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A) If I’m gonna be “kind” to other player, they are no guarantee this “kind” attitude will be returned from other player
B) This is a damn game and you yourself responsible for bringing fun solely for yourself after all
C) Are we following moral codex in game about killers and survivors?
I keep it simple - everything that happened in match shouldn’t go beyond gameplay. So no agressive BM, hostaging, sandbags, threats, offences. If game meant to stun and blind, I’ll do this as survivor. If game meant to kill, I will kill no matter how unfun and fast it would be seemed. It’s a game. Let people choose how to play and that’s all. There are too much noise about how unfun specific stuff is, and it always a perspective of person from other side who didn’t meant to enjoy this from the start. It’s PvP after all.Handicapping by “you should play nice first of all” gonna bring opposite reaction from the person you telling to do so
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@Terror_Misu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034359#Comment_4034359
Just about everything on this forum is an echo chamber. I doubt there was anything 'original' posted in the last year.
Then maybe it’s time for people stop using echo chamber argument on this forum completely. Looks picky every time
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4034353#Comment_4034353
To be fair, this Thread is a big echo chamber and according to OP, there is no room for disagreement here. You just have to tell why you feel the need to tunnel (reality: It is the easiest and most efficient way to play the game), but discussions are not wanted here.
I remember the same but “flip flop” post from different person about perspective of quitting game after being tunneled. It was about 6 options for poll related to quit with emotional statements and 1 neutral.
When I asked why we building such weird polls to support sentiments, I got an answer “I asked specific people, because I interested in their opinion mainly”. Even tho this poll were used in pretty bad argumentation of “look, majority feels different”
No one cared about that, and suddenly this post becomes an echo chamber? Interesting
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@Leon_van_Straken said:
Oh the silent downvoters have begone. Took them quiet some time.
You can’t report people who simply silently disagree with you, and there are no rules to be against specific position
I doubt OP can avoid actual judgement of this post
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I simply didn’t care. I was like this since starting DBD, and more likely it was some people in my company (specifically: survivor sfw I sometimes ended up with, who built an opinion that you never should do this). But I finding doing it conscious choice. I’m not some victim of circumstance of gen rush or creator bias.
I mained killers without mobility, so playing around hooks or gens was my usual play. I also main Executioner, so I’m just fitting to the stereotype of that nasty player.
I don’t hardtunnel every game, or can say no to tunneling by different reasons. For example, I want to practice my M2 and see players are struggling a lot. So, I just play chill if I’m in mood. Or when I got really sweaty team and hardtunnel will trade 4 gens, so I’m more likely gonna lose. I doing it for efficiency, after all.
I never hardtunnelled cause of ego, but liked doing it with actually strong members of the team, because found it interesting to interact with them. They also more chill about it because expecting it, having second chance perks or having fun. But I don’t do it every time.
If not trying to find pattern - because patterns doesn’t actually exist, I just do so, because this is meta and that’s all. Or because team allowed me to do so by healing under hook, bodyblocking with BT, or even accidentally ending up in front of my face.There are too manny different matches, and I behave too different to find reason. The most rational answer just because it brings me benefits. I’m more likely gonna play meta on both sides, handicapping slightly by tier only
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@Callahan9116 said:
You were being greedy, healing under hook. If you had the jill perk or he had a lot of heal perks you'd have been fine. But you cant expect to heal under hook unless Blight is in a chase. He knows 2 people are there, and chances are decent you are trying that.
If being realistic, you never should heal yourself under the hook against blight, even if they are in chase. Him, as well as every killer with mobility, can switch targets within seconds. And he is especially dangerous because his cooldown is broken.
The best advice don’t heal at all under the hook until you don’t have resurgence or we’ll make it and he is in chase. Otherwise this is insta second stage without DS if player wants to tunnel -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033501#Comment_4033501
I didn't say a single gen never got finished the whole match. The matches went on without me. But I wipe whole teams out at 5gens—not just one person—regularly enough. These are all pretty recent:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SPR9OSCQPIQR/199fad6450814-screenshoturl.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9A66UPUQLOF0/199fad85e9c100-screenshoturl.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IC8YPKZUCQ3S/199fad5ce9023-screenshoturl.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/M88V8NG3DXQR/199cfa9cb5823-screenshoturl.jpg
But it seems like your logic is that if I'm the survivor getting tunneled, the killer is a better player, but if I'm the killer doing well, there must be some external factor, like bad players on a server. Not much more I can say if that's how you feel.
Yes, stomping team on 5 gens is never about killer skill or game balance. It's about how this game failed in making wins and proper play meaningful for both sides. Compared to team - killer “played better”. But it doesn't define his actual skill overall.
That's why this game need better matchmaking and tutorials. Survivors generally suffer more if even one member playing worse then others. Based on my experience when I ruined match for my teammates as well. You simply can’t make killer weaker just to give such people more chances, because it will ruin balance AND won’t fix root problem. There are nothing about killer and the way how they play.
There are no “tunneling being so easy” or “I’m such a strong killer, look how I killed them on 5 gens” when you play against players who understand situation, and when RNG working properly. Yes, tunneling is easy if survivors allowing to do so or they got Nurse on Midwich. As well as map pressure. As well as slug. As well as every way to play killer you can imagine. As well as every kind of killer you can imagine, their tier doesn't matter. Because killer is reactive role and difficulty curve of this role strongly depends on their opponents. While as survivor you are more facing “PvE” with efficiency requirement.
Your skill as killer can be defined only when you play against players with meta and actual understanding of gameplay. Not “only meta”, or “only understanding”. And do we like it or not, because devs ultimately failed in giving proper meaning and goals to winning, majority of players embracing farming simulator in matches. Playing against them can’t be a measure of skill, or balance, when the main issue players are’t actually playing the game. My killrate doesn mean I am a strong killer player. Yours as well. It will have meaning only after fixing MMR and wincons. When every player will see an actual motivation to progress in this game, then there are meaning to discuss what kind of strategies is balanced or not, or can we get rid of this for better sake.
