radiantHero23
radiantHero23
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@Beatricks said:
I've got 2.7k hours in the game and also enjoy playing M1 killers. Your experience is one that I share. Unfortunately, it doesn't look likely that BHVR will make the necessary changes to make M1 killers viable against efficient and decent looping survivors.
Nice to see im not alone
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511086#Comment_3511086
There's a reason why DDS shack has a breakable wall. It's the biggest shack in the game. Also, it's very central and very close to a very strong main building. If every shack had a breakable wall, the tile would be worthless once pallet is dropped.
And to answer OP, most common tiles are very fair for M1 killers. Shack can't be vaulted on reaction (with old fast vaults at least) on anything short of perfect ping if killer hides red stain properly. Jungle gym pallets are very unsafe when they're not dropped against M1 killers that hide red stains, as are the vaults. TLs are very balanced, as are double walls. Only problematic mains out of the ones you listed imo are Disturbed Ward (very strong main on an already strong and large map), Garden (this map is just straight up stupid), and MD (why did they have to buff it in the "rework"?).
Yes you can wait in shack. (Again, i should really just take a clip the next time i get survivors doing this stuff)
Jungle gyms are very unfair when the pallet is dropped. Just camp it if you feel the need to play safe. Where are the long tiles on coldwind fair? Where is the snowmachine on Ormond fair? Where is amost every pallet on the game fair?
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511256#Comment_3511256
do you need it to be transparent to be able to understand where the killer is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWXZLLXQyJs
it is very easy to see enough.
If I'm being honest.
Shack would be closer to being fair if :
- long site was closed up on all shacks.
- all shacks would be like dead dawg meaning, they have a breakable wall
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@[Deleted User] said:
M1 killers can have a hard time against players who are optimizing the crap out of the game. They're fine 95% of the time. It's when you get into that top 5% and competitive level that the flaws start to show themselves.
Are mindgames possible? Yes, if both sides are participating. But a thing most players and content creators miss about survivor play at the highest level is that you don't need to optimize every tile to get the gens done. There's a reason 6 hook stages is considered a good result for an M1 killer at the comp level.
If I'm being optimal on survivor, I'm not taking the first chase to the first tile I come across and looping it. I'm pre-running to the nearest god pallet or god window on the map. There's zero mindgame potential here. Guess where I'm going after that? The next safest pallet, and I'm pre-dropping it. You are 60 seconds into this game and you haven't had a chance for a mindgame yet.
Sure, if I go to a rock filler, you might be able to mindgame me and get a hit. But why would I take that risk? What is the upside there for me as a survivor if my teammates are being efficient on gens? I can drop it early and make distance. It's like a basketball player electing to make a behind-the-back pass for no reason instead of a simple pass.
All that being said, the overwhelming majority of survivors do not play that way. And most of the killer roster has chase tools.
Again. I main pig. Most 9
Of my survivors actually play very close to what you described. I lose 2-3 gens for my first down if I'm not backed up by strong perks like corrupt.
Ambush isn't that much of an option on most maps. But I think you are aware of that.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511154#Comment_3511154
Of course I do but I also know the shack isn’t a greenhouse with transparent walls. You can’t see the killer wherever they are regardless of their position. There are some small holes, yes, but that’s hardly an unobstructed 360 view of the entire shack perimeter.
Im sorry but that's wrong. I need to take footage next time to show you.
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511187#Comment_3511187
Uh wat
I didn't say anything about getting stuck lol
oh, im terribly sorry.... I was writing on my phone and that was a bit buggy .... i was replying to @C3Tooth
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511182#Comment_3511182
Its a gym, not loops.
Loops are up to survivors who can react the direction quick. Gym is up to who minds game better.
Jungle gyms are not up to who mindgames better. Ive seen the 500pages clown main with aura reading not getting a hit there for 2 minutes straight. Its just an unfair tile.
Also. Its about tiles in general. Some of the loops are not up to reaction. You can see the killer over the loop. Again i mention long tiles on coldwind as an example.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511154#Comment_3511154
The rotten shack walls make for a flavorful and interesting visual setpiece, but really, as a game mechanic its so empty. The red stain shines through and is visible from the outside at all times and even mid experienced survivors can run it mostly right and alway elude the killer, until Bloodlust II kicks in.
