pseudechis
pseudechis
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I had the best couple of killer games I’ve had in while the other night.
Not all wins just good games. So yeah I’ll keep logging in when I feel like it.
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@Maxx_Calin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063826#Comment_3063826
To me it does make them bad at playing the killer. Only reason for a killer to camp someone at the end of the day weather u agree with it or not is cause they don't know how to beat survivors the normal way of catching and hooking them. That is why I say that those who camp are either too lazy to play the game it was meant to be played or they don't know how to play as the killer. So there solution is to capture, hook and camp one person just so they can get bloodpoints the easy way for killers without putting in the work to earn them honestly in a match.
Camping is not and should not be part of the game cause it makes the game less fun for those being camped and it shows the killer is a mean disrespectful person who would rather play dirty to win than win honest and fairly.
"the normal way" and there it is yet again the preconceived notion of the way you want to play being right, normal etc thus trumping how anyone else might play.
Normal DBD also involves camping and tunneling its part of the game.
One could argue its becoming more normal because survivors don't know how to outplay it and often get so upset that they make bad decisions thus throwing the game.
You are making assumptions about your opponent based solely on an in game mechanic that you don't like. That's a recipe for upsetting yourself and has nothing to do with your opponent.
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@Maxx_Calin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334130/the-killer-is-not-your-friend
The way I see it, the only issue I have with killers is them camping me. If killers would stop doing it all together and play the game going after everyone instead of punishing one person and proving they are terrible at playing the killer by doing so. The game would be alot more fun to play.
I don't get how camping really benefits the killer at all and find it a cheap pointless mean tactic to imploy just to punish one person in the match while everyone else gets an easy match cause the killer isn't chasing them or stopping them from doing generators while they are camping that one person.
Its perfectly fine to feel that way about camping... however,
If I could add a few points for thought.
Someone choosing to camp doesn't make them a bad player, in fact sometimes camping is the best choice of tactic. Knowing when to do so or not takes a bit of game sense.
You can build around hook defence and some killers excel at it, making it often the smarter play when playing certain killers. i.e. insidious bubba, basement shack trapper, 3 gen hag, etc. These builds can pay off big and be a lot of fun to play.
Not everyone who camps is angry, trying to be mean, or out to ruin your fun. Its just part of the game so lightening up about it can do wonders for player interaction.
There is nothing wrong with saying "hey I didn't really enjoy being camped" but that is different from saying "you are trash you camper"
One of these statements could be put to another player for a non-toxic exchange about game outcome, the other is just a toxic attack on another player over a video game.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059604#Comment_3059604
Yes, a pre-defined concept of WHAT a killer and survivor have to do. if you didn't have a pre-defined concept of what should happen within a trial then the game would be a sandbox.
Sure but the only things killers and survivors HAVE to do is repair gens and escape, or catch survivors and sacrifice them. There are a number of ways they can go about that in game and they are all pretty clearly defined.
Lets refer back to your statement...
"You getting a kill within 1 gen pop, or even before 1 gen pops is a HUGE and disproportionate advantage, and the fact that all it takes is complete disengagement to regular gameplay is what makes it toxic"
Define "complete disengagement from regular gameplay"...???
Sounds to me that you are arbitrarily defining what's appropriate in game (or regular gameplay) prior to game start and going in with the expectation that all players should adhere to that definition of pre-defined play.
Your statement isn't about what killer and survivor HAVE to do... its about what you WANT killer and survivor to do and if they don't do what you WANT then somehow that's toxic.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3062444#Comment_3062444
I'd direct you to this consideration by @ArchAbhor
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059041#Comment_3059041
This one from @Bwsted
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060870#Comment_3060870
And this one from @Nitpohls
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060242#Comment_3060242
It's not like players came up with the idea of the reward themselves and pretended to receive it.
BHVR said there was going to be a special reward being VERY secretive about it, and everyone understandably though it was going to be a skin or something to show off.
BHVR basically came out and said "No it's not going to be a skin, but don't worry, you'll still be able to show off", ok people were a bit let down but ehy, at least you'll be able to show off.
Then PTB came, not only the reward was something that you could NOT show off, but it was uglier than Dredge as well.
People complained about it, but can you say they were being entitled?
Now BHVR changed how the reward looks, but the point of the complaints was not only the fact that it was ugly, and BHVR didn't do ANYTHING to address those complaints.
Would people be entitled if they were to ask BHVR to stick to their words, for once?
It is a computer game, but people are dedicated to it, and brushing off their efforts like it's nothing it's disrespecting them.
You must have missed this piece of my post...
"While there is nothing wrong with a sense of achievement, even with something that's meaningless, it can breed a tedious form of elitism and entitlement that is really on the nose. Especially when its over something as trivial as a computer game."
