ratcoffee
ratcoffee
About
- Username
- ratcoffee
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
Counterpoint:
If you get near a survivor, work on a gen for 40 seconds, then go for the unhook at the last second, you'll have an injured survivor and 40 seconds of gen progress.
If you unhook them right away, you can heal them up and then get on the gen together - You take 16 seconds to heal, then 24 seconds to work on a gen. 24 seconds of coop gen progress = 24 * (0.85*2) = 40.8 sec of progress. At the end of that 40 seconds + time to run, you get the same amount of progress done and a survivor has an extra health state to work with.
edit: that said, anyone who throws due to being left on hook for "strategic reasons" is an idiot
-
@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832748#Comment_3832748
Have we arrived at a point were we consider 8:30min matches long, though? Yeah, as killer I speedrun a couple of times sub 3min, but this weren't regular matches, the survivors were really feading themselves to me and were stubborn to get that save/finish that gen/pick that survivor up in my face or whatever.
8:30min would mean one hook each 42s, actually faster then that. Thats a pretty breakneck pace, no matter how you cut it.
I wouldn't call it long bit I wouldn't call it short either. It's inside the range for what I would call a normal length game
-
@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832238#Comment_3832238
2k is draw and 3-4k is win.
Pretty sure Ayo is being sarcastic (thus why they said
(could have used meta perks or tunneled and camped and won a 3K I’m sure).
emphasis mine
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831983#Comment_3831983
Did you look at the match result?
Survivors brought a full gen rush setup and the killer has zero slowdown and the match was a draw.
There's clearly plenty that could be done already to tip this particular example into a killer win, but the option OP went with was asking for nerfs instead.
Yeah, I didn't want to be the one to first bring it up, but something about seeing a post where someone got a 2k against a ridiculously stacked SWF with a not-top-tier killer and is asking for survivor nerfs just felt weird.
-
Stunning argument, I'm really convinced. Until a moment ago I thought the fact almost nobody used those two perks meant they were terrible.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
Survivors have every tool available to them to be literally unbeatable. The only reason survivors fail is due to mistakes. That's generally what the game is built around. Perfectly played survivors are unbeatable. Perfectly played killers can still lose. The game comes down to how much the killer can capitalize on survivor mistakes. If a survivor makes a mistake, how much can the killer take advantage of that mistake. That's why the game is killer favored at lower MMR - where survivors are less experienced. The higher you go into the MMR, it starts to slide into the survivors favor. We're flawed in which we'll never play 100% perfectly, so reaching that completely unbeatable gameplay isn't very likely for any human, but the possibility is there. Some survivors are just incredibly good at not making mistakes. That's where you're seeing those 200+ win streaks. In the end, when we're dealing with a situation where we feel killers are OP - it's quite literally a skill issue in this situation. Less mistakes, and killers are easier to handle. Make little to no mistakes, and the killers aren't even a threat. Under certain circumstances, you can even intentionally go down and still win - just depends how well you built up to the moment (such as DS or deliverance at an exit gate) - it literally doesn't matter what the killer can do, you're guaranteed to win. There's a lot of those scenarios that the most experienced survivors play around.
Perfectly played *anything* is unrealistic, and there's a far higher barrier to perfect play for a survivor team, meaning by the nature of the game 4 human survivor players will be further from perfection than 1 killer player
-
"BNP is unhealthy because [thing that's the point of BNP]"
no? Not everything needs to be directly counterable. When going against Pinhead, survivors have to engage with the box, they can't do anything or bring anything that just lets them bypass it.
IDK if I've mentioned on here before my theory that some people play this game with the goal, not the strategy, of denying the other side mechanics. The request to remove mechanics that cannot outright be denied certainly fits in with that theory
-
@GravityHull said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831058#Comment_3831058
>Hopefully never.
That's very negative for a survivor buff/nerf balance>In game voice chat will not magically make strangers decide to cooperate.
It merely gives what others already have>But it will certainly result in a lot more harassment,…
You are aware there will be options to mute, like in other multiplayer games>… children yelling …
This is an 18+ game>..hate speech, ..
Again, mute.>…people blaring crap music down their mic,..
See mute
> and encountering a ton of players who don't speak your language.