Does that seem like a fair tile to you?
It certainly does not seem fair to me. I think a tile should be: What side plays it better gets to either : run aways and waste more time or get a hit or down the survivor. Playing it better means: predicting the mindgame, prediciting the survivor movement or knowing pathing and distancing really well.
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511114#Comment_3511114
I wasn't playing the game when this meta started so you can exclude me from that generalization, thanks.
"Getting stuck" we are talking about good survivors. They dont get stuck. They know their pathing really well. They look behind in half a second camera swings... Getting stuck does not happen there.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511168#Comment_3511168
Its extremely disingenous to claim "killers can just moonwalk" while ignoring that loops aren't just straight walls.
Loops are more like this :
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1EMVPPRG7T5T/screenshot-2023-08-10-133906.png
Its also weird to forget that the original developer intention for DBD wasn't for the game to be a 3 rings around the rosey into pallet drop which resulted in massive map design oversights.
Its weird to forget that the bloodlust and window block mechanic exists because the developers acknowledged that certain tiles were inherently too strong and resulted in infinites when the survivor knew how to exploit them.
But yes, keep on claiming killers can just "Moonwalk" their way trough a tile.
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Props where it is to BHVR, the 2 most recent maps (Hux map, and now Xeno map) have some of the most fair tiles in DBD , hopefully im not the only one that noticed this.
Thanks for pointing this out so I dont have to say it.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511128#Comment_3511128
Super safe loops shouldn't be a thing at all.
Autohaven has a very huge problem with the way the tiles are, they are tall enough to prevent a ranged killer from punishing a survivor, but low enough that a survivor can see the killer because 3rd person cam lets you see OVER the tile , not to mention the autohaven tiles having gaps that lets you see the killer trough them and renders mindgames once again, useless.
Casual reminder that BHVR acknowledged that being able to see over tiles is inherently an unfair advantage when they patched out stretched resolution.
Incase anyone needs a autohaven JG refresher : https://youtu.be/bqnUTJcNe78?t=376
And still long tiles exist. And many other tiles as well. The new tiles on mothers dwelling work the same way. A long side consisting of a fallen tree. The killer is perfectly visible at all times and the loop is too long to mindgame / play around. As m1 you can just brute force these tiles.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511132#Comment_3511132
No, I just think those tiles are meant to be used to extend chases not shorten them. They don’t prevent the killer from getting a down and don’t eliminate the ability to mind game - they just favor the survivor. There removed all the infinite loops in DBD so if you want a survivor dead, it’s only a mater of how much time you want to spend on it. The point of these tile configurations is to force that choice as otherwise, what can a survivor do?
They do remove the abliity to mindgame. Please take a look at shack.. Whats there to mindgame? The killer is visible from all sides. Same with the tiles i mentioned. Long tiles on cowshed are not open for mindgames. Do you know what a mindgame is?
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511111#Comment_3511111
So what would your ideal environment be? 2 possible routes? So now the killer has a 50/50 chance of guessing their way to a down in the next 3 seconds. You also suggest reducing the number of jungle gyms. Ok, so now if they guess wrong they are punished by waiting 10 seconds for a down instead of 3. The horror.
Exactly how long do you want your queue time to be?
Also... My queues are really slow as survivor right now. My killer queues are very quick though. Incentive is also mostly on killer.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511111#Comment_3511111
So what would your ideal environment be? 2 possible routes? So now the killer has a 50/50 chance of guessing their way to a down in the next 3 seconds. You also suggest reducing the number of jungle gyms. Ok, so now if they guess wrong they are punished by waiting 10 seconds for a down instead of 3. The horror.
Exactly how long do you want your queue time to be?
I would say, that the long side of shackl could be closed up to not have clear vision on the killer. In that case, the killer had a chance to mindgame and get a hit if played right.
Please dont get me wrong but do i get it right that you want the killer to have no counterplay at these tiles?
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511117#Comment_3511117
I am sorry but maps supposed to be strong for survivors because most of killers have anti-chase ability. Imagine they are nerfing these maps for killers like Pig, Trapper, Doctor etc.
Now these killers will be fine. True.
