runningguy
runningguy
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018633#Comment_4018633
cant buff soloq without buffing SWF.
Not so. You could give survivors basekit Kinderd or Visionary or another info perk. SWF on comms already have this info. They won't benefit much, if at all. In fact, many people in the forum have been calling for this.
But i doubt many xbox players are actually doing this.
I'm not on xbox but yeah, you have to be in a lobby with someone from your platform. You have to press a few things to do it. You have to care enough. When it's happened to me, I've ignored it. I've even had a few people hound me in game for ignoring it. As killer, I've messaged survivors mid-game. Some of these have gotten me immediate VC requests. It happens.
it cant be done
Exactly, it can't. Are you using an expensive headset or busted speakers with your kids screaming in the background. A tiny Switch screen or a pricey monitor or a giant TV. The ground will always be uneven, especially with the advent of crossplay.
or a system that lets solo players call out hex locations, current whereabouts and other things
This I'm 100% on board with. The game needs a chat wheel big time, with a basic list of dialogues. There is only so much to say if you're not on friendly terms.
im good with a chat wheel and aura reading… if my solo player team mates find a hex totem i would love for it to show up on my screen. might actually encourage me to play as a team player…might lol i make no promises on that one.
i agree people using different equipment and different surroundings offer a different experience but i dont think we should intentionally widen the gap but denying some players something while offering it to other players… like having a lobby chat for pc but not console players. things we can offer to all i think we should offer to all. we cant control everything to make people have 100% equal experience like what headset they use but i think what we can control to offer as close as possible should be done. i dont think we can use the excuse of "the ground will always be uneven" to justify making it even more uneven. it would be a different story if we said pc players cant use sprint burst but they can have other things console players cant have which is ok because the ground will always be uneven. it just doesnt excuse inequality with what can be offered to all.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018592#Comment_4018592
I'm not saying they'd be needed in that they truly would be needed to balance the game, I'm saying they'd be needed as compensation because killers will cry, and when that happens, they tend to get what they want. I don't personally think it's needed, I just think it would happen. The fact that they're asking for feedback about the pallet density means a nerf is coming. It's always the same story.
nerf SWF using comms like a pro swat team instead
Nerf SWF that play efficiently? How do you nerf one group of people? What will you base it on? Vigil was already nerfed for this reason but there's only so much you can do. Solos on comms would likely be more tactical than parties anyway, because they're not friends and they're not having a laugh. They have nothing to say to each other but in-game things.
"The game is built around its limited communications" and the next post you say "The game is designed around comms whether they intended to or not"
These can both be true. It's limited in that some people are doing it and some aren't. The fact that a small group of exceptional players can use comms to boost their stats will cause balance changes even if the dev team can't specifically account for it and just goes by ERs.
i cant imagine the complaints if people were told "no comms unless you party up"
You already can be on comms with strangers in DbD if you're on console. You can send VC requests in lobby. People already do this. And PC users have pre and post game chat whereas console players don't. The ground is uneven for all players. There's no singular experience.
exactly my point you cant nerf just one group of people which makes nerfing and buffing and balancing impossible untill everyone is on a level playing field. untill that happens there will always be a particular group that get raw end of it. at the moment its soloq. cant buff soloq without buffing SWF. buffed SWF with comms no matter how small this group may or may not be would be game breaking thats why survivors often dont get the buffs they need. look at the all the perks that seemed healthy in solo but SWF teams abused them so they got nerfed.
again you say people already use comms on xbox by sending invites so assuming that many people are doing this then it wouldnt be a big deal if we just made it so xbox players could talk to pc players via comms. But i doubt many xbox players are actually doing this. i played on xbox when i first started and i never did that besides, the xbox player base is a fraction on what the full player base is anyway. i would be interested to hear from xbox players how many are actually sending random people invites to use comms in the match. i do agree the ground is uneven for all players which is my point, how do you balance a game so soloq doesnt suck with such an unbalanced, uneven ground at its core. it cant be done. like it or not, if we are ever going to get balance where everyone has a good time, killer survivor, solo, swf then this uneven ground needs to be smoothed out a little. a big step towards that goal is making solo and swf more inline with eachother. comms is the way to do that. or a system that lets solo players call out hex locations, current whereabouts and other things SWF can do via comms.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018583#Comment_4018583
Because it would be everyone, where it currently isn't. It's a whole-game change. Killers can't even handle more pallets. I can't imagine the tears and screams if survivors got comms. BHVR would have to compensate them somehow. Even if the comms ended up not being very beneficial at all, they would be perceived as such. There's already so much complaining about the SWF boogeyman as is.