Obviously there can be a language spoken.
I'm keen on learning new languages, why haven't you mentioned making new friends, this is very negative what you posted.>And by being integrated in the game itself it will become expected. 'Mute' survivors may be greifed or just lobby-dodged by others,…
Negative again with greifed rather than view it as something more than what is available.>and the game balance will shift to buffing killers in response.
I'm sure this may be where the main group of survivors already using this for unfair advantages may dislike this idea but again this is only balance and the killers need not be buffed as they already may be at that level or should be buffed if at only solo no comms level… shouldn't they??
>Players who don't opt in to use it will be worse off than they are now.
If players are offered an extra plate of food they don't have to eat it, they can view it or even ignore it but it should be offered as it is far more fairer.>If you need to play with people you can communicate with, join a discord and play in a SWF.
If it isn't in the game should you really be using 3rd party software to gain unfair advantages?
BHVR aren't a small company, they should be able to be like other multiplayer companies rather than use something small minded/shabby like Discord.> The option already exists. You might even make some friends.
Exactly, that is what you should be taking into communications being in the game, making new friends.
As yet I see no option already existing only 3rd party software which is unfair on solo survivors and killers with balancing and fun issues.This is an 18+ game
So is call of duty, but that series has been the go-to example for "games with 12 year olds yelling slurs in voice chat" for nearly 2 decades
-
when facing survivors of the highest skill level and with the best coordination and loadouts, even the strongest killer players struggle to keep up. a lot of people think that this is meaningful for some reason.
in reality, the balance as it relates to the top couple hundred to a couple thousand players (at best) for a game that's sold at least 60 million copies is hardly helpful. the game needs to be balanced like that for the remaining 59,997,500 or whatever players to have fair games - there are 4 potential points of failure for a survivor team, but only 1 for the killer. compound that with the fact that most survivor matches don't have communication, or if they do it's just idle chatter among friends or the kind of thing that can be seen on the survivor HUD anyway, and I hope it's obvious why it doesn't matter that the top 0.005% of the player base can almost always win using teamspeak/discord/skype
-
@Burniebotss said:
sorry to burst your bubble, but it’s a viable strategy that is used to get pressure, same as spread out in gens. It makes heavy pressure. If killer instantly hooks after down they risk stun and either way they gain pressure to win. That one they are waiting for the idiot on hook to die so they can mori. If you hate a viable strategy (unless it’s just for being toxic than I agree) but we can’t add anti slug without is being abused
it's wild to read this post from you after having just seen your other post:
When someone complains about SWFs, which are a viable strategy used to get pressure, the tone you take is sympathetic. "Unfortunately" and all that.
When someone complains about slugging, it's condescending - you're not going to tell me you don't understand how dismissive "sorry to burst your bubble" is.
Why the double standard?
-
@LordGlint said:
Something tells me if the killer could decide they didn't wanna bother when they noticed the smallest inconvenience at the start of the match, some people would have their minds changed on the topic of "just go next". You'd also probably have less map offerings get used.
i remember seeing a video from someone on twitter the last time they removed DC penalties where they were playing killer and just disconnecting every time a map they didn't like loaded
-
Personally I wish that hooking granted some sort of progression for the killer's win condition, maybe like a flag or a tally on the survivor that got hooked. If I manage to hook the same survivor 3 times, they get killed, similar to how they normally die if I let them bleed on the ground for 4 minutes. Too bad BHVR would never make a mechanic like that 😉
-
Flashlight saves are easier now because they removed flashlight clicking, which could be used to micro-adjust your timing if you knew you were a shade too early. IMO they should bring back old flashlight mechanics.
-
@Ayodam said:
META means Most Efficient Tactic Available. That is going to vary from game to game. I believe DBD is more true to that meaning than other games where META is used to describe overpowered mechanics.
that's a backronym. "meta" originates from "metagame," which refers to the phenomenon wherein the way you decide to approach playing the game becomes a game in-and-of itself, which is what you're doing when you theorycraft what's the best possible build.
the backronym feels fitting because we're calling it the "most effective tactic available," but we're only able to guess at what that most effective tactic is. for instance, I think on reflection, playing for slugs may have been the most effective tactic since at least 6.1, and we simply had hooks so ingrained in our habits that we never considered it. slugging would have been the most effective tactic, but it wasn't the meta - the meta is more accurately the profile of the range of tactics people feel are most likely to give them an advantage in the situations they're most likely to face. not quite the same.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825789#Comment_3825789
Yeah, it sure would be a shame if the team of players were required to "checks notes" play as a team.
i know you're smarter than this. you're smart enough to know that there's a fat line between a generic "play as a team" and the far more specific "countering [thing] requires the entire team being on voice comms."