But how you will loop Clown, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Demo and other anti-chase killers. How you will have chance against range based killers ( Huntress, Trickster and Slinger).
Do i even need to say this will make Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Wesker and other A tier killers busted and broken.
Maps are coming with strong loops for reasons.
Strongly disagree.
Since sadako got butchered ive played a lot more demo. When i play pig on Midwich, i have a lot fo tiles that are good. They are huge, let me hide my terror radius etc. For demo, this map isnt easy. The tiles are very short, meaning his shred isnt that strong. Some of them are also rounded. Powers like Weskers bound and Demos shred are not usable there. Same with Pinhead. Huntresss and Trickster have problems on these tiles because they cant hit over them.
Blight can also have a hard time on tiles like this. Especially if hug tech could be removed. Blight is strong on longer tiles, because he can catch up to the survivor on the long side with out the survivor making it to the pallet. On shorter tiles, survivors can actually make it to the pallet. So id say some of these tiles might actually be better agsinst blight than the unfair ones i mentioned like the long tiles on coldwind.
Nurse is a problem.
Again. You said that maps are fine. I tell you they are not. They are fine for nurse and blight but not for most others.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511102#Comment_3511102
Thats the lofty theory, but the reality is far from the ideal, that a survivor WILL go down. Juking and bamboozling the killer in a way that they loos track of the survivor and get thoroughly juked aside, you don't need to be a god looper, to run a tile a couple of round, drop the pallet and go to the next and due to the maps being so safe these days, the killer has no real option, but to play "like a bot" und mindlessly follow the survivor around dumb cars or trees or stacks of garbage, due to their small hitboxes and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it; a problem thats only compounded by the presence of MFT, that totally messes this kind of ups and totally breaks their balance. I had a match at the game, where I just couldn't reach that Ada who ran MFT. The only option was to leave or brute force it with blood lust ... and that inevitably ended with a pallet to the face (one of 30) and off to the next incredible safe one.
Some pallets that needs to be broken, like on the long hedge walls on Haddonfield or Garden of Joy, are ok, but the vast majority of pallets should be mindgameble to some extend, which they aren't.
The loss of gen regression wouldn't be so bad, if post-6.1 not basically all survivors learned that splitting up on gens is king. The extremely safe maps, non-mindgameble tile sets and strung together loops and split up survivors so often lead to 3 gens popping after the first chase .. or at least 2 with a third one following suit shortly after. 6.1 gave killers a breather after the long drought, but now it feels like we are back to zero or actually worst off, with gen regression mostly dead, MFT destroying loop balance and splitting up and fastforwarding the early game to 2 gens left after the first chase...
What this game could use the most is a comeback mechanic: I know, peeps hate it and claim "why should I be punished for playing good?", or even better "why should THEY be rewarded for losing?", but its much healthier for the game. Right now its usually one side that stomps early and keeps winning harder, the fun close matches are rare indeed. So let the Entity eat and spawn pallets, according to which side is fareing better, block a gen for a while or spawn a medkit in the corner that you are hiding in.
Its not only Made for this. Its how certain tiles and structures are desined. I explained shack as an example. Other tiles where also mentioned. Shack is not fair by design. Pog logs are not fair by design. Made for this only makes it worse.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511074#Comment_3511074
Killers asked for no heal meta. Now survivors are focusing on gens and not wasting time with healing. What's wrong?
This is about fairness in tiles. You told me that maps are fair. Im here to tell you otherwise. Maps are fair for blight, nurse and other killers with strong chasing abilities. NOT for m1 killers.
This is not a discusssion about the change of meta. Please focus on the topic at hand.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511084#Comment_3511084
Survivors don’t like Skull Merchants or to a lesser degree Knights because their powers are frequently used to create boring battles of attrition. Before the regression nerfs, they could literally guarantee no generator could be completed in a 3 gen setup unless they went AFK or something. It has nothing to do with whether they might as well be bots.
That some chases, when run optimally and with lucky map configurations can take a while is by design. This game is designed such that a killer will always catch up to and down a survivor provided they’re both looping to the same level of skill. The only question is how long it will take. A killer is meant to make a choice in those situations - continue the chase and get a down or break chase to play for more downs by slowing gen progress, going after survivors in less favorable areas, etc. If a killer can catch up to a survivor consistently and quickly, what do you think a survivor can do to win? How do you feel that would be fair gameplay?
