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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036982#Comment_4036982
I was mostly just having fun 😏
However in seriousness, what you define as sub standard is up to you. However to assume someone will play a certain way and avoid said player is literally prejudice...
- Does having a Distortion or Lightweight immediately mean a Survivor will rat?
- Does having a sabotage bulld, or a boon build, or a plunderer build, or an invocation build mean the player is auto throwing?
- Does having an adept mean this player is a liability who is gonna throw the game?
You can make assumptions about this player, but that's all they are, assumptions... and even if you're right... why does that stop you from playing the game to the best of your ability? If anything, this is an opportunity to test yourself, and work on how you can play better.
Outside of my playful dig, it's not inaccurate to say avoiding a player because they MIGHT do something that hinders your chances of victory is gatekeeping the game at best, and cowardice at worst.
Legit if I was to see a David adept, I would straight up think "Alright David, let's go, we're getting you that adept". That to me is what a gamer should be striving to do.
I think that the reason why perks load out should be seen only after loading in match. I used sole survivor and hatch offering, but wasn’t afraid asking for killer attention to give team some time.
I just had many situations where stay alone in a trial. And for instance, killer camping gates. Sole survivor also help in 2 vs 1 scenarios, and can dodge some aura read for reset. Plus bonus for faster opening when it’s really needed.I wouldn’t try to dodge every build I don’t like, but seeing 3 people with some altruistic or meme builds isn’t my choice. I had too many situations where such trios (or duos) trade teammates without regret in sake of personal fun. Only to contribute for killer win rate later
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036975#Comment_4036975
I think its more so people want to make it hard on the tunnel out even more then it is.
Because only time I see perk is in matches where hard tunneling occurs but I would think it would be more effective to do slowdown like most do unless they are scared about the tunnel being healed up.
(ps. not saying this perk is used a lot, but I've noticed only being used in hard tunnel matches and it harder for solo q to heal up the tunnel out then a swf hence my post about changing it)I think its more so people want to make it hard on the tunnel out even more then it is.
Like tunnel is macro based play. If you use perks that solely focus on your target you get zero benefits for pressure later. I mean, it makes sense if you struggle with first kill, but if you actually tunnel for effectiveness…
You will have fast kill (huge maybe), but as soon as tunneled person wouldn’t be afraid of being injured and have DS killer gonna lose. Leverage do nothing “to help” for tunneling, if you control hook from the start. And also do nothing, if other survs do gens.
It’s like putting this in loadout and hoping you would be able find this person few seconds after unhook not healed or ready to loop, while his teammates gonna do anything except gens. So mistake after mistake…
It’s not even effective. So I’m confused.
I used anti heal perks myself, but their whole purpose is for snowball and leaving target after injure. Not to tunnel -
Full sabo/flashlight in solo q
Just nuh
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Using Leverage for hard tunnelling when it works more effectively as slowdown is truly something
When as actual hard tunneller, you have to trade hook and hit through BT since it takes 15 sec now.
While other people return to gens because you don't have info and pressure. So instead of choosing slowdown on them you choose pressure person who is already in weakened state just to save, say few seconds.
I don't understand it. Like people fr finding this an effective strat?
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@httpain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036860#Comment_4036860
Usually these logs are in the corner of the map, so survivor is guaranteed to get zoned and hit after some time wasted.
I'd rather prefer their spawn spots adjusted, so they don't chain into other strong pallets/windows, rather than removing them.But that's the point. It's on the edge of the map.
You can’t play this wrong. It's a window so it's not wasteful resource. It's on the edge of the map, so killer have big disadvantage downing survivor in corner, and it waste much more time than average z tile or corner fillers.
It shouldn't exist there. Corner tiles should be unsafe and desperate because you already wasting a lot of killer time bringing them there.
Would be more meaningful to place them in triangle between pale rose, boat and docs instead of some jungle gym if you want to keep uniqueness.. Usually there are 3 gen having a tendency to be spawned and based on my experience after one pallet dropped there are a really huge dead zone.
This log also have RNG be spawned beside docs, so with some lithe and +1 pallet you can make it infinite. Because you can connect this window to filler and another window without lithe, with it it's free W -
@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036882#Comment_4036882
I feel like all these killers have the same issue, there skill floor is too low or non exisitent
- V1 skull merchant, the legendary chess player that could make a match time out in a hour by just patrolling her gens
- The ghoul gets a unavoidable first hit, extremely easy to pick up and has very short cooldowns compared to others in roster easy to play no matter the skill level of the player.
- Krause came out and matches where basically easy wins for her, spit on someone, down them in headform rinse and repeat until dead (all though personally i feel like her issue is she was in the anti tunnel PTB everyone said she was too weak because that ptb had them changes so she got unneeded buffs out of the ptb)
Compare this like other newer killers like spring trap, he has good map control, a good power that can deny flash saves, undetectable out of the doors and decent ad ons (one that comes to mid is seeing gen progress in doors) but you cant just play him with your brain turned off like the others above.I won’t deny their designs problematics. But their main issue in their essence. For me the continuous hate speech for them that only leads to thrown numbers is meaningless.
Skull Merchants would be more meaningful if it would be more advanced gen RNG principle and it would be keeped in mind that 3 gen is a way to play and can be a macro strategy.
Ghoul would be more meaningful if this game had vertical gameplay.Krasue just a mix of other killers with easy concept in mind. But she took the most problematic stuff, aka bounce projectile that was forced to be auto aim cause of broken collisions (missed skill expression), absolutely hilarious hit box and dash as M1 (missed skill expression), pathetic synergy between two forms (probably the only thing that makes her skill related) and scamper. Yet zero usefulness in kit for dodging protective hits and major cooperation, which is the most frustrating part of gameplay. So, she can’t compete well against high level of play.
SM and Ghoul had potential of leading to release of new innovative mechanics in DBD. But broken base of the game handicapped devs.
P.S. I don't enjoy Springtrap either. For me he is just a vanilla version of all this downgraded design concept, which helped him to avoid hate treatment. He is one of the most unsatisfied character to go as and against for me. (yet pls, this is personal opinion, I don't despise choice of people who play on him And tolerate every killer main even if I dislike character)
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All killers here beside Ghoul need perks for buying more time in match. Slowdown. For chase you have to learn and a lot, maybe trying add-ons that helps with utilizing power in chase more effectively.
Maybe you can try Coup on Wraith. Bamboozle on Legion and Ghoul. If you know how use power for bodyblock brutal strength is more preferable on Ghohl, he is a dash killer that can zone.
For Nemesis he simply ask for slowdown for going to tier 3 faster -
I don’t have any problems towards ghoul except two add-ons and free hit scan. Oh. And bounce logic with his animations. But that's all about QoL and only addons asking for nerf.
I feel people just asking SM treatment for him. Or Krasue one, just make this killer forgotten enough because their presence apply some psychic damage to unprepared minds. Too much at this point already.
Instead of nerfs he need some skill expression in his mechanic. You don’t make killer “harder” just by messing with numbers, it’s called design degradation. -
Feel dissapointed I missed Lights Out. Know it was problematic in few aspects, but I don’t mind game turning to some survivoval mode.
I remember how one day I played some custom with close concept. It was like extreme Hide and SeekYou have to choose stealth killer on Midwich, survivor also choose stealth builds. Aura read is forbidden except addons, but there are a really an important condition — survivors must to play on the low gamma. Basically it was some kind of build up horror when you crouch around map and hiding in corners, while some Dredge with Lavalier Microphone looking for you.
There are no point in doing gens. Only one hook stage. Tho I really dislike when killer role more pushed to PvE and it forced to entertain others, in this case I didn't mind. Everyone tried their best to scare other, and we had some really funny “blind loops”.Some short hide and seek event wouldn't harm this game. Just create system that prevents making this matches too long. It's not really bad to give some piece of extra stealth for casual mode, as turn out making game around some 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1.