-
Probably just improving visibility while in deep wound, remove that awful dark filter
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3825950#Comment_3825950
don't you see anything strange with a perk that is supposed to be a training wheel actually being #1 perk by pickrate amongst survivors?
It's not supposed to just be training wheels, though. It lets survivors know what pallets have been used by their teammates and which are still up, which is extremely useful in solo queue where your teammate might hose one whole side of the map (although personally I don't use windows, preferring to just wing it in whatever part of the map the killer finds me at). It has training wheel elements, but it has other uses too.
Honestly I think they should make Alert base kit, that way survivors don't need a perk to know what pallets got kicked, but they still have to remember where that happened
-
I personally don't want it nerfed, but I've found when a weaker player is using it, the game gets a whole lot more boring without getting any harder because they follow a much more linear play style - linear as in making fewer decisions.
Even though I don't think it should be nerfed, I understand why someone might want to face fewer people playing the "I have windows" chase style
-
@Xernoton thought you might find this thread interesting
-
@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823990#Comment_3823990
I never said it wasn't. If you need to manufacture things I never said, I've proven my point.
-mic drop-
Hey man, I noticed you never responded to my post here:
@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823908#Comment_3823908
I also did not ask killers to avoid any particular play style. I was discussing the amount of fun I have with various different gameplay styles when I play killer, and objecting to the idea that certain play styles are strictly necessary in order to win.
I wonder if you could find some time to respond to it, since you think
manufactur[ing] things [the other person] never said
is such a bad offense
-
@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823895#Comment_3823895
At the end of the day - asking killers not to do certain things because it's "not fun for you" is silly, and yes, it's entitled.
Killers are expected to not do certain things as hand outs to provide a fun game for their opponents. That energy has not, and will not, ever, be reciprocated. What's in it for killers following a fake rulebook? Not getting told to hurt ourselves in the end game chat? Cause with the amount of 2nd chance perks and base kit 2nd chances being thrown in killers faces, the amount of unfun maps, unfun loops, boring predropping, artificial chase extenders etc etc, I could go on, survivors give absolutely zero reason for killers to pander to nonsense survivor rules.
I also did not ask killers to avoid any particular play style. I was discussing the amount of fun I have with various different gameplay styles when I play killer, and objecting to the idea that certain play styles are strictly necessary in order to win.
-
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823487#Comment_3823487
You defined fun by bloodpoints. A killer not getting hooks is not getting bloospoints. Yet it's totally fine to not give killers free hooks so they can enjoy bp.
Killers yet are expected to make sure every survivor gets enough bp by playing in a way that is effectively throwing.
I did not define fun by bloodpoints. I defined fun by "getting a chance to engage in as wide a range of the available gameplay mechanics as possible." I did not mention bloodpoints at any point in this thread until just now. I find it very disrespectful towards me that you have claimed arguments that I did not make.
-
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817815#Comment_3817815
i don't see survivors giving killers free hooks if the Killer hasn't been able to catch survivors. Don't you care about the killer fun?
I care about everyone's fun, that's why I encourage people to play in a way that everyone gets to experience the widest range of gameplay mechanics available. When survivors consistently win chase, killers still get the chance to play hide-and-seek, to play tag, to kick gens; the only thing they don't get to experience is hooking survivors, which I'm told by other members of this forum is something killers don't like doing anyway.
Moreover, I personally wouldn't find survivors giving me free hooks to be at all fun. I will keep it in mind that you personally think it's reasonable for killers to expect that from survivors, though
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823407#Comment_3823407
when did i say all survivors are bad?
Sorry for using hyperbole. If I had known you would focus on it without addressing the actual point I was making I wouldn't have used it
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823340#Comment_3823340
let me be clear one more time.
