runningguy
runningguy
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020109#Comment_4020109
If it's not an issue, then why are you making this point? Clearly looping is an issue for you, otherwise you wouldn't be making this argument.
im making this point to highlight how crazy it is to suggest killers that tunnel need to learn to play "normally" and the expectations of it being ok to tunnel but not at 5 gens is unrealistic. because when i flip it and mention looping being treated the same way (play normally, use stealth, move around the map or looping is ok but dont do it at 5 gens 0 hooks it suddenly becomes insane. thats the point im making. im simply using looping as an example but i dont have an issue with it at all, i even go pyramid head because he has good anti loop…its not an issue.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020088#Comment_4020088
Stealth play?
You mean in the game that gave out about 20 different aura reading perks that are on unpredictable triggers, deleted anti aura protections, and implemented anti hiding.
You really do think it's 2018.
perks are irrelevant. im doing very well with stealth play, these perks dont only exist in your game. and also based on the amount of killers that say they have to use full slowdown builds because gens fly they only have 4 perks slots which is mostly slowdown and chase perks not aura perks
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020080#Comment_4020080
You're arguing that running to pallets and likely wasting resources is somehow more agreeable than looping? So you like breaking a zillion pallets as killer but you can't mind game or predict movements? Would you, as killer, like to play against four hiding, cowardly rats as well? Or is hiding only okay if it's just you while your teammates do the real work?
If you're tunneling at 5 gens it has nothing to do with the team sucking or not. And you're also talking like everyone who wins, tunnels, and that's not the case.
You're telling me I'm ignorant or delusional about a thing I do all the time. It CAN be an advantage. It can be a hindrance. It can also be nothing at all. I don't play in parties for an advantage, I play to hang out with chill people. I'll play with anyone if they're cool and I like their company. I know this is hard for you to believe, but not everyone is motivated solely by winning.
You're pretty much saying you take the easiest path both times: ratting and tunnelng? Do you think that's impressive?
again i have never said i cant mind game or predict movements, i have to do this to down people to start the tunneling process. i dont have an issue with it. but your failing to see the point time and time again. as killer yes i would like to play against stealthy survivors, they are the ones that give me a close match as killer and often counter my tunneling. as long as the people hiding are doing gens too i have no issue with it…thats what i do.
i think i use my wits more than most as killer and survivor which is often the easiest path….play smart. why would i intentionally pick the harder route? that doesnt sound smart to me. im not trying to impress anyone, im playing for me and my enjoyment and my win.
i didnt say you play in parties for an advantage, but like or not SWF with comms intentional or not often will have advantages. not everyone parties up with no comms and plays for memes and has chilled matches….thats the opposite of my experience. almost all SWF's recently have been meta perks, on comms, calling out hexes and locations.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020102#Comment_4020102
You admit to tunneling. I know you don't tunnel because people loop. You're actually more likely to tunnel those who don't loop because it's much easier.
see now your misunderstanding my character lol. i admit to tunneling because i dont see it as an issue like people admit to looping. its no different to me. but if its to prove a point i would be more than happy to not tunnel if people agreed to not loop. the satisfaction i would have from proving my point would top my satisfaction of tunneling lol. if bhvr came up with a mechanic to stop loops and stop tunneling dead in their tracks im all for it. would survivors be ok with it? unlikely, which is the point im making.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020083#Comment_4020083
Even the most Killer-sided people here don't hard tunnel every game at 5 gens because they know its scummy and not appropriate.
But hey, if that's the kind of player you are, more power to you. Precisely why it should be extremely penalized.
- here isnt a good representation of killers or survivors….in game matches are better to go by.
- if we go on your basis that most people dont hard tunnel at 5 gens then its not as common as people claim it to be so the big hooha about "tunneling every match being an issue" isnt an issue at all lol. tunneling is ok as long as we dont do it at 5 gens which nobody does that….so whats the problem?
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020088#Comment_4020088
Assuming you can make distance before the Killer is on your bumper again while you leave trails of blood. That almost never happens.
And oh yeah, even if I stopped looping, you wouldn't stop tunneling.
with the amount of pallets around its very possible to win without looping v certain killers lol. to prove a point i would stop tunneling if people agreed to stop looping. but i know no one will agree to it because "i need to loop". which is the point im making, if people need to loop carry on i got nothing against it but i need to tunnel so people should have nothing against it lol.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020064#Comment_4020064
Don't hide, don't pre run, don't use perks, don't use items, don't run away too early, don't give up, and absolutely, under no circumstances, should you ever touch a gen.
So, the perfect survivor stands in the open near a gen (but not touching it) and acts like an NPC. You should have about 3s reaction time and only start running just before the first hit takes a health state.
The only pallets you can throw are the equivalent of Ormond picnic table. You aren't allowed to hold w, and looping is (apparently) skill less.
Make sure to congratulate the killer on how amazing they are and how they deserve to be Max MMR, and how they should be showered in buffs to counter those evil SWF players.