Which basically already says what the posts you highlight say but without any of the self aggrandizing that I'm referring to.
I'm proud of a lot of realistically meaningless things that I've been involved in, but there is a difference to feeling a sense of achievement and letting that sense of achievement turn you into a whiney expectant child with an emotional napoleon complex.
"BHVR said there was going to be a special reward being VERY secretive about it, and everyone understandably though it was going to be a skin or something to show off."
They were pretty clear that it wasn't going to be anything grand and stated that it wasn't a wearable cosmetic or costume. The release even said some players may be underwhelmed by it in an attempt to curb expectations.
Lots of people live in a lil alternative reality vacuum and only heard what they wanted to. So they jumped to conclusions about it because they felt they deserved something for "achieving" what is basically time spent online playing a game.
Lets take a step back and ask what have people really done... well they spent a lot of time playing a game, wow give em a fricken medal for it. Now people are upset that they didn't get their self vaunted medal. Lets review some of these...
Statements like "bait and switch" implying they were cheated or scammed which is just silly.
"Why does it matter actually? Very naively, because those people are customers. Why do they have an argument? Because the original purpose of prestiging was bragging rights. You pay a hefty ingame price to get a cosmetics to show off." <- Classic I'm a paying customer! guy, whom payed a very hefty in game price, my god compensate this man!
You don't pay any price to play DBD its fun, you buy it and you play it for the fun. There is no hefty in game price to pay what a completely ridiculous sentiment.
The OP states this albeit in a rather aggressive way and I'm inclined to agree with them to an extent. I like free stuff too, I've played a lot of DBD and if they give me free stuff for sticking with DBD for so long then great! Love it. More free stuff may make me stick around for longer too.
But lets not let that time spent evolve into a false sense of achievement that deserves reward, because when you step back from it and take a good look... you really haven't done ######### that's worthy of any reward.
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@M4dBoOmr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334378/another-gamers-honest-perspective
weird for me, Camping & Tunneling is a rare occurrence that happens not that often tbh.
Try blaming more in game mechanics on it, its a great cover excuse for one's own in game inadequacies.
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@Gamall said:
I would prefer to play DBD, not chase and die simulator.
If I need to improve my skills I just start a game with a friend 1v1 to practice
DBD is chase and die simulator, it's the whole premise of DBD, one might say its core theme. Are you sure you're on the right forum?
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I'd take an immersive game of hide and seek over obnoxious in your face cocky survivors any day.
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Careful or you'll stir up a nest of entitled customers and anyone who's ever worked in customer service know what they can be like.
You've got some up in arms already. (funnily enough a lot of them are folks whom also complain a lot about everything else in game so it kinda externally verifies my asumptions and makes me smile a lil to see it).
While there is nothing wrong with a sense of achievment, even with something that's meaningless, it can breed a tedious form of elitism and entitlement that is really on the nose. Especially when its over something as trivial as a computer game.
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you could just not play till the patch comes out and then give it a try.
I mean isn't that the sort of thing a sensible rational person would do?
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Hopefully just the really competitive sore losery ones who are obsessed with the META, those players are never any fun.
Remember you're probably not good enough at the game for the meta to make much of a difference anyway.
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Maybe not, the aura reading is good but the BP bonus was the main drive to use it.
Typically unless you are playing against survivors that are switching up how they play, kinda rare, typically you either don't see anyone on BBQ or they are on the gens you already kinda expected them to be on.
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Outside of delaying perks like corrupt a bad gen layout is going to make setting up your web hard.
You can try and find a good 3 gen but when the layout doesn't lend itself to it, you either gotta dash over and try to stake out the gens early and lay out a web of traps if you can and then hope they didn't get to complete in the beginning.
You can also switch it up a bit to a anti loop kind of strat were lay a small web of traps through good loops and then target the nearest gen being worked on. Herd survivors toward those loops and then trap and proxy the hooks you get.
You're never really staking out one set up area rather you a proactively laying down a few key traps before each chase. Try and lay down a couple of traps and then circle around and come at the gen from the other side so they survivor heads toward the traps not away. Hard to do sometimes.
This scenario requires traps = hits and if you miss a couple you'll need to drop chase and set up and re-pressure the gen again.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
On a related note, why do survs who are getting wrecked sometimes still click at you like they have the upper hand and want you chase them?
I get it if they are really good, confident, and running you ragged (which happens to me a fair bit), and much of the time they'll stop when/if they start losing.
But I'll often get them doing it when half their team is dead, they're on death hook and every chase with them has lasted like 10 seconds. Is it delusion? Commitment to the bit? Muscle memory they can't turn off?