I talked about the chase factor of Knight etc. He forces hit or hit scenarios. Thats the main complain i hear about him. Not the gen defence. Artist is also disliked for that reason.
Some killers already have extremely strong chases and still lose the 1v4. Ice lost with spirit on maps where i downed survivors in seconds. I löost because i went for too amny hooks and because they spread out very well. Short chases does only make the game way harder for new players. I think we should reward good players.
Again. As killer i also want to have a play at all tiles. Not be reduced to a bot.
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@WilliamSN said:
Personally I believe BHVR should take the dead dawg saloon's shack way of tile balance into the other tiles.
DDS's shack has a breakable wall that turns shack from well... shack... into a fair longwall for the rest of the game,at the expense of conceding distance and wasting time once, it allows for a pseudo fix to Tile unbalance.
Or alternatively, reduce the amount of possible check spots on tiles , survivors being able to see 3+ possible routes in a tile because of 3rd person camera is ridiculous, it just makes mind games impossible aswell as neutering skill expression from both sides.
True. I would love all shacks to be likke the one on dead dawg.
Sure i have to break a wall but at least then i have a fair chase.
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@MDRSan said:
I think the problem is a survivor needs a way to realistically get away from a killer that spots them. You mentioned shack pallet but pallets are one time use if the killer decides to break it. Breaking it lets the survivor build a lot of distance, sure, but that’s a one time event and it’s kind of the point of pallets. If killers always had a quick way to down a survivor in all tile configurations and situations without needing to spend time that would otherwise be spent on pressuring gens, there really wouldn’t be a point to playing survivor.
Tiles are generally meant to be beneficial to survivors and not the killer. Survivors are designed to have to run from the killer but being slower than almost all killers (assuming we ignore blinking for the sake of technicality) means they need something to compensate in order to have a chance of winning.
Again. I mentioned the LT wall. This tile played really well can cost the killer a lot of time. Ive seen it happen.
Im know that pallets are supposed to give distance and that they are a one time use. However, the amount of pallets where the killer cant do anything buffles me. In my post i talked about long tiles and the game(map). I want the killer to have as much of a chance to success as the survivor does. I dont want to brute force my way through pallets. I want to "play" around them. Also. The game has so many pallets that you HAVE to break as an m1, that i dont think that there is any "one" time event at all. When all the "one" time events have ended, the game has progressed that far that the killer first: is kinda mad that they had to play like a bot. Second: lost many gens to playing like a bot. Third: has to play "dirty" to have a chance for a comeback (tunneling/ camping).
Sorry but i disagree. Survivors dont like Knights, Skill merchants and even Artists "broring" hit or hit scenarios because they feel like they had no play and could have been replaced by a bot that plays the same way. Why is it fine for killers but not for survivors to have that gameplay? I want fairness for both sides.
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
I've been saying this in relation to Trapper and just get told I'm bad so... shrug
That's the MFT issue though: being injured means nothing anymore. There's absolutely no risk to being injured when you have 17 perks to gain endurance in different ways. In fact, it probably benefits survivors more to stay injured with MFT seeing that Resilience has crept back into the meta and Prove Thyself is still there. It's the same issue that's been present with every big discussion — strong killers don't care, average killers have a 50/50, and weak killers struggle even more than they would already. But hey, "skill issue"
As i said. I hope we are at a point that we can discuss these aspects without just shmaing or calling out people. I agree with you entirely.
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If its endgame: its made for this + hope.....
Very fair combo against m1 killers. Love to see them walk across map and get the gate without any counterplay at all.
Feels bad.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3509300#Comment_3509300
The Plague addon requires survivors to be sick. The Demo addon instead was just a map wide aura read on demand. This nerf is leaving the addon in a good state, but now it has SOME requirement. You still get a map wide aura reading during the travel phase.
What about dredges lavelier microphone?
It's purple and does not really have a requirement.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3509268#Comment_3509268
You're right... we should nerf Pig
But I main pig..... :(
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@WW1PilotAce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3509168#Comment_3509168
its a bad habit of behaviour nerfing the good addons and buffing the bad add-ons from useless to still useless, i wish there was and outrage like it happened with billy but this time alien is distracting the playerbase so demo has no chance of avoid it.