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The true is in many moments u aren't actually even get the value out of them
I love playing phead. And his videotape addon barely makes a difference, after hours of trials you realize it’s rather some placebo than sth actually useful. There are many add-ons with 0 value, placebo or even bugs, so I doubt they gonna add a system to show player that add-ons player chose didn't work. More player would realise that over half of options in game is useless
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I felt killer simply had a pity on team and usually it made me unsatisfied with match. I don’t really see excitement of escaping when it’s simply gifted. And I know usually it can be kind of pity, because sometimes do it as killer as well. When early DC, when I feel I’m too oppressive and players extremely overwhelmed, when I sense some burn out and sometimes just give up, letting them that miserable out. On both side I feel it’s kinda forced out of politeness because game failed to be a competent match.
I played so many slug races, crouch games, hide and seek, bardic inspirations and everything else I exceeded the limit of interest to same move. Last time I did this was on 2vs8 when my teammate was AFK and I gave up. Mindless chase, some imitation of talk with survs and let interested people do the slug race. And 1vs4 on Fallen Refugee when downs was too fast. From surv side it was Blight that gave me hatch because 3 people dced on 4th gen -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036486#Comment_4036486
The only person I see being sensitive is you.
"Treat him like a killer you shouldn't drop pallet for without specific reason. There are plenty of them, like Doctor, Artist, Trickster, Houndmaster, Ghoul…"
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"If not from wrong but didn’t manage get stun, you just waste pallets. You drop only when sure she doesn’t have birds yet and this is safe tile for predrop to shift w."
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"Good Doctor will zone you as well, and at that moment, dropped pallet not gonna help you, only if you exploit bug with frames after he used power." (bug, lol.)
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"I’ll prefer to make few more rounds around some garbage before dropping pallet against Doc rather than using one thing and assuming player doesn’t know timings or not using electrodes :)"
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"Your choice wasting 20 seconds around one tile or 30 with constant connecting and pushing him farther from your start point, with probability of not wasting a single resource."
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"Is it me trying here point how it’s right to play or you sticking to only one possible scenario forgetting game can be variable and you should adapt?"
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"so skill expression - is average killer repeatedly doing mistakes or patterning mediocre play… wow… I thought actual skill expression is understanding actual potential of killer."
I hope you are aware in your rigid black and white thinking that even chess grandmasters made mistakes. People in sports, of all kinds are capable of making mistakes. Online multi-player is no exception, but again I do not expect much from someone with issues in dichotomy thinking. Every single aspect of professional sports, games, anything all capitalize on mistakes and adapting from the perceived errors their opponent consistently makes. You are arguing that a killer should be its pinnacle, when humans are humans and guess what humans do? Predictable patterns - but I digress, this is my last comment to you.
If you read texts as whole and not sentences in vacuum, you’ve seen sth more.
They won’t let you leave zone where you can be closed,
”where”. So specific situation.
I’ll prefer to make few more rounds around some garbage before dropping pallet against Doc rather than using one thing and assuming player doesn’t know timings or not using electrodes
Literally explanation of situation where I drop pallet or not
"Is it me trying here point how it’s right to play or you sticking to only one possible scenario forgetting game can be variable and you should adapt?"
It was question, because you first started with point of me somehow claiming the only way you must play. When I never said this. I just you can do other way. Question literally pointing on it. so skill expression - is average killer repeatedly doing mistakes or patterning mediocre play… wow…
"If not from wrong but didn’t manage get stun, you just waste pallets. You drop only when sure she doesn’t have birds yet and this is safe tile for predrop to shift w."“If” - I was talking about side there literally. I even said situation when it’s actually guaranteed safe to drop. Because you yourself said “good Artist gonna force hit during change of loop”. When it actually happened just because pallet was dropped on side letting you without connection and you zoned yourself. And that’s why I said it’s better greed against this killer if she within range. I don’t know how many if, when, and where I must add and how much I should emphasise you to notice it.
I’m sorry, but it wasn’t me who started with “but what if Legion good enough”, “Welp, I played against Momo”, “I do counterplay and it exist! But in first message I’m gonna tell you it’s actually hard and iri button oppressive. I don’t why you even started dialogue with me about iri button being hard to counter, firstly pointing my way of counterplay by greed worse and requiring SFW for sone reason. When I just said whats even the point of dropping pallets against Legion if it’s not for the stun, because he is harmless during Frenzy. So my play against iri and non iri Legion doesn’t changed, it’s pre assumed and doesn’t harm me or my team anyway… even when it turns out he doesn’t have iri button.
I see that only you started that weird competition over who is playing better, and the only way to show opposite is showing my late messages throwing them out of context. I provided examples of situation where it’s more beneficial to greed - you started pointing out I am wrong. I simply disagreed with you, and you build up a theory I assume only one possible way of play. If you wanted prove something for yourself I’m not gonna stop you, your point aren’t ultimately wrong, they just contradicting for me and I’m confused why you even started this conversation. Sorry again if I somehow misread the room. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036464#Comment_4036464
Alright, I'm not depending on luck but if that is your core argument and you are applying the logic that the killer has to be all-knowing, chess grandmaster level with no imperfections - I have nothing more to add to this conversation where we are clearly applying two different mindsets. I cannot debate someone whose core concept is to not ever drop pallets against Artist, Legion, or Doctor - nor can I debate someone who functionally implies repeated observation of misplays or patterns is "luck". I'm not engaging in some false idealized world that the player I am playing against is some deity that just is automatically good and your comment earlier where you implied if a killer does a mid play, therefore you are a mid player is Ad-hominem by definition - I'm not wasting my time on a person incapable of getting out of rigid black and white thinking.
Best of luck.
I literally saying when and how… not “at all”. Said main “if”, a bunch of reservations. Sure. I just feel you read one sentence you didn't like and stop reading everything else. Because everything you trying to blame in wasn't actually told.
Yeah. You are mid player as soon as not maining specific character or invested a lot of time in game overall. Mid play doesn't mean bad, I don’t know why you are so sensitive about people you are facing generally being average, as majority are. There are many casual players who are good. Like I’m mid player myself except one killer, doesn't feel anything wrong about this. I just don't claim that the best counterplay ever evolves around capitalizing mistakes of someone being worse than me in advance in X situation.
You yourself started with “if Legion good enough”, and then dropped to explanation of counterplay when other side making many mistakes aka spamming power on Doc without purpose. It wasn't me who provided a plank of specific play in dialogue. You started this, and now got mad when I said it's not such a high skill to loop one tile against Doc or spamming vault button against Legion.
There are no idealised world, but I thought it is rational to try best in trial if you want to win. Which assume respecting opponent and feeling they understand characters they playing, until it will be proved otherwise. Especially in DBD where matchmaking is broken. Again, please, some attention, I said “until”. Didn't say always. There are no way of perfect play and I didn't even claim it.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036335#Comment_4036335
Alright, brother/sister whatever floats your boat.
You're arguing idealistic language, I'm arguing more macro - the discussion isn't going anywhere. I'm talking on my own due to my own experience playing survivor and what I see amongst my own gameplay... That is how we formulate opinions? Lmfao.
I don't care if you view Dying Light as a weak perk, your opinion is not an objective fact over what I see in my own games of playing survivor. Why use a Hex perk on Legion? What Hex perk is good on Legion? Let's hear it, go ahead.
Also, is that not the same for the killer side? You do recognize both sides win their games over numerous mistakes on each side. You are aware that killer players are not robotic, similar to survivors. Probzzz, Ayrun, JRM, Cru5h, Hens, Otzdarva, Scott Jund, MomoSeventh, Bleak, etc - all can make variable mistakes, I have no idea why you are arguing that I should not capitalize on my opponent's own mistakes, similar to me also making mistakes that killers capitalize on as well - Good grief.
I will edit this because I can see you making this argument, I have played against Momo three times and Bleak once (even beating Bleak on Dracula - before you make any assumptions of skill this and why are you bringing up comp/content creators bogus mentality). I just genuinely am flabbergasted that you think people just genuinely do not make mistakes and I should just utilize game knowledge, lol - I need to take a break from discussing this with you, it's mind-boggling.
Hex ruin was generally buffed and has good synergy with mixed tape. He literally has mini ruin in his add-on and you can combine them, it is logical to use them together. Dominance, Undying, Painres and good luck average solo q dealing with such build on small or medium sized map. On big maps it’s more manageable.
