still had that feeling of doing 2 gens first.
However having thinking about it and play it more.... that feeling is gone. I dont need to work on gens anymore for a possible hatch escape anymore.
The main problem is the newer players due to how the game is, they may just be scared and hide and why it should change the more you play imo.
Having a goal is certainly needed as it creates a sense of urgency and more strategic play or it's just farming for points and waiting for the hatch as you are doing which isn't the most fun way and it can skew the stats for the kill/escape ratio.
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In my head i still want to get the 2 gens done but that may change over time.
The hatch spawning well that's just to stop a stale mate and the game going on for a silly amount of time which makes sense but still can be annoying for a killer in that scenario.
Is the issue the hatch or is it the fact that a killer who can kill all before 2 gens are done is being matched with the survivors they are against? This can be equally hard to gage up as we're the survivors good or just playing around throwing themselves at the killer?
In theory that killer should simply be pushed away from those survivors so they aren't matched together so that hatch scenario becomes less the norm.
By doing this they could make it so each side plays the game and there is more incentive to do gens and then maybe they can put the hatch back to the way it was of needing 2 gens to spawn the hatch the higher you rank up. Then if the lone survivor doesn't complete a certain amount of progress on the gens over a set time if more then 3 are left they get shown to the killer and if the survivor can evade well the hatch can spawn after so long to end the game quicker, sort of like McLeans idea of the past for the end game.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533736#Comment_533736
@twistedmonkey Asymmetry has nothing to do with strength.
For example Spy Party is an Asymmetrical game that is a 1v1, so for the game to be balanced you would expect an average winrate of 50/50.
Remember, a balanced game is just a game where all roles have equal odds of winning. Those odds are how you determine a roles strength, we call nurse strong because she is good at achieving her wincon and we call freddy weak because he is bad at achieving his wincon.
This is why I don't get why the devs want a 2k average. Because if you compare the different sides wincons (escape vs kill everyone) it should be clear that a 2k average would mean that the game need to be incredibly swingy in order for it to be balanced.
I've found that instead having a 30% escape rate produces the most interesting results in terms of a kill curve. Note that in order for this to be balanced the 4k rate would ALSO only be 30%, so not a free 4k or anything.
Anyways the reason why I say 30% specifically is that you can take a 50/50 winrate at the endgame (or in other words the odds of a 3k are the same as the odds of a 4k) given a 3k and work backwards from there in order to get a 30% overall winrate. What that means is that the game can remain perfectly balanced even if someone dies, for example in the event that the Killer tunnels.
Technically it is as it's about the sides not being be equal, one side being stronger is just one way of them not being equal and also why some games specifically use the term and also why the players jump onto it for this game believing it should be that way.
Balance is extremely hard to get in any game unless both sides are equal and players of equal skill are matched together like the most competative fps/moba/rts games do.
When it comes to any game where it's 1 v many balance becomes so much harder to achieve and why if you look at asymmetrical games there are always complaints about one side being OP.
30% may sound good on paper but who want to play a game where your chances of dying are roughly 1 in 4 games? As I said the games that have treid this haven't done too well and since DBD is the only one to keep any sustainable userbase maybe in part that is due to the 2 die 2 escape vision.
For myself the 2 die 2 escape isnt the issue, the issue is that game balances over all the ranks and all the players can be in any rank no matter their skill level and the whole userbase is plunged into one big statistic and reset each month.
When you see a 2k hour player matched with a 50 hour player then that is more of an issue and why the new objectives we have asked for probably haven't been implemented.
My idea to fix this was that the matchmaking needs to stop using the rank system and use more stats outside of it, the rank system then gets changed to a simple ladder reward system so even if you are on lvl 15 of it you get matched with players around your own skill level rather than where you are artificially sitting due to a number which is exploitable next to your name.
There is no reason a killer who can 4k most games should go agaisnt those who escape less than 25% or for survivors who escape over 80% should verse a killer who averages 1 or 2k max.
This also means they can start to look at balancing seperate matchmaking areas. Say it had 5 tiers like bronze, silver, gold, diamond and platinum. Each one can then be balanced individually for the 2k scenario and once you are in a bracket you can't derank out for at least the first 50 games so it can get your actual mmr.