Demo player base....
This killers pickrate is abysmal as far as I know...
He's my second main again. (because they butchered my Sadako)
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@Mandy said:
The simple answer is some addons can be reworked quicker than others without factoring programming time, QA time etc. Simple changes can be done by the Design team with little to no resources from other teams. Larger changes made to addons (or anything else), requires substantially more resources which need to be factored in and slot into the production calendar.
Why nerf the addon at all?
It's a strong aura reading addon for a killer with subpar chase potential. It's good when they go for more chases. It's not even that good when compared to Plagues black incense or dredges lavelier microphone. Even on Demo there are better addons. Case and point : black heart and barbs glasses.
I dont get why this addon has to be nerfed at all.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3508136#Comment_3508136
A Red one at that...lol. This is why the obvious immediate change that should be implemented is a Pig nerf.
But I've heard that the nightmare is overperforming as of late.
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@PeacenGreasealt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3508296#Comment_3508296
Ooo, you said a bad wird
:(
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3508031#Comment_3508031
You guys are getting in 2 chases before you lose 3 gens? Cries in Trapper.
Cries in Pig
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@Unfunny_Clown said:
I play survivor mostly these days and i would hate to go back to old survivor meta,, the only issue i have with the survivor nerfs is DH not being usable on first chase,,that's just Bs ,otherwise it's cool
I think it's very healthy that dh isn't there in the first chase.
It's where the killer needs pressure the most.
It's fine to be during the match.
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@radiantHero23 said:
The alien ship crashed with the nostromo would be fun I think. I find the interior of the alien ######### very creepy.
No? I didn't just recently watch the movie. ;D
Alien spaceship
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The alien ship crashed with the nostromo would be fun I think. I find the interior of the alien ######### very creepy.
No? I didn't just recently watch the movie. ;D
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507983#Comment_3507983
It's a good start, but the 4th survivor should probably be slugged...
You have a Freddy profile picture, therefore your suggestion is asolutely valid and should be implemented immediately.
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Angela, hand over the pitchfork. Ill bring the torches.
No, i thing that would be a good idea to make the perk more consistent while not needlessly buffing it. However, i think pain res is fine right now. No perk should eb a go - to in my opinion. Variety is good and specific perk should be good on specific killers. Like hoarder had a niche on Pinhead. (sadly removed)
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@CatnipLove said:
I was wondering half way through why he chose this footage to be edited into it's own video. He's not having a good time so it's not that enjoyable to watch.
Thats the point i guess, hes not having fun. Therefore the person watching it is supposed to feel the same.
I just dont get what he wants to achieve with it. Rally up people against these perks when he clearly made mistakes this match?
At that point i would like it more for him to make one of his hour - long videos and explain why these perks are unfun in his opinion.
But again. That would just be HIS opinion.
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Nobody is selfish for having an opinion, even if its an unpopular one.
That said, i know what you mean. The more balanced the game is, the less fun it gets sometimes. Sure, dh was unhealthy. But it also made survivors so extremely dumb stuff a lot od the times. It was hilarious.
I would love to have one more ride with a macro - flashlight - bully squad. (I know that it si very good for the game that macros are not a thing anymore. I just found it hilarious when they did all that and went down immediately.)
At least there people didnt usually give up on their first hook and played the game to the end.
Also i have to ask. How often do you get helt hostage in a game? Is skill merchant with her eternal - gen that common?
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@Beatricks said:
It's really funny to see when a content creator's preferential matchmaking lets a good team slip in and everyone can see the reality of balancing in DBD.
Nothing about balancing this match. He made a lot of mistakes. He even mentiones it in the annotations. Survivors used their perks well and took advantage of his mistakes. Thats it.
The only thing one could say about balanicng here is that he played clown on the game. But even there you could say that clown is better on that map than others so.....
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@grandpa_general said:
Below trapper tier weak. We could have 4 awful killers in a row. Wouldn't you demand a refund if that were the case?
No. I love weak killers XD.
I main pig. Mained old Sadako and love Trapper. The most important aspect is that the killer is engaging / fun to play and play against. Case and point: Skill merchant is undeniably strong but extremely unfun.