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020054#Comment_4020054
If we're not supposed to loop, then what are we supposed to do, especially when you tunnel? 😕
stealth, i have said it many times, stealth play, lose line of sight. killers cant tunnel what they cant find. if i can do gens and remain hidden im sure others can. loop as secondary after your found….dont rely on it because then i can say you rely on looping like killers rely on tunneling…the one and only tactic that works for you and for them.
i have never said cant loop while i tunnel. im saying we can all do what we need to do. you need to loop? great, i need to tunnel. want me to stop tunneling? ok, i want you to stop looping. fair is fair
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020054#Comment_4020054
Yeah because nobody hard tunnels at 5 gens lmao
really? many here have openly admitted to doing it and survivors here have claimed this happens "almost every match". which is it? nobody does it or it happens a lot?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020057#Comment_4020057
Lol you can't just flip the wording on things and have it make zero sense just so you can justify playing in a way that is frowned on by almost everyone. Even people who defend tunneling constantly here don't do so for 5 gen tunneling.
Tunneling is optional and requires no skill. Decent looping against a killer who doesn't suck is a hard-earned skill and isn't optional if you want to win matches consistently.
You sure have a lot of knowledge about how people use comms for someone who doesn't.
How does one loop "when they need to"? Do you just stand there under the hook and point until end game? What does this even mean? Just say you don't care how anyone feels and winning in a video game is all that matters because you pretty much have said those things in pieces. Why try to justify being it with this nonsensical reasoning?
i have been in swf with comms years ago, i know the advantages it provides and i have seen the plays teams with comms can do in my own matches as killer and survivor. to suggest SWF with comms offers no advantages is just ignorant or delusional.
looping optional, i have escaped many matches by not looping. its called stealth. but you are close to the issue when you say "Decent looping against a killer who doesn't suck is a hard-earned skill and isn't optional if you want to win matches consistently." tunneling against a decent team that doesnt suck isnt optional if you want to win matches consistently. any argument can be flipped.
how to loop only when needed? you run around the map, pallet to pallet, take a hook state, and when you think your going to lose if you dont loop….then you can loop. this is the attitude of people regarding tunneling…chase people, let a few gens pop then when you think your going to lose then you can tunnel, then its acceptable.
so as i said, i wont tunnel if people dont loop and see how that goes? im guessing no?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020041#Comment_4020041
You do realize that all of this makes you sound like:
1. You get loopped to hell as killer.
2. You're bitter about people having friends.
3. You have no idea how to play without cheese tactics.
it might come across that way, certainly not the case but people can think what they want. it often comes across like people that have an issue with tunneling are bitter they lose and have no idea how to play the game when their one and only way fails.
my point still stands with no valid argument against it….you call tunneling a cheese tactic, i call comms in SWF or looping a cheese tactic. all are fine in my book, i have no issue with either because as survivor i can counter tunneling and as killer i can counter a large proportion of teams with tunneling. its just interesting that people refuse to see that tunneling is part of the game like it or not and always will be just like comms and looping.
you play solo survivor without looping and i will play killer without tunneling lol. no? how about i only tunnel if i need to, say mid match? and you only loop when you need to? no?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020041#Comment_4020041
So are we just gonna keep doing this, "what if" "what about" thing?
as long as your double standards stand then yes lol. works both ways. yet you still havnt explained how its not normal to tunnel but its perfectly normal and ok to loop when both things happen frequently. you dismiss it regarding it as "what if" but you have no valid reasoning when its flipped the other way round
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@coolgue1 said:
- 10% haste (was always in the game)
- Endurance (was always in the game)
- Elusive (QOL not hand holding + no longer a thing)
- No Sound (QOL not hand holding)
- See the killer's Aura (MABE hand hold a little like a pinky finger but far from it more on a QOL because u do anything and loose it to prevent non interactive game play)
- 10% haste in endgame (QOL)
- Endurance in endgame that always been apart of the game (QOL)
- Survivors can pick themselves up if slugged too long(MASSIVE QOL u have to be down for half your bleed out timer to get it to even activate wich was state at 130S thats 2 minutes for the survivor doing NOTHING)
- Anti face camp (QOL)
- Seeing the resolve bar on teammates (MASSIVE QOL)
- Pallet changes that massively increase the number of pallets on maps that didn't need it while not actually addressing the thing said changes claimed to be trying to fix. (Honestly, maps used to be like this before the devs started catering to every crying killer main. Now it’s about as balanced as it’s ever been.
As for killer—let’s not act like they haven’t been handed massive buffs over the last couple of years. They added more hooks per map, practically eliminating dead zones. Hooks now respawn in 30 seconds. Gens take 15 seconds longer to complete. And for the last 5 patches straight, they’ve been buffing 2–3 killers every single update — making almost the entire roster more viable, more oppressive, and way easier to use.
Maps got brighter and a lot smaller, loops (especially jungle gyms) were reworked to be killer-sided and be almost non existent on most maps now a day, and nearly every new killer released has been so simple to play that a toddler could 4K.