At the risk of being presumptuous and putting obvious hubris aside, I think obnoxiousness and ego play into it a little bit.
Often when I get that kind of play it comes correlated with some post game salt too. People get upset when they lose or sometimes over gameplay in general.
They can reclaim some of that sense of loss, bruised ego, by getting obnoxious and trying to annoy their opponent as much as they have annoyed themselves about it.
I say annoyed themselves because that's what people do they assume their opponent is out to ruin their fun, so they upset themselves over it then try to compensate and project by 'ruining' the opponent's fun by being obnoxious in game.
Otherwise they may just be trying to get the 'get chased for X' tasks done, they may realize its a loss and want to go for an all out big finish fleeing from the killer, chases can be more fun than hiding sometimes.
All assumptions of course.
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I'm afraid, outside of a few broken mechanics like locker animations, its not that hard to avoid flashlight saves.
There are also perks to counter it if you are struggling. I run lightborn a lot not because I need it but because it just easy to not have to worry about blinds, so when I don't have a 4th perk in mind I'll bung on lightborn or BBQ they are pretty standard go to perks.
The only thing that needs to be addressed for flashlights is rapid click macros, which have a host of other issues about them.
Some killers have mechanics that blind and disorientate survivors, clown and dredge. I wish there were more like that. But basically what you have as any killer is a big weapon so use it to wound them.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061523#Comment_3061523
" not fun for the person not getting to actually play the game" This is the common misconception. While hanging on hook you are still playing the game.
That's some mental gymnastics. I guess if I'm using the bathroom while logged into a game, then I'm playing the game.
If you're hanging on hook you are still actively in game so yeah.
What you are doing outside of game is irrelevant to what gameplay is currently taking place.
You want to discuss is camping bad for the game? go ahead, but that's a different topic from is hanging on hook still gameplay?
Because guess what... it is, that's why you have options to attempt escape and recurring skill checks/struggle mechanics, the game expects you to still be there playing while on hook.
Think about that on your next bathroom break.
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@Lecruidant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060725#Comment_3060725
More perks like BBQ? How many information perks do you want made in the game lol You have more than enough. Saying this only reinforces that it's just a behavior the community doesn't want changed (At least the killers). I myself don't have to resort to camping or tunneling. And yes, there are times i've seen it's needed. But it's most definitely not near the beginning. ANd it's most certainly not fun for the person not getting ot actually play the game.
In fact, all this does is make bad players stay playing poorly. It doesn't incentivize them going out and actually learning to play better. ie looking for scratch marks, listening to faint gen work without getting too close, looking for blood pools of injured survivors. Etc.
" not fun for the person not getting to actually play the game" This is the common misconception. While hanging on hook you are still playing the game.
Non-participation is one of the threats you face as survivor its expected when you play DBD you can end up in a non-participation scenario. The onus is on your teammates to save you from it regardless of what the killer is doing.
This whole scenario in of itself is independent of camping, but killers may try and exploit this scenario by defending a hook.
This hook defense often pays of better than trying to chase survivors for the whole game. Trying to punish hook defending AKA camping is only one half of the coin. So incentivize chasing but then how do you stop killers from using that power to just tunnel someone out early?
Ok buff defenses to tunneling and chasing but then you get scenario once again making hook defense pay of better than chasing...
and round and round we go with the oscillating perk power creep.
There is already a punishment for camping it leaves the rest of the team free to finish their objective unmolested by the killer. The player on hook is still in play, albeit not the most interactive game.
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Eh for people worried about the META I'd say don't bother you're probably not good enough at the game for META changes to matter anyway. Myself included.
I'm also hoping for more varied gameplay, the perk changes are a good start.
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Basically mind games are getting less relevant game wise.
Most loops you can see through or over, or have a single way to run them and those that don't have a pretty standard play that most experienced players know or chain into other loops making mind games again kinda irrelevant.
This makes mind games are a bit of a gamble, there is nothing wrong with that but when missing a mind game is only mildly costly to survivors while being extremely costly to killers it plays less of a role in killer chases. This is before you factor in something like DH where you win the mind game but still suffer the costly miss.
About the only real value I get outa moonwalking these days is the backward bubba saw and even then I generally know where the survivor is when I do that so I'm only moonwalking to catch them with the saw.
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Why type it at all, I mean it's kinda petty.
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Some quick points.
Outdated stats that are no longer relevant.
Poor interpretation of those stats that is highly opinionated and subjective rather than objective.
Spurious conclusions that don't really follow the data provided. Backed up by arbitrary numbers based on opinion rather than measurement.
Utilizing the results of highly invested 1% killer players (only one sample presented here from Otz) as argument against using results from single highly invested 1% SWF teams, uh ok.