Average survivor severely lacks macro knowledge.
Average survivor player doesn't know how to get use of a hooked player for the advantage of their team over killer.
On the same side, average killer player will look for the most effective ways to win the game.
Tunneling "at 5 gens" is severe skill issue on survivor side and actually only smart and effective application of tunneling on killer's side if survivors actually know how to play the game.
So then, should we balance the game around how good players perform against bad players? Should we really make this game impossible to play as one side at actual high skill levels because average player on other side still can't manage to counter such strat as tunneling even after 8 years?
Riiight. When survivors struggle it's because all survivors are bad, when some killers struggle it's because the game is balanced against killers 🙂🙂🙂
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822678#Comment_3822678
Its almost as if the game would be much more fun for both sides if the game was balanced around hooks instead of kills. But people keep saying that tru3ta1ent doesn't know what he is talking about…
tbh tt liking the idea of balancing around hooks is one of the biggest broken clock moments in dbd
also the fact you attribute "balance for hooks" to him explains so much lol
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823300#Comment_3823300
You had me until the last sentence. Before deciding [waves hands in the general direction of this forum and a large % of the player base's attitude] wasn't worth it and uninstalling probably for good I got ~100 3+k streak on Wraith only going for hooks and trying to 12 hook as often as possible. It's still technically going, come to mention it. Hooking is definitely still decently strong. If anything, I would have come to the conclusion "slugging shouldn't be this strong"
your argument is based on two things:
- the skill gap between you and average person that reached soft MMR cap (you kept improving, but you will still be matched with people between soft and hard MMR cap no matter what, and amount of people closer to soft MMR cap is much bigger)
- not analyzing how your opponents play and what mistakes they make (and average pub survivors makes awfully lot of mistakes due to low macro knowledge) and then rushing to making a "black and white" conclusion that…hooking is still very strong.
I managed to get winstreaks with Agi only in my loadout as Oni. Does it mean killers are so strong that you can play them perkless and win? No, it means that MMR system is extremely flawed, because when you first reach soft MMR cap, you will be matched with people around 1600 MMR score, but at the same time if you keep improving yourself and increase your MMR score, you will still be matched with people around 1600 MMR score.
That's not balance related, that's skill gap related.
Feel free to tell that to the people who think hooking is an auto lose 🤷♂️ you said it not me
If "I can win without perks" is, as you said, a skill gap thing, surely other scenarios, such as "I can't win the way the devs designed the game and must resort to cheese strats" fall into that same category
-
@Akumakaji said:
Slugging for the bleedout is like a sudden "Oh no!!!" moment. Everyone is sitting on their gens and letting them pop, besides that one survivor that desperately tries to pick up their mate. Eventually everyone notices that 1/2 of the bleedout timer are up and they come rushing and poking at you and you can take potshots at this or that one, sometimes they might pick the slug up, but without certain perks you send them down immediately and maybe get a second down. This is where things get extremely dangerous, because when you can get the third one, the game is effectively over, so you can now more deliverately hunt down the others.
By this time the first slug is probably dying, reliving the killer of a big pressure and basically handing them the game. One of the two remaining survivors might even give up at this point, so that hunting down the last one becomes just a small task of whittling down ressources and maybe defending the general area with the slugs.
This is how a typical slug-for-bleedout match could play out, I experienced this a couple of times during my bleedout test and yeah, its pretty effective, because you only have to deal with UB once per survivor max. Its not fun, but its more effective then going for hooks and/or tunneling. And THATS the problem. Hooking shouldn't be this weak.
You had me until the last sentence. Before deciding [waves hands in the general direction of this forum and a large % of the player base's attitude] wasn't worth it and uninstalling probably for good I got ~100 3+k streak on Wraith only going for hooks and trying to 12 hook as often as possible. It's still technically going, come to mention it. Hooking is definitely still decently strong. If anything, I would have come to the conclusion "slugging shouldn't be this strong"
-
1 in 432 chance to get the same item with the same add-ons in the same order (at least when the item is a key. Different items have different probabilities)
-
@TimelessData said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821626#Comment_3821626
Depends on who you watch on stream i personally watch true talent , otz and a fair few 100 mains. Survivors in high mmr especially if they’re a swf will easily escape most of the time. 100% communication is insanely strong.