Shall I go on, honey? Because it’s honestly funny how you mention all these survivor ‘advantages’ but conveniently forget all the hand-holding killers have gotten.
And let’s be real — most of these so-called ‘extra pallets’ are filler pallets. They’re weak, short, and easily mind-gamed. Half the time they’re just two tiles laid next to each other for decoration. These aren’t strong loops; they’re fake safety nets at best.
But honestly, there’s no changing these people’s minds. They live in their own little world where killers are the eternal victims, no matter how many buffs they get.
it does seem as though any handholding on the survivor side is passed off as QoL. but i would like to point out
- more hooks per map was QoL for survivors not killers because killers would just slug which survivors hated.
- hook respawn was again QoL for survivors so killers didnt need to slug them.
- gens take 15 seconds longer when recent maps are huge so takes killer like 20 seconds to get the gen unless they are speed freaks like blight?
- you say they buff killers while ignoring they also nerf killers too…SM and Myers?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020031#Comment_4020031
You keep bringing it up.
I don't know how to explain to you any other way. Tunneling off rip is weird and not normal. I think everyone tunnels every once in a while, especially if the game is going poorly. Deciding to be an ass and immediately ruin someone's game is just odd.
And then somehow trying to justify it by linking it to looping or SWF? Just so strange and nonsensical.
The more apt comparison would be to a 4-man SWF where every member has 5K hours bringing 4 toolboxes and genrushing builds, then having them t-bag and taunt in EGC. That's basically the Survivor equivalent of what you are doing by tunneling some random solo dude at 5 gens.
once again you say its weird and not normal….according to you. but the amount of people that claim it happens every match suggest it is normal. i could say going in a circle or using comms isnt normal….it is normal but i could still say its weird and not normal just like you can say it for tunneling.
what if i said looping from the start of the match ruined my fun? i could call that an ass move to immediately start looping before i even get a hit. i dont think this, but i could very easily think it and say only loop mid match when the things are going poorly but not from the start.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020021#Comment_4020021
I have genuinely no idea what you are arguing.
You seem to have something against SWF and looping, which is something I expected to see in 2020, not 2025. SWFs still lose far more than they win, even at "High MMR" and looping is totally nonsensical to complain about.
I'm simply saying that if you think you need to tunnel every match, you probably aren't as good as you think you are. You'd be better off not doing it, in the long run. Tunneling is totally fine to do at certain points, but immediately slamming four random players out of ego is insane to me.
no i dont have anything against looping or swf with comms. how do you not understand your argument can be applied the other way around? if someone feels that they need to be in SWF with comms to win and know they cant win solo then by your logic they are better off not doing SWF with comms because they are not as good as they think they are. try winning soloq with no looping and only loop mid match when things are looking dire. you cant see your double standards here?
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@BigStan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019709#Comment_4019709
Where can I see the uninstall count?
i mean if players are playing then they cant be uninstalling unless they are streaming the game rather than having it installed lol. the player count is still up which means either current players are not uninstalling much or new players are installing at the same rate as old players are uninstalling.
When or if the player count drops then yes there would be evidence to suggest many are uninstalling but untill then, it seems like not that many are.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020003#Comment_4020003
Facecamping was normal.
CoH was normal.
We can remove problematic things. Not that deep.
true we can change what is normal but thats not the point. the point is what is currently normal being pulled into question by your comment. the question on if tunneling is problematic is also in question here because myself and others have been countering it with minimal issues and it gets countered in my killer matches too but thats not the point. again your point of tunneling so long i have forgotten how to play "normally" can be applied to people who normally play SWF or normally loop.
how about killers stop tunneling and play "normally" according to you which im guessing is spread hooks? now survivors have to play "normally" according to me which is no loops or maybe no comms in SWF. see how crazy that sounds?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019988#Comment_4019988
Seems like whataboutism
Also theres no way we are complaining about looping in 2025.
no im not complaining about looping at all, i understand its part of the game. just like tunneling is. are we really complaining about tunneling in 2025? its been around for nearly a decade just like looping has. my point is what is playing "normally"? looping has become the norm for the game, just like certain perks or SWF using comms. these are nornal and to be expected. if tunneling is as common as people claim it to be then that would make it normal wouldnt it?? or are basing "normal" on your view of what killer gameplay should be?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019969#Comment_4019969
Sounds to me like you've relied on hard tunneling for so long that you've forgotten how to play normally.
maybe, sounds like many have relied on SWF, looping or certain perks that they cant play normally.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019969#Comment_4019969
In my opinion, and I could be wrong, it sounds more like you've convinced yourself that it's a requirement. It's a bit like going next. As Survivor, you know when a trial is cooked but you don't need to go next. It's just easier to. And yet that was removed, while tunneling still hangs around without any nerfs.
it was not removed at all, people still go next or DC or simply use abandon to go next instead.