One point I'll make here "But maybe 4 man have anomaly high escape rate? Nah, it's around 50%." BHVR have stated that there is a significant increase in escape rate of SWF over solo in more recent releases.
What you are quoting there is old raw count data with no population value for sample size and no error or mean statistic for differential comparison. Its a visual side note nothing more and very few conclusions can be made from it. Its not informative data its a press release and should be treated as such.
"Now back to Nurse players mentality with everything we know, they win at least 60% of their games, because soloq is awful, 75% if we also take duoq, but in fact this number will be around 90%."... How'd you come by these numbers from the data presented?
I'm a big fan of pulling numbers out of thin air based on opinion especially when you use that as rationale for changes... its more than just a bit iffy though.
Sorry but as a genuine scientist the gross misuse and misinterpretation of data to "Prove" an opinion always irks me. I'd send this back to the authors with a rejection letter for a complete rewrite.
It can be a train wreck watching joe public flail their arms around with so called "data" sometimes.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334130/the-killer-is-not-your-friend
Because as a killer, you have the flexibility and capability to completely dominate at the start of the game, or completely at the end. You have the choice to create a build around those scenarios.
You getting a kill within 1 gen pop, or even before 1 gen pops is a HUGE and disproportionate advantage, and the fact that all it takes is complete disengagement to regular gameplay is what makes it toxic. As a survivor, you are MEANT to lose the chase eventually if the killer is being stubborn, you can only win the chase truly if the killer decides that by changing their objective (going to a gen or chasing a different survivor).
As a survivor, you CANNOT bounce back from losing a hook state, that is permanently on your 'record' throughout the duration of the game. You getting camped till stage-2, or being immediately downed after unhook, is something that YOU cannot bounce back from. That is your final chance to do the gens and get out. Except you are completely at the whim of what the killer does, and what the survivors HAVE been (or haven't been) doing during the duration of these events. You going immediately onto second-stage on a hook can be completely meaningless to the objective given that survivors have not been working on the objective.
As a killer, you have COMPLETE agency over what happens at your end, you are not relying on anyone else to do this or do that.
"the fact that all it takes is complete disengagement to regular gameplay is what makes it toxic."... *Regular gameplay* having an arbitrarily pre-defined concept of how the game should be played and calling anything else toxic is a really bad way to define toxicity.
It basically means anything that doesn't match this pre-defined style is not only invalid but a actual toxic attack on another player. "Regular" DBD play encompasses camping and tunneling they aren't exceptions they are standards of play and used in the same way as looping and chasing, just in game methods to achieve objective.
"As a killer, you have COMPLETE agency over what happens at your end, you are not relying on anyone else to do this or do that."
Your last point, and its pre-given example, are just describing what happens when you have a failure of teamwork. It's 4v1 not 1v1.
Obviously you don't have loss of agency as the killer that's not part of killer gameplay, but loss of agency is one of the core in game mechanics that you are trying to escape from as survivor, it's overcome by teamwork.
When you queue up for a game of DBD as survivor, you are signing into a game that involves non-participation and elimination as the primary threats, and teamwork is required to overcome them. If players find these concepts triggering then DBD may not be the game for them.
There a lots of PVP games where you just endlessly respawn till a points cap/time limit is reached.
I'm glad DBD isn't one of them, because every game would just be a points farm and it would undermine the survival horror theme, which is why I play DBD.
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Its very common for players to attack their opponents (and their teammates) for what is just game play.
I often see the argument that its another person on the other side so you should play nice and you're not an actual killer you don't have to act like one its only a game.
But that's really counter intuitive because you're playing the role of a monster whom resides in a nightmare world, thematically you should be as mean as you can be... in game. You don't have to be but its perfectly ok to be.
Players who take the game too seriously are the ones that can't separate a fantasy game from the real world.
They think that game play is an actual attack on them as a person and they take it very personally. Then they feel justified in abusing other players outside of the game over it... that is genuine toxicity.
I'm not sayin in game 'griefing' doesn't exist but frankly camping, tunneling, slugging, bleeding out aren't it. Neither is BM'ing, flashlight saves, stuns and boil over crews.
There are collections of discussions/replies from regular complainers who really can't seem to separate the fantasy from the reality.
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@BaroneMaximus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3057087#Comment_3057087
If you read only complaints then i'm neither gonna read nor answer your message :) Respect b4 everything else, thanks.
I read the whole thing and it’s one big complaint with very little substance beyond that.
I respected the post enough to read it but you can’t do that same to the response. Not that you have to its an online forum in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t really matter.
But to flaunt that point as your primary rebuttal well…
Your arrogance is showing again.
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Yes.
You're right in that you don't need to make excuses for nurse being a strong killer.