You literally provided yourself arguement about easy counterplay of Dying Light. I simply don’t understand you, because specific statements in your posts simply contradicting each other. My position is simple - majority aren’t using actual full meta, because crave some variability. Thats fine. But it’s not making Dying Light on Legion a good choice. There are no macro if you playing around average play, this is just your memory and habits. And good killer player abuse such habits a lot. You aren’t gonna face them average match simply, but your actual skill potential has chance to shine in such cases when you in advance playing “clean”.
Listen. I just said it’s not that hard to counter iri button. Even in good hands. Yes, it’s a strong add-on, thats the point of strong add-ons, but it’s still a mid killer. There are no advanced mental gymnastic to counterplay him with or without this add-on. You don’t need to play in sfw to understand you can prevent stack if it’s convinient for the team, you can save sources and everything else, and playing around iri button doesn’t provide you anything. He is just extemely annoying.
Momo three times and Bleak onceWhy I need such information? Congrats, I played in solo with Ivn and against some comp players. Some pub players with 18k hours. Is it some silly competition you want to make? I can’t play against Momo because we are on different continents, kinda.
I didn’t tell you don’t have experience enough or anything. You can be better than me in terms of looping, I’m not here to claim you are completely wrong or anything. No one forbids you capitalise average killer mistake - after they committing it. Or before , ok, but there are no macro assuming mid play, you hoping on luck. Running to Legion face and vault after him thinking he wouldn’t catch proper timing isn’t the best play ever and understanding of his addons and positioning is much more important, Yes, I do it myself as well, I just don’t call such play a high level one or his counterplay. Counterplay of killers is in macro. I think you can’t deny it. Yes, we aren’t robots, but our discussion was about being able to dodge one addon on low tier. You started with some arguments, and as soon as I said such play isn’t the most effective one you got seriously offended. Play however you want, idc. Just there are no point claiming something hard to dodge when your average example of counterplay is only about abuse of rookie mistake. Because it will flip flop to killer capitalising your own.
I don’t see point in dropping pallets against Legion in power anyways, if it’s not a play for stun that risky. No point in wasting any resources when you are healthy especially, you’ll get a hit anyways. My counterplay was simply not letting him bodyblock prompts and always waiting for his power cancel. He can’t do anything in power if you spread on map depriving from stacks. Usually worked. I don’t find it exceptional or extraordinary -
The multiply timer doesn’t fade out, though. If it went to x2 it doesn’t return to previous speed and stacking, which is helpful in case of camping on 3gen area for example. By actual numbers nothing really changed - it still works for the same time period. But it progress faster so killer can’t prevent self unhook on last moment.
In case of actually prolonged proxycamping when killer tries to secure stage on last 25 sec it’s working better then previous fill rate as well.
Presence of teammates close to hook also influence on fill rate. If not ranged killer, you can guarantee unhook of teammates in any case before 10-25 sec left. If killer would try body block or get closer as soon as you approach, you simply can go further. Fast multiply won’t even let killer understand it starts to fill. Anti face camp indeed stronger now, it just stayed as anti face camp. -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036329#Comment_4036329
Yes, I do not see hex builds on Legion at all. If anything, what I just described is the core perk builds that I see or the odd stealth Legion (when map offerings actually meant something). I do not see Legion in my solo-queue games regardless - most I see is Blight, Kaneki, Wesker, etc. I barely if ever see Legion because Legion typically suffers for the aforementioned reasons I listed in the above, most skilled survivors know how to punish a Legion by simply not staying together or having one person healed to offset the Thana/Dying Light slowdown.
Why would I assume a killer is running a specific add-on and simply just drop one single pallet to test if such and such killer is using a specific add-on. Same thing for Pyramid Head and his breaking pallets with his power, why would I just assume, "Okay, Pyramid Head is very good with the pallet breaking add-on, so let's just hold W." - you do realize even if I came in with that logic, which is flawed by the way - the Pyramid Head still would not be able to hit me if I move out of the way of the power. Same thing for a Legion, cool - Legion vaulted over a pallet and destroyed it, I now have that knowledge to know that Legion has Iri-Button and to do the previous stuff I just mentioned that I could do to prolong the game during my own chase.
Your line of reasoning was that the survivor must play worst - you argued that an Artist is good with precision, Doctor is good with his zapping - so, yes - when I face against a killer, I'm not actively thinking to myself - I have better skill expression that such and such killer, however, if I am seeing a repeated pattern over and over again - I will simply take in that knowledge, compound upon it, and utilize it - that is what helps people in skill expression as a survivor. All of the killers all have different counterplay and direct weaknesses from one another, it's not like I'm loading into a game and do the same logic per killer to other killers, lol.
Sure, there is some similarities but all of the killers in the game all have different counterplay even with varying weaknesses between each other. Some survivors complain about Krasue, I enjoy Krasue. Some survivors complain about Nurse, I enjoy Nurse. I would not play against a Krasue similar to how I would play against a Krasue.
Why would I assume a killer is running a specific add-on and simply just drop one single pallet to test if such and such killer is using a specific add-on
… I don’t see any point in out discussion, it’s like you talking on your own. I literally said that you don’t drop palllets at all against Legion until he cancels his power. I didn’t said “well, test him”. What are you talking about? I didn’t encourage grouping from the start, nothing. I said if you already were in group and killer got some stacks, prevent insta down of 4th player by bodyblocking. I literally myself said Dying Light is weak, why I need to hear it again?
I don’t really care that you constantly deal with S tiers because it wasn’t a point of our discussion. I also don’t encounter Legion that much.
if I am seeing a repeated pattern over and over again - I will simply take in that knowledge, compound upon it, and utilize it - that is what helps people in skill expression as a survivor
so skill expression - is average killer repeatedly doing mistakes or patterning mediocre play… wow… I thought actual skill expression is understanding actual potential of killer. Now I’m not surprised why my game on Executioner sometimes so simple, because survivors auto assuming I’m playing him as average player and not maining, while my builds and style extremely discouraging them …
Because I mained Executioner, I started to assume the best play possible on this killer every time I encounter him as surv. It made me so good against dodging them, that I can significantly waste time of typical player or run without single injury against person who are new with him. I thought it was my personal skill expression I enjoyed…
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- Cosmetic and perks only.
- You can use lightborn or try to find specific shaders. There are no way to make blind effect less agressive within game.
- Artist, Nemesis, Plague, Clown, DeathSlinger has the best killer perks. The best meta is on basic survivors, but you can buy Halloween DLC to get Decisive Strike from Laurie. I advise prestige Meg, Kate, Feng, Dwight, Zarina, Bill and Claudette first of all. Resident Evil and Halloween is the only chapters you may consider to buy at this point. If you want play killer more I advise RE, if survivor then Halloween.
- Nothing clear here, depends how much BP u usually can get. Ideally prestige everyone to one to get teachable perks and then focus on your favourite.
I will leave you one useful link to watch as well with basically every basic. Welcome to the fog.
https://youtu.be/nZfrksH_FlY -
@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036317#Comment_4036317
Why would you assume a killer like Legion always must have Iri-Button, unless the proposed change is that Legion has Iri-Button basekit? I hardly if ever see a Legion utilize Iri-Button and typically see Thanatophobia and Dying Light synergies more than I see an Iri-Button Legion. It's not good to just "assume" a killer is running an add-on and simply opting to ignore pallet resources on the off-chance of simply verifying the Iri-Button is actually in play is not sound advice for anyone.
The correct gameplan against any Legion in high MMR is simply to separate and do gens, that is why Legion in high MMR struggles against people in high MMR (whether solo-queue or SWF). It is objectively a bad idea to group up with people and prevent Legion's down, even then let's say the fourth person is down via the power - you have two or three other survivors ideally on gens during this downtime for the first down, especially if the Legion is stacking gen regression, which they often do.
Yes, why would an Artist attempt to break a pallet allowing the survivor to reach another tile? A skilled Artist typically knows to zone down a survivor and they place multiple birds down, especially in jungle gym situations. The pallet, like I mentioned is a buffer zone. The Artist will place a bird at the downed pallet, the survivor on the other side of that pallet then has to gauge with themselves that they cannot continue to loop at the pallet without being hit with birds - they can take the window, move to another tile (again, as I mentioned Artist is slowed down during this process), or simply break line of sight as Artist suffers from line of sight breaking as she has to hit you with said crows, lol.
