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ratcoffee
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817942#Comment_3817942
If you simplify it to that extend, then of course it sounds like Us vs. Them. But the same could be done with tunneling and camping.
Killers aren't complaining that gens get done at all but about how fast it happens. Just as survivors don't complain that killers kill them at all. They complain about how fast it happens and the strategies used.
The difference is that the survivor complaints are about play styles where people engage in the minimum possible number of gameplay mechanics and the killer complaints are that survivors are not choosing to completely ignore their win con, hope this helps.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3817815#Comment_3817815
Come on, stop it with the Us vs. Them.
Neither of this is even remotely true. Because it's an overgeneralisation of what a very small minority of players think.
First and foremost both sides want to have fun. Many get their enjoyment out of winning, so that's what they will try to do. Survivors and killers both. The problem is that the strategies that lead to wins are often very unfun for the other side.
Killers don't like it, if the match is over before anything really happened and survivors don't like it if they can't play the full game because the killer slugs / tunnels / camps. All of these have their place in the game but should probably become more situational, which at least with tunneling and camping seems to be the case because we have a lot more anti tunnel perks now and base kit changes to camping.
We also see a huge amount of complaints about aura vision, which really only leads to the killer finding you more often and creates more actual interaction. This is mostly due to overexposure I assume but still it goes against what you said.
Everyone has their pet peeves with the game (I for example don't like if survivors play for pallet saves because it forces me to slug) and pretending otherwise just results in pointless Us vs. Them.
Personally I think complaining about gens getting done (in the abstract) is far more Us vs Them than anything I said
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816226#Comment_3816226
"Unfun" is your opinon. What about the killer's fun?
I find gens popping fast to be "unfun", let's make it so when a gen is done, all gens are regressed by half.
"Unfun" … sigh.
Survivor definition of unfun: killer plays in a way that everyone, killers and survivors, gets the minimum total possible amount of gameplay interactions imaginable
Killer definition of unfun: survivor plays in a way
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816580#Comment_3816580
Watching paint dry is a false equivalency lol maybe a security guard or prison guard is more apt? The killer has to make sure there are no survivors going for the save and if they do then chase them off to try keep the survivor hooked. so it's not simply watching mindlessly like you say. To that point yes I do find guarding a hooked survivor fun, making sure they are not freed and if they are then making sure I catch them asap eliminate them and win the match. If my choice is to guard a hook survivor or go in circles with another survivor looping endlessly then I pick guarding the survivor (I already endured the boring bit of going through the loops to down the survivor so I'm going to get my worth out of it and keep them hooked if I can)
Each to their own but fun is subjective, personally I find playing the game my way is fun for me...even more fun when salty survivors complain about it as if it's my responsibility to make the game fun for them at the expense of my own fun.
it's not a "false equivalency[sic]" it's literally just how boring I personally find the hook-camping playstyle, from the perspective of the killer; i would genuinely rather watch paint dry as i would find it more productive and as fun.
the devs have frequently described the game as a horror-themed tag game, so, sorry you don't enjoy the horror-themed tag part of the horror-themed tag game i guess?
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816398#Comment_3816398
The objective of the killer is to disable the survivors and remove them from the match to prevent them doing gens and escaping. If you don't like being disabled or making sure the survivors are eliminated then dbd isn't for you. That's the game you choose to play
i play killer to chase survivors not to stare at them. if i wanted to play like you're defending i would follow around an interior designer and watch paint dry instead
that way i can do the same thing (stare for prolonged periods at something that isn't moving) be useful to someone and tell them when it's time to apply a new coat instead of making 4 people's day more boring (3 because they're forced to just do gens and not do alturism or chases or side objectives, 1 because they're forced to just run away from you and not do gens or alturism or side objectives)
if you wanna pay for a game to play in the most mathematically boring way possible go ahead be my guest
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816226#Comment_3816226
"Unfun gameplay" ...what is fun for you might not be fun for others and vice versa
if you think staring at something that is hanging 16 meters away from you for about a minute is fun go to the lourve and visit the mona lisa instead of playing a multiplayer video game and flat out denying one player 75% of the gameplay mechanics
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@MrRetsej said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816236#Comment_3816236
You had a bad game against a high-map traversal killer. Get over it and go next. The time it took you to draft this post, respond to comments, and ultimately ignore any contrary opinions indicates you don't actually want a discussion, you just want to vent and rage. Perhaps a break to other games might help.