im not prepared to endure multiple matches of abuse from survivors while i test your theory of if its actually needed or not…i have already been through that and found my solution which is tunnel, tunnel, tunnel. it doesnt always work and nor should it work 100% of the time. but it works enough.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019956#Comment_4019956
Because it's ironic and frankly silly that you state you need to tunnel while also admitting that you milk it as far as it can go. It's an oxymoron.
i do what i need to do to win, if i need to milk it i will. i know what happens if i dont hard tunnel at 5 gens… i lose. why would i want that?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019948#Comment_4019948
"I tunnel hard at 5 gens"
Crazy thing to admit to.
why? part of the game just like perks or items or survivor tactics like looping, pre run or stealth
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019901#Comment_4019901
it really is running in a circle
Checks spots, knowing when to drop and maximize the loop, mind games, when and where to use your perks…
Most importantly, how do you play against each killer, and in some cases, how you play against specific add-ons.
Discounting all of that is purely disingenuous bias.
But killers are not complaining, they are simply tunneling
Killers are absolutely complaining.
Complaining about how they feel "forced to tunnel", complaining about SWF, complaining about MMR. (Which, you yourself are doing in your post)
And the root cause of these complaints is that tunneling is insanely simple and too effective.
So instead of playing against teams of similar skill, like people should be, instead killers can just tunnel relentlessly and decimate those teams.
Killers are boosting their MMR until they are so far over their heads they can barely keep up. And it's because tunneling gets them there.
stay in a lower bracket so they get less tunnelers?
You have no respect (or maybe don't understand) looping, but think that tunneling is some advanced tactic?
Following the notification and going back to hook is something that anyone can do. My nephew is 5 and could figure that out, and I could program a bot to do it.
The only actual skill involved with tunneling is chase... So knowing how to loop.
as already stated, saying killers need to tunnel to win isnt a complaint, its simply stating the need to do it so they do it. if killers were having a miserable time tunneling and saying "change it, im not having fun" fair enough but they generally dont say that. they just say "we need to tunnel so we will tunnel, not a problem"
im not saying tunneling is advanced or difficult. im saying looping is just as easy to do. i do both, i tunnel hard at 5 gens as killer and loop as survivor so i know how easy both tactics are so i have just as much (or little) respect for looping as i do for tunneling. it seems its mostly survivor mains that rely on looping to demonstrate their "skills" are the ones the get offended when someone calls them out on the fact its really as skillful as they claim. granted some killers are harder to loop than others but M1 killers takes 0 skill to loop, wraith or trapper for example. does it really take skill to loop a pallet…oh killer going the other way so better turn around and go the other way…about the get hit, drop pallet. easy. But that tunneling wraith has to find a way to down that survivor….not so easy.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019901#Comment_4019901
Yeah, this logic just does not follow. "Killers aren't complaining about the high difficulty matches." Oh yes, they are! They swear that tunneling is the only way to win those matches, which means they don't belong in that MMR bracket, because they don't have the skill to match it.
And why did the Killers complain about the tunneling and slugging reduction from the last PTB? Because it would inevitably lead to more losses. And they were right, it would have. But then they could have learned to improve their actual skill and spread pressure and keep all Survivors scrambling instead of leaving three to bust out gens while the one poor sod gets tunneled out. But instead of adapting, they complained, and the system got pulled. Meanwhile, I hear that even more nerfs for Survivors are on the way, such as pallet density and medkit add-ons.
Makes me wonder why people keep asking how much more hand-holding Survivors need when it's obviously the Killers who are getting their hands held, if these recent and upcoming changes are anything to go by.
swearing tunneling is the only way to win isnt a complaint, its acknowledgment. i tunnel, i feel i need to, im not complaining i just do it. if survivors dont like it, they complain but most killers dont have an issue with tunneling or needing to tunnel.
the whole argument of tunneling makes people rise to mmr bracket they dont belong doesnt make sense unless you apply it to SWF that cant win in solo. or survivors cant win without meta perks…. if they need to rely on these things to win maybe they dont belong in that mmr bracket…especially if they cant counter tunneling.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019689#Comment_4019689
It's literally not just running in circles lol if you think that then there's no point in having this discussion. There's a reason looping guides are so popular. There are various different tiles across various different maps, all with their own preferable pathing depending on whether you are killer or survivor. Once you learn this it's easy to use for your own advantage, even as killer. Learning tiles and loops isn’t just for survivors. Other factors like check spots and blood-lust also need to be considered. This is all knowledge you slowly gain as you play more and more.
And to your other point - playing in a swf doesn't suddenly make you a good player. If you go down in chase 10s into a match in solo queue, you're probably going to go down in 10s into a chase in a swf. You dont need to purposely underperform at all. It's not hard to accept that the more you win, the harder your opponents get. It's literally how the game functions currently. If I go up against a good team I accept that they're probably going to win. That's literally all there is to it. There's no equivalent in survivor that can get a new player to rise quickly in MMR the way tunnelling can for new killers. Not even Sprint Burst lol
it really is running in a circle, i do it often enough to know how easy it is to see a pallet and see a potential loop location where i go in a circle and force the killer to drop pallet, then move to another pallet.