This may have other affects such as longer queue times in some areas which would need looked at, the other aspect is it may become more competative creating even more toxicity.
Right now what they can change is so that swf play where the highest ranked player is situated not the lowest or an average between them.
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@sorrowen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533700#Comment_533700
Well then they shouldn't call their game asymmetrical its loosely asymmetrical at this point. Weak killers only further this point with maybe 4 killers remotely viable besides maybe Hag
Why not? Asymmetrical just means the two sides are not of equal strength in essense which is true in this game but it's dependant on each players skill and knowledge as it's a game.
The finer points are up to interpretation but not all asymmetrical games have to follow the 1 is so much stronger than those they verse so it's a massacre, it's just what some people think it should be.
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Map pressure
Ability to down quickly and close down loops.
Bu the players who is in control is the biggest factor versus who they are against.
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@sorrowen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533662#Comment_533662
The devs say that is balance but I think the fatality rate should be very high however the leveling and all wouldn't support that. This genre the killer should be a oppressive force of nature not a joke.
But a 2 die 2 escape is what the devs want for the game so to say the killer should be an oppressive force of nature goes against their vision.
The genre is just a 4 v 1 nothing states the 1 has to be an overpowering that just what some people beleive it should be.
The whole game needs a set amount of escapes for pips for one or it would create inconsitences in the matchmaking as it has been tried by making it harder and one side finds the queues too long at red ranks.
The problem comes down to what players want versus what the game is and what the devs want, it's a game after all and the devs want it to be fun for all players.
Maybe what some of the players seem to want is not what is best for the actual game afterall. Other games have came out and tried the other way and where are they now? DBD is still going strong 3 years later so they are obviously doing something right which the vast majority like.
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Maybe just make DS deactivate if another survivor is hooked within the 60 seconds but only of the survivor is not downed if they are the timer is stopped instead.
Then it's a true anti tunnel perk.
I do think DS should also should not activate when they have BT on them once the egc is active for end game purposes.
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@Dbdsaltykiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532142#Comment_532142
Dude your total out of step out of the game. Im killer main no problem with the ghostface changes but i'll have fun in mean time. But saying we should be satisfied with 2 kills is ridiculous. 3 kills is normally a black pip at red ranks. I've depipped with a 4 k at red ranks. The games changed for killer only legion can comfortably pip with 2k at red ranks. You need to understand the fundimentals at killer red ranks before saying such a blinkered survivor main opion.
That's a problem with the emblem system then as 2 kill 2 escape is what the devs consider balanced.
The problem is you have to not do too well in any rank or you won't pip as killing quickly usually means a depip which is really silly.
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@KaoMinerva said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532667#Comment_532667
They count DC as a kill for God's sake LOL
They have stated many times that dc's are not counted @Peanits should be able to confirm this for you again.
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Many of us said this would happen when the change was first talked about.
We were laughed at when we said imagine at end game if you have someone hooked, they get saved with BT you hit and manage to down them and they have DS ready, that's a huge amount of map coverage the can do.
Your only real option if you can is to eat as many DS as you can before that point as there is no way around it at that late stage.
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What it is proof of is they dont just listen to the minute portion of the userbase who post on the forums who tend to overreact to everthing, the changes made are very slight and dont impact the buffs they originally gave him.
The fact they listened to those on the PTB and did buff him shows more than these small changes ever did.
So what it does actually show is they take feedback from those that played in the PTB and also looked at the stats of how things were working out.
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It's part of being on this forum and overreacting with changes and we can all fall foul to it at times so don't worry.
It takes a much bigger person to say what you did once they realise it's not as bad as they first thought so I hope you get many upvotes for it and others take a page out of your book.
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@AetherBytes said:
@ad19970 it triggers at the same distance that the entity blocker appears for the killer.
To be honest that would only serve to stop those extremely close chase escapes as those that sit at the gate would just adjust and leave a second earlier so as not to get affected.
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@Tsulan said:
@all the people that downvoted my hatch removal proposal. Is there a similar mechanic for killers that I didn't knew? One that rewards utterly bad killers with 7000bp?