48.3% escape rate is not "most of the time"
-
hooks are so weak for killers now, survivors don't even need to unhook!
-
@Crowman said:
On Heal Tech, it's not a bug. It's just how BHVR programmed survivor-killer interactions. As far as I'm concerned, it's intended behavior and the only time it really matters is in very niche situations at the exit gate.
On Crouch Tech. This is likely a bug and not all bugs are quick fixes.
On Chucky. This sounds like a bug and will likely get fixed.
I don't think there's a double standard here.
I've seen BHVR employees say "heal tech" is intended i'm pretty sure
-
What's the risk?
Edit: I see you say you're fairly new. There's already a Treavor Belmont perk that does this - it upgrades the item and recharges 25% of the charges on a 30 second cooldown. 100% charges would be OP, 25% is generally pretty fair.
-
@TimelessData said:
but the issue is the killer should be a threat and they’re not high level surv just are toxic t bag cuz they know they’re the power roll I don’t expect to win every game but when I’m struggling to get 1 even 2 and depending on the map it’s just bs I don’t feel powerful and that’s the issue
Survivors in high mmr die more frequently than the average & I rarely see teabagging in high mmr killer streams
maybe you're not as high mmr as you think, or maybe your mmr is boosted from where it would be from your current skill level
-
@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820569#Comment_3820569
See, balancing is a delicate thing. Players were already in arms when the gen time was uped from 80 to 90s, if gen time where at base 120s the player base would be up the walls and full on rioting.
Same with base DH and Unbreakable. Why must everything be basekit? If a perk is worth having in your kit, then equip it, why dilute the variety and further and cement the meta in concrete, because the survivors can have everything they want without any disadvantages?
You're right, if gens went to 120 seconds, killer queues would go to 10-15 minutes
-
Tbh Badham needs nerfs
-
Cool idea tbh
however if your finger hurts from holding shift you either need a better keyboard or you need the finger exercise to increase your hand strength
-
@CrossTheSholf said:
Last year the void was basically a free health state for survivors
ok
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817948#Comment_3817948
Again, you ignore the actual point. Gen rush is a play style as well. It means that you ignore everything else, bring specific perks and items and stop healing to push out gens as fast possible. That is not normal survivor gameplay but a playstyle that is decided in the lobby.
You could make the argument that tunneling is more of a natural playstyle because it doesn't involve any offerings, addons or perks.
He didn't complain about players who "ignore everything else, bring specific perks and items and stop healing to push out gens as fast as possible" or any other concretely defined and specific version of gen rushing, though, he complained about "gens get done too fast." If you truly oppose Us vs Them to the extent you claim to, I highly suggest you examine why you immediately assumed the most charitable interpretation of what the person favoring only the Killer experience said, to the point where you entirely rewrote what they said, but you took exception to and actively opposed what the person who was also considering the survivor experience in addition to killer gameplay. I certainly hope you saw what you thought was the aesthetic of Us vs Them in my post and responded to that without stopping to properly read the thread (let's be honest, we all do it, and given the length of the thread that's a perfectly valid excuse) because if not, well...
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820235#Comment_3820235
This is literally describing why distortion exists at all, because the only "base kit" aura blocking is to be in a locker. And, well, nearly everything killers can do has at least one perk that reveals auras now, so you'd have to spend the entire match in a locker to counter them.
repeat after me. Auras ONLY make it easier for killer to find a survivor, they don't auto-win chases. Basic gameplay counters to aura reading perks are good chase knowledge and knowledge, while there are NO basic gameplay counters to flashbang being thrown right below you.
Some aura reading perks deserve to be nerfed (NTH, Weave and Predator, people aren't even complaining about NTH enough) and magically only aura perks people keep using the "Distortion was the only counter" argument for are literally the perks that sould burn through the tokens anyways, meaning people defending Distortion don't even have idea what they are talking about, they just want to defend their refusal to improve in terms of chases and refusal to interact with the killer at all.
repeat after me. Flashbangs ONLY make it harder for killer to hook a survivor, they don't auto-blind on pick ups. Basic gameplay counters to flashbangs are situational awareness and knowing there aren't any survivors within 6 meters.