Playing SWF doesnt make you a good player, your right, but it can increase your chances of escape. thats my point.
i can be an awful looper, no idea what im doing but if i have a team making call outs so i can pre run, know where the hex totems are, know where my team is leading the chase so i can do gens on the opposite side of the map, know which of my team mates are going for the save and whos staying on gens, know what perks my team mates have, these things make a huge difference and increase my escape chances if im a bad player.
you point of taking a loss instead of tunneling would make sense if the killers were complaining about the super difficulty of the matches they are getting. But killers are not complaining, they are simply tunneling and its the survivors that complain about it. im fine having sweaty matches where i need to tunnel to win…i just tunnel, its not a problem. why would killers want to stop tunneling, take the loss and remain in a lower MMR if they dont have an issue with tunneling? It seems its survivors that have the issue with tunneling killers which they will get more and more in high MMR. so maybe they are the ones that should stop using SWF to raise MMR? stay in a lower bracket so they get less tunnelers? or maybe not use meta perks and loop early on so they dont raise MMR and feel the need to use these perks and loop in high MMR?
Fact is, its the survivors that have the biggest issue with tunneling, so i dont think the view of killers should cop the loss applies but it does apply to survivors that have the issue.
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according to the player count, not that many are uninstalling. the ones that uninstall cant take the heat so they get out the kitchen, which is for the best. better than having them DC all the time out of frustration ruining other peoples matches.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019666#Comment_4019666
Sure, tunneling can be countered. That's why I said it's very difficult to counter, not impossible. But countering it doesn't make it fun to go against. Even in the matches where I managed to run the Killer all game while being tunneled, I still died at the end, even if all my teammates escaped as a result. I can count a grand total of one (1) match I have escaped after being tunneled, and that was only because the teammates took hits for me after my second hook, and I guess they angered him enough to get him off me. But I was still miserable in that match, and I wanted out.
so in matches where you run the killer all match, are you not having fun even if you died at the end? i mean your being chased….thats the fun part of survivor right?
"fun" is subjective, i have fun countering it my way and i wouldnt say its that difficult. im not sweating as survivor and still im countering it. its difficult to understand what some people actually want in the survivor role, they want chases but dont want to be tunneled, they want team play but dont want comms, they want to escape but dont want to touch a gen.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019677#Comment_4019677
Maybe? My post is based on what a dev themselves said. Maybe they have the info on looping too. Though I'd argue becoming a good looper takes more time and experience than being a tunneller does. A new player can pick up the game today and start the ball rolling on tunnelling. Can't say the same for a good looper.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/COJV9S2P2XFW/1000010377.jpg
looping is literally going in circles, i dont think it takes that much skill. a new survivor can go in a circle around a pallet just like a new killer can tunnel except a killer actually needs to down someone to start the tunneling process while a survivor just needs to find a pallet or vault.
based on this whole if you use something to climb the ranks and feel you need it to win this can be applied to literally anything. a player that uses SWF for example, so many have said they wont do solo because its bad and they cant win…maybe these people used SWF to climb the ranks and should cop the loss and stay in the MMR bracket they belong? or someone that just cant win without using sprint burst? maybe they should stop using it, take the loss and stay in the MMR bracket they should be at? where does this mindset end? it almost sounds like people should intentionally under perform in matches to tank their MMR to go against easier opponents.
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@Nazzzak said:
People tunnel because it's the path of least resistance to a win. It's been happening since I first started playing, and its continued to happen through aaalll the different metas and all the nerfs and all the buffs, and it will continue to happen always. Nowadays, with the SBMM system, it helps push players into higher MMR brackets before theyre ready to compete at that level, which is why so many players feel they "need" to tunnel to get results. My advice is always to cop your losses and stay in a suitable MMR bracket. Everyone wants to reach high MMR, and yet everyone simultaneously hates competitive/sweaty opponents lol that's literally who you find up there
does this apply to looping too? survivors loop new killers and then get into high MMR where they feel they need to loop to win?
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@CrypticGirl said:
Because none of those things are the true reason why Killers tunnel. The true reason why Killers tunnel is because it's incredibly easy to do, requires very little, if any skill, and it's extremely rewarding. For Survivors, it takes an insane amount of skill and coordination to counter, the latter of which is way easier said than done in solo queue.
BHVR tried to address that in the last PTB, and I'm sure I don't need to remind you how that went.
So now the question remains, when will BHVR address the true reasons for tunneling? Given what they revealed in yesterday's stream, I'm convinced the answer will be never.
as a tunneling killer myself i can honestly say without tunneling there is no way i could win with certain killers.