Being unable to do a single gen when killer hardly focus on one member is survivor shame in any case. Such players better losing their MMR greatly in reworked system, to stop encouraging such attitude. And they need to see what they losing and why. Nothing difficult in doing single gen when killer care about hook and one surv only. Especially on Badham with zero regression. Doesn't matter how many gens they did after. They wasted you, while you being tunneled was their most valuable resource to win. Because devs can’t explain what resource management is.
Casual players will feel better when BHVR will be able to make a difference between being casual player who wants to play according mechanics loop, and casual player who farms because there are no meaning to play properly. First kind of players deserves better conditions, second one… if they are playing out of system, they simply shouldn't expect to win. And separate them from meta players or making encounters rare, ofc. And I’ll be glad to return to DBD when they’ll make it. Until then I’m on my rest.
I don’t care about strategies. Gen rush, bully squad, whatever. Casual or tryhard. Barely cared. For me bs RNG and overall useless progression were the main reason of this game bringing dissatisfaction. Because there are no fun when player who play to win encounters player who barely value or understand what winning is.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033373#Comment_4033373
You recently got offended when talking to Pulsar about people making assumptions and generalizations about different regions/nationalities yet you did not hesitate to diminish the whole North Americn continent just to insult me.But fun fact, these were mostly EU matches.
It was an assumption that clearly was “if it is”, without claiming “it is like this more likely”. Without “I place a bet” and male a statement about players who are not even present in the discussion at the moment.
3 four minutes long matches in one day with zero gen progression are still too crazy for me. Can’t remember this even in my worst games for last months. At least two gens done if play was terrible and 4-5 if it was good.
Nothing really special about killer play style when your main killers are own teammates.
Even this people who gave me 4k did one gen. I had full regress. When match lasted 4 minutes. If your team can’t manage do at least one gen, this is just a shame that’s not related to killer. So being tunneled at 5 gens is not a hint on killer being low skill or playing bad. Without fanaticism and shifting responsibility for your own game onto someone else
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Some maps are completely lacking of constructions. Some of them build in a way only to be on edges, some inly in middle. And fillers still should be playable, it just should be less of them but with better quality.
I think less people complained on current maps if there were more consistency -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033291#Comment_4033291
Not sure what this implication is supposed to be but here's some more info.
The Ghoul match:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8Z6372RFOU06/screenshot-20251127-192637.jpg
Badham. Hooks were on the street. He either proxyed or hurled himself back to the hook the moment I was unhooked. The Vittorio had zero caution about unhooking me.
The Demo match:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4SA5R5BYRL5Q/screenshot-20251127-192609.jpg
Hawkins. Proxying. The Nea was the only escape in all three of these matches. He'd downed her too, but gave mercy hatch.
The Legion match:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WYWYW54CSEXS/screenshot-20251127-192541.jpg
I was unhooked in the Legion's face repeatedly and they just stood there and waited so they could hit me the moment I got unhooked. So that extra endurance and haste did me zero good. In most cases, I was unhooked almost immediately after being hooked, so that 70 seconds didn’t happen. I was in a duo in these matches. I can't control randoms unhooking me at stupid times. I'd love to never play with another random again, but I'm afraid my weird hours and everyone hating this game has shrunk my friend pool, so I get to deal with both scuzzy killlers and idiot teammates. I'm also not a great looper, something I've never been quiet about admitting.
Out of the 19 matches I played in this session, I was hard tunneled these three times, camped into second stage in the basement twice, and slugged repeatedly by a griefing, aura-reading (and probably smurfing) Nurse who refused to hook anyone until she'd downed all four of us.
So just an overall great time with all these high skill, challenge-loving players I always hear about.
I didn’t ask for what killer were doing. Survivors :/ And if they had 4 minutes each match and each of them ended for you on 5 gens — clearly u all was meant to die in any way. Nothing about killer strategy here. They farmed you and made you go next. If that kind of servers and gameplay on NA are, I’m not surprised you having high KR yourself.
Killers just don’t care about idiotic teammates or your level of looping. As much as survivor doesn’t care about killer pick, or nice 8hooking, or “skillful way of play”
If they want to play, they playing the game. They aren’t charity shop or therapist to help with skill and bad team work/unlucky circumstances from other side. Yeah, maybe that’s something that defines skill and what is so unfun for you. The only thing I see - this killer are actually better, because they did something, and your team nothing. They don’t play along with others’ issues and that’s why you dislike them so much. They don’t solve or compensate troubles BHVR accumulated for years.
This is BHVR duty to show people how to do gens and simply play the game, because there are already bunch of players who doing it without struggle and the only challenge they can get is terrible MMR, maps or nasty tunneler. I literally quit DBD because of my teammates and that BHVR doesn’t work on actual QoL, because worked on some request from one half of players only to be it scrapped by other half. It either was extreme lack of challenge and boredom because killer played nice or got unlucky with MMR, or teams fell as soon as game provides some stressful moment. I barely had actually good matches because of MMR and farming, and that’s not about escapes - I stopped care about this after went on 50%. If that’s what DBD is about- playing along players and game not working, while players who actually played are target of contempt by players who even can’t stand in chase against them (aka - just play the game), I don’t need to understand community or devs.
When sentiment “fix x mentality” will cover part of fandom who loves to farm or have allergy on main objectives, then I stop thinking this CC is doomed to poison own game.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033239#Comment_4033239
I was hard tunneled at 5 gens by three separate killers yesterday. It was clearly how they intended to play as they either never left the hook long or immediately dropped chase the moment I was unhooked. These were their builds:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FI2X8KPBM3KI/screenshot-20251127-165300.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IQBPF4XGRA0F/screenshot-20251127-165234.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AAJMM7ZIZMXM/screenshot-20251127-165206.jpg
Tunneling killers don't care about gen regress. The early tunnel is all they need. The regress is pointless if you have a 3v1 at 5 gens.