please compare my username to the following:
i am not the person who made this thread. i am just a random bystander who is tired of the "AFC != Anti-camp" argument because it always misses the point of what people are actually complaining about every time. i am also currently already taking an extended break from DBD, one which I very well may not come back from at all. I agree with you, however. I think more survivors should take extended breaks from DBD. Maybe when killer queues start getting longer than the matches themselves, killer players will start reflecting on how their own playstyle might be affecting the community
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@Grungelives_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816228#Comment_3816228
those perks were just examples and im not referring to myself anyways lol im simply stating how 2 of many perks let alone all the killers who have aura reading ad ons can chew through Distortion stacks.
There are defo some killer aura perks I think need nerfed too tbh, I just got tired of teammates who would hide with distortion all game & i think new Distortion is still viable. If Distortion is at 1 charge per 15 seconds chase time, that still costs multiple killer perks to partially counteract one survivor perk.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816226#Comment_3816226
It’s not nonsense. It does what it was designed to do. You not caring about the differences between AFC and Anti Camping ≠ everyone’s opinion.
Devs are not going to remove camping in general and take away Killer agency just because Survivors don’t like it.
If the OP wanted to discuss un-fun mechanics, they should have been more constructive with their post rather than just whine.
God forbid Survivors get to play the game
seriously, complaining about "devs won't take away Killer agency" in response to a a complaint that the current state of the game can allow a killer to deny a survivor all agency and force them to hold a hook for 140 seconds? reads as someone who thinks survivor players exist as servants to fill your Killer lobbies, absolute disrespect. could not disagree with your perspective more
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All ears only activates once every 30 seconds, enough to recharge both stacks, and that assumes absolute worst case scenario for survivors
tbh if you're dropping pallets fast enough to chew through distortion stacks at 15 second recharge, good, getting aura read will make you go down and stop wasting pallets so someone who knows how to use map resources properly can take chase
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@Huge_Bush said:
It’s not Anti-Camp. It’s Anti-Face Camp. It’s meant to give Survivors more of a chance to coordinate a rescue, not make them immune to all of camping. Seeing as how the Killer had to stay outside of its range so it doesn’t procc, it’s doing its job.
I’m also pretty sure the Killer would have been happy for you to go next. It’s your teammates who are the ones that are affected the most.
"It's not anti camp it's anti face camp"
It's not a complaint about the mechanics not doing what it says it'll do, it's a complaint about how the mechanic fails to prevent unfun gameplay. Nobody cares "it's anti face camp" get out of here with that nonsense
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because it is in terms of kill rate and result distribution.
killers have a 57:43 kill to escape ratio, a 51:36 win to lose ratio, and a 57.5% adjusted winrate. all the numbers are in their favor. i personally think it's good for the game to be killer sided, but right now it's killer sided in a way that's miserable for both roles instead of being fun for both roles - it would be better if the game was killer sided in a way that was fun for both sides
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Actually this deserves its own thread, will update in a bit when I have a break at work
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Here's an alternative idea:
- disable the offering and remove it from blood webs, but keep it in inventories
- Investigate a way of letting people refund offerings for a fraction of the BP
- Once you figure out how to do that, auto-refund everyone's yellow moris for the full amount of their value and then some
- Release a feature that leta people sell back their unwanted items/add-ons/offerings for a fraction of the cost
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@bjorksnas said:
Yep I can imagine an average killer with a full aura build now. They are losing unless there is an extremely weak link they can take out early in 10s chases that gets farmed in their face. Or its nurse (they don't run franklins + weave attunement)
You should try running a full area build on someone like Huntess. Bring a map like Dead Dawg, hit some juicy cross-maps, it's fun
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3810786#Comment_3810786
….. the killer has like 18+ hooks to get. You want 18+ chances for hooks to fail…. so instead of hooking 18 times, your going to be hooking 30 times. that is a large problem alongside fact that with 8 survivors, the opportunity cost for doing these activities is considerable smaller than 1vs4.
a flashlight save requires 1 player down and 1 player off-gens. that is 50% of the team. In 2vs8, 2 player is 25% of the team. It is far lower player investment. it is literally going encourage tunneling.