But the bigger point is... its not a bad thing that nurse is a strong killer that's why you don't need to make any excuses for her.
Strong killers are good, they are hard to get away from, scary to face and thematically on point.
Nurse doesn't need nerfs in fact more killers should be like nurse, varied suppressive mechanics that undermine survivor tools in one way or another.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056823#Comment_3056823
Not me after 5400 hours
c'est la vie.
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Its not an equivalent 1 to 1 comparison though so take care with comparing it to killer.
You'd expect killers to max out BP's earlier they aren't sharing their game experience between 4 people. Every chase counts for 1, every hit counts for 1 etc etc.
Ideally what you'd want to see is just a generic boost across all survivor tasks in addition to a points cap increase, so if you are contributing to the survivor objective then you are earning. Be it being chased, rescuing a fellow survivor or fixing a gen.
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@BaroneMaximus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3056353#Comment_3056353
its a "generic rant" because it's not my job to address every single problem this game has, even tho i could since i have the experience and the intelligence needed to do it. Still, i'm only here to share my feeling about the actual game state and theirs should be to listen and fix it.
But you haven't really addressed any problems the game has. Its just a wall of text complaining that killers are weak and survivors are too strong.
"it's not my job to address every single problem this game has, even tho i could since i have the experience and the intelligence needed to do it." You missed humility you are also the most humble of contributors. 😅
If you want things fixed as you put it, then the best way to start is offer some objective feedback, but all you have here is a highly biased subjective rant that really doesn't have a point other than you struggle playing killer and want BHVR to fix that with in game changes.
What are those in game changes?... well you have the experience and intelligence to do it yourself but not enough to expand on what it is you want other than very generic statements like... "just do the changes thinking the 4v1 and then buff solos." How insightful, I'm starting to suspect you've overestimated your qualifications in game development.
This brings me to the following point of your honest letter.
"while bad players can always improve and don't have to relay on devs making it easier for them. There are tons of content creators out there, namely your fog whisperers, that can help them out and even without ANY help from the outside, they would just have to try and play the game since they would finally make it through (this is how i do in ANY game i play.)"
I'd say take your own advice, watch some content creators and get better at playing killer.
You are advising players to learn how to play and not rely on BHVR to prop them up with mechanics, while at the same time asking BHVR to change mechanics so you can find it easier to play... err... not a great argument.
This rant isn't about DBD its about how you feel about DBD, which is fine. We all have personal opinions about the game, but it is just a rant and not a particularly objective one at that. That makes it kinda useless for any real changes.
To quote your letter again "i hope you will be honest with yourself"... You should really be honest with yourself because...
"this is how i do in ANY game i play." clearly you're not in this case.
Just some objective feedback on your letter and why it probably won't be considered beyond this small thread.
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@AnchorTea said:
The game is a 1v4. Shouldn't the "1" be a little overpowered to make it fair to fight against the "4"? I heard someone state an arguement that both sides need to be equal but this is an asymmetrical horror game. You gotta make the killer feel more dominant.
People seem to forget that its an asymmetric 4v1 survival horror and just want to be the 1v1 uber hero.
We've all seen what 1v1 uber hero changes have done for the game, minimal player interaction, reliance on early elimination and hook defense (AKA tunneling and camping). Stale chase extending meta that never changes.
I haven't tried the PTB this round but I'm looking forward to some of the changes, because I want to flee from the killer not see how long I can waste their time, these are two different things.
Thematic gamers appreciate the former, power gamers appreciate the latter, and frankly as a long time gamer I can honestly say power gamers are often the least fun players to game with.
Changes seem thematically appropriate, we'll have to see how they go mechanically overall and only time will really tell that.
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I'll still play solo queue, I'm sure many others will too.
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Also the raw joy that comes from lightborn on tombstone Myers, you just stand there and stare at them while they ineffectively point a light at you then pop, grab and mori them.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3055552#Comment_3055552
"I don't really agree that M1 killers aren't viable"
-Why does no one ever play them in "serious money" tournaments? The answer is because they won't win.
Why would you pick a killer where they can be defeated entirely by the map? Pig, Wraith, Ghostface and a large portion of the killer cast are completely powerless in the face of god pallets as well as many of the main building loops.
This single fact got old years ago and it seems like there is nothing that is going to change it anytime soon.
Because "serious money" tournaments are an extreme gameplay example, just because something is harder doesn't make unviable. Those are two different things.
Do I think the original cast of M1 killers need some buffs and QOL changes yeah I do.
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@PatchNoir said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054532#Comment_3054532
bro you are a sage guy, i have my 1.7k hours on this game and think the same, but that day i just tought "hey a wraith match would be fun, its been long since i played and now he is reworked" idk why but when playing trapper i am getting often the crow nest map and the traps are pretty easy to spot there so kinda bad.