I’m impressed that you had at least two states with opportunity to be on hook for 70 seconds each, had total of 30 seconds of endurance, two opportunities for chases, killers had the cheapest and primitive builds possible, two of killers from roaster are primitive and “low tier”, and non of your teammates wasn't able to complete 90 second gen with zero pressure. And all of this three times within one day.
Your teammates either farmed, or something really funny happened here.
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As person, who mained ghostface for really long time…
I was bored. Really a lot of low tiers are simple mechanically primitive. Relies for opponents being bad in M1 chase. Or simply not entertaining.
After this I chose Pyramidhead, and rarely played Billy and Nurse. Simply because I felt rewarded for learning something. And I felt I was falling because mechanically underplayed, not random stuff or design that makes it hard only because put it behind meta.
And despite stupid pallet update and anti tunnel scrap fundamentally nothing happened for killers. Indoor maps still have higher chance of probability and they weren't changed, styptic were killed and syringes were changed, but with easier value gain, especially with sprint burst; you still can play through gen efficiency as survivor and if killer don’t tunnel this mythical “gen pressure” doesn't work when you avoid free hits or loop more than 10 seconds. Not all maps were changed, and survivor gained longer endurance that made endgame harder and provided more time for survivor to reach whatever they want (or simply tank a hit, gain haste, and loop another 10 seconds).
I don't understand what fundamentally changed from killer perspective to suddenly play low tiers, beside pallets which gonna be fixed soon. And nuh, recent official stats showed that the only popular high tier was Ghoul around world. Legion is low tier, Springrap casual mid tier, Huntress and Wesker stay really low if you playing them bad and on their max they never climb higher than A. Non of the killers from high tier had Highest KR as well. No proofs that S tier are the most popular in roaster beside personal impression.
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If one person is dead on 5-4 gens, it’s like killer being in endgame with 3 hooks. No one to blame but themselves or MMR.
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If removing tokens, and make RNG of scourge hook tokens more consistent, disabling this perk if kill happened before 6 hooks doesn't sound bad.
If it still 4 tokens and ######### RNG no one would care about such proposal.
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@まうっす said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033064#Comment_4033064
This is a tunnel? But he killed other survivors along the way? The definition of a tunnel on the NA server is weird.
By logic of this forum, the nicest play is doing 6-8 hooks before first kill.
But if person not on important gen or a threat, I don't know why even chase them.
Play however you want, especially on Asian servers. You still can catch some moment when team doing a mistake, so you can hook easier twice or even tunnel person out.
When I played on Asian servers I prefer to defend 3 gen, trying to focus only on one person only. So I chase others only if I risk to lose 3gen, or if for example I slugged person (when didn't have time for hook), and people left him for a long enough time. So you can hook one person, slug second (if they allowed you, purposefully you gonna lose), and chase and hook other two if they kite you in 3 gen area. This is really stressful but I don't know how to outplay strong players with meta. You need “tunnel” smart. If players are agressive, you can’t easily hook one person three time in a row without losing 4 gens.
Oh. And have you heard about securing stage? You can punish people if they rescuing late. Some killers are good at preventing unhook on last 20 seconds, no need to stay all time close to hook even -
@まうっす said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032995#Comment_4032995
On the Asian server, generator repair speeds are just too fast, so if you relentlessly chase a single survivor, you’ll end up losing the game. The optimal strategy on the Asian server is to mix in some even sacrifices while trying to eliminate the first player as quickly as possible.
In eyes of Western players it’s still considered as tunneling, because you still try to eliminate first person faster, even if you hooked someone between or chased to injure and push from gens. But I understand what do you mean. The kind of tunneling you called weak more commonly called hardtunnel in Western community. Still oppressive and bad for players here because players do more risky play. Don’t drop when needed, greed, weird path to save more pallets. Sometimes they literally gifting you down on 5 gens.
Myself I’m not a big fan of desperate tunneling after 2 gens left. This is unthoughtful, random, non skill related and u have to hope for opponent being worse than you. Somehow it’s the most effective in Western because survivors stop treat you seriously.
It always should be planned from the start and during eliminating first person you interrupt people on gens. Tunneling is easy only when it’s gifted you on 5 gens. If not you have to chase others to slug/injure/hook/push from gens to win time for killing first person. But majority of Western players still gonna call such style tunneling, believe me. Faced with it myself.
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@まうっす said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032895#Comment_4032895
On the Asian server, tunneling is considered a weak tactic. It's easy to counter tunneling. All you have to do is repair a generator while one survivor is under attack. From the perspective of Asian server players, I don't understand why North American server players get so upset about tunneling.
On World Cap Asian teams from survivor side fell really hard when faced with tunneling and perk restrictions from survivor at the same time. It seems it’s harder because they didn’t train well to play without decisive strike or dead hard.
When I played on Korean and Japanese servers I noticed it’s really hard to get first hook. 2-3 gens the only you have, when survivors constantly using best perks. Is it the reason you find tunneling unattractive? -
@Ghost77 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4032739#Comment_4032739
I showed all the information, not just 3 time zones, smart
Do you understand what I mean by time zones?
Most of countries you showed with high wait time are off-pick. Check the same website when it’s gonna be 20:00-24:00 on specific countries. I showed list of countries who are on peak hours, when majority actually playing the game. And it’s showing the survivor queue is more busy.London server opened rn and it’s on peak, killer queue time is instant. U just manipulating with numbers, and people who lack of mental gymnastic don’t understand why it’s higher killer q time in USA for example, when it’s literally 4 pm and majority of people still on their work or study. Of course it’s gonna be a shortage of role that requires 4 people at the same time.
Frankfurt and London are literally one of the biggest server that connects CIS, Middle East, Africa, and EU. If during peak hours everything is alright with queue on killer side, then you are simply lying that there are shortage of survivor players.