Did they say they were removing the cage mechanic & going back to regular hooks or something?
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He's solid imo. If you're performing well as him, it's probably a combination of you being good and some people misjudging his strength.
A decent number of people on these forums want to be able to play super relaxed and not worry about complex mechanics, and Dracula's design inherently isn't that. Some people misinterpret that as "Dracula is bad" instead of "Dracula is not the kind of killer I want to play"
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Sure am glad I decided to take an extended break recently, if people are experiencing no-hook gameplay to this extent.
I guess I'm gonna have to eat my words. I've been very vocal about thinking people won't switch to slug-only gameplay in reaction to hook changes, but it seems like a significant portion of the killer community are so [my mother taught me if I have nothing nice to say, say nothing] that they have swapped to that particular gameplay style.
Honestly I think 4 person slugging with Knock Out has probably been OP for a while now (it counters everything except 4-person SWFs with strong communication, and since those groups are a tiny sliver of all teams itends up dominating), and people have historically been unwilling to see that or at least considerate enough to not engage in such boring gameplay.
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Tunneling is fine I enjoy getting tunneled
Slugging is generally fine unless it's ego-slugging (slugging to intentionally bleed out or to secure a 4k despite not knowing where the 4th survivor is). there are plenty of situations where slugging is the only option
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@tippy2k2 said:
Wait a minute, there's something bothering me about this place…
I KNOW!
This place doesn't have a Fire Exit! Enjoy your Death Trap survivors!!!
What was her problem?
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For evey player with [4 useless perks] going against [4 OP perks], there is a player with [4 OP perks] going against [4 useless perks]
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i win plenty of games as m1 killer, sounds like a skill issue tbh
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Hopefully not
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3801551#Comment_3801551
The problem here is that survivor teams who make no mistakes will pretty much always win. Killers who make no mistakes can still lose. At highest skill levels, it's about killers having to take advantage of survivor's making bad plays. If they aren't, then unless the killer is playing nurse\blight, it's over before it begins.
There's no such thing as "killers who make no mistakes," just "killers who haven't realized what their mistakes were," at least as far as human players go.
Same thing with survivors, there's no such thing as "survivor teams who make no mistakes," just "survivor teams whose mistakes you failed to identify"
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@MrRetsej said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798426#Comment_3798426
Nightlight's numbers are irrelevant to the conversation.
The kill rates people quote from are those supplied from BHVR directly and do not coincide with those from nightlight.
Furthermore, the BHVR kill rates are very inaccurate because they do not account for people killing themselves on first hook or intentionally running at the killer/going afk as is the case with petty survivor players who refuse to play against Skull Merchant.nightlight and BHVR stats are a heck of a lot better than anecdotal "well I figure" arguments when it comes to directly discussing kill rates. I have my own problems with the site but it's better than anecdote and it's certainly better than nothing
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I feel like the 15 seconds stat is actually surprisingly low, given that it's for the whole length of the game combined
- Attack cooldowns are 2.7 seconds, so for a survivor that's been knocked down 3 times that's already 8.1 seconds of total slug time just from the wipe animation.
- A lot of killers will want to take additional actions after getting a down - Hag and Trapper may reset their traps, Clown wants to recharge bottles, Deathslinger wants to reload, and so on.
- Sometimes a survivor goes down vaulting a pallet or window, and then the killer has to break the pallet or vault or go around the window for the pick up.
- Killers like Huntress, Unknown, and Trickster can knock survivors down from range and then need the extra few seconds to walk up to the survivor they downed.
- Sometimes it's hard to immediately find a survivor who's crawled into the grass while a killer takes one of those actions
- Killers aren't going to always pick survivors up with frame-perfect timing.
If a survivor gets knocked down 3 times it seems perfectly reasonable that some combination of factors would take them over that threshold of 15 seconds. Spending 15 seconds on the ground isn't getting slugged, it's par for the course in a normal game where you get sacrificed.