Seriously. Flashbang delay is 2 seconds, survivor pick up animation is 3 seconds. Survivors have 1 second to get into place for their flashbang play, so even with BGP they need to be within about 6 meters when you start the pickup animation.
-
@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819662#Comment_3819662
This might be me not having English as my first language and completely misunderstanding what the term means, but aren't situations where there's no right choice also considered lose-lose situations?
So, imagine a 1v1, the hatch spawns on a hill, and from the hill both gates can be seen.
As the killer can stand perfectly still and protect all 3 exits, this forces the survivor into a lose-lose situation, as no matter what the survivor does, they will die. They either don't do anything and die by EGC timer, or try to open the gates and die by the killer's hand.
I'm checking Wikipedia and it does seem to mention something like that:
In game theory, a "no-win" [or lose–lose] situation is a circumstance in which no player benefits from any outcome, hence ultimately losing the match. This may be because of any or all of the following:
>
Unavoidable or unforeseeable circumstances causing the situation to change after decisions have been made. This is common in text adventures.> Zugzwang, as in chess, when any move a player chooses makes them worse off than before such as losing a piece or being checkmated.
>
A situation in which the player has to accomplish two mutually dependent tasks each of which must be completed before the other or that are mutually exclusive (a Catch-22).>
Ignorance of other players' actions, meaning the best decision for all differs from that for any one player (as in the prisoner's dilemma).While Wikipedia does seem to mention it's a "circumstance in which no player benefits", they also seem to add that a particular player having to chose between options that only have bad outcomes do count as "lose-lose situations".
Yeah, I basically forgot about that definition and then I phrased my response poorly and sounded more condescending than I meant to - I wanted to communicate that I still disagreed while acknowledging that's a fair use of the term "lose-lose" but I don't think I got that fully across. I did acknowledge that in another comment but it was a lot further down and I know it can be a slog getting through every comment so I understand not seeing it.
-
@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819889#Comment_3819889
You have not played killer and received a FB through a wall and it shows
I certainly hope I haven't ever gotten flashbanged through a wall, walls are supposed to block flashbangs. If a survivor ever dropped a flashbang on one side of a wall and i got blinded on the other side, I would imagine that would be classified as a bug.
-
@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819662#Comment_3819662
Yes thanks for correcting me for not needing a correction
Wasn't trying to correct you, just wanted to make sure I understood what you meant, as I was used to one definition of "lose-lose." Your way of using it makes sense too now that you explained it. I was maybe a little condescending by accident in explaining why I was confused, my bad.
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819958#Comment_3819958
it's a reset that, along with the whole build:
- significantly extends your chase if killer decides to pick you up OR gets you 2 health states without any other teammate required to come and completely reset you by only holding M1 while on the ground for the duration of basic pick up timer.
- drastically reduce the amount of pressure efficiency for the killer.
IMO the strongest part of this combo is the "- mental" debuff against players whose win con is to deny gameplay to their opponents
this is actually what average survivor that has 0 chase knowledge, but prays to god they will manage to play a mental game on the killer and make that killer completely avoid them after they get unhooked thinks and is of course…completely incorrect.
Once your macro in the game improves, you will understand.
Ah my bad, I thought knowing what 3/4 of someone's perks are and knowing exactly where they are on the map, that they'll be out of commission for the next 30 seconds, and knowing the fact they're spening far more time than was necessary getting healed to full, was advantageous for the killer. Glad I've got far more experienced players to tell me that actually, survivors wasting their time while lying on the ground is actually a bad thing.
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819889#Comment_3819889
you don't have to bring lightborn to counter flashbang, it's just the most extreme example of an obvious counter to this situation you claimed is an auto-lose for killers.
if you throw the flashbang almost right below the killer, they will be blinded no matter what. Looking up, looking at the wall, nothing in the aspect of basic gameplay works + it's the way to still be able to do locker saves, even with the fact that it was removed for flashlights.
also how the heck do you aggressively plot twist
it is used in aggressive anti-tunneling builds, after forcing initial OTR hit, you can Plot Twist to make killer be able to do only one of two things, either pick you up and eat DS or they will be forced to slug you and let you get a free reset. It's excellent for both offensive and defensive usage.