Wow. 6 vs 7. Almost the same. Considering it’s literally 13:47 in Oregon I’m not surprised it struggle with q time.
Just wait 4-6 hours and it’s gonna flip to opposite.(Exit: here is your hours after)
Seems this really hurts someone's eyes when you can’t feel special playing dbd during myphical shortage of surv players
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@Ghost77 said:
The killers must be having fun with their long queue times. But soon a killer-main streamer will come out crying, and the developers will console them by nerfing survivors even more.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PCQF9TNZ0FC3/img-20251125-wa0000.jpg
The queue time priority depends on pick hours. As soon as it hits evening when more people can play with friend, killer and survivor queue switching sides
It always been like this. Learning about time zones is really beneficial if you don’t want to look ignoramus
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Legendary survivors also usually have the most annoying voice dub I ever heard.
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Isn’t it better just provide a limit for repair bonus?
Instead of nerfing perks, or completely forbidding them to stack, what about just make a max cap you can reach to prevent ridiculous numbers?My only “gen build” when I brought toolbox is having dejavu, hyperfocus, troubleshooter/build to last, fogwise/sprint burst. I don’t want hyperfocus be nerfed just because sfw stack it with 4 BNPs, stake out, and playing engineer simulator. Just making the extreme side of such builds useless already solving every issue you can have with generators.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I wont, personally. survs weaponize every patch that swings in their favour i dont see a problem with killers having fun for a little while knowing that this change is 100% going to be further adjusted.
I don’t appreciate such behaviour at all, yet I’m afraid many players are doing like this.
The same behaviour as from people who were claiming previous pallet density were right choice, went pretty insignificant and didn’t bring benefits.
“Anyway they gonna slaughter this”
Now as soon as coin flipped to other side they gonna speak completely different even not realising double standard.
Just proves devs never should make updates in the way one side only find “fun”/“unfun”. Such people shouldn’t be listened in advance because the only thing such asking brings is flip flopping game being miserable for someone.
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It was a bad idea to revert them back, because at that state it still had many problems for both sides.
They fixed survivor issues related to maps in pallet density update. The best decision was just looking at RNG logic and adjust every map in specific way.
But they overkilled it. Because this community tends to be over emotional with anything, while devs still can’t build the way to filter feedback properly. I’m not surprised tho since they did absolutely same absurd with pallet density first time, Legion from 2vs8, SM, anti tunnel/slug and fog vials.Honestly, I feel developers are burn out. Maybe such a terrible quality goes from roots of community never being satisfied, but I just can’t find the reason to give a vote for Labour of Love to somehow motivate them. Pretty sure others as well.
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I changed the name of post because decided to include list of maps that were specifically nerfed/ stayed unattached.
“Problemacy” of every map yet is defined by me and more about being subjective opinion, rather than guaranteed truth.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031958#Comment_4031958
50/50 IS skill though. God pallets are not skill, you just drop the pallet and the killer must break it. A 50/50 creates an interaction, a potential mindgame, a situation where one player is able to actually use skill to outplay the other.
This is why to me, the best tile in the game, is the TL wall. It is a true 50/50 you can't "check spot" it. You have to mindgame your opponent and determine what you think the other is going to do, and punish that decision with yours. And the best part? Its not even done via a pallet, which means its a permanent structure that is always available.
I think everyone would agree that the most fair thing instead of random mess is making tiles around generators more unsafe, and gradually distribute amount of safe tiles around whole area. So only one generator, MAYBE two (e.g. gen in main and in shack) can be safe, while everything else supposed to be more dangerous to discourage constant hold of M1 until last moment. God pallets need to be in game, but with making them always guaranteed in specific places and having a huge distance between each other. We need something that encourage resource management, if want players less complain on tunneling and genrush issue.
The issue of previous update was insane amount of resources non ######### player knew how to use properly. But now we literally have some maps with the quality of Haddonfield before density change. Even worse tbh, because Haddonfield’s houses are hostile to many killers ability designs.
New maps are genuinely harmful for new players now. If you are new to the game you don’t even understand what’s wrong. For experienced players who prefer actual play rather than braindead rely on luck and greed (or insta predrop) new update also gonna spoil experience.Community should demand less RNG in terms of maps. Make it more static and force people to learn their logic is the best thing you can do. Everything else encourage mediocre gameplay only. Every map need more “anchor points” with guaranteed spawns, maybe with 2-3 iterations. System shouldn’t make it unique every time.
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@ImWinston said:
- 70% of the new pallets are the classic 50/50. So goodbye to skill (on the part of the killer and survivor) and just a celebration of randomness. Some people talk about "dead zones", but honestly I haven't noticed any in my games.
I don’t find it 50/50 even. During 50/50 you still have time for micro reactions. Here it’s just an M1 killer heaven.
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The legendary 2vs8 pallet also went to live on Swamp!
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Guys.
Like. They made HADDONFIELD worse.
You can hit through loops. I’m not a big fan of being emotional, but I can’t describe it any other way than 😭
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@Pulsar said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WFD1PXSL00RT/1000000099.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IDP9V9B4ROHD/1000000098.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SIYNBKH3TG73/1000000097.png
One pallet in a 32m radius, and it's a rock filler.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031841#Comment_4031841
You know what. I’m glad I uninstalled.
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I watched a stream and still watching, but already seen new generations on Autoheaven.
New tiles are genuinely bad. Idk why they give something broken, only to make it 100 times more miserable later. At first they made killer feel bad, now survivors. Wow.By the way. They aren’t changed loops only. Map’s tiles are different completely. They cut some area and added more on other side.
Lighting is broken as well. -
@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031836#Comment_4031836
i dont have the update downloaded since im on xbox but from streams ive been watching along with posts on twitter, a lot of filler got massively nerfed. here’s a picture i found on twitter.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X5BMNASPGPA9/img-5481.jpeg
once i get the update, ill go in customs to get more screenshots. if you have the update downloaded, play on the new autohaven and take a look at the new fillers on there- specifically the truck and dumpster loops.