But you said not all SWF use comms even though they are available…the ones that do and use it efficiently have an advantage.
not all solo players would use comms but the ones that use it efficiently would have an advantage.
you already said everyone has comms via discord or xbox or any number of ways so by your logic comms is available to everyone already if they decide to do that. much like everyone having comms in game and having the decision to use it or not or to have a laugh or play like a swat team or not. but you also say would be available to everyone but currently it isnt… bit of a contradiction there. its either available to everyone or its not.
i will rephrase, being as cant blanket nerf SWF due to not all SWF having comms….nerf SWF using comms like a pro swat team instead. not all SWF use comms this way just like not all solo players would use comms this way but your saying a blanket nerf to all survivors would be called for if all had the option of comms regardless if they use it for call outs or not. this has to apply to SWF too or it shows double standards. cant refuse a blanket nerf on SWF on this basis no all SWF use comms this way or at all but then in the same breath say a blanket nerf to all survivors would be needed. if its needed for all survivors due to them having comms its needed currently for SWF as they already have comms.
"The game is built around its limited communications" and the next post you say "The game is designed around comms whether they intended to or not". These statements confuses me because the game being build around comms means everyone has it, everyone has the choice to use it and they build with that aspect in mind. but the game being build around LIMITED comms means not everyone has it. these are 2 very different things.
Games like cod is built around comms, not partial comms. The devs dont restrict solo players talking to team mates while the opposite team is in a party with comms. they make it so all players can easily access comms if they choose to and build the game around this. i cant imagine the complaints if people were told "no comms unless you party up" people would then party up to use comms for a tactical advantage just like SWF often do in dbd.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018575#Comment_4018575
First off, having comms doesn't make you a pro. Half my VC interactions are jokes and laughter, not clock callouts and militant plays. If anything, they're often a hinderance if you're being too silly. You can't blanket nerf SWF because there's too many forms. Most parties I play in aren't on comms, or sometimes some members are and some aren't. The system has no way to determine this. Even if you make parties visble to killers in the lobby, you still don't know if they're on comms. You'd be surprised how many parties aren't. I'm always in a party but I'm rarely on comms.
The game is designed around comms whether they intended to or not, simply because comms exist. Everyone can add people as friends in game. Everyone has access to Discord. Console players can chat without it. A killer can even invite a survivor to VC mid-game on console. The way the system is now allows you to vet people and have an immediately friendly stance so you don't have to talk to some unbearable random. Or have some backstabbing rat try to us the VC to turn their teammate into a shield with false info.
If open VC comes then the survivor wincon needs to change into win or lose based on the team outs, and individual ERs need to go. Because it would very much be a full team enterprise at that point.
why would survivors be nerfed if everyone had comms then? people already have comms available so why would there be a nerf?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018563#Comment_4018563
People aren't going to mute though, and the energy will get worse. End game chat is rife with toxicity. People complain endlessly about how it alters their mindsets about the game and their in-game actions, yet they keep it on, even people who come here and express severe negative affects and are burdened with anxiety because of it. You yourself said general BMing makes you tunnel and slug indiscriminately as killler. How much will you lash out if someone calls you an idiot mid-game?
The potential problems go beyond the toxicity. The game is built around its limited communications. If chat happened, survivor would be nerfed into oblivion to make up for it.
if people dont mute they bring it on themselves, its like people that know they can hide their player name in the lobby but choose not to. should we stop everyones name from being seen because some people cant decide for themselves to hide it if it gets too much for them? we are not children, we can decide for ourselves if we want to mute or not or hide name or not. you have said what i was saying a while ago though. the game is built around no comms… offer comms will mean nefs to survivors. why? because it makes them op having comms that the game isnt designed for so will need nerfs. you have just described SWF. should we nerf them?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018546#Comment_4018546
From playing just as long. You ever played a shooter? CoD? Nothing but toxicity. You haven't lived until a 12-year-old boy has hurled slurs at you. I've never seen a PvP where VC was anything less than viscious. DbD is already hostile. If you think all these BMing dicks who are outrageous in chat are just gonna be sunshine and rainbows in VC then you're naive.
As for targeting, it remains to be seen. DbD has a larger audience and older culture than TCM had, and a lot of ingrained toxicity. I've been sandbagged for minor offenses, I'm sure I'll be sandbagged for not talking too.
i played many pvp including cod but if i didnt want to hear comms i just mute, problem solved. thats what i mean, muting solves the issue your referring to but you claim that will cause more toxicity which i just dont see how. there have been countless pvp team games with comms over the years where i was the only one without comms and i have never been targeted for that reason, never been killed by my team mates for not having comms or anything like that. it sounds more like paranoia that you believe it would cause in increase in toxicity by muting someone if im honest. if people are going to be toxic they will be toxic regardless of comms or not but muting someone (which they often wouldnt even know they are muted) wouldnt make you a target.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018310#Comment_4018310
Open VC is the worst thing in PvP. I will never stop advocating against it. I used to play shooters with it and even the lobby was outrageously toxic. The amount of racist, homophobic, and sexist slurs being spouted every match was insane.