Why is it incredibly easy to do? survivors make it easy. (specifically solo players) they unhook too soon often right next to the killer, they dont do gens, the try to play too altruistic, they let themselves be seen, chased and tunneled, they hook heal or dont heal at all, they cant loop and go down in seconds. Again, as killer im not getting 100% kill rate with tunneling, far from it, which means people are countering it.
im soloq and i dont have any coordination with my team or huge amounts of skill and i counter it just fine. i have a multitude of examples but last night bubba DC'ed because they couldnt catch me. tonight a clown and pyramid head DC'ed because they couldnt catch me and other survivor.
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@GuardianoftheCrystal said:
I am at a loss for words right now. I used to LOVE playing killer but now its not even gonna be in my rotation with the bs that survivors are getting. At this rate they just need to change the games name to Alive by Daylight since survivor escape rates are about to hit an insane level soon.
just do what i did, change to survivor… i did that months ago and i have been having a great time. survivor is so much more chilled than killer. i can literally do a gen, hop in a locker, get a quick drink and continue the match as normal and win. if i take a min to get a drink mid match as killer there wont be any gens left when i get back lol.
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@blackmoonrealex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4016492#Comment_4016492
They can add more objectives instead of the sole monotonous repairing of the gens, and make DBD a more than decent game. Have an objective that requires being in chase, have one that involves finding car parts, have one that requires opening the hatch after finding a key, or how about one where you fight the killer?
There’s a good game in here somewhere, but we get subpar simplicity instead.i agree there could be a lot more to the game than simply repair gens, other games have done it like f13th and TCM, they could also make the game have health bars instead of hook states and lose the hooks altogether because lets face it, who enjoys being stuck on the hook with nothing to do? all these changes sum up to a different game entirely and it wouldnt be dbd anymore.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019244#Comment_4019244
Yes, Im doing Gens.
so assuming you were the only one doing gens which is very possible because im often the only one doing gens in my matches, when all 3 survivors were going down faster than you can do gens, did you go for hatch? did you leave them to die? did you try to help?
i just played a match v bubba. they might have been a tunneler or slugger they might not have been, i wouldnt know because i looped them for so long they DC'd. just one example of how to counter a tunneler, loop them well enough and they will either waste too much time getting you down and cost them the match, abandon chase and try someone else or just flat out DC. potential tunneling match avoided before it began.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019207#Comment_4019207
It would be a case of skill issue if I was new to the game and I didnt know what I was doing.
But come a tunneler then its over, just played today, once one teammate is dead its over no chance to comeback.
Had 2 games with a teammate dead at 4 gens left and this is my fault???yes your partly to blame for that….i mean if the killer is tunneling 1 person out, what are the other 3 doing? it should be gens. if the killer can tunnel out 1 person and only 1 gen get done then thats serious misplay by the survivors. when all else fails, there's always the hatch as an escape option. did you go for hatch?
so when I'm killer and i hard tunnel at 5 gens, how are some people somehow getting gens done and escaping? they have to be doing it somehow.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019172#Comment_4019172
No, I'm saying either choice I make always ends the same.
so when is it a case of skill issue? im an average player and im not having an issue. maybe you need more practice being stealthy? as others have pointed out, asian servers have higher escape rate and lower kill rate. what do these people have that you dont? what do i have that you dont? clearly your doing something wrong if nothing you do works but it works for others.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019152#Comment_4019152
I kind of love that that's where we're going now. Everyone in the world has to adjust their playstyle to that of one region that's figured out how to get through this mess rather than the developer taking adequate measures to address the mess itself. And if you don't, then you're not trying. At what point is DBD just a game anymore?
its no different to looping. when the game first came out people were new and got chased around the map. eventually people learnt that looping is highly effective so more people started doing it. for like 9 years looping has become a staple part of dbd. the counter to tunneling is very much the same, tunneling is a tactic thats been around for years, some people have figured out how to counter it but instead of everyone else getting on board like they did with looping they complain.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019159#Comment_4019159
I don't need data to show they have no choice cause that is not my claim about others,
I make the claim that I don't have a choice in it.you dont have a choice but play 1 way? have you tried being less altruistic and stealthy? genuinly curious how you have no choice but play badly
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019062#Comment_4019062
So basically my experience playing on Asian servers
No wonder why killers there have lower killrate and survivors escape more
pretty much lol. it really does work to play more sneakily and less altruistic as solo. im no expert looper but i try to hold out as long as possible if need be and hope my team does gens but my way of playing is do gens on the sly while not being seen, pre run, actually avoid the killer like survivors are meant to. so many people want to get in chase and "interact" with the killer that they will rush in without thinking, get tunneled out then lash out at the killer for tunneling and lash out at me for not helping because we got all gens done and killer got 2k.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019145#Comment_4019145
so no data, ok cool anecdote, but it does not prove your argument.