Can you bring WOO to custom and show density + loops u claim became weaker?
Edit: No need anymore I already witnessed BHVR crime
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031759#Comment_4031759
dont get me wrong, it seems stupid to have basically perm aura reading on a survivor, but to me only really the iridescent addons have been "unique" the rest are mostly flavor text and general stats. and debuffs.
tho I do perma run object of obsession
Breaks free is important condition.
Cenobite M1 killer. The only possible advantage killer can get if survivor in construction and killer behind it. So TL/4wall probably.
Yet it will bring benefits only if survivor can’t checkspot killer. And don’t have pallet just to drop.
Since chain is breaked, no mindgames even. This add-on objectively bad -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031644#Comment_4031644
Here's the thing though, i did not slug. I downed her, broke the pallet between us, and walked up to her. I may have looked around for a possible flashlight save for a few seconds. After the match, i checked the match history from stats tracker and found that she had unbreakable. I was not slugging. This is not just an "anti-slug" perk right now. It definitely is a problematic perk but people don't use it.
I feel the golden balance will be 40%.
But honestly, I just think they need forbid stacking effects on everything except healing and provide serious limitations. They tried to do it with haste, but didn’t have enough courage
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031623#Comment_4031623
Ok. Let's say that someone falls under pallet with power struggle flip flop that is combo existing for 5 years in the same form and is by far way better than conviction, because you get distance, stun and don't automatically go down. They tweaked so it no longer activates on self heal which is the only change it needed. It's very good anti-slugging perk. I count 25 % of recovery progress is about 12s? Which should be enough time to break the pallet and pick up. Might it be 40 % instead? Maybe, but it's not the problematic perk atm.
If u assume this combo, which is not really hard, u just let survivor be slugged. He won’t relocate himself so it’s easier for teammate pick them up, he won’s steal your chase by extending it. Despite power struggle being annoying, it’s much more situational perk.
By my own example — just because me alone was running conviction first time in my life (without soul guard, plot twist and anything else), I was a pain in Sadako *** and player stopped to slug to build condemn. She was forced start to pick up everyone, and played much more stressful match just because I alone had antislug perk. She had 3 moments to quickly finish match and I spoiled them, so she went to agro tunnel (and unfortunately it let her win on last 99% gen. But match was still epic tho, I played DBD for them)And it was green conviction in solo q without anything.
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Remember time when I said this perk is absurdic and people tried to justify it just because you need other perks to activate it. People will find excuse for everything if it’s their toy, but will complain on some slowdown because how dare you not letting them do objective.
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This torment used for cages only, and survivors can avoid torment until killer really force it. Person still need to “hook” you twice and mori still requires him to catch, so why you even need to get rid of it ? When you already have really easy way to cleanse? Just be uncaged or uncage person.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031500#Comment_4031500
They also exclude DC from killer side, AFK, go next and farming matches according their words
Do you have a reference for this? I'd like to know more about that. I'm not even sure how they'd identify some of those things.
I'd also say killer DCs are way less common. I've probably had 5 in my last 100 survivor matches, and one I recall didn't seem intentional, probably an internet problem, because they were on a winning trajectory. And, as I stated, 17% of my killer matches had survivor DCs in them.
I understand why they exclude DCes, because from sportsmanlike behaviour this is considered griefing in any normal game and match overall shouldn't be counted
Sometimes, but I've been in many matches where a survivor on death hook gets downed and immediately DCs out of anger. They were going to die anyway, and nothing in the match was changed, yet now it's been thrown out.
If it turns out survs ER even lower, then you fundamentally need reconsider mmr conditions and way of data gathering. Because you can’t make any rational conclusion over bs that's not working.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if true ERs are 30-35% and KRs are 65-70%. The killer is the selling role of this game. They have to keep them happy. I know the forum isn't the best example of average players, but when people post their stats here, almost all are well above the 60%. Many are in the 75-90% range. Even my overall KR is above the 60% and I'm not good at all, and I also give hatches and mercy. So it's hard for me to believe that killers are sitting at 60%. Meanwhile, people post their inflated survivor stats to make people shut up about soloq being hard. And it's not like they can't fix it. Just adjust abandons to register as losses. Show us the real numbers so we have something to go off of.
They had 9 years for figuring out what to do and the best idea was breaking MMR, fundamentally making any data unworthy.
Well, there's a rework coming, God help us. It'll probably just get worse. People liked the rank system. They need to reconsider something similar.
Do you have a reference for this? I'd like to know more about that. I'm not even sure how they'd identify some of those things.
I barely remember, but as I know it wasn’t on forum and was related with question of why SM had top KR.
Everything else you told for me are just a bias I won’t take seriously. Don’t even want to contribute to another “killer took everything, trying to shut up people” take when I clearly said it’s just a consequence of terrible matchmaking. My position is pretty clear here. This bs speculations not for me.
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If people do 4 DC on 5 gens this match is basically go as “farming” one. No point to count it to KR of killer when matched turns to custom. The only issue such games go as + to survivors.
I’m still confused why you so aggressively insist abandon inflates KR when your own post proving otherwise. And you have zero proofs of BHVR secret numbers being specific one. Alongside with post of them “extracting DC rates” they made few other announcement, like them being able to make a difference between farming match and actual one.
There are unclarity on what happening in their internal data, and nothing can support sentiment that stats are inflated in Killer favour. The only proofs we have now is not working MMR that inflating KR through trash matchmaking. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031470#Comment_4031470
I'm guessing it looks different on the killer end compared to the survivor end, even for the same matches. All survivor abandons now show with the escape icon on match history for me. The DCs have the DC image and a 0 score.