But survivors deserve that escape, right? Like when one of the last 2 survivors doesn't do anything but search for the hatch and then camp it.
Well there has always been camping, NOED, Rancor and of course the egc timer they can all reward a sub par killer at the end.
Yes Noed can be destroyed and rancor you need to find them but its rng if the survivors are good much like the hatch.
When it comes to the hatch. Would you rather spend 30 mins trying to find a survivor who is trying to do gens?
Too many are hung up on this free escape where it's simply a mechanic to end a game quicker and also was designed with solo players in mind as so you aren't being punished for who you are matches with.
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Play
Apart from ping dodging due to any legit mechanic in the game shouldn't be allowed from either side.
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What really ruins the game is the constant whining about every single thing someone doesn't like on either side.
The game is doing really well and has been growing.
The forums are a very tiny minority of the userbase which tends to say the vast majority don't care, just play and enjoy it.
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@darktrix said:
Said only to get a reaction from you out of spite, and it worked.
This^
Looks like you gave them what they wanted, they could be reading this forum laughing now as it worked.
In all honesty it was just bad luck for you that the hatch spawned close, would you write the same if it spawned next to yourself? Its rng and actually is more in favour of the killer than it ever used to be with the closing mechanic.
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Don't let them win as they do it to get a reaction nothing else and stopping your enjoyment is what they desire.
It's just a bunch of sad individuals who can't play a game without trying to create drama, just think most of them are probably shy and wouldn't say boo to anyone in real life and if they do try to act like this they will soon realise they aren't as big as they think they are.
Close the end game chat for a while and enjoy playing how you want too it's a game nothing more.
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Personally I go through all my chars and use what BP offerings which grant bloodpoints in all catagories and then go onto single objective ones once they have run out.
I've been playing survivor more this event as killer queue is incredibly long for me which could be due to them earning more per game.
I just play as normal unless I see the others are farming, I will always give myself up to be sacrificed to a killer who wants to farm as I feel it's just nice to give something back but most of them won't and take me to the exit.
No matter how someone plays I always say GG at the end as it's just a game why people get so upset over dying in a game I dont understand.
I run WGLF for the extra points so if I escape so be it if not I got more points by getting stacks anyway.
Anything the other side uses which is part of the game to win is fair game imo, I don't let players who tbag or try to bait get to me as again it's just a game.
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@sonic4life86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/528787#Comment_528787
What are you talking about you guys have like 30 pallets per map window looping 16 perks vs the killers 4 perks you have a lot more resource than like killers lol
Well around half of that actually there is a min max allowed which is rng and no where near your numbers.
Each character also only has 4 perks this 16 myth is just made up to try and make a false argument in reality.
Looping while annoying is what the game has been slow designed around for around 2 years now, this is why more perks for tracking, aura and helping with loops came about, most of these would need reworked if looping went altogether.
originally people asked for more stealth play but again it's not what most actually wanted which is evident when they verse a ninja Claudette and complain.
All this shows is the players really don't know what they as mechanics but they do want to kill or to escape to be easier.
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There is a huge difference between a 3 gen strat and using that option to grief other players.
If anyone thinks in the whole 25 minutes of this going on it is ok then they must also have been ok with survivors that refused to leave wanting to get totems, those who used to stay behind to sabo when you got points, just staying in the game in general as you know it's fun to stealth around.
Everything has been fixed in the above and for a reason, this game lasted over 30 minutes, in all honesty how can anyone defend this and say its a strat when there were 2 people injured and the doc wouldn't even chase, down and hook one.
They could have easily done it and went back to the gens and stopped one of the survivors and at the most one maybe would have escaped.
You can't ask for things to be fair and want people banned for things and then defend scummy behaviour such as this.
No matter what anyone says it is holding the game hostage as they chose not to comit to a chase and hook, just like the old hatch scenario when a survivor could be banned for holding it hostage as they chose not to do a gen while the killer was at the hatch.
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The reason they aren't and haven't as yet is due to over 50% of queues having solo players in them.