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It's because they're cowards. Hag is one of my favorite killers to face (although I only get to do so like once every 2-3 months at absolute best 🙁)
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I don't have to worry about that because I never play stuff that is commonly agreed upon as as OP or annoying to go against. Guess I'm just built different
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OP is my new favorite forum user
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797479#Comment_3797479
its blatant that bhvr considers 2k a survivor win. bc if they didnt theyd buff survivor.
i dont know whats not clicking there
What's not clicking is this: I've seen BHVR reps say they don't have one set of rules that they consider as a win with regards kills/game. I personally can't wrap my head around a world where they "blatantly" consider a 2k a survivor win but also openly don't have one standard for how many kills per game is a win.
However, BHVR have also said they want around a 60% kill rate because they want killers to feel like they're a force to be reconed with. To me this implies they want the game to slightly favor killer players on average - something I agree with. Even if they did consider kills/game in their definition of a win for balance purposes (which they don't), there's a very good reason why they would keep things the way they are - it fits their vision for the game's balance.
When I argue a 2k is a draw, it is because that's the most logical thing to call it. Two survivors got sacrificed, two escaped. An exactly even outcome is a draw.
When I argue the game favors killers, I don't think that's a bad thing. It is a horror game and the game favoring the killer makes sense. I say it only because I think it's important to be honest about the state of the game
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3798159#Comment_3798159
Well, the Mori with Adepts works fine if you slug for a 4k. Problem is that really feels boring to do as Killer, and isn't much fun as Survivor.
But then that's the exact same as adept without a mori. In any case old moris don't make adept easier, but that's not the point, the point is you're right nobody asked for this
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@ObsidianButterfly said:
Kill rate means absolutely nothing and does not show how strong a killer is. Case and point: Nurse and Blight have the lowest numbers, but are the strongest in the game.
Merchant only had a 70% because survivors kept going AFK or run into her on purpose to suicide on hook, which massively inflated the number higher than it should be.
Blight has a top 5 kill rate and nurse's is also above average according to nightlight.gg
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With Oni it's definitely worth trying to zoom around the map knocking people down instead of guarding the same gen for an extended period of time. A
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
Moris were fine and didn't need to be touched, they gutted the only good reason to bring a Memento Mori - multiple kills in a match by your own hands, and easier adepts.
This is pointless, stupid, and was an unneeded change. I don't want it live. Nobody wants this live.
If anything a mori makes adept harder because the hatch opens immediately after the third mori and since you brought a mori you can't have brought a hatch offering.
I do agree, though, it feels pointless to bring this live like this. They should have reworked the moris so they let you get additional "kill by your own hands". Yellow lets you kill the second-last survivor, green lets you kill all but the first, and pink lets you kill all survivors with your own hands (with the requirement of them reaching 2nd hook stage)
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@Raccoon said:
This Distortion change is certainly bringing out the hyperbole.
Definitely makes me think it's a healthy change.
This is more about the buffs to Zanshin and Predator than it is the nerfs to Distortion
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All they need is to make sure that the "corrected" skill check doesn't recharge it and it's fine tbh.
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There's still Devour Hole
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If people are giving up against something en masse it means it's unfun to play against to a large majority of people and it should be changed
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795374#Comment_3795374
51.5% win percentage
so… balanced??
(with 13% draws)
51.5% killer win percentage vs 35.5% survivor win percentage is not balanced lol
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796243#Comment_3796243
Yeah, that's wrong. Twins, Skull Merchant, and Unknown are pretty bad and even they're more consistent than him. Except for the skeletons, and only when spawned point-blank, he's a glorified M1.
i said "top 5 killrate according to nightlight"
you can argue all you want about nightlight not being a good indicator of killer power level (and I might even agree with you) but don't say "Yeah, that's wrong" to something that's just literal fact
also twins and unknown are both solid lol
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
I don't see a reason ro remove pregame lobbies. But the Killer is, sorry, not forced to run against your aggressive squad if they don't want to. They don't owe YOU in particular a game.