Also i dont think refund is usually happening in dbd so....
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Windows is fine. I just fin it funny how most surivors with windows dont even look behind them and are just "locked" in a straight way. Thats when i go: " yep ... thats a windows - gamer".
I dont really like the autopilot - part of the perk. But i understand its place in the game. Maybe the perks information could be time based like lucky break and could be earned back in some way. In that way the survivor has limited time in chase to memorize the information give to them but is able to recharge the perk with enough time spend in chase.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3508049#Comment_3508049
Agree.
Im so sad that the status of a perk being "good" means they have to be on the level of old coh, ds or even dh. Same on killer with old ruin - undying, pain res - dms or eruption. Perks should be good, not overtuned.
Sorry... Got deleted somehow....
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@WilliamSN said:
Lets go over a massive misconseption real quick.
The only way to determine which side the game favours the most is by looking at the skill bracket where the game is played the most optimally.
If when the game is played 100% optimally by both sides, the survivors still manage to pull a 3/4 man out, it tells you the game inherently favours survivors one way or the other.
"Mimimimi but killers go on winstreaks of 100s while survivor players dont11!!!"
Playing killer, you only have to rely on yourself, and the outcome of the match is 100% dictated based on your skill.
Meanwhile even if a survivor player is a god tier looper, all it takes is 1 chase and a team that doesn't unhook him to end his "streak". When your wins are dependant on 3 other people playing right, its obvious you wont streak at all.
--------------------------------
Now perks
A majority of killer perks are downright useless or so situational that killers prefer using a nerfed perk over the others.
Lets be real, who in their right minds uses any of the wraith, Oni , Pig, Huntress, Skull merchant ,etc. perks?
The only reason we're now seeing Oni's Blood echo pop up is because of MFT's status as the most busted perk in the game as of now.
Which leads me into survivor perks....
Iron will - this perk is still strong, paring it on a character like ace or ada will make you essentially silent. no idea why you claim this is dead.
Dead hard - yada yada yada, Uncounterable DH for distance, E press at pallet etc etc. you know why this perk needed a rework and its pointless to have to re-explain something that has been said before Millions of times.
DS - 1 minute of immunity is insane with the only counterplay being "slug for a minute and concede the pickup" , this is incase you weren't forced the eat the DS with a locker play, if you unhook someone in the killers face, thats a mistake, perks working as mistake erasers should never be a thing.
COH - Allowed survivors to set up an infinite heal camp on 1 corner of the map. made medkits obsolete, killed Hit n run playstyle, if it got snuffed a survivor could just reboon it 15s later. Ironically, for a healing perk this was one of the most unhealthy perks in the entire game.
Spine Chill - This perk forced killers to crab walk to gens, gave permanent pseudo-Wallhacks AND a vault speed increase. it was objectively too strong and forced weird behavior on killers just to counter it.
Off the record - has the potential of giving you 3 HEALTH STATES if you get healed under hook , allows you to bodyblock for up to 80 seconds because of the endurance effect. This is far from a "weak perk".
Also your survivor entitlement is shining trough, just because blatantly busted survivor perks get the nerfs they deserve, it doesn't mean you're entitled to a new busted toy to abuse.
Agree.
Its sad to see that a perk being "good" means thta they have to be on the level of old coh, ds or even old dh. Same goes for killer in terms of old ruin- undying, pain res - dms or eruption. Perks should be good, not overtuned.
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@WilliamSN said:
Lets go over a massive misconseption real quick.
The only way to determine which side the game favours the most is by looking at the skill bracket where the game is played the most optimally.
If when the game is played 100% optimally by both sides, the survivors still manage to pull a 3/4 man out, it tells you the game inherently favours survivors one way or the other.
"Mimimimi but killers go on winstreaks of 100s while survivor players dont11!!!"
Playing killer, you only have to rely on yourself, and the outcome of the match is 100% dictated based on your skill.
Meanwhile even if a survivor player is a god tier looper, all it takes is 1 chase and a team that doesn't unhook him to end his "streak". When your wins are dependant on 3 other people playing right, its obvious you wont streak at all.
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Now perks
A majority of killer perks are downright useless or so situational that killers prefer using a nerfed perk over the others.