It's so fascinating to me when people debate on the forums and objectively think that the way they play and exhibit condescending behavior makes the user more holier than thou - do whatever you want to do with Doctor, but implying it's a bug or me pointing out killer mistakes that I see time and time again when versing specific killers and invalidating another user's experience because you have no argument otherwise for direct counterplay tied to specific killers.
It's not good to group up against any Legion, I do not care that the fourth person is going to go down via the power (it's the first hook of the game and clustering is bad for a killer like Legion as they can easily capitalize on the survivor team grouping up.)
Not all Artists players have wall hacks and can easily hit you through walls, not all Doctors have pristine zaps to prevent you from vaulting a pallet. Even in situations where a Doctor can hold you at a pallet that you round and round around we go on, they will opt to zap versus kick the pallet to zone you. Doctor is legitimately wasting time in this situation or in a longer form where the survivor can wrap around a longer obstacle to hold the Doctor there for seconds to minutes, it's all macro at the end of the day.
I hardly if ever see a Legion utilize Iri-Button and typically see Thanatophobia and Dying Light synergies more than I see an Iri-Button Legion. I
Personal Experience and players I met when played myself. More likely it was full gen slowdown, or hex + mix tape + iri
Or pallet swap with iri and standard enduring and spirit fury. Lust one isn’t a big deal.
And why not assuming? How it’s gonna spoil your game or help killer? Moreover, you even saved some resource. Than why I should care and go from lowest to highest during my assumption. Dying Light with Thanatophobia is a weak choice when you are gonna assume u will always play on small to mid size map, and survivors won’t spread around depriving you from killer instinct. Dying Light is so weak :/ Scourge and DMS provide more value on him than two of this together. At least it was considered like this among players I’m usually facing with.Not all Artists players have wall hacks and can easily hit you through walls, not all Doctors have pristine zaps to prevent you from vaulting a pallet
So again. Your arguments fully build up around killer player being actually worse than you or not having the most efficient builds… then I’m not surprised some stuff in solo like team play against Legion in solo Q seems so hard.
My whole assumption was going how you dodge killer that understand details. How they can zone, capitalise macro and resources, using best builds possible. You don’t need wh on Artist if you are in filler or construction having only two directions to go. Your assumption literally goes from Doc player running around loop like a bot. For me it’s a huge problemacy here, that leads to a position again, that majority of players struggling against iri button because can’t even assume from the start.
As soon as you start assume the worst against opponent, as soon you’ll learn actual counterplay. Player commiting to mistakes allowing me do my own mistakes without harsh punishment isn’t my choice. I don’t like to play like this. I am myself bringing effective load outs both on killer and surv so already got used to dodge first painres without knowing about this or thinking that x killer will have y build more likely. And usually I manage to guess it
The correct gameplan against any Legion in high MMR is simply to separate and do gens, that is why Legion in high MMR struggles against people in high MMR (whether solo-queue or SWF).
You barely reading my post not realising I literally saying the same, claiming only one situation when you should go for altruism. Like woah. Is it me trying here point how it’s right to play or you sticking to only one possible scenario forgetting game can be variable and you should adapt?
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036226#Comment_4036226
You cannot deduce a killer's loadout (specifically Iri-Button) without first sacrificing the first pallet in chase. A pallet, generally speaking guarantees safety due to the distance between you and the killer. Hell, I've looped a Ghoul on a pallet tile as well.
I wouldn't even say Iri-Button is the best add-on for Legion, I said it's among the best - however, to imply that people deduce it unless you're using a perk that shows pallets is near impossible for the average person in regular solo-queue, but again it's something that you become aware of when you're having the 1v1 with the Legion and yes, this is when you adapt your playstyle once the add-on becomes apparent.
Yes, your argument was that you, as a solo-queue person should chase among Legion to prevent the fourth down via power. I'm simply saying this is a waste of time, generally speaking it's best to take the hit if you get hit with the power, and do a gen. Not just play babysitter following the Legion to prevent the first down, but again, I focus on gens - I do not partake in all of that especially early game where gens typically are the priority. SWF is usually ideal in this situation, a solo-queue person should not waste time unless they are the third hit by default, even then the last survivor should not be babysat to prevent the fourth hit - there's counterplay for the fourth survivor usually to prevent it via what I mentioned in the previous comment.
When you are looping with Artist in a tile, you can create space amongst yourself to create a mind game with the Artist. A skilled Artist player will typically set up birds and force you to leave the pallet area, more often than not they will not break the pallet and you play around via mind game with birds. The pallet is simply space between the Artist and you and creating a zone where you can freely loop around without being M1ed, I don't know why you're implying that you must greed unless you are looping in an area where the Artist can see you (no walls), otherwise I still disagree - Artist loses distance and can easily zone you otherwise with the birds or hit you, hence the free buffer zone - it's not a waste of a pallet when the killer can ignore it and zone you, it's creating mind game potential to waste the Artist's time.
How is greeding around a pallet as Doctor inefficiently zaps you with his power a bug? Lol. The point of looping around and I have seen many, many Doctors time their shocks around the pallet and again, the survivor is generally wasting the Doctor's time. Dead By Daylight is a time based game, anything that you are doing as a survivor is generally buying time for anything that your team is doing on the map (whether it's gens or healing) - predropping against a Doctor who refuses to kick the pallet, you're going around and around as Doctor keeps zapping you is buying your team time regardless. A good Doctor knows that they can easily break a pallet that they keep doing ring around the rosey on, but I have seen Doctors become stubborn trying to continually shock when they can easily just break a pallet. You break the pallet, especially on the pallet side where you can zone them - and you will have an easier time. However, again this is all due to some Doctor players who specifically keep zapping and wasting time and some Doctor players still do this.
This game is always about decision making. Assuming stuff or not. And if u always assume iri button… actually, nothing harms you. If he doesn't have it you just allowed to drop more. But if you assume this add-on from the start it's not a big deal.
TBH I’m not talking about babysitting to prevent Legion for stacking. But that's a clear thing that against this killer you need shift w a lot and deny his power. You don’t need to chase him to deny stack, but if your team made a mistake ending up 4 together within small range and you have info about teammate who under threat, the smartest play is do altruism here. You’ll win more time rather than waste.
I think it's worthy just point that some counterplay isn’t a big deal. Many people love to find an excuse of bad play just because they are solo q. Sorry not sorry, I don't take it seriously. U either playing good in match understanding game, or not and every stuff seems hard. Sure this argument doesn't fit to players below 500 hours, but I have slightly more and expecting teammates with 1k- 3k hours understand some stuff, especially if they play surv only. Otherwise it's simply a waste of time in such game where you barely progressed. If majority of Legions you encountered using sleeping pills or iri button, why not assuming you have to play against them from the start? You will lose nothing doing this.
A skilled Artist player will typically set up birds and force you to leave the pallet area, more often than not they will not break the pallet and you play around via mind game with birds.
Lol. The point of looping around and I have seen many, many Doctors time their shocks around the pallet and again, the survivor is generally wasting the Doctor's time
About Artist… Are u sure? Good Artist do right shots through M2 and actually using their birds. They won’t let you leave zone where you can be closed, this is ridiculous waste of time. It's irrational to force leaving loop on killer with power that go through any pallet. It's as bs as people who claim M2 to M1 fake on Executioner it the best and strongest play. Are we discussing actual skill or play around people being mid? If you as survivor got hit through fast M1 against such killers… it's your mistake first of all. Or you try to waste time when already was zoned out, depends on situation.
The best way of wasting time is connect loop with other objects instead of mindlessly running around circle waiting of inevitable. I’ll prefer to make few more rounds around some garbage before dropping pallet against Doc rather than using one thing and assuming player doesn’t know timings or not using electrodes :) Your choice wasting 20 seconds around one tile or 30 with constant connecting and pushing him farther from your start point, with probability of not wasting a single resource. While staying in one loop you wasting sources, and every adequate Doctor will zone u here.