I remember I had “glitchy” results that showed me I escaped instead of abandon after their update from surv POV. But since I don't abandon a lot and had like 30 games after this match was basically lost.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031456#Comment_4031456
People randomly see abandones as escapes
I was tracking this too but stopped because the stat page updated halfway through my recording period and this aspect changed. Previously, if there were mutiple abandons, one would show with the escape symbol and the others with the DC symbol. When they updated it recently, they now all show as escapes. I actually caught a match like that during the update that I'd happened to screenshot prior.
Previously:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4UMGTKY3OBBC/screenshot-20251108-020852.jpg
After the update:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/N0UGKC1NSLO3/screenshot-20251108-020906.jpg
This was a 4K. So all abandons now show as escapes.
Surprisingly, my stats still show abandon as dc?
here abandons mark as escapes, dc as dc
yet my own result is pictured as dc, when I abandoned
Stats are broken to such state, that for example they showed me escaped Leon instead of DCed (not abandon)
The funny stuff I don’t remember Leon during this match. It supposed to be David.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031421#Comment_4031421
What it equals out to is that personal killer stats are correct and don't care about opponents DCs or abandons, but survivor stats are inflated if the survivors use the abandon, and most seem to. I would assume killer stats could potentially be messed up with the abandon option as well, but who ever uses it as killer?
The only innaccuracy seems to be the server disconnects. The game should be able to see a game with 00:00 minutes where everyone had 0 points and just delete it, but it doesn't. Those counted like 4Es for me. The matches I DCed in also counted as 4Es, as they should, but I recall people saying they had a different outcome when DCing as survivor.
As for MMR, it would be nice to get more clarification. If we take this mod comment as it is, a survivor abandoning does indeed keep their MMR and the killer who killed them gains none. I imagine most survivors aren't doing it on purpose and aren't even thinking about their MMR. They just think it's a way to get to the lobby faster, which is all it should be but clearly isn't.
I would assume killer stats could potentially be messed up with the abandon option as well, but who ever uses it as killer
It doesn't really work because you yourself proved rn killer stats are correct. While survivors one are actually inflated, according posts of some people regard this topic. As I remember @BorisDDAA was one of them? While on stats devs provided it was clear that they are matching to each other. Math not doing math as supposed to.
It just proved that BHVR using other tool when sharing stats with us, and that as it was said by mod, abandoning isn't tracked for survivor MMR, so the great fanbase basically unconsciously smurfing
I assume… this website is just broken. When I did 100 games as Executioner and was recording stats, noticed that the time of match is different from website claims on 10-30 seconds. Old players complaining stats are not correct. People randomly see abandones as escapes, but this is inconsistent. I checked myself and see no logic beside ones.
- If whole team abandons before any survivor dying in game, all of them will be marked as escaped, but killer keep status of merciless killer (so 4k counted and go for killer’s stats). But you also can not getting this status, and actually it will count as loss. There are zero consistency here and it's clearly a bug.
- If whole team abandons when someone is already dead, last survivor has higher chance to be marked as escaped.
- Killer stats seems to be affected only when whole team abandons, record glitches, and mark them as escaped even as bots.
- Killer stats guarantee affected if you abandon yourself, even after hooking everyone or slugged, until someone not dead.
I gave up on making post myself because this bs actually doesn't have pattern. The only stuff I noticed myself - Killer KR is more clear than ER, while survivor info from recent matches more clear then killer’s one.
I don’t mean it's survivors fault when said about smurfing. No, it’s clearly devs decision, majority even doesn't know this so no reason to blame community. But it just makes it clear that survivors are playing with highly inflated MMR. A huge part of frustration can simply exist because they matched with people of braces they don’t belong to. Add broad MMR braces, filler lobbies, and game doomed to have worst matchmaking possible. It's not a talk about “sweats”. It’s a talk about “high MMR” argument is being trash, and level of difficulty can be defined by time and region only. Killers might have high KR only because they matched with players level lower.
It also can be a part of reason that influence on queues. By my own experience — the longer killer queues I got was on new killers or when I firstly started to play. On executioner, for example, even during 1 vs 8 my 1 vs 4 matches were almost instant.
I don't want to use illegal methods to figure out my MMR. I tried to request JSON from BHVR to calculate it myself but support is so terrible I decided I don't need this. But after winter break maybe I’ll try ask them again, to compare my surv and killer MMR. As 50/50 player it should tell me a lot.
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@FerrousFacade said:
Oooh, I had considered they abandoned but the mention of leaving made me assume this was a last straw gen rush before uninstall. On the survivor side abandoning does sometimes show as you escaping, its just inconsistent about it.
If I uninstalled because of gen rush I did it in first month, XD. Like, for at least 100+ ping at first I had to play with Asians. Then I played with Germans and Russians. Before leaving I had pretty simple games, British servers are chill, console players aren't tryharding usually.
I rarely saw actual gen rush, most of the time killers complaining on it just wasting their time in sake of chase of person who they didn't hook to play nice man. So people ignore injured guy who is going to finish important gen later. It's like with tunneling. People complaining on facing with “unfairness” when themselves literally forgiving mistakes of other side, doing mistakes themselves. Actual gen rush is as rare as actual hard tunnel by my experience, so I don’t complain about either of them.
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I still don't get it. The statistics you showed are identical to the website's. So, the numbers for the killer are strictly representative, and the only thing that comes out is that the survivors are manipulating the MMR by abandoning and essentially continue playing against the same level of killers, against whom they are guaranteed to lose?
In this case, even if BHVR displays site statistics, in terms of killers it remains accurate, except for isolated miscalculations, but it seriously affects the MMR system, where players continue to remain at a level that does not belong to them.
This 17% didn't seemed to be lost. Only in aspect of MMR. So the only stuff this 5% people do is inflating their surv stats and breaking matchmaking.