Honestly I like your argument "change your play style" but it has a fatal flaw that you have no proof everyone is refusing to play better. So you seem to just assume alot about other people.
this whole no data thing swings both ways. you have no data to show people have no choice. your assuming people are forced to play 1 way with no freewill which makes no sense. i might not have hard fact numbers but logic dictates people have freewill and a choice how they play the game. once again, can you answer why people are willingly unhooking infront of the killers face and then complain about tunneling? can you answer why people are not playing stealthy like me so the killer cant tunnel what they cant find? other than their own choice, i cant see why people are making these decisions.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019112#Comment_4019112
What data or proof you have you have substantiate your claim that Survivors fail to counter tunneling out of choice???
- literally every single match i have…. hundreds of matches where people make stupid decisions that enable tunneling. yet i can counter it with minimal issues. how is that? its the choices we make in the match. But the people that play differently and loop well dont get tunneled or if they do its at the detriment to the killer.
- even as killer i hard tunnel at 5 gens every time…am i getting 100% kill rate? no. which means there are counters to it and being killer i can see what counters work against my tunneling and what doesnt. thats how im able to counter it as survivor. i dont have anything special that others dont have. all i do i change my play style…thats it. thats something literally anyone can do, even soloq players.
- what proof do you have that it cant be countered? bare in mind myself and others are currently countering it.
- already said about looping better so its less appealing for the killer, play stealthy so killer cant start tunneling, dont unhook in front of killers face, crank out gens asap while killer is focused on 1 player….means 3 others can do gens in peace. these points have not once had a valid argument against them. every time i say "change play style, it works" there is no argument against it, people just refuse to do it.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019092#Comment_4019092
The problem with your argument is 40% of Killers are not failing at Killing, like how 40% of Survivors fail to deal with tunneling correctly.
out of choice. so if more killers started refusing to counter looping then we should get looping removed? you know perfectly well how many survivors would have something to say about killers flat out refusing to use simple counters thats available to them. its laziness and stubbornness, plain and simple. survivors have the means to counter it, they have the choice to change play style, they choose not to then demand the tactic gets removed. interesting precedent to set, doesnt sound healthy for the game to act like a child and say "i know i can counter it but i wont do it, i will complain about it instead and say how awful of a time im having because of MY OWN CHOICE"
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019085#Comment_4019085
I think rather idd try to get some better changes through and then maybe YOU can pick up a new game instead.
ok so if i fail at killer because im getting looped and dont want to use the counters available to me so i cant get a single hit…we should get better changes through…get rid of looping?
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019062#Comment_4019062
What about my agency? Am I supposed to lick the Killer's toes too?
your agency has nothing to do with it, the fact remains there are counters to tunneling if people choose to use them and choose to use their heads a bit more, if you dont use them because you dont want to or because your agency prevents you thats on you. i think its time to stop complaining about it, accept tunneling will always be a part of the game just like looping is. if i dont like being looped i should either learn to counter it or pick a new game…. same applies to tunneling.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4019014#Comment_4019014
What is your constructive suggesting to fix this?
change play style… play more stealthy, less altruistic, stop unhooking in front of killers face making tunneling easier, do gens, loop better so its less appealing to be tunneled, use perks…there are many ways to counter tunneling.
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@Emeal said:
Most tunnelers dont get many points anyway, I don't think they care about getting more points by not.
And there is nothing in this system that deals with Killer players who just tunnel for malice.You need a system to kick in for repeated consecutive matches in which tunneling was detected.
Otherwise it will just be slightly harder to tunnel, I doubt it will be enough.I will prove it to you BHVR by tunneling like a mad man on the PTB.
tunneling will always remain like it or not. is it time to finally start actually countering it instead of complaining about it?
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018732#Comment_4018732
I can't have the mentality since fun fact. I act selfish(not saying self preservation in dbd is bad) I get called out for it like when NOED was a big deal and never had an aura if you were near death and it happened to show up yeah it meant leave since you didn't want to risk it and then you get called out for it. You try to be a good teammate called out for being terrible or just abandoned even though saved everyone and they were all healthy by the end.
no doubt selfish players will get called out on it and get an onslaught of abuse from survivors and killers…as long as you dont care what they think or say then its all good. i lost count how many times i had abuse from others because i casually walked out the gates while 1 was on hook and the other 2 were trying to save. i even had survivors try to body block me at the gates to stop me from leaving lol i just used sprint burst and went past them.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018746#Comment_4018746
Not if you hide and only ever get hatch. Hatch doesn't raise MMR. Rats can only go so far playing like that.
while your right hatch doesnt raise mmr…it doesnt lower it either. same as abandon. so 20 matches….escape 4 times via gate… abandon 7 matches, get hatch 7 times, get sacrificed 2 times. long game means MMR will go up even if someone only escaped 4 times out of 20 matches.