P.S. Some doctors spam power to push person to max tier of madness to distract from gen, or preventing self heal after unhook, sabo or whatever. Some add-ons specifically encourage spam of shocks. If you constantly getting dropped after few shocks, especially when someone on hook nearby, killer wasting your time and force you to drop pallets that become much more mindgamable after being dropped. Dropped pallets is much worse against him rather than untouched. Especially now where many fillers are garbage.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036209#Comment_4036209
Yes, if you're playing in SWF and someone calls out Iridescent Button... Sure.
If you're playing Solo-Queue, you find out he has Iridescent Button by simply versing Legion when the pallet breaks.
I still do not agree that it needs to be embedded into his kit, but to imply that survivors willingly give it to them - especially if in solo-queue is not an argument. There's nothing much you can do if Legion has Iri-Button: Either greed around pallets, FOV tech spins, micromovements, or utilize windows (if Legion doesn't carry Bamboozle) - regardless, most of the time they'll Iri Button a pallet, cancel their power and hit you or walk you down and down you as it's generally not good to heal against Legion unless death hook arguably.
Iri-Button is one of Legion's strongest add-ons in the right hands with the right perks, even if most utilize slowdown Legion.
Again, the last bit is good in SWF as you can coordinate hits via comms - expecting a solo-queue person to chase down Legion to prevent the hit is not optimal and Legion can be outplayed without people following to prevent the power hit too.
An additional point, me chasing down the Legion to prevent the insta-down when I would rather focus on gens besides clustering up to prevent the little snowball hits is another side note. I'd rather get the gens done, rather than follow Legion to prevent the down too and not be clustered up like headless chickens running around with Legion.
Edit: no, you can outplay a Legion at a pallet, lol. I have done it many times where a Legion pulls up their power, I drop the pallet, and I go to vault back over and the Legion hits the pallet rendering his power useless. The same can be done at a window, again - I've done it many times. Just because you're at a pallet does not guarantee a Legion to hit you, unless... It's a horrible 50/50, the survivor misplayed around said pallet, or just like I said Iri-Button.
Also, you want to drop a pallet with Artist, I don't know where you get that you should greed a pallet with Artist when she can set up birds and pallets give you leeway to have space between the Artist (force her to set up birds) and decide if you want to stay at the tile or move to a different tile as she loses distance when she sets birds up - you don't want to be zoned out.
Same for Doctor, using a pallet against Doctor, again - gives you space and most Doctors spam their power quite inefficiently and refuse to break the pallet at times due to being stubborn. You have a point kinda with Houndmaster, as you can smack the dog with the pallet if she uses the dog to try to drag you but I disagree with the other two.
I don’t play in sfw. I don’t trade pallets by default against Legion in power because good killer will avoid stun anyways, while him being in power without stacks being pretty harmless :₽ As much as I don’t drop against ghouls before first injury.
You can do stuff without comms. Use deduction if notice there are too many broken pallets, or simply playing by exclusion method and assume killer gonna bring best loadout possible. If you don’t hear mixed tape or he isn’t that fast (sleeping pills) there are more likely gonna be iri button. If you are the first one to encounter iri button - thats the point of strong add-on. Later you automatically change your playstyle.
He is not Twins or Singularity to ask for SFW counterplay. It’s the same mid killer, who just will burn your resources only if you give them.
Legion at a pallet, lol. I have done it many times where a Legion pulls up their power, I drop the pallet, and I go to vault back over and the Legion hits the pallet rendering his power useless.
I thought we discussed good killer player, not guy who smack hit button with obvious auto aim situation.
Also, you want to drop a pallet with Artist, I don't know where you get that you should greed a pallet with Artist
Same for Doctor, using a pallet against Doctor, again - gives you space and most Doctors spam their power quite inefficientlyI thought we discussed good players x2. You are being zoned if dropping fillers from wrong sides. If not from wrong but didn’t manage get stun, you just waste pallets. You drop only when sure she doesn’t have birds yet and this is safe tile for predrop to shift w. Only predrop for distance. Since when we dropping pallets against zoning killers within range lol, helping them with locking you.
“Many Doctors use power inefficiently”. I’m sorry, but you kinda contradicting yourself, in first post claiming about “if Legion good enough”, later describibg worst play for other killers. Good Doctor will zone you as well, and at that moment, dropped pallet not gonna help you, only if you exploit bug with frames after he used power. You supposed to use textures and garbage and connect it to actual loop because his shock slows him down.
There are true every killer (even Legion with iri) suffer from general predrop of tiles for distance. However it’s really important to realise when you playing like this as necessity, and when you helping killer later because you wasted too many resources. Your position, distance, and pathing matters more than your skill in loop, because as soon as killer learn about macro, patience and bloodlust, there are few options to do.
You can’t outplay actually good killer player in loop, because they polished mechanical play, so your only option is make them guess twice and postpone hits as much as possible, at the same time saving resources when it’s needed. -
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035908#Comment_4035908
Sure. 99+% on killer, 80% on survivor. Sounds fair…. I think there's no point in continuing this debate at this point.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035909#Comment_4035909
Right. Survivors need to just git good. But killer is hard. No metric except competitive and some streamers says so (there are ofc other streamers saying exact opposite things), but still. Killer is harder and survivor just git good. And if there's OFICIAL stats proving me wrong, than that's "unreliable". But anecdotal experience or "streamer said" is obviously clear proof everyone should listen to. You are waay worse then @tes above…
Welcome to assym game where surviving actual mean something :/ This 80 escapes done with only bardic inspiration is nothing, sure. What's the point of role if you press m1 and then escape through gates, idk. Sometimes I feel players who complain like this just should play killer only. Survivors simply doesn't belong to your mindset so make it more simple for everyone. If you expect game returning to its release balance state with easy escapes, it's over. Done.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035568#Comment_4035568
Without high dpi on mause you cant flick on pyramidhead and turn so easily thats it (you can flick but its very small turn that doesnt give you that advantage but those 90 degree flicks or more when you go around the loop with your power and flick yeah thas something no one expects both killer and the survivor).
The thing is you can flick on default DPI. 60 fps and max sensitivity can be used within the game settings. Maybe you can slightly up mouse speed on pc setting. You aren't even using specific drivers or 3rd part programs.
After they removed flicks on Oni I would like to say there are no need to play with extremely high DPI on this game. There are a huge stereotype this brings you default advantages.
https://youtu.be/c5ot7isC7vgOn this video you can see flicks. I didn't use anything except in game and pc default settings. You don't need “more”.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035912#Comment_4035912
What is the dodge for Iri button for Legion? He uses his power, vaults over the pallet, breaks it - sometimes they'll cancel power to zone you or hit you over the pallet, so what dodge would you have other than spinning the Legion (skilled players can deal with FOV tech or spinning) or doing micromovements.
Even then, a counter to Legion vaulting is by vaulting back over the pallet, similar to Wesker or Vecna while in flight. The addition to Iridescent Button would make Dissolution unnecessary and practically basekit for Legion, if you want to have pallets be destroyed use the add-on or Dissolution. Legion is fine with chase, especially a good Legion who understands they can cancel the power and down a person and not constantly tagging people consistently.
… Why even give him pallet during his power?
He will hit you anyways. Good Legion use iri button for fast trade of resources. Simply don’t give it. I noticed that many survivors giving Legion free pallets trying to stun him during his power (that usually just leads to +1 stack, sure)
I don't know about “good Legion”, but on my memory I had a game with Legion, iri button on Ormond. I was scared first because on first half he demolished my teammates, but when it was my turn… I simply didn't give him any pallets beside one when he was forced cancelling his power. The hardest thing is just not letting him bodyblock you. He dropped me like… 3 times and I escaped through hatch later. Other game where I lost against this killer was on Legion without this add-on, that was a Game. Simply, two times in a row my teammates gave him stacks, on third time, rat Yun Jin without zero hooks thought it’s nice idea to bring killer to the room with last gen instead of taking down. So, he skipped her and take me, but it was 3 escapes at least.