Even making friends in DbD and then joining them in chat has made me immediately delete some of them because they were so unpleasant. In a game like this, where VC would lead to more coordination and become pretty much mandatory, muting others or yourself is going to get you sandbagged to hell.
im still waiting on where you get his assumption from. this never happened in TCM or any game i have ever played in the 20+ years of playing pvp with VC. not once i have ever come across anyone that targeted someone over someone muting them. TCM in particular had a pretty mixed bag of people with comms and people without so i really dont see where you get this idea from.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018501#Comment_4018501
Playing selfishly is absolutely your right to do - it's actually one of the things BHVR has pushed. Each survivor has their own win condition, there is no actual survivor "team", and even their advertisements asked will you work together or go at it alone? That being said, I do agree (as I had mentioned) that solo queue inherently has a disadvantage due to a lack of communication. I'm just stating that the higher your MMR is, the more likely you'll be getting better quality survivors on your team. That's why I encourage learning how to handle yourself and do well with looping if you do solo queue. Not only will you buy the other survivors more time on gens, but you'll also get the added benefit of increasing your MMR and in turn get better quality survivors on your team. Low to mid MMR solo queue is a bad experience. At higher MMR, the issue isn't as apparent, as high MMR survivors tend to naturally be more team oriented.
i think the whole MMR thing is a bit iffy because apparently bhvr doesnt count abandons as a loss and doesnt lower MMR so with the amount of survivors abandoning when last downed, they would maintain MMR instead of losing it. abandon 5 matches just before sacrifice….escape 3, killed 2. this would mean in 10 matches players MMR would be going up in spite of only escaping 3/10 matches because the game would only count the 3 escapes v 2 killed. so with that in mind i dont think its a case of higher MMR means more likely to get better quality team mates
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@RpTheHotrod said:
As someone who has played a lot of killer, SWFs (at a more limited scale - I don't know many who play DBD), and Solo Queue, here is one very common pattern.
One issue that can happen is the "solo queue survivor" might not inherently do well with a team due to a variety of possible reasons. Due to this, how well the survivors do in the round really comes down to the lynchpin of the quality of the solo survivor. If they just work alone, it'll usually be a rough match for survivors as a whole. Due to this, when I play solo queue, I ensure that I'm working with the team as much as I can, taking hits, doing rescues, and ensuring my hook states are a shared resource (ie get in the face of the killer and take a hook state if they are chasing someone on death hook). By doing this, you - the lynchpin - ends up being much stronger, and in turn, the chances for the survivors goes up a LOT.
As solo queue, if I didn't go out of my way to sacrifice myself in order to get others an escape through the door, I'd have a roughly 60% escape rate. At the moment, I have a 52.44% from the last 30 days according to the DBD stats tracker (which is almost entirely solo queue except maybe 4 matches), but this is lower than it could be due to, as I stated, I OFTEN will trade in the endgame or go down intentionally in order to ensure other survivor's escape (just my personality).
In the end, if you're playing solo queue, you need to be working with the team. If you're able to hold your own (ie know how to loop, when to take heat off others, etc…), then solo queue isn't that bad, at all. The other factor, of course, are the other people you get put into a match with. That comes down to MMR, which means the better skilled you are, you'll "usually" get put into matches with other experienced players. Your MMR level is on you and your capabilities - the better you are, the more experienced teammates you'll generally get (unless DBD MMR is on vacation which can happen during off hours often where it'll take just about anyone to put into your game).
It really does come down to being able to handle yourself and your skill level - even the quality of other teammates from matchmaking. Here's a recent clip of mine. You can see I'm taking the hit off of one survivor that would otherwise had gotten hooked. Even if I didn't get flashlight saved, that's a LOT of extra time before someone gets hooked which means more time on gens for the team and less time people having to run for unhooks and\or less opportunity for tunneling. You'll notice, however, is that the teammate doesn't just run for the hills and does a successful save. The quality of your gameplay will go up the higher your skill level pushes MMR. At higher MMR levels, survivors as a whole are incredibly strong. If you must do solo queue, work with your team, learn how to loop well, realize hook states are a team resource, and as you climb in MMR, your teammates will be of higher quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWJYi4qz-1w
Another example of solo queue
You'll notice people are working together. This naturally happens the higher MMR you are which is why survivors are stronger at high MMR play.
regardless of if the solo player is working with the team they still cant make call outs where hex totems are or call outs what gens they are at or what areas are now pallet dead zones. as solo player i dont have the advantages that swf brings so i work as a team to a point (i will crank out gens asap and save someone if i think it will buy me time to get the rest of the gens done) but i wont risk myself for my team mates. sure i can loop the killer for 2 or 3 min but whats the point if my team refuse to touch gens? then when i dont need the team anymore its every man/woman for themselves, when the gens are done, im going for the gates and getting out. i learnt the hard way as solo player i cant rely on my team mates to perform well or work as a team, i get meme players, people doing adepts, doing totems, griefers, people that just cant loop. playing selfishly works for me. i get some hate but i dont care lol its like solo players seem to want this coordinated team effort without the resources to do so. give me comms and a way to let me team know crucial info and i will work as a team more, untill then solo players should play for themselves imo.