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@jamally093 said:
I had a Meg who had an entire build just for solo escaping which yeah it's fine....when you're not bothering to take protection hits or even do anything as sorry 3 people left and 1 gen left. But nope hides in a locker which is funny thought that was Dwight's thing not Meg's. I'm sorry but why is it that the game seemingly favors people who don't do anything all match but oops you escaped so it means congrats your at a high skill level. I'm sorry for the rant but I was getting really pissed tonight because of constantly dealing with ending up dead because a teammate constantly kept hiding even though we could have a high chance of escaping if you did something.
i mean if it works it works. if it doesnt work then the meg messed up big time. welcome to soloq lol i learnt the hard way this is often the best way to escape. i cant rely on my team to perform well or take hits for me or even do gens or unhook me. result is, i dont take hits for the team unless it benefits my chances to escape. But when all gens are done, gates open, i dont care if i have 0 hooks and full health with 2 others with me while 1 is on hook….im walking out the gate. if the other 2 want to go for the save they can but im out. likewise if i think my team is going to go down in seconds before the gens can be done im going for hatch not saves. the hate i get is astonishing lol but what do i care when im the sole survivor that escaped?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018670#Comment_4018670
You went from saying VC isn't that bad and interactions are never toxic to saying you have thick skin and you've heard it all. Which is it?
And if you're skin was thick you wouldn't be pressed by something as childish as tbagging, as you stated you are. Just like these people who are pressed about end game chat. Even the ones that say they aren't and just don't realize how absorbing all that hate slowly gets to them and changes their views. You can't have people telling you to off yourself or get cancer everyday and not take some of that in. The views of console players and PC players on the game's toxicity levels vary drastically because of this difference. We just had a post in the last couple hours where someone said they feel survivors as a whole deserve to be tunnelied because of tbagging and chat. And it's a fairly common view. Clearly, these things affect people.
i have never said VC is never toxic, i have said if it bothers people they can press mute. obviously VC would be used negatively as well as positively thats what the mute button is for.
regarding tbagging….i play in a way that means it happens far less because i win but it really doesnt effect me to the point that i think survivors shouldnt be allowed to crouch like the view you have about VC.
regarding end game chat…i played on xbox first and it got boring because it felt like i was playing with bots. no text or comms, just felt like random bots every match. i then started playing on PC and found the amount of people that spout abuse in chat is crazy but its still a lot better than playing on the xbox. i will never go back to having no chat on xbox after playing with chat on PC. people will spout abuse no matter what happens but i find it mildly entertaining when they give abuse after i just won.
my choice is play dbd on xbox or pc…i play with controller on both so thats not a factor. my choice is pc every time regardless of the amount of toxic comments i get post match
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018660#Comment_4018660
The shield is up because 90% of my experiences with VC over a near 2 decades have been negative. I've had this talk with a lot of people and most feel similar. Even in this game I've had people I've immediately deleted because of how unpleasant they were on VC.
In this game, it's not backwards. People add me because I'm an altruistic team player. You make friends by proving yourself in game. The only exception has been people I've met thtough the forum, which allows you to form a pretty solid opinion of someone before playing with them or speaking to them. It'd be nice if the meet up section of the forum was more active, or if there were more ways to meet other similar players without having to speak. Not everyone wants to talk to strangers. The nice thing about texting or playing is you can feel people out first and not have to get blasted with explicitives, music, screaming kids, or whatever other nightmare awaits on the other side.
i think anyone that has played pvp with VC will know the levels of toxicity it can have but i have thicker skin than most it seems. there is literally nothing anyone can say in VC that would effect me, i have heard it all and it really doesn't bother me. maybe loud music playing would annoy me but simple mute and problem solved. how is playing altruistic proving yourself? i can meet very skilled, very altruistic peaple, add them to find they are unpleasant like you said you deleted some. playing nice in the game doesnt prove anything about the person, their views or attitude. my actions in the game might appear toxic to some but they dont see whats going on on my screen, i might have valid reason for not going for a save. They might then think im being toxic and not worthy of friending up due to my actions which i cant explain or justify in the match. if i had VC i could explain my actions and they could see im not being toxic, im doing what im doing for a reason.
personally i think judging someone based on in game actions is a poor way to judge if these people are suitable friends. it might work for you but i dont intend to prove myself as a worthy friend by my in game actions in the hope to earn comms. any friends i make i want to talk to them first before i add them.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4018644#Comment_4018644
Then the chat wheel should be fine. The only way to make that toxic is by using it to lie about info, and that wouldn't touch the potential toxicity of VC.
PC players have a lot of things console players don't, not just chat. This game was made for PC. Console players are second class. Some killers are incredibly hard on controller compared to KBM. Shaders are a good example, and any external settings outside the game. The difference is that a Switch user can never have shaders but VC is available if you jump through a few hoops. You, yourself, just aren't a team player and aren't likely making any friends the way you're playing. That's a choice. Play nice and make friends and you can chat.
lol again with the earn friends to be able to communicate. im sorry its always been you talk to make friends not make friends to then talk. seems a bit backwards to me to add random people who i dont know then talk to them and find out if i like them. i have made some friends playing games but thats because i was able to talk to them in game. we clicked, got on and wanted to play again so we added eachother. if we dont click we simply dont add them. imo you seem to have put up this shield to protect yourself from vile VC which is fine but not everyone needs this level of protection, i certainly dont.