I am hoping that next patch the game will be balanced to a point that i can play these old killers
@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054516#Comment_3054516
Hindsight is 20/20 and most people forget about when they watch the video. They also love to sit on their couch and explain to buddies the play they would have called instead on 4th down to score the winning touchdown. Why? Because they know better than the professional athlete.
Anyone who has seriously devoted time to playing killer has at one point played a game like this where you get completely outclassed. But let me tell you a secret Patch : you should probably stop playing wraith forever. Why? M1 killer's are not viable - it's really that simple.
I'm not saying you need to play Nurse or Blight but you should only play one of the top 8 killers. The reality is that about 20/28 killer are not fun unless you get the "perfect storm". Trapper for example can be a lot of fun if you use his best addons and use an offering for a map with grass. He's not even worth playing if the map does not have thick grass.
What are the good killers after Nurse/Blight? Nemesis, Demo, Huntress, Plague, Pyramid Head, and Twins? You might wonder why Demo and Nemesis are on that list - the answer is STBFL. Those two killers will be even more meta after the changes come in next patch. STBFL is a wonderful perk in that it rewards the killer for tunneling.
Anyway- if you want to have fun as killer then you need to play a killer that has a decent base kit. Most of the killers do not. I love to play a game of Michael Myers every now and then but he is hot garbage without either Infinite T3 or the purple tombstone.
Sometimes I do my daily mission challenges with trapper. It can be a fun challenge to try and outsmart/outplay survivors when using no addons.
But for goodness sake if you are playing wraith and you see 4 torches - leave the lobby and find a new one.
Its just the law of spontaneous expertise. Doesn't matter what you do there is someone who can tell you exactly how to do it, how it should have been done etc etc. Everyone is an expert.
My opinion of games like this is they aren't bad games. You still get all the chases, you get a lot of interaction. The obnoxiousness of it can get tiring though as it feels very unthematic, which for me can be underwhelming. So I focus on the positive, which is the sheer amount of interactive gameplay.
I just try and keep a level head and get as many hits and downs as I can. Typically the survivors forgo their objective to such an extent that it works in your advantage, but like anything sometimes you come out on top sometimes not.
I don't really agree that M1 killers aren't viable, they are definitely more easily countered and you can exploit more tools against them but it is possible to wreck even highly coordinated teams with them.
That said... wraith is in one of the weaker spots because he basically has a stealth chase game that isn't really that stealthy and doesn't really help him shut down loops. He's a lil too dependent on mind games and they are becoming less and less viable plays.
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Because he's a lot of fun.
They share some similarities with stealth and insta-down potential but they aren't really equivalent.
Also Myers while being a lil dated in his base kit still has one of the most thematic powers and a great range of addons.
They do exactly what addons should do... completely switch up his gameplay making him a varied and interesting killer.
You could argue that one was better than the other etc but that's often purely based on who's using them.
Personally I'll kill 10x the players using Myers than I will using Ghostface simply because I've invested more time playing him.
Halloween is also head and shoulders above scream for creepy classic slasher flick.
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@artist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030516#Comment_3030516
ok but why is it not meant to be guaranteed...? and why do you think it working for both hook states would make it stop tunneling...? the way it is now, it kind of encourages tunneling once you've been hit by it because now you know whoever used it wont have it again.
I agree with OP. let's make ds actual anti tunnel while removing the skill check. If you're being tunneled, your anti tunnel perk should help with that.
Because a lil bit of chance keeps things interesting.
Don't forget there is a balance between mechanical application and thematic gameplay.
I brought DS so I have an auto escape if caught again makes less sense thematic game wise than an, I got caught again but have a chance to escape.
As much as the PVP comp power gamers want this to be a purely mechanical affair its still a survival horror and things should fit accordingly, which a skill check on DS does.
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He's a youtuber with an opinion nothing more.
Now just like the forums, youtube folk also belong to a really exclusive club called "ANYONE".
Guy with keyboard and opinion is somehow trumped by guy with microphone and opinion.
It's a regular Joe Public opinion off, which echo chamber will win find out tomorrow in the generic dome... action action action...
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You don't need to stay in a match where you get eliminated in 2-3 mins, you have been eliminated you're out of the match already.
"DCing was more about not letting the Killer have the final hook." That's called rage quitting you want to DC to punish play you don't like.
You can claim to "not be upset" but a person who wasn't upset would get eliminated and move on, so I call shenanigans and a lack of self awareness on that one.
The DC penalty exists to deter people like you from rage quitting, or DC'ing out of spite, when things don't go their way.
This has all been said but you seem to be willfully deaf to the point.
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I wouldn't.