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@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031129#Comment_4031129
Each individual match is anecdotal at best and says little about your overall performance as killer or survivor. I do agree a four minute match as killer sucks and shouldn't be possible. However, matchmaking is trash, as we have noted. Did you get paired with survivors better than you (trash matchmaking/skill issue) or is it really just gen speeds? I'm not judging either way, I'm not a good killer and wouldn't claim to be one.
If it is gen speeds I don't think most killers would be OK with the solutions needed to solve that and those things do include a nerf to tunneling. Gen speed needs to be balanced against the strongest things a killer can do, whatever that may be at the time, and right now its getting a survivor out of the game as fast as possible while running full slowdown on a high tier killer. If you just increase gen speed all you will have done is make tunneling and camping stronger. If you introduce incentives to not tunnel that are stronger than tunneling, gens would need to be made FASTER to compete against whatever this new thing is.
Basically everyone agrees the S tiers need a nerf and making tunneling harder/punishing tunneling is a bigger nerf to the S tier than anyone else. If you get tunneled out by a trapper, that is a skill issue on the survivor, if you can't tunnel someone out fast as blight or nurse, that is a skill issue on the killer. If either of the PTBs had gone live, with or without adjustments, we likely would have seen gens slowed down. How long that might take would be annoying but it would happen, especially if kill rates dropped.
If killers ever want to feel like running a full/near full slowdown build isn't required then BHVR would need to delete every gen slowdown perk (and every gen speed up item and perks) from the game or limit the number anyone can take in a build (either way with updates to gen speeds to balance). Otherwise gens will continue to need to be balanced around the possibility of a killer bringing a full slowdown build.
I would personally be in favor of altering gen speeds/map setup based on killer rather than trying to nerf/buff most killers in the game but BHVR seems to want there to be low tier and high tier killers. Couldn't tell you why but they seem to want it and it leaves us with this mess.
Just to say - my screenshot wasnt a complain on genrush. I accept this as a part of game. People didnt escape actually - it was 4k within 4 minutes, yet their abandon were defined as escapes.
About other stuff.
Because devs didnt have courage provide decent slowdown and antitunnel at the same time, CC went against this. Partially its fault of people who went against auto regress for fresh hooks when many people asked for this, because pop wasnt enough. Now thanks to their stubborness and bias, people dont have anything. Yes. I see a blame not only in content creators. People who are oblivious in their ego to defend first PTB iteration "with slight tweaks" are in equal charge.We all know BHVR's "later" really well. So no "probably its gonna be slowdown later, we need testing it". T for test. Can't provide both stuff at the same time for same PTB, gonna activate tribalistic hysteria in community.
Now, it's pretty clear they aren't gonna change meta in such fundamental way. Because game are too complex to put agency on specific side and remark tunneling or genrush as someone only responsibility, how they did it in PTB. You can't fundamentally change genrush and tunneling meta - therefore shouldn't. This meta forced by assym format of the game and I always claimed this. PTB tried to touch fundamental aspect of this and failed, here we are. It's like Legion, SM, Nurse or Ghoul - u can't change them to satisfy sentiment. And their main issue is in base of their play. Their core design was problematic.
I still wait for them precisely adjust specific stuff, like S tiers or specific perks. Fundamentally I expect only map and MMR changes alongside with technical fixes. I know people are overupset or overhyped with cancel of PTB, but for me personally? I did expect this in some way. We love to say "but majority hates tunneling", but it turns out BHVR got enough data to realise pushing PTBs to live gonna make them lose money to the extent they don't want to see. And people who are saying about loud minority that broke their dreams are just afraid to see the reality where their opinion is not unanimously valid one. The actual truth there are no majority in this term.
As soon as you are gonna give incentive for actual improvement, fix bugs and provide decent MMR game gonna be more satisfying . Now this game encourages crying and farming more. I uninstalled because majority of people I matched with didn't want to play game and called farming "casuality". Game itself also didn't incentivised enough to be better as player, so I just decided to take a rest. -
@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4031094#Comment_4031094
Another 20 hour survivor or are those just last 30 days? Do neither of you realize there is an overall escape rate? Who you play as on the survivor side is meaningless. At 20 hours you could be playing against baby killers, people returning to the game after a break, or complete random since I agree that matchmaking is trash.
I do perfectly fine on survivor and nowhere here do I complain about anything. Since you trust the stats website so much here is mine. I am simply trying to point out that the stats site is trash, it inflates escape rates and probably isn't accurately reflecting kill rates either.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K3Z4VTYK2O4H/7be1fa267d-c918-4fc3-b22e-c8f044bedcd2-7d.png
Last 30 days. My all time is like… over thousand of matches? If not counting events. its not reaally hard to realise it, cause I showed around 8 games only within 24 hours. People who barely play surv have long pauses between matches usually.
Cheryl is like a brand example of what I had when just started the game. Everyone else are just chill evenings with slow improvement. I barely DCed, and rarely abandon, so unironically finding my stats clean. Yes DCing inflating stats and I am up to wait for them fixing this bs.
But until then, stat page is the only thing people can use for showing their position. So is it worthy blaming in advance, or its better just asking person showing recent game stats without blurring it? Usually they are a good reflection of reality, tho can't say same about killer games.
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@FerrousFacade said:
Multiple problems with the stats you show. The biggest of which is you can just go in and make the page say whatever you want and then screenshot it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZRGO8X5WXWJ5/7b8ee553d6-23d7-45c6-900c-82587fda3be8-7d.png
How many times did you escape via hatch? Do you just hide the match out for hatch and leave your teammates to die? How often in those escape streaks did the survivor escape via hatch rather than the door? Did they manage to get that escape streak to 200+?
Abandon any matches? Those are ignored like DCs.
Are people genuinely cant get concept some are just playing the game and don't struggle as average survivor who people try to victimise?
I don't know about OP. But personally having between 45-55% being solo only I can have really different kind of games. I was curious and even checked my last games before uninstalled.