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@Colt45m said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018310#Comment_4018310
That's why i said add an ignore feature so people who don't want to deal with it can use it. Many others especially in solo q would love comms to make the game more fun and fair for both sides. SWF already uses them so why not just implement it for everyone?
for some strange reason people dont want solo to have comms. like you said SWF has it so why not solo? people say about the toxicity comms would bring but when confronted with "mute" button i see no valid reason why comms shouldnt be available to solo. people would have the choice to have comms on or off but it seems the general attitude is "i dont want comms so we shouldnt offer it to the people that want it either"
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018145#Comment_4018145
You already had to down the survivors twice anyway to get to where they even could abandon. You already expended most of the effort you would have had to if you had just played normally. Now you want to tack on additional effort to have to down bots all over again. Doesn't matter how easy it is - it's additional effort. Plus, all on a gamble - you have no idea if the survivors will actually abandon. If they don't, you've wasted your entire match with zero hooks. You lose.
If you think that makes for a faster or easier match than playing like a normal person then you're just wrong. That has nothing to do with this thread though.
iv had 3 matches tonight so far where a killer slugged people, either went for whole team slugging (which failed due to people recovering team mates) or left the slug to chase another person (the slug gets recovered) next time they are downed every single one that had the abandon option turned to bots. its almost a sure bet when the option comes up people will use it especially if its against a killer they dont like, and the kicker is the abandon option stays an option the whole match so even if they dont abandon straight away they can still use this to abandon at a later point whenever they want if the match isnt going their way. last 2 survivors, 3 or 3 gens left, not looking good but they can abandon because the were recovered more than once. if tunneling was ever removed, this would be the next go to strat. slug and bank on boring survivors into abandoning.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018129#Comment_4018129
That's a completely different situation you're lumping in because you just don't like the abandon system. Forcing survivors to abandon doesn't end the match - it just replaces them with bots. Do you think downing each survivor twice, banking on them abandoning, and then downing their bot alter-egos again for hooking is easier than just playing the game normally?
yes 100% easier…dont have to deal with hooks or hook stages and only need to do it to 1 or 2 survivors to get a bot then its easy street because bots are useless. when theres a couple of bots in the match its pretty much game over unless the killer seriously misplays it. i say this as survivor and killer, i know how easy it is to kill bots. faster they become bots easier it is
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@MDRSan said:
If using a key or map to view auras caused the match to no longer be counted in stats or used for MMR calculations the solution wouldn't be to remove keys or maps.
Just fix the bug.
so killers could try to force abandon by downing people twice? why hook or slug when they could just do that to pick up the win? its not just the bug that needs fixing its the abandon option as a whole that needs fixing
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018109#Comment_4018109
For a four-man slugfest, sure, but that's not the norm for the abandon feature's use. If you're in a normal, non-sluggy match, two people are left, one is on hook, and the other gets downed, they can immediately both abandon, as is the case in most of my matches. And if there's just one left, they can abandon during the mori. Those are hard losses. They should count as such. If not, a massive chunk of survivor deaths are being thrown out.
Looking at my last matches—which there were seven of—there are 6 abandons, all of them the last person to die. And weirdly, two escape that I'm positive were kills. I recall the matches. This is one of them:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3V7WVR0DNWTL/screenshot-20251022-203201.jpg
It was a 4k, but for some mysterious reason Leon shows as escaped. The Mikaela was a genuine DC. Claudette was the last to die. Is that three free passes for them, for no reason? If 25% or more of my opponents receive get-out-of-jail free cards for being the last one or two to die, that's a massive problem with the numbers and the MMR and makes zero sense.
i agree which is how they messed up with the abandon feature. it should have been to help survivors get out of the match when all are slugged but the abandon option then went further to last survivor downed can abandon and now its gone further again with being downed and recovered twice people can abandon. it keeps getting worse every time they add a new abandon criteria
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017995#Comment_4017995
The official page should just be shut down then, if it's completely wrong. The only visuals we have to give examples and prove points are these stats that might be extremely inaccurate. And they'd only be falsely inflating the egos of survivors who hit abandon all the time.
But they specifically mentioned MMR in the response and that's way more worrying. The matchmaking will never be anything better than a disaster if you can just abandon and delete your losses.
the reason why survivors dont lose mmr for pressing the abandon button is because they dont want to encourage killers to slug more to force abandons so its neutral.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018039#Comment_4018039
If your argument is "its not fun" then prepare to have a massive chunk of stuff straight deleted from the game on both sides.
"Fun" is subjective. "Fun" is NOT any worthwhile criteria or justification for anything really because its inherently bias.
Lets say I dont find flashlights, medkits, toolboxes, endurance perks, second chance perks "fun" shall we start deleting or making "anti" systems for all these too? All these improve your chancing of winning like tunneling and slugging do for killers. Therefore they should be subject to the same criteria for balancing. See how nonsense "fun" is when you use it in an argument?