I'd play her, get good at her and then put that knowledge toward being good at facing off against her.
Running around the same rock 6 times shouldn't be a go to against the whole roster.
Strong killers make the game fun, unpredictable and exciting.
A good nurse can be terrifying to face and that's DBD horror survival at its best.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050118#Comment_3050118
Lmao yes, I'm super pissed off. Are you my soulmate? Is that how you know me better than I do myself? 🤣 <- that is a joke btw.
I just wanted to end the convo, cus I didn't feel like reading another essay-length comment 💀but here we are. I'm gonna go hunt cyberpsycho's in Night City and have fun, I hope you have a wonderful day/evening, bye!
Joke or not, there is genuinely no unresolved conflict that exists between us. Its a silly game forum nothing more.
Enjoy your day/evening too
Kept this one extra short for you 😘
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050126#Comment_3050126
Yeah but I had facecamp bubba with deadlock-corrupt in mind when I wrote this, it's objectively not fun because you can't counter it, even facecamp with an M1 killer is kinda hard to counter if your team isn't coordinated, but yes ultimately it's not the player fault it's the game.
Atm tunneling/camping is mandatory against a good team do you really think it's healthy for the game ? It could be designed differently, players with 1000+ hours probably don't care much about getting tunnelled but what about new players ? it's still a game dude it's meant to be fun, getting facecamped to death on your first hook don't really need to be a thing
"Atm tunneling/camping is mandatory against a good team do you really think it's healthy for the game ? It could be designed differently, players with 1000+ hours probably don't care much about getting tunnelled but what about new players ? it's still a game dude it's meant to be fun, getting facecamped to death on your first hook don't really need to be a thing"
While I disagree that it's mandatory to tunnel/camp against a good team... its definitely easier to do given the often better payoff over chasing in many scenarios, so why wouldn't you if you want to get the kills.
Is it healthy as a game mechanic? not really as its pretty zero sum for the opponent whom hangs on hook all game.
Is it completely unnecessary though? well it forces survivors to act as a team and coordinate a save which they are kinda meant to be doing. Its a pretty substantial threat that will drive you to avoid the killer and escape at all costs so its kinda on theme.
Perhaps I'd be permitted to call it thematically appropriate but mechanically questionable.
Now we are talking objective game mechanics not "which player is a D-bag" a much more productive topic if folks wanna see genuine gameplay changes. 👍️
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050215#Comment_3050215
You're basically correct. The only real concerns I have are that prestiging costs 50k BP (which is way, way too much even if a cost should be there to begin with), and getting higher-rarity addons/etc will be slightly harder.
For the actual grind, IE, the perks, it's unambiguously a reduction if you spread the cost around- which is why I wonder if being a little worse for players who don't spread that cost around is actually a bad thing.
I agree, why should the prestige step cost an extra 50k it seems like just some arbitrary BP vacuum that isn't really in the spirit of reducing the grind.
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No it really isn't.
I mean playing a diverse range of characters is the idea that's why they have a diverse range of characters.
My understanding is they are reducing the RNG nature of the grind somewhat which I think is a better move. Builds are ready to go on new characters rather than fishing for builds at random till you unlock what you want.
Is the increased BP cost of this for a singular character too much for the benefit of reducing the RNG nature, well we'll have to wait and see.
People seem hung up on raw numbers though discounting the reduction in RNG reduction.
(correct me if I'm wrong on this, I went on holiday rather than play the PTB this time around so haven't tried any of it or really bothered too much to follow with it).
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Because clearly you aren't trying hard enough to ruin your own fun.
Try my helpful list of self sabotage...
Take everything in game as a personal attack.
Have a rigid set of arbitrary rules that apply to everyone but you and get really angry when others don't comply.
Always expect to get everything you want and that everything you want will work all the time, if it doesn't this is another form of personal attack.
Be sure to feed your ego you want it as big and strong as possible.
Surround yourself with others who'll also feed your ego and feed off each other's ego, its the core of a good obnoxious SWF.
Its always everyone else's fault... ALWAYS!
Remember you are the victim and hero rolled into one... act accordingly.
There is nothing in game that can't be blamed on opponent's exploiting broken mechanics, make sure they know what they are doing and how they should feel about it.
When in doubt project... "I'm not mad... you are"
There is no scenario so benign that it can't antagonize you with this helpful list! Now get cracking and spoil your own fun TODAY! 👍️
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I'm not surprised that it wasn't a full cosmetic or costume.
Just imagine all the angst and crazy and backlash and tantrums surrounding getting the reward prior to the changes or missing out on it. Or players feeling robbed if they made it available at a later time.