Some tie because all people played match normally (tho many questions to Steeve)
Some demolish because killer struggled
Some games where people not even want to try (thats why I have sole survivor)
Some games where I was hardtunneled, yet killer spend 5 gens on me, went to tilt, skipped me, and killed random person on endgame.
Some games with one crybaby who Dced on 5 gens and two people who seeing ruin barely did any gens, so you actually stealth for hatch (and manage going through gates when killer have no way out)
Wow. Another crybaby who tried to heal under hook against sweaty Blight, and DCed when saw person not following rule book. It actually could be the win - killer tried to tunnel me, after David, realised he losing it and were forced to slug everyone on last 80% gen. If not a bot and bad MMR who knows …. :/
Sometimes you are just a loser who are getting hardtunneled, killer spend over 4 minutes on you, but your teammates have allergy on gens.
Or it is killer losing his mind here.
DBD can be really different if you don't DC seeing slight inconvinience and not just mid player trying hide huge skill issue by casual play. I am myself pretty casual player who doesnt have more than 400h on surv, because played as 50/50 player. And since MMR is random and I had many moments of playing against p100 5k+ hours Blights, Nurses, and whatever people love to complain on, I doubt its gonna be any different. Only upped my rate more likely, improving in chases. When I played on Asia it was unironically higher than 60%, last months I played on EU.
People with rate above 40 aren't some magical animal or rats. Sometimes they just playing the game. And they arent sweats who going spoil your mood.
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@Pulsar said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ihAb0m2jM
One of the faster gen completions I've seen, around twenty seconds or so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMqolzEeHjg
BM and overconfidence is a weakness few exploit.
BM is always something so common for generating good moments.
Sadly I deleted really a lot of records and barely have any content, even when had really good survivor matches.
https://youtu.be/WyZ0X0UcrnE?si=qdyqx74NOHkMdTvo
But I have some compilation of last 2 months playing my main. -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030559#Comment_4030559
Как я уже сказал, я думаю, что это одно из отличий между нашими двумя регионами. Некоторые считают, что игру нужно изменить, а другие считают, что в этом нет необходимости. Справедливости ради стоит отметить, что другие «механики», похожие на туннелинг, были удалены ранее, и это пошло игре на пользу. Никто не расстраивается из-за исчезновения фейс-кемпинга или мета с тремя генераторами.
Я не думаю, что нужно заставлять игроков покупать перки, чтобы получить хороший матч; на мой взгляд, это плохой дизайн. Если вы вынуждены покупать DLC для перка, чтобы вас не туннелировали или не ген-рашировали, это плохо.
Я считаю, что ген-рашинг гораздо сложнее, чем туннелинг. Любой новый игрок может это делать, а вот ген-рашинг — нет. Однако я согласен, что мы должны дать убийце что-то взамен. Нечто не такое мощное, как туннелирование, но что-то хорошее, и я не видел этого в последнем тесте.
Я согласен, что BHVR нужно работать над другими вещами, просто не думаю, что они могут сделать это эффективно. Возможно, я слишком устал от того, что восемь лет наблюдал за их неудачами в создании нормально функционирующей игры.
Ну, тогда для меня это остается лицемерием. Bias, if being honest. Тут нет «это другое», это равнозначно. А если слишком больно это признавать, это личные проблемы человека.
Опять таки - лезть в стиль игры пока не умеешь даже баги решать это посредственно и плохо. Если два ПТБ провалились и их не хотят принимать никак, значит это не произойдет в ближайшие года. Пора смириться. А пытаться оправдаться что это влияние контент креаторов— это или низкокачестванная ложь, или страх признать что твое собственное мнение не в таком уж и подавляющем большинстве чтобы это произошло. Они бы не отменили это ПТБ если это не значило финансовый провал, все люди это понимают.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030693#Comment_4030693
If survivors don't try to play the game then that is their fault and the reason why a match against Blight feels like he is the easiest killer in the entire game. Then we can already call Trapper S tier when we assume people don't try their bare minimum. Not saying Blight is fine but the comparison feels so off.
It's also not true that people don't try. I play both sides (killer and SoloQ) and see people trying to play the game. Sure, also people who don't try but that's a player issue and has nothing to do with the game.
2v8 is a complete different gamemode. You cannot compare 2v8 with 1v4 because there are a too many differences from basekit unbalanced aspects to unbalanced player issues. I also played 2v8 and it shocked me how many people ran randomly in Trapper's trap when his main counterplay is look at the ground (you don't even the other counterplay of avoid basement). It also shocked me how easy people give Oni the first hit in two seconds when the maps are bigger than Europe and have more wood than the rain forest.
I get it’s survivor issue, but honestly, do we really believe average level of player here is decent enough to call matches difficult or more effort consuming?
It doesn’t cancel the fact that playing against average players making yourself pretty average. No role is “harder”. Killer might feel more stressful, due to inability to share responsibility, but no reason to call “it requires more to do x thing” if you facing average player.
2vs8 just showed me how some killer players do without perks. Simply badly. Because there are no good incentives for playing killer besides kfw. Your only advantage is zero SBMM and skill adaptability that can slow down gen for gifting you comeback.Many killer players choosing as same simple path as survivors. I’m not talking about playstyles even. You can gen rush without perks and tunnel without something helping you for it. I mean the reliance on tools for killers aren’t less significant than for survivors. And people choose the most simple one, that doesn’t work only against decent opponents.
Blight with blood favor is as cheap as surv with sprint burst and vigil. Survivor meta just more busted because they don’t have abilities and BHVR like second chances.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4030684#Comment_4030684
The killer player still needs some skill to get the down, hook, and pressure while sitting on a gen and doing a gen with a fat toolbox requires not so much.
I also said that killers have a similar problem when it comes to effort-reward.
Considering average level of solo q — no. It’s hard only if people trying, which is a rarity in this game if you aren’t playing custom.
I played 2vs8 and it showed me some killers there. If such guys also somehow having higher than 50% KR… I’m not gonna be surprised.