The only unfair thing on this killer is when your teammates failed so hard they gave him 3 stacks of power and not trying to bodyblock to save you. This is frustrating Insta down. Otherwise even with iri button he is pretty mindgameble killer. Some survivors just scary of the fact you stay injured whole game or can stay without resources. Treat him like a killer you shouldn't drop pallet for without specific reason. There are plenty of them, like Doctor, Artist, Trickster, Houndmaster, Ghoul…
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Just pick gen slowdown.
You can make it more sophisticated, like prevent team hits and whatever… but that's too cheesy. And at one point you are gonna meet wonderful team who value their time and will push gens simply. I mean, point of tunnelling is actually dodging strong teams? Than slowdown is the only right answer.
And something like protection hits, chase - actually an interesting part of gameplay where you can progress. So no need in chase perks for killers who are decent enough.
But Xeno is good in map controlling, so actually there are no need to proxycamp hook by default to tunnel later. Wiser play use your mobility and play for gens as well. Killer instinct or absolute weapon for example is the solution if you really need to find someone.
I genuinely don’t advise blindly tunnel on such killer. He is not low tier to justify it. Tunnel and hook control must be thoughtful decision if you are using it for actual winning and not routine playstyle you this comforts with
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That's all I can say
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What about fixing 5 years old bug on Lerry or collision issues on Shattered Square, Swamp, Toba Landing, Greenwille and RPD for PHead? Talking from perspective of player who mained SH characters.
Or at least making Cheryl looks like actual Cheryl…
I don’t see any opportunities for new meaningful content. Skins only. Silent Hill F feels too “independent” from actual franchise.
I don't mind content from SH homecoming tho…
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035698#Comment_4035698
isnt there a penalty when 2 or more survivors work on the gen? thats what I thought anyways. like the only upside to having more than 1 survivor is if they are really good at great skill checks then it might get done faster, unless I have that wrong?
Thats what I am saying. There are speed penalty for team repair, and two people save around 1 sec on gen at their best. Team repair is something unfair only when member bring prove thyselves
People who actually gen rush just spread on map. You don’t even need perks for this to be gen efficient, but perks make it free basically
There are no point to apply penalties or nerfing perks to oblivious. Max you can do is simply limit stack of progression to prevent some silly numbers. I think the max progression within moment never should be higher than 150% of total gen speed and that's all. You can’t really meaningfully nerf genrush to make it more balanced because if directly routes from assym format
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We are in 2025 and majority of players barely can dodge iri button.
You can make him stronger, or weaker - doesn’t matter. People hating him on his weakest state possible already -
@Gandor said:
Short streak means nothing. Long streaks gives statistical significance. Are you trying to say nobody ever in eu wants to win on survivor? That nobody ever takes meta stuff and plays sweaty? Or that the percentage of those players is in realm of 1 in 2000 games?
if the streak number gets too ridiculous, it actually indicates things and not just and outlier or tendency.
and once more - this thread is about no mither. If we presume you are perfectly correct that survivors ruin the game by picking non-meta perks. Then why is no mither allowed to be in the game? To spread the frustration more? Is that the worthy goal we should aim for?
I’m just curious - have you ever seen survivor teams doing streaks? Like same Invictus? Have you ever heard what they themselves claiming and doing? Have u seen players actually doing streaks, what they do, what they think? Usually it is unserious mess with rare gem matches that later going for channels…Most of players who do this streaks belongs to comp and doing it entirely for content, not even hiding it.
Or you just seen someone having high number and never actually was searching about such content? Invictus literally lost over 100+ wins because one member in team started to meme for Legion and traded every pallet for iri button for laugh…
“Short streak”, “long streak” - they both contain bs numbers and extremes you would see in game. Killers can more consistently win, survs can more consistently speed up match tempo and also escaping. My own games when I get good MMR lasted 6-8 minutes when killer tried the best… You can’t cherry pick something specific and only cry about this. You have to accept the fact that both roles have ridiculous potential.
Survivors on EU maybe want to win, but they play extremely selfish or refuse to be acknowledged about meta. BUT, even with such play…
Even on EU servers you can play 100 games with one perk and solo q, escaping around 80 times. Where only 16 was related to hatch. So nuh… purely matter of perspective. If you wish to choose playing in the most ineffective and casual play - you wouldn’t win a lot as surv. And this, as some chemical reaction, will gift casual matches for killer. That’s the point of surviving. You can’t return to past time, where one button and BNP complete whole gen or you can keep killer hostage hiding in bush. As much as killer can’t bodyblock unhook prompt and camp 3gen anymore.
As much this game is about RNG factor, as much every win streak possible is a definition of luck. In other games streaks have much stricter regulations. In DBD comp scene is not supervised properly and became absurd play of handicapping each other. People do it for fun, money, and bragging
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035786#Comment_4035786
Winning 10x in a row is luck. Winning 1948x in a row is no luck. It's a VERY CLEAR pattern. In and 1948 you are guaranteed to also get tryhards, comp players, 4man squads and all that. It's too high number to dismiss like you did. That's basic mathematical statistics.
Even Hen's 50wins in a row clearly state that very good players have odds stacked for them. But you can't compare those to 1948. That's 2 orders of magnitute different. It means that if Hen's group needs roughly 90% win rate + luck, Momo would need 99,9% win rate and same amount of luck. A huuuuuge difference. One is winning vast majority of matches while other is almost guaranteed to win.
And for:
survivors are survivors. Name of the game literally hinting you likely gonna lose playing this role
That's exactly what I am saying. The game is already stacked against survivors. Yet there are people who see it in a different light. And use their own anecdotal experience as "proof".
As for:
This game is meta and macro sided. And if one survivor in team doesn’t understand the value of meta, you are doomed to lose in specific circumstances
is precisely why I wrote no mither should not be in open rotation of perks anyone should be able to take, but those that are already likely to win (4man squads). The perk basically ruins the game for everyone else in the team.
It’s
alwaysyour killrate and escape rates being a definition of average player. It’salwaysme trying my best when some L just cheese. Sure. Yeah. But when other claim same? Oh no, here the problem…Not really. This is why I always name official stats or other things that can be verified. TBH I can't even use personal stats, because I got so fed up with how much "killer fantasy role", that I stopped playing it about 2 years ago. The thing is, I loved the game so much back when I started and it was much more fair, that I still come to forum from time to time.
Survivors indeed harder role by winning
Thanks for acknowledgement - that's what I was saying and yet "survivor is the easier role" as can be seen above…
I’ll tell again - if players consciously refuse to pick meta, they will lose against guy who damn playing Blight with best possible perks.
Just think rational. How often you see actual meta pick on specific region? How often survivors actually sweats? This role in general much more chill and casual, they barely chasing actual tools for winning, so no wonder what’s wrong.
He wouldn’t have this bs number playing on other server with higher meta pick. Simply facing different mind set.
I stopped playing it about 2 years ago
This game feels the same yet too different at the same time. I played only one year for around 850 hours. Yet, it felt vastly different every time. When they nerfed map offering, when go next system died, when Ghoul appeared. This ping pong leads to the point you don’t feel any point in victimising specific role. There are no killer or survivor are miserable in general. It’s balance being random in general.
I started playing DBD as surv on British server with my friend. Played few weeks, return to my hometown in Central Asia, ending up playing against East Europe and Asians on really high ping. And I mostly played survivor in solo, maybe switching to Ghostface, because on low MMR killer q is miserable. I had the best and worst experience as solo surv possible.
And I felt the difference later. When became more confident, finally having own moments of looping guy for 5 gen or helping team. I also leveled up as killer. Switch time when I played, regions. Before leaving the game last month my killer q was instant, tho I felt zero desire to play this role because matchmaking at some point was broken and I was constantly having weird matches with new players (doesn't mean I didn't face good players still). On survivor side I was getting a lot of difficult killers yet I was pretty spoiled by Asian teammates and disappointed in EU one. When I started the game - my rate was around 38%, when played on Asian it was solid 50%, on EU it dropped to 43%. I felt this extreme differents on my own within this one year, so don't believe you can be rational in comparing it with experience of 2 years ago.