Swf is only really strong in a try hard group of 4 or 3 which the isn't really the norm.
The problem is if they balance around swf then a large portion of the userbase is basically nerfed and adding all the information needed can never happen as it removes a lot of the suspense solo players enjoy.
Adding icons to see if someone is in a chase, totems etc won't do anything to combat on the fly Information swf have as even those two things swf can say where they are which an simple icon doesn't saving lots of time hunting or moving due to a heartbeat.
Then there is the pallets, how do you combat solo v swf when it comes to "shack pallet has been used" for example, "dead zone over by the main house".
Saving, how to give solo the same info where someone is going in and can see the killer and then get someone to try and distract them to open up the save.
I'm opening the door near the (state area on map), I'm running towards it can you take a hit, yeah sure.
Swf isnt just strong because they know who is in a chase, where totems are etc they are strong because they can react to all the Information as it changes for every aspect which notifications simply can never give.
It's the harsh reality of comms usage in the game.
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The 3 month dlc release time frame has certainly led to quantity over quality.
They have lost a bit of the spark which led to the creation of killers that were fun, simple and deadly in the right hands.
The new idea seems to be about giving killers more than one power and making things more interactive, this is evident with Ghostface, Freddy, the plague and legion as each of their powers need survivors to so something after being hit or to remove it.
The thing that worries me most about making them like above is that it's adding a new objective via a killer so adding an overall new objective seems less likely as it gets a lot harder to balance.
Too many aura and second chance perks, notifications and Insta down for myself is what makes the game mundane, each dlc a perk arrives which tried to fix a problem with the core mechanics but ends up being a band aid fixes.
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I cant see how as its for Xbox subscribers and it would mean crossplay which isnt in the game.
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They did present videos of Ghostface gameplay, they also showed videos of when discussing the map reworks and showed us new tiles and the possible 4 interations coming along with overviews in pictures.
I thought the Stream was ok as for an anniverary stream, I mean I obviously knew they would talk about the game and how far it has come, that should have been a given.
There rank rework is not something they have atm but they are working on it, they probably dont have anything to show as its still in cncept form and this community jump on anything so I wouldnt want them to reveal possibilities.
I think you are nit picking just for the sake of it tbh.
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Less long loops, No more abusable windows sounds good to me.
More short loops and pallets which can be mind gamed also sound good.
I am a bit scepticle about the amount of pallets with the best way to combat pallets still being via certain perks, I also hope they have more LOS breakers for mind gaming at them for killer and I also prefer to try and lose the killer rather then play ring around the roses until downed when playing survivor.
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They did, they said when dedicated servers come they will be able to do a lot more to combat it giving community managers more tools, they said those who disconnect too frequently will be treated in a special way.
https://youtu.be/JyWcUp8RcSE?t=2980If the time stamp doesnt work it starts at around 49m40s
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Leave McCote alone, he seems like a cool guy and handles all the crap thrown at him extremely well.
He is also our goto meme dev.
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It depends on what one classes as a win.
I think that's the problem with the emblems as they are, they punish good play and can keep those who just want kills fast in the lower ranks.
It's the same scenario for survivor of course.
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@Luigifan64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/501299#Comment_501299
That doesn't make it any better, if something is bad for the community the worst possible thing someone can do is stand idly by and say, "welp guess I better let them just do it because they'd do it anyway".
Do you honestly think you will stop them?
Who decides what is best for the community? It seems just as many are for it than against it on here and other threads.
I am one who will never buy a battle pass but I also would never pay money for skins.
Even so I don't disagree with them making them earnable in game or if someone can buy a boost for them, it's a virtual look and doesnt impact the gameplay, if someone has the incline to buy it so be it, it makes no difference to my enjoyment of the game.
You also have to think of the employees, before the store we got very little cosmetics, they probably hired more people to make them hence the price tags, this could also be a way to keep them in a job as who knows the store sales could be slowing down.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
@twistedmonkey I really hope they don't give him away for free lol
It would be fine if there was a survivor but if they just gave ghost away the game would become unplayable from queue imbalance.
Yeah oops I didn't think of that lol.
It would be good luck trying to play killer for the next week or so!