If you want to use nonsense subjective reasons for balancing then BOTH SIDES should get to do the same. Let the great gutting of everything begin!!!!
pretty much what i been saying. doings gens pressing a button isnt fun, going in circles isnt fun, doing nothing on hook isnt fun, doing nothing when slugged isnt fun. when will people say "ok the game isnt fun for me" and just leave it there?
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016675#Comment_4016675
You need to work on your mind gaming and winning chases. Tunneling and slugging is so unnecessary if you know how to use the killer you're playing. Every killer on the roster is strong in their own way. I've 4k many times as trapper and hes one of the worst killers in the game. Without tunneling or slugging. You do realise most pallets on maps are unsafe and easily mind gameable?
interesting that you say you need to work on mind gaming and winning chases but fail to see how that can be turned the other way…you need to work on your looping and playstyle to counter tunneling. if its good for 1 argument its good for the other but you ignore that every time.
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as long as people find an issue they will DC regardless…. tunneling killer, bad map, killer they just dont know how to play against, bad spawn location, swf buddy taken out of the match, team mates that are avoiding gens….are all reasons why people DC among many other reasons. they just need to make DC stricter so people that cant handle the game are forced to not play anymore. by cant handle the game i mean cant handle tunneling, cant handle their swf buddy being taken out, cant handle perfectly balanced killers that individual survivor just dont know how to counter.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017539#Comment_4017539
I would say, the game has indulged tunnelers and tunnel enjoyers for nine years, and shredded its newcomers.
When is it others turn?https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017814#Comment_4017814
countering tunneling has to be relatively easy and approachable
That's another assumption, you already admitted to it not working every time. So we are threading the same argument again.
its these people that will end up killing the game if bhvr went along with these demands. removing a broken element which cant be countered yes i understand but removing what little tactical element the game wont go well.
You killing the game for you, not them. While that aspect has already killed the game for others.
I think its a bold thing to say in the light of how many have quit.
im not sure why your saying about not working every time…. its not supposed to work every time but it works enough for me to get 60% escape rate and enjoy the game. the ptb already had killers more than prepared to quit the killer role or the game altogether because it killed tunneling, killed one of the few tactical aspects of the game so its not just me it would kill the game for.
Why wont survivors change playstyle to counter the tactic they hate so much? even if it works 60% of the time but fails 40% why are people not even trying to counter it? why are people still unhooking in front of the killers face, not making use of the hook timer to do gens, running around trying to get saves instead of gens, not learning to loop better, playing stealthy?
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i feel this issue will be silently ignored…. it seems like the devs have messed up royally with this abandon thing.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017362#Comment_4017362
No, it all depends on how BHVR wants to evolve the game. If the vast majority hated looping, then they would have evolved the game away from looping and perhaps into something else. So it all comes down to how easy and approachable anything is.
And like you already answered, if tunneling almost always succeeded for the Killer, you would find it boring.
Is it really that puzzling now???thats my point, countering tunneling has to be relatively easy and approachable if someone like me can do it in soloq with no perks. its mass laziness of people just not wanting to learn the counter so they complain hoping its removed so they dont have to learn to counter it. people say they like to loop the killer, they like chases, they like interaction. tunneling provides all of this, yet people dont like it because they fail to counter it. what puzzles me is how are they failing to counter it? why are they not changing playstyle to counter it? "because i dont want to" isnt a valid reason. its these people that will end up killing the game if bhvr went along with these demands. removing a broken element which cant be countered yes i understand but removing what little tactical element the game wont go well.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017330#Comment_4017330
Would be cool if you answered my question instead of deflecting, I repeat it for you.
If your attempts at countering it were foiled every time you try it. Would you find that boring or fun?
i did answer your question "i used to find loops crazy difficult to beat and boring". the answer is yes i would find it boring and i did. but as we all know, looping is part of the game so im guessing we need to learn to deal with looping regardless of how boring someone might find it. same applies to tunneling.
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@SDXshadowSDX said:
Why does the developers make "cool" skins and new survivors? also for a new update they should make a class system like runner, gen rush, and healer or something like that? going back to my first idea not skins like milatary wise but like not a cry baby that is put in a world with monsters and famous horror movie characters.
bhvr struggle to balance the different killers, i dont think giving them different survivors with different abilities and stuff to balance would go down well
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017271#Comment_4017271
Imagine then if you will, if your attempts at countering it were foiled every time you try it. Would you find that boring or fun?
i used to find loops crazy difficult to beat and boring, all my attempts to counter these loops failed…. dont hear any calls to remove loops from the game though or rage DCing because people fail at countering a looper. why? because people learn and adapt, they improve, they counter, they play the game. which is exactly what i did and exactly what others can do regarding tunneling.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017208#Comment_4017208
You are making extraordinary assumptions here. The argument confuses possibility with accessibility, making the assumption that because a counter exists, it’s equally viable for all players. Example: "The average driver also CAN go above the speed limit and drive fine, so it puzzles me how some drivers have an issue that can be countered."
Just because something can be done or countered by some people doesn’t mean everyone can do it consistently or safely.
Which you should know, because I doubt every game you ever played, the Survivors successfully prevented tunneling.