I simply don’t believe in underpowered state of survs only thanks to some winstreaks. I know potential of players in solo q, and you can win consistently as soon as team picking meta and playing right. At that point you actually can feel game being interesting.
If you want comparassion with win streaks that much - yeah, killer role can have bs numbers. As much as survivors can continuesly having extremely fast matches with gen rush, while killer role can’t continuously finishing every match within 4 minutes. Hens team beat that time record and if you tried to watch their VOD they do it continuously and really fast. This is another extreme, yet some players like to victimize survivor role that much because can’t reach even 40% ER, that refuse to believe in this extreme existence
You can’t balance game around such ridiculous numbers. It will be a tag war. Always. Streak doesn't have any meaning. This is just content farming
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50% of tunnelling when I played surv occurred because killer decided to do so.
50%, it happened more as opportunistic play, where I kinda screwed up with my position, so killer couldn’t ignore me. Or well, I indeed somehow baited them.
There are no really complicated math behind this if you acknowledged that bad play on surv side also participate on tunneling outcome. But let’s be real. It’s a killer decision as well. Just rational one, no matter how people try to present it.
I don’t mind both cases. There were really few matches where I wasn’t able to do anything against tunneling before dropping game. Maybe 2-3 of them, and ofc it was against Blight I simply didn’t understand how to loop. By every other killer I lasted long enough not to feel upset
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035640#Comment_4035640
i have already said other games have been way better than dbd. TCM and f13 were both better than dbd. the failure of both games had nothing to do with stealth. f13 had legal issues, prior to that the game was doing pretty well. TCM failed due to fumbling the dlc, the cosmetics and generally offered no content. part of dbd's success is due to being the only option available regarding asymmetric games, its this or nothing. its not due to the fact its not stealth based at all.
F13 is extremely miserable for killer role. I doubt there are only legal issues here…
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035561#Comment_4035561
As I said, Krasue got nerfed significantly, while Ghoul is still too powerfull for very low skill ceiling. There is no world where Krasue would be at Ghoul lvl. Her scampers last too long, so they are truly pointless, her mobility is the only powerfull aspect of her kit.
She will stomp solo q still more likely. But. Average solo q.
Bodyblock her to protect infected survivor, and she becomes so harmless. I played against her even on her strongest period, and it was really stressful when no one help you. But I had match when player on her felt so miserable just by constant bodyblocking, first time I felt I am bullying someone in this game.
And that’s so ironic… so sfw more likely gonna feel better already having advantages, while solo suffering by default
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@Skeleton23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035785#Comment_4035785
Nope im fully on switch. I only have a switch and I am planning on getting more platforms but for now its just the switch
Can you play with players from different platforms? If yes, can you feel the difference between your gameplay and their?
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@Gandor said:
You just posted your personal stats and call it "gospel" (proof). The thing is by definition anecdotal. The only thing it proves is, that you are better survivor then killer.
But I have actual stats for you. Best killer fell short of 2000 kill streak on blight. Best killer on freaking ONRIO got to I think 200 if I remember right. Best soloQ survivor? After years of trying. He's somewhere around 42 escapes in a row (and quite a number of those games were killer's win AND it included heavy "rat" playing).
The truth is, the game is killer sided by default so long, as players on both sides don't change that fact. Sure if you pick nurse in beginner MMR or say legion in competitive, the game is survivor sided. Sure if you take 4man SWF that scrims together daily with busted build vs trapper, the game is survivor sided. But if you take random median game, it's absolutely killer sided - because "killer fantasy" is more then survivor's fair chance to escape according to devs
One more thing. Competitive play and pubs are so different, that they can be a different game altogether… I never saw competitive where 4man SWF could not communicate and never played a game together. VERY DIFFERENT to actual pub
Streaks are meaningless. They are only about how lucky in a row you can get in the game. Momo wouldn’t have same streak if suddenly ending up on Asian servers for example, as much as Willie ending up in SA for instance.
IMHO, what’s the point of streaks, when the majority of players refuse to pick meta that always was a solution of tunneling, slowdown or slug being unbalanced? You aren’t playing with actual potential or balance this game has, while yourself on streaks consciously bringing meta or very sophisticated playstyle. And if you see how such people losing this streaks, it’s happening by the silliest reasons possible, like hit not being validated or RNG being too inconvenient. Invictus lost to damn Legion passing through Nurse, Ghoul and Blight waves.
Hens literally played survivor solo q recently and build up 75% escape TEAM rate without any comms. And I’m pretty sure many people would use “him being lucky during this 50 games” argument, at the same time hysterically pointing on some killer streak. Where the truth both kinda lucky.This game is meta and macro sided. And if one survivor in team doesn’t understand the value of meta, you are doomed to lose in specific circumstances. Especially when killer against you embrace this meta play. And to fix this you must nerf killers to oblivion to make such play forgetful. You can’t balance game around casual survivors players because game will return to it’s ridiculous release state. And well… survivors are survivors. Name of the game literally hinting you likely gonna lose playing this role, other question how make it feel actually dependent on you and not random to bring feelings of unfairness.
If you wish to balance game around people loving to run meme builds and barely progressing, you would more likely still gonna get op killers and miserable solo. Because currently there are no reason for average survivor learn how to loop or improve in macro, while killers get cheesy rates thanks to that and also barely improving.
And ofc it’s gonna be easier to blame others in your fails. Yeah sure, it’s always gen rush and tunnelling being so unfair and not u refusing pick proper perks,
and game having meaningful mmr. It’s always your killrate and escape rates being a definition of average player. It’s always me trying my best when some L just cheese. Sure. Yeah. But when other claim same? Oh no, here the problem…Survivors indeed harder role by winning. But they have extreme compensations in face of sfwing or abundance of second chances. You can’t give them simple games without completely removing such compensations. And BHVR will never try to ruin sfw advantage.
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Nintendo, unusual… does it feel somehow “different”? Especially killer like Unknown. If you play with cross platform can u feel difference between players like you on other device?
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Stop game being about kills maybe. There are always gonna be the guy who gonna die first. Before people considered tunneling as kill on third hook, now it’s expanding and some people define line on 6th one. Remove tunneling, X things will replace it. Or we start calling tunneling sth else.
Or another solution. Stop game being assymetrical to prevent people complaining on meta caused by assymetry.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4035702#Comment_4035702
Avoiding flashlights is interactive, though? Both players are actively playing a positioning game where the survivor's trying to get the angle to save and the killer's trying to deny it.
It's not the most crazy interesting interaction in the game, but it is interaction.I'm also not trying to discourage the use of it. I want it to be more useful than it currently is, hence the first change.
No, it’s not. Point of flashlight use is catching timing where killers literally stuck in animation. There are difference between playing around something you can’t actually dodge or direct counter-interaction. If response on micro play is macro decisions, it’s people trying to use brain, not micro supposing interactivity. Flashlight design on its own is pretty poor and basically means “just deal with it”. For survivors defending I always preferred actual abilities and classes that propose mechanical play, but we don’t have it in DBD (for me tbh this thing already would solve any balance complaints). That’s why I barely used flashlight myself - and never used lightborn after hitting first 100 hours. Inconsistency, farming related… nuh
If talking about “just look at the wall, no issue” as “interaction”, same you can say to lightborn complaints. Ignore the perk and play the main gameplay . If want to play for saves - pallets is still a thing, or u can simply.. well… gen rush guy who wasted whole slot on niche counterplay. Every perk beside actual time saving on killer side is pretty ineffective for match result and you can easily play around it without harsh consequences.
Spirit fury and enduring is damn annoying for example, but after dealing with it once constant predrop and greed of unsafe tiles is literally making whole build useless. For me the whole game is about this. Uninteractive micro being outplayed by macro decisions. That’s why macro play is the best one no matter side you are playing, leading to the point of being “cheesy” and “unbalanced” strategy -
Despite playing serious and “unfun”, I didn’t hostage survivors, killers, or BMed them. There are was no interest for me slugging until bleed out for mock, ego tunneling, dancing on exit gates or whatever is actually goes as intention “oh, you were toxic to me, there u are”. Because A) easy to misread behaviour B) I play “nasty” for soulless efficiency only because idc.