Lets be real, who in their right minds uses any of the wraith, Oni , Pig, Huntress, Skull merchant ,etc. perks?
The only reason we're now seeing Oni's Blood echo pop up is because of MFT's status as the most busted perk in the game as of now.
Which leads me into survivor perks....
Iron will - this perk is still strong, paring it on a character like ace or ada will make you essentially silent. no idea why you claim this is dead.
Dead hard - yada yada yada, Uncounterable DH for distance, E press at pallet etc etc. you know why this perk needed a rework and its pointless to have to re-explain something that has been said before Millions of times.
DS - 1 minute of immunity is insane with the only counterplay being "slug for a minute and concede the pickup" , this is incase you weren't forced the eat the DS with a locker play, if you unhook someone in the killers face, thats a mistake, perks working as mistake erasers should never be a thing.
COH - Allowed survivors to set up an infinite heal camp on 1 corner of the map. made medkits obsolete, killed Hit n run playstyle, if it got snuffed a survivor could just reboon it 15s later. Ironically, for a healing perk this was one of the most unhealthy perks in the entire game.
Spine Chill - This perk forced killers to crab walk to gens, gave permanent pseudo-Wallhacks AND a vault speed increase. it was objectively too strong and forced weird behavior on killers just to counter it.
Off the record - has the potential of giving you 3 HEALTH STATES if you get healed under hook , allows you to bodyblock for up to 80 seconds because of the endurance effect. This is far from a "weak perk".
Also your survivor entitlement is shining trough, just because blatantly busted survivor perks get the nerfs they deserve, it doesn't mean you're entitled to a new busted toy to abuse.
Agree.
Im so sad that the status of a perk being "good" means they have to be on the level of old coh, ds or even dh. Same on killer with old ruin - undying, pain res - dms or eruption. Perks should be good, not overtuned.
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Just try to enjoy your experience and dont let it get ruined by others. Thats all i can say. Sadly i know, thats not much.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507985#Comment_3507985
it was in top 10 perks. 11% use range. Pretty meta, i don't know why you are even asking lol
This is across all mmr right?
Its important to think what stats mean, when they are dropped and not just make fast descisions.
Noed is a basekit killer perk, therefore it is used by lower level killer players because it is relatively strong and is very rarely countered in game. in addition to that a newer killer hasnt unlocked better / more perks, its clear of why the perk has such a high usage rate.
Lets look at the perks mentioned:
Survivor
- Windows of opportunity - unlockable with shards
- Adrenaline - free
- Resilience - free
- Lithe - free for console i think / unlockable with shards
- Self care - free
- sprint burst - free
- Prove thyself - free
- Dead hard - free
- bond - free
- spine chill - free
Killer
- Surge / Jolt - free
- Sloppy butcherer - free
- Pain resonance - unlockable with shards
- Pop goes the weasel - unlockable with shards
- BBQ - paid / shrine
- Leathal pursuer - paid / shrine
- Corrupt intervention - unlockable with shards
- No where to hide - unlockable with shards
- Stbfl - paid / shrine
- NOED - free
Looking at this you can see a pattern. Free perks are used a lot more than paid ones. Does that mean paid ones are better? Not specifically. Free ones are mainly used more because they are the first accessible to newer players. In addition to that survivor meta perks are also mostly free...
Also according to your logic, perks like spine chill and self care are also meta due to their 6% and 13% pick rate.
Self care has a higher pick rate than NOED. Does that make self care meta? No. I think we can all agree on that the perk is not that strong.
To conclude: High or low pick rate isnt the only factor to determine if or if not a perk is meta.
We need to look deeper into thing and not just look at the surface.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507961#Comment_3507961
It's funny how you are talking about only bad parts.
First DS nerf was fair. If you are doing gen, killer is not tunnelling you. This was good nerf. But nerfing it to 3 seconds was terrible and it was direct buff to tunnelling. Because they killed DS with this way.
Corrupt is still works same. It still makes survivor to unblocked gen. That's why it's still meta perk.
Dead Hard deserved nerf but BHVR just made it useless level perk. I would take rework instead of last version.
It's not free heals at all. You are cleansing totem and wasting time already. And on current meta, you have not free time to do this. You have to focus on gens or you will lose. Because killer meta is pretty strong atm. Heals are slower, gens are slower, tunnelling is living the gold era. And after all of this, you have to worry about Noed too.