So you you should it could go wrong and then you times that with how bad some players are and it should be clear how repeated instances of this would rather make people quit than not.You may be confusing yourself by thinking you are an average player, only BHVR could know that fact of your MMR.
Its common to think that, I agree, but without proof and evidence its a needlessly unknowable in this conversation.Something to think about isn't it, Even if it isnt a problem for you.
it doesnt need to be countered consistently or safely, if that was the case it would be a very boring game. its unrealistic to expect any tactic to be 100% counterable or un-counterable. if some people cant counter it then they need to change playstyle. im not a comp player or streamer, im just an average person that plays the game. i dont excel at looping, i play soloq survivor and even i can counter tunneling with god awful team mates and i dont run any anti tunnel perks. its about play style more than anything. do i counter it all the time? no, but i do it enough that it doesnt give me any frustrations or issues.
cant imagine if killers were complaining about looping saying "i know it can be countered by changing playstyle but im going to do things my way and complain when it doesnt work".
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@CozyCosi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4013496#Comment_4013496
bro thinks hes good
i have always said im just an average player that plays survivor and killer. which is why it puzzles me how so many people have an issue with something that can be countered
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would fit the silly scooby doo style looping that happens every match. almost comedic at this point
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@stikyard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017046#Comment_4017046
In an event with a bunch of side quests for cosmetics and rewards. I'm literally opening portals and farming crystals and we are tunneling and camping?
You're telling me, tunneling and camping is fun?
yes its fun when playing killer…
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so from my understanding, from survivor point of view….if i die first, second or 3rd its a loss, mmr goes down. if im last survivor its like having the hatch where my mmr will never go down. if killer slugs for 4k then 2 survivors essentially get the hatch by abandoning so mmr doesnt go down.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016817#Comment_4016817
Weren't you arguing killers should be able to abandon and just end the match for everybody rather than potentially have to watch survivors t bag at the exit gate in another thread?
no i was saying IF survivors have it then killers should have it too. in an ideal world i dont think either side have the ability to skip the end of the match. survivors can currently bypass mori so killers should bypass the tbags….or remove survivors ability to abandon to avoid mori.
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sable and pyramid head
pyramid head because he has good anti loop and great for tunneling
sable because everyone hates sable players lol the amount of lobby dodgers that leave the lobby the second a sable enters is crazy
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i been saying this since day 1 lol last survivor almost always abandons instead of watching the mori or hook animation and it just makes no sense to allow this to happen.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015363#Comment_4015363
You go from saying tunneling is a tactic to admitting someone squatting rapidly tilts you so hard you tunnel as a form of indiscriminate pre-retribution. So which is it? A cold-blooded winning strategy or an emotional response? Do killers want an abandon option because the game is over or because their feelings are hurt?
its a tactic to use to as pre-retribution lol. its a cold hearted strategy used partly in response to the treatment received if i dont pick up the win. killers want to abandon for the same reason survivors do, when they dont have fun they abandon. nothing to do with if the game is over or hurt feelings.
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if there is an issue with soloq its the players… devs cant do much about that. how are the devs going to force people to do gens intead of totems? or force people to take hits? or force someone to not lead the killer to the only person doing gens? they cant.
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@Alicia_Tried6041 said:
They know tunneling, proxy camping and slugging are broken mechanics with no counterplay so they do it.
very much a counter play to it as i have pointed out many times
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looping has sky rocketed since day one. looping can be highly efficient but it can also fail. just like tunneling.
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@WalterBlack said:
There have been so many posts about this topic and it always comes down to the same thing - Killers have the opportunity to hit survivors out, and should therefore just suck it up and enjoy the teabags. Now that BHVR has added a feature to quit after you've been downed & healed back up twice, what is the excuse now? Is that okay? Survivors in that scenario would actually have a bigger chance of getting something done than the Killer when the gates are opened.
i will never understand bhvr logic lol. abandon feature was designed to end a match the has been lost. like if all are slugged and cant get back up. yet abandon has become a free go next regardless if survivors can continue the match or not. Who needs to DC when there are so many abandon options available?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016016#Comment_4016016
This would be the ideal, but I think they went for the blanket fix because it was easier. Imagine how much work they'll have to do on each killer.
exactly what i been saying. bhvr would need to rework most of the killer roster individually. they struggle to balance new killers like ghoul and krasue yet people want them to balance the entire roster killer by killer and have it so they can hold thier own v SWF but not make them too OP for soloq. even if they were to do attempt this, it would take years to impliment. these expectations are too high imo. people can wish and hope but i dont see it happening without killing the game.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016040#Comment_4016040
Then you admit that tunnel and slug is not problem. Noted.
thats exactly what i admit. im doing fine with countering it so its not a problem for me
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015977#Comment_4015977
So in your opinion killers have to bring slowdown to counter genrush but survivors should have antitunnel and antislug free?
survivors dont have to use anti tunnel or anti slug perks to counter these tactics. if you struggle to counter without them then yes its probably a good idea to use them but they are not needed. its about playstyle not about perks.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016008#Comment_4016008
As I mentioned, if you take out tunneling/slugging, and gather data from there on, it would be easier to balance the game after that point. That also includes the survivors.
not only are you expecting that a legit tactic that can be countered removed but your also expecting bhvr to buff/nerf individual killers in order to be balanced v soloq and SWF…. wont happen. it took bhvr 8/9 years to get the 40/60 balance they wanted they would probably take another 9 years to rebalance the game after they remove tunneling and slugging if that can be done at all.
so we remove tunneling and slugging….buff trapper so tunneling isnt needed. soloq and the trapper have a fun well balanced match. Now when that trapper gets a SWF that has coms and perk synergy the SWF win with ease.