Personally I didn’t mind rage bait. If it was a smart one, I accepted the call usually and didn’t mind focusing entirely on players who seemed strong enough. Unfortunately some players aren’t ready to this, because they expect killer being agressive in response, not just playing the game in usual tempo. I mean, I can taunt killers sometimes by taking free hits or aura farming after loop myself. If they downed me within few seconds later - pin of shame for me and silent acceptance xd. For such case I ran DS if killer takes message too seriously. Made me better at looping a little
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Flashlights and stuns themselves as much uninteractice for killer players as Lightborn for survivor players. As much as many different stuff in the game, if being honest.
The literal concept of catching timings where other player can’t do anything mechanically to avoid hook denial in theory sounds as poor as person taking whole slot to avoid this. Even if it takes some efforts from survivors to do this - doesn’t cancel the fact of item itself being uninteractive for other side. And you can claim the same about everything in this game.
It’s pretty rhetorical justifying changes only based around interaction. Because using this logic, you need to remove much more than Lightborn only from this game. Aka Deadlock, Background Player, Power Struggle, Coup and many other perks that requires nothing.
And if being honest - how actually important “flashlight mechanic” in global scope? Does it prevents a whole ability to stun killers? No. Does it prevent saboing? Not really. So “killing the whole gameplay” is only about the use of one item. Which is not even detrimental for match results.Some mechanics in the game simply have to be reactive and not proactive. And considering this perk preferable among casual killer players idk why discourage the usage of already narrow pool of killer perks is “healthy decision”.
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No?
Survivors already have repair speed penalty. Gen rush issue related with assymetry format and stacking of boosts through perks only.People sitting on same gen without urgency and prove thyself is actually a poor play.
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People embraced dash killers too much and devs gifted something extreme.
It’s a mix of Wesker and Legion on steroids. But I personally believe despite his poor design he is bearable to play against if not animation and dash bugs. He just embraces the worst in this game everyone hate as well - collision issues.
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As person who use higher DPI myself but on Executioner I don’t find it cheating? Because as more you are used to the killer, more you playing just on default with max sensitivity within game settings.
If person constantly plays with changed DPI they are more likely harming themselves.
It’s not shaders, they aren’t providing advantage by default because player have to learn to adapt to specific sensitivity. This is as same as FOV users who push their settings on max.
Otherwise you can call crouchtech, CG tech, hugtech and flicks cheating simply because they are exist in the game. While they are being the only way to express some game sense because of primitive mechanics -
I would like all killers having their own lunge length depends on their weapon and power type, as well as just fixing client priority on servers and textures on maps.
The perfect world where Blight stick does have smaller hit box, while Billy crouchtech fixed well… by making his hitbox actually feel like chainsaw.
Lunge killers having more kind of projection hit box, that “fade down” at the end of animation…
This tbh can add some variability to killer and giving a new breath to M1 killers for example :/ While you can use this mechanic as a natural way to tune down strong killers and rather encourage actual ability usage…
About Krasue: I think she is doomed either being miserable or broken. As well as Ghoul. Their core design extremely cheap and poor.
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Do we actually have real proofs that x side leaving game more likely? Beside personal experience and dbd q that actually talks only about time zones and regional differences
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034553#Comment_4034553
Puffalope is very minor in SA. Most of Brazilian DBD players don't know his channel; TBH, i myself don't even consider him a SA streamer since he speaks english and don't have any content in portuguese or spanish, even if he lives here. SouzalSoul, Mandy Mess and Procyonico are much more known than him in SA.
About the OP
Otz its the biggest one. He has the largest audience and is the most known. But thinking the devs "follow" some content creators is silly. Otz had a plentora of good ideas that were ignored by BHVR.
Some members of this forums have been "accusing" creators of killing/scrapping the anti-tunnel update, but we need to remember the outrage against the 9.2.0 and 9.3.0 update were absurd in all of their socials. The devs don't need content creators to take their decisions and judging by the recent updates they aren't even listening to their consultants. Although i heavily disagree with some opinions of Otz, Scott, Tru3 and others i understand they aren't a part of the devs team and shouldn't be account responsible for the game balance or other development team decisions.
Oh yeah, I’m really bad at knowing anything about SA community. Only heard there are really a lot of try hard killer players. If there are English friendly, I would like to know about more of them. Currently I watching some Japanese surv players because find their play nostalgic (I started as surv on Asian servers with 150-200 ms, yeah. I played on high ping half of my time in this game), but open to watch sth niche as well.
Watching Otz streams, especially his all perks streak made me feel he is really, really tired from this game. There are no longer consistency in his statements and position, and it feels he even not hiding it.Sometimes he showed something close to frustration when people were demanding his opinion on sth and expected him be more straightforward.
Maybe I’m wrong, but the day when he played two hours of DBD and then switched to Hitman for almost 6 hours, genuinely enjoying it, made me feel his love to this game slowly dying.
Almost every streamer I enjoyed to watch feeling like this. NightFuryo3o is unknown in English CC (no surprise, pretty sure his play would be hated on EU), but me personally was liking him. He is not even hiding disappointment in this game and play only when people ask for.
Puffalope is the only exclusion among creators I watching, because his second channel where he is more genuine made me like solo q survivor a lot. He still enjoy it only because didn’t made 15k hours as other players I watched. I feel he is really underrated among surv based contentI don’t remember ever content creator I was fully agreeing with. There always some extreme point or confused statement that makes you roll your eyes or feel “hell no this is too much”
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@Nazzzak said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/72PIY4UVFE06/1000011406.jpg
Haven't seen queue times this well matched in awhile..
Wow.
Can it be related to sudden drop of players? Online became worse, 40k player compared to usual 60k on Steam
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Reminds me one game. Yamaoka, DeathSlinger
My teammates played really weird. Got DC on 4 gens. Killer didn't patrol gens, so I did almost solo 4 of them with ruin. Caught one free hit, looped a little, and got one hook stage as well.
I did gens. Rescued teammates. And the only moment I started to genuinely rat was when he slugged last teammate after I rescued her, healed her, and did 4th gen with her. She was unlucky and he passed through me, basically falling in stealth.
He really tried for 4k. Camped a little her body, camped hatch, then closed and triggered No Way Out. Did stealth good enough and opened gates thanks to sole survivor. Escaped in front of his face
Oh gosh, killer was really mad just for me doing gens and actually trying to avoid him, unlike my teammates who rush to his face only to loop 5 sec and then DC. Idk what I would feel if my teammates joined him in EGC. Too absurd
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Lack of mechanics from survivor perspective hurting a lot and they start avoid actual objective.
People don't want to improve in looping because ping, pallets, ect, switch time to time, it’s more about how you manage sources and it’s really hard to progress in this.
While constant M1 on gens is deadly boring.
So… ask friends, peak a usable with comms perk, and just mess around. Perks makes it funny to do whatever you want. Gonna live forever for actual anti slug? Nuh, barely see this in solo, but bully squads enjoying this.
I was in sfw for short period, and got really… unusual answer from person who promoted such playstyle in team. She was really aggressive towards killer role and said players deserves such treatment because it's simply satisfying “put power role on their actual place”. Ngl some people do it because have high ego. But majority I think just don’t treat game seriously, because there are no actual reason to escape in trial
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I think it depends on region? For NA I think it’s Tofu and Scott Jund, for SA I know Puffalope only.
In EU clearly Hens and Otz dominating by their content. In Russian casuals watching Mulder and Padlo, niche community followed guys like Meydix, NightFuryo3o and etc., who were more into old comp style. Current one is kinda dead.
It also varies from bias player choose. There are specific creators for killer mains, survivor ones, casual, tryhard, 50/50.
I don’t think devs follow specific bias tho. They simply track biggest content creators and analyse their comment sections. People who believe everything they tell happens didn’t watch them enough, or simply don’t understand the actual concept of the majority consensus.Personally enjoyed watching Otz before his burn out and still watch NightFuryo3o sometimes. And I witnessed many argues within their streams, where a lot people were confused about sharing same opinion or not. Even within their community people was struggling to deal with tribalism xd
I don’t believe in Otz influence on community anymore