Pls read my post.
Killer meta is probably the weakest it has ever been right now.
In terms of perks at least.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
After countless wins, he lost one. This video proves how busted survivors are! Let's nerf survivor to even under ground.
No, the video shows good usage of survivor perks when the killer makes many mistakes on a hard map.
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Ok....
No the game is not killer sided. Not every killer is nurse, Blight, Wesker or Spirit in terms of power.
I would say it's actually fairly balanced right now, with a few outliers namely: nurse, Blight, Trapper, Freddy, Myers, and the 4man swf.
In regards to perks....
Pain res got buffed after it got nerfed.
Pop got buffed after it was arguably killed as well (I liked it still but that's not the point here)
Corrupt is good because it fixed one of the games main problems for killer. You'd need to rework it entirely.
I dont use noed and find it rather weak in comparison to perks like no way out. But I'm more focused on the mid game rather than end game. So I dont use end game perks that often.
Now to the survivor stuff....
Again, I dislike the mentality that only busted perks are considered good.
Coh killed an entire playstyle and destroyed certain killers on its own.
DH is still going strong, I have good survivors getting very good value out of it. Especially when used with made for this. Ds is still good against your average killer that has no way of immediately closing the gap again. However against the stronger killers and especially nurse and blight, yes it's bad. Therefore I think the perks should punish these killers specifically by reducing their power to 0 when hit with it. Having to recharge it.
Spine chill is bad yes... But so is ruin.
On the contrary, survivors have good perks like off the record, lucky break, smash hit, sprint burst, lithe, buckle up, for the people, break out, plot twist, dramaturgy, alert, bond, Windows of opportunity, adrenaline, unbreakable, overcome, any means necessary and a lot of others. These perks are good, but not overbearing in my opinion. The only Perk that would fit in the category as old Coh is currently made for this if you ask me. But I guess I will get criticised for that.
We need good perks not overturned ones.
Same as killer. Good perks are : Stbfl, surge(jolt), Bbq, lethal pursuer, floods of rage, devour hope, face the darkness, darkness revealed, coup de grace, plaything, rancor, blood favour, no where to hide, no way out and may more.
Both sides got hit hard in 6.1.0 and I'm glad that very problematic perks like dh, Coh and eruption as there where are not in the game anymore. I think it's for the better of it.
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NO!
Amanda had enough. It's time to further nerf Freddy. The nightmare has been over performing as of late.
Jokes aside, I'm so sick of content creators saying : "this is so unfun to go against, just to do the same thing two hours later and having a blast in a 4man swf".
Are these perks unfun to go against?
Maybe?
Could he have played way better this match?
Absolutely!
If someone wants to give prove that these perks are unfun to go against, show a game where the killer didn't make that many mistakes and the survivors put them in actuall unfair situations.
To conclude: he made mistakes, the survivors used these mistakes to their advantage and he didn't like it.
Nothing new.
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This problematic mindset effects both sides and is the direct outcome of the mmr system.
People want to win. Nobody goes into a match to lose. You can say you want to have fun chases as survivor but you will still work on gens when you are not chased.
Same as killer. You want to win. You don't want to have the survivors standing in exit gate.
I personally go in the game and adapt my playstyle based on how the other side plays. If the survivors do gens quick, just ore drop pallets, use insta heals in the first chase, bodyblock my first down and generally play very safe (3 gens for one hook) I will have to adapt and play more efficiently as well. As sad as this is. They have shown me their card now I have to play mine.
If they play more chill (first hook before 1 gen is done, 3.hooks before 2 gens are done, team seems to be less good in looping or teamwork and generally play more chaotic) I will go for more fun plays.
Because I main pig that would be, mainly using Stealth, jumps caring survivors, going for the ambush most of the time.
Game goes two ways.
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@Frogsplosion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506976#Comment_3506976
Put a bunch of vents all over the map that the xeno can travel through and give it demo's shred, easy win
Maybe not so good to make a demo clone.
Demo is already not played much even by the player that own the killer.
Making another killer that is almost a copy would hurt even more and make both killers less unique.
Similar could be good but not a copy.