Or do we super buff trapper so he can stand toe to toe with the SWF teams? soloq would still have an issue that the killer is too op. it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work and drama just because people refuse to change their playstyle and counter tunneling and slugging.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016003#Comment_4016003
What exactly are you trying to achieve with that statement?
I have seen many screenshots posted of kill-rates in the 80-90% range, where the OP was admitting to tunneling.
So take away tunneling/slugging, and get the accurate data for survivor as well. If the average escape rates shoots into the sky as a result of no tunneling/slugging, then those could be addressed by buffing killers accordingly.
Can you see the big picture in my statement?you misunderstand me, the reason i ask this is because i have an escape rate of 60% escape rate. 20% above to the 40% mark bhvr aims for. if killers getting 20% more than the devs aim for and that calls for a nerf then shoud we nerf survivors too?
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015979#Comment_4015979
This is assymetrical game. It should be balanced around assymetry. 50% rate should be justified by actual play and not handholding as it was on PTB. Last official stats from devs showed 40/60% average rates. Devs claimed them as what they always wish for their game. Psychology is just a way to explain why it's happening.
While the average is fairly balanced, as it should be, it still does not take the more extreme cases into account, where some players can manage an 80-90% kill-rate. Many of which are inflated to such numbers, because of tunneling.
If we got rid of the tunneling and slugging, then we could have gotten more accurate data on what the TRUE average is.Take out the cheese strats = Get more accurate data on how the actual Kill Rate is sitting at
More accurate data = Easier to buff/nerf certain characters accordingly.So, take out the problematic aspects of the game, then gather data from that point, and finally make adjustments based on the new data gathered. In the end, I think everyone would be happier with the outcome of a truly balanced game, both killer players and survivor players alike.
am i reading this right. extreme cases where killers are getting 80% to 90% kill rate being inflated by tunneling…so remove tunneling and slugging to see an accurate statistic? does this apply to survivor too?
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seems about right. makes sense why im getting toba, the game, haddonfield over and over
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015493#Comment_4015493
I can see the frame of the big picture and the wall it hangs on, if you want to go that far.
That aside, I am fairly positive that the removal of tunneling + excessive slugging (cough cough .. Infectious Fright .. cough cough). I am more than very certain that there would be a significant drop-off in DC's from the survivor side.
For reference, I played several matches today where no one tunneled, and I did not see any outright DC's, other than abandons when all was lost. Even against a sweaty ghoul, no one dc'd, because he didn't tunnel people off of the hooks.
So prove me wrong, but tunneling is indeed the number one cause for DC'sin contrast to your experience i have had multiple matches in a row where atleast 1 person DC at the start of the match before they even knew who the killer was or went down first. However, assuming tunneling is the top reason people DC. my point still stands. tunneling can and has been countered, im living proof of this. i counter it myself as survivor and people have countered it against me when i tunnel as killer. instead of people changing playstyle to counter this awful DC inducing tactic we should change it so that tactic cant be used? if i cant counter SWF teams as killer and start DCing should we get rid of SWF?
With this in mind, DCing because of tunneling is just as petty of a reason to DC as having a map they dont like or any number of petty reasons people will DC over. This is why people should learn to counter tunneling and the DC pen should be harsher.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4014528#Comment_4014528
Who cares? Honestly? The majority of hatch games are a cesspool of Killers being so toxic and unfun that they're often camping/tunneling/slugging at 5 gens. I just had a match of the event against a Kaneki with a wussy build, but even worse were the Survs I was paired with. Not even 30 seconds into the match and all three were downed with two hooked, so now I'm just supposed to play prison simulator since I'm being held in a match where nothing but hook trades are going to get done? No.
I parked my butt right in a locker and waited for the hatch and the Kaneki raged as did the awful Survs who were all down within 30 seconds. If BHVR got rid of DC penalty, I would have given them a bot and honestly they deserved a bot, not an actual human on the other end, but BHVR doesn't support positive gameplay.