Extremely interesting. This is sort of the inverse of a lot of posts I've seen from killer mains here. There was a post where someone was asking "do killer players really find [x playstyle] fun" - not even asking them to stop, just genuine curiosity about whether the playstyle was enjoyable - and the response from a lot of people was "how dare you force me to play a certain way in a game I paid for"
Not calling you out personally, because IDK what your thoughts on this are, but it's interesting to see "I don't want to play against certain playstyles" trending on the same forums. Wide range of opinions here to be sure
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Top 5 kill rate according to Nightlight fwiw
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Queue dodging isn't a huge problem with prestige hidden, but I think there can be a feature added with little effort that removes the possibility even more. Give a ramping penalty similar to, but independent of and more lenient than, the DC penalty. If you legitimately need to cancel a queue due to outside circumstances it won't affect you, but it will affect people dodging because they see too many default outfits on their team (or vice versa for killers), as frequently.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795981#Comment_3795981
event toolboxes should all be patterned on Yellow toolboxes
absolutely. blood event map also violates this rule (who cares) but having abundant commodious equivalent event toolboxes isn't nice.
also idk if it can be called an opinion but time-wise engineer's is better with double charge add ons unless you need the extra skill checks toolboxes give.
@topic, exultation definitely upgrades a yellow toolbox into a commodious. it's very unlucky you haven't got one after presumably many tries.
It's only been 3 or 4, which is unlucky but only about as unlucky as getting a mimic on your first Vecna chest. Thanks for the info
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@Namtellum said:
first of all #REVERTBLIGHT secondly when was the last time a survivor sided map got nerfed? when was the last time anything related to survivor GAMEPLAY including perks got nerfed? plus there was quite a bit of counterplay to blights hug tech so thats not a valid argument AND indoor maps still sucked for him. its EVEN WORSE now you can barley get through a door. BHVR please please. at least brung back hug tech and no. its not an exploit unlike lopro blight a few months ago.
When was the last time anything related to survivor GAMEPLAY including perks got nerfed?
8.1 - Iron Will got nerfed to be countered by Stridor.
8.0 - BGP to normal Sprint Burst speed, Buckle Up no longer gives endurance, and Decisive Strike goes down to 4 seconds.
7.7 - Adrenaline shortened to 3 seconds, no longer counters Freddy, doesn't work off hook
There you go, 3 patches where survivor stuff got nerfed
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They're not That overpowered, imo. Yeah, I'd love for some small QOL tweaks, but honestly the majority of complaints I have about the game aren't directly balance related but player attitude problems andtthose won't be addressed by nerfs. The game favors killers but it does so in a way that can be fun for survivors if you don't go against a Most Comp Mindset Killer Award finalist. Would live updates that encourage people to nit play with that playstyle, rather than overall nerfs
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795556#Comment_3795556
That doesn't sound remotely terrifying.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/707YWVRKYGRU/images-284-29.jpeg
It's something entirely optional that people have opted in to? There are plenty of reasons not to do it, but "violating pricacy" when people have already voluntarily connected the two accounts isn't one of them. Like heck, do you find it terrifying when you get an email from Steam saying "thanks for your purchase"?
I would want BHVR to, like, announce the change and give people the opportunity to revoke consent if they did make the change (I also would prefer they don't make the change, lol). Fact of the matter is, "two online services you had to give special permission to communicate, doing exactly what you gave them special permission to do" is perfectly fine.
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@TieBreaker said:
How would BHVR even be able to tell if someone is streaming?
i personally think they shouldn't mark streamers, for a whole host of reasons, but I think it is theoretically possible
they're able to connect to your twitch account for the sake of drops. i imagine they might be able to check if someone's live using a similar system.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3794533#Comment_3794533
I didn't say "uh survivors need to get good".
Both sides of this game think the game is sided in a way that disproporationately disadvantages them when it doesn't. Most games are won by the side playing harder to win, through skill mindset or loadout.
Saying the game is sided, then, is just a way to excuse your own poor play, regardless of which side you're on.
I tend to escape probably around 60% of my matches. However, I am able to understand how stats work, and when I look at the stats on nightlight that show killers having a 57.8% kill rate, and 51.5% win percentage (with 13% draws) it is hard for me to see the game as anything other than favoring killers.