It's not a free reset though, it's a reset that costs at minimum 1, and in your scenario 3 perk slots, and takes more time than either a med kit or an altruistic heal. IMO the strongest part of this combo is the "- mental" debuff against players whose win con is to deny gameplay to their opponents
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819791#Comment_3819791
Flashbang: killer brings lightborn, now survivor had a dead perk slot and wasted time following the killer for a flashbang
having to bring perk B to counter perk A because there is no basic gameplay counter to perk A literally means perk A is problematic and needs to be tweaked.
Plot Twist + DS: ignore the unhooked survivor and suddenly they have 1 dead perk slot and 1 perk slot to do something they could do faster with a med kit and no perk slot wasted.
1. Anti-tunneling perks are NOT ONLY USED AS A COUNTER TO TUNNELING. Both their defensive and offensive way of usage are highly effective, and if killer doesn't chase you after you've been unhooked, that does NOT mean you wasted perk slots.
2. "and one perk slot to do something they could do faster with a med kit and no perk slot wasted"...what even is this take? People using these builds literally always bring medkits too and they will literally have 2 completely free self resets and will cancel killer's pressure + lead to lose-lose situations easily. Bringing a syringe additionally brings even higher overkill.
One thing can definitely noticed. Majority of this game's playerbase has not even a close idea of how many stuff they can use is powerful because those perks are locked behind a higher skill floor than other "simpler" perks. That's why huge chunk of the strongest survivors perks and strategies are the ones extremely slept on by an average survivor player, or it depends on region (many EU players are very well aware of powers of these, while e.g. many NA players don't have even a close idea of how strong they are)
having to bring perk B to counter perk A because there is no basic gameplay counter to perk A literally means perk A is problematic and needs to be tweaked.
you don't have to bring lightborn to counter flashbang, it's just the most extreme example of an obvious counter to this situation you claimed is an auto-lose for killers.
also how the heck do you aggressively plot twist
-
@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819656#Comment_3819656
a situation where whatever decision killer makes to do with the survivor, it's technically the wrong decision that ends up wasting killer's time.
Examples:
Flashbang: no matter if you look at the wall, if flashbang is dropped lowkey right below you, you are getting blinded anyways.
Plot Twist + DS: killer wants to pick you up? They eat up the DS, you get free time to run to a nearby safe tile. Killer decides to slug you because they are aware of DS? You will reset back to healthy state and boom, killer again at loss
Old FTP + BU: Killer slugs? Bad decision. Killer doesn't slug? You get to use combo mid pickup animation and survivor gets up with free endurance.
WGLF: similar to old FTP+BU when combined with MFT
BGP: killer picks up survivor instantly? Free save.
Killer slugs in order to check if someone wants to save? Free save because you can jump in for a save quickly even if you are significantly distanced from a survivor that is about to be picked up.
Flashbang: killer brings lightborn, now survivor had a dead perk slot and wasted time following the killer for a flashbang
Plot Twist + DS: ignore the unhooked survivor and suddenly they have 1 dead perk slot and 1 perk slot to do something they could do faster with a med kit and no perk slot wasted.
Old FTP + BU: it was kinda BS tbh, but you could always turn around and hit the person who was following you, and I once had a game where a random duo saved me from a tunneler like 4 times and the knight rage quit so on the other hand, lol
WGLF: lol
BGP: lol
-
@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819656#Comment_3819656
flashbang lose lose is no matter what you do you get blinded
wglf lose lose is it immediately lose pressure in seconds
Usually when people say "lose-lose" they mean "a scenario where everyone involved is forced into a result that is bad for them personally"
When you say "lose-lose" do you mean "uncounterable," as in no matter what you do you will "lose" because you fail to counter the perk? Neither of those perks are uncounterable either.
-
@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3819656#Comment_3819656
Equipping perks as survivor apparently.
TBH the real lose-lose is choosing to queue up for a game of DBD. You lose because you have to play DBD, and your opponent loses because they have to play DBD. that's a real lose-lose right there
-
what's the lose-lose?