Hatch should spawn with two Survs left, plain and simple. Then one Surv get's the hatch or the Killer closes it and forces gates at which point one of the two Survs have a chance at opening the gates. Enough of this toxic lame ass gameplay of slugging the 2nd to last or enticing Survs in SoloQ to rat on eachother while breaking literal game rules. BHVR needs to step up.
if hatch spawned at 2 survivors left no one would bother doing gens at all or going for saves and there would be 0 team work at all. 1 person dies….3 left. only 1 more needs to go before hatch, i know what i would do in that situation, hide and wait it out. i wouldnt be doing gens and i wouldnt be saving people because the less of my team there are the better chance i have. not sure you want to experience a match like that over and over.
its strange that people hate the killer slugging for 4k but these same people have no problem with hiding for hatch. i do what you do in that situation, go for hatch. but even i know i shouldnt be able to escape even though i havnt done anything in the match. But i dont have an issue with the killer slugging either.
"the killer is so petty and toxic for slugging trying to stop last survivor escaping via hatch"
"survivors are so petty and toxic for avoiding gens and hiding" (which is actually reportable as per game rules)
Both sides do equally boring and "toxic" things.
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@jjthejetplane3 said:
Wish they would bring back F13, TCM was okay but F13 was unique. Had it's flaws but concept was just like the movies. Just really well made for what I got to play.
im looking forward to the new halloween game, hopefully they pull it off well
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015493#Comment_4015493
No one is looking for a single "one size fits all" answer that once and for all ends people giving up. That's completely unrealistic.
People do disconnect for different reasons, and people haven't gotten more petty over time.
You were actually pretty close to recognizing this in your post earlier:
its impossible to know for certain what built up to the ragequit
Built up.
Frustrations build to a tipping point. So does exasperation.
You know what doesn't "build up"? Pettiness. You don't just accrue pettiness and BS reasons.
You build up frustration about the games health, about not having an actual chance, not being able to play the game, or just "it's been three days and two dozen matches, I just need to get my glyph FFS".
Those are things we might be able to do something about, even if partially or slightly. At least, we should be able to, except the loudest voices are screaming no, and most of those same people are also screaming "punish them" as well.
Or, I suppose "punish them harder" since "go next" has demonstrably not fixed the issue, and hasn't addressed literally any of the root causes either.
i understand that some people have frustrations that build up over time. but where do we draw the line? "im frustrated that im being tunneled" so i will DC. the answer appears to be fix tunneling so they dont feel the need to DC. ok, if survivors get frustrated over the fact the go down by the time 1 gen is done, they want to last until 2 gens are done. so if they go down before 2 gens are done then just DC. answer to that would be give in to the complaint and make survivors last long enough in chases for 2 gens to be finished. This is my point, where do we draw the line and say no? What counts as petty reasons and whats built up frustrations? the frustrations that build up is based on the expectations they have and they get frustrated when expectations are not met. so like i said, if i expect to last long enough in a chase so 2 gens can be done but i cant do that so i DC out of frustration, is the answer to change it so i can last longer in a chase? or is the answer to stop me from DCing by harsher penalties?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015495#Comment_4015495
Yeah, I'd imagine the bots are actually very beneficial to ratting. They can take the aggro while you stand behind a rock. But you do seem to care because you always show up to these threads and even made one of your own. It's hard for me to take the arguments of anyone who refers to teammates as "tools" or admits to playing selfishly in good faith, so I assume there's some ulterior motive at play.
This ER of yours seems to go up every time you mention it. I'm looking forward to it being 80%. We're likely in the same or similar brackets for survivor, as hatch doesn't affect MMR, so it keeps you low. That and upper relies on solid teamwork, where everyone must take aggro and body block and run cohesive plays.
these are discussion threads, its good to discuss issues on both sides and share our own individual experiences which is why i point out things that happen in my matches. bots can be beneficial in that they actually do gens which many survivors refuse to do, and like you said, they can take the heat so i can get hatch in a match that i would have lost and lost MMR. hatch maintains it so i can try again next time.
to be honest im looking forward to 80% escape rate too lol im good but im not that good….yet lol.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015489#Comment_4015489
I don't care about DCs. Like, at all. This topic is so tedious to me. I don't DC, but I don't think it's really an issue. If a teammate bots out, cool, bots are useful. If multiple people bot out early, many killers are chill and let the one or two humans leave. If they don't, fine. It's such a non-issue to me, but a small group of people love to complain about it. If BHVR really wants to know the reasons, they should do an anonymous survey. That's the best way to get a genuine answer. No identity, no performances—just feedback. But, so far, they seem unbothered.
I don't care what streamers are doing. What's in front of me is a game I play everyday and see almost zero of these supposedly rampant early game dropouts. I can mostly only speak from the killer side, as my survivor matches are less likely to have DCs, but whatever I'm doing as killer seems to not cause these early DCs to occur. What you're seeing isn't what I'm seeing. There has to be some reason for that.
There was also a few day period several months ago where penalties weren't accruing for DCs and you could DC freely. I saw no uptick at all.
you might not care about DCs, i dont really care either because im still maintaining my 60% escape rate regardless. like tunneling is a non issue for me. maybe the difference in our types of matches is MMR? maybe its the times of the matches? im not sure, but its clear that not everyone is playing the same game.