They even said it wasn't anything that grand and people still went nuts trying to prestige before the changes.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049498#Comment_3049498
"it's an elimination game" doesn't mean anything it's about fun gameplay, majority of killers are campy now the current meta IS tunneling and camping the first survivor, it's just way too easy and effective for a braindead strat, zero skill needed.
Endgame camping when you can't do anything else is fine but what you see very often is hardcamping early when they're already winning and don't have to, early camp should be nerfed heavily, with all these anti tunnel perks like OTR they ackowledge that tunneling is the opposite of fun but still nothing against camping
Its the threat you are trying to avoid that makes up the core of the game.
Whether you find it fun or not really is kinda irrelevant to your opponent, its a harsh pill to swallow but its the truth. You aren't responsible for anyone else's fun just as they aren't responsible for yours.
Saying "I don't think this is fun" is different from saying "no one should think this is fun". Your opponent is under no obligation to make the game fun for you, you have to do that for yourself.
Most strats in this game require little to no skill its very RNG based. "skill" in DBD is often random chance + ego. "braindead strats" require "brain dead" survivors to fall for them and they do it in droves so it works.
Camping and tunneling often payoff more than chasing and spreading damage and until that changes its going to remain a key strat in DBD. This is also not really objectively about gameplay because your OP is very personal.
"Why, why is necesery every single surv on hook and tunnel?? ######### is wrong with you, people?? Did someone hurt you in real life that you spread your trash all over the people in game??? I haven't playing DBD for 2 months and guess what???"
Are you attacking the game mechanics or attacking other players because of what's possible in game. These are also two different things.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049498#Comment_3049498
I never said I was pissed off or truly upset, if you actually read and understood what I'd written, you'd know I said that after too many of those games I'd be done and it's not fun to deal with. Nor did I say I expect anyone to play my way or take the highway, I was talking to TheGannMann and giving them a diff pov. And in return, I got theirs, which was a fun convo.
Considering you're off to assuming things and think you know how my games go, just because I gave an example of recent games, why don't you just go and mind your own business. If I wanted or cared for your advice I'd ask you for it, until then mind your own ✌️
Now you sound pissed off, so if its really easy to trigger you like that then I stand by my assessment.
My point was that people get really uppity about camping and tunneling and always seem to take it personally, while it may not be the greatest gameplay its is still just gameplay.
I've had plenty of fun games as survivor and killer playing around the hook and hook trading. One of the things I miss most about this game from two years ago is hook trading seems to have died off.
Survivors either rush for a save and get killed or never bother and let their team mate just die. Their either foolish or selfish.
I get it MMR is now based on escapes and if you want decent team mates then playing selfish when in solo queue often pays off more than player altruistic. But the onus is always on the killer to not exploit that to their advantage which is kinda nuts.
Whether you find it fun or not really is kinda irrelevant to your opponent, its a harsh pill to swallow but its the truth. You aren't responsible for anyone else's fun just as they aren't responsible for yours.
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A lot of DBD is based on 80's slashers so aside from some diehard cynical Gen X'ers, like myself, I'd say...
Physical age mid 20's to mid 30's, emotional age 6-14 given all the tantrums, ego and sore loser'ism.
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Did you get to have a chase, fix some gens and engage in some DBD gameplay, what about it wasn't fun?
I mean what you described was just a game of DBD sounds like sour grapes over not escaping more than anything else.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3048411#Comment_3048411
What you might forget is that as a soloq survivor nowadays, you'll face this BS of a "strat" multiple times, often games in a row. You're not the only killer that resorts to such petty strategies.
I've once had this happen 4 games in a row, of getting hard-tunneled to death on 4/5 gens. With the killers just eyeballing other survivors and still going for me. Eating the DS and afterwards still hard-tunneling. At that point IDGAF about any excuses about it being a strat, I'm just done.
I play killer and I know it really isn't that hard to not hard-tunnel and still get kills. Enough with the BS excuses.
I think the point is that its nothing to get so pissed off about.
Its an elimination game you will be eliminated early sometimes.
If you got found and hard tunnelled out for 4 games in a row I'd say practice not being found first, that's how I avoid being the player who's potentially eliminated.
Its just gameplay, expecting someone to play by an arbitrary set of rules purely for your enjoyment is ridiculous.
Yes its definitely not necessary to hard tunnel to win games, but it is allowed if you choose to do it.
What's BS to expecting other people to play how you want them to and getting upset when they don't. Children do that.
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@Nikatara69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3048833#Comment_3048833
Wait, so you trying to say that facecamping hooks, shaking head and EZ after game chat is not toxic?? Or I just missed something?
I never said taunting people in endgame chat wasn't toxic, you are adding in wosre behaviour to the list after the fact to justify your point.
re-read what I wrote you did miss something.