powerbats
powerbats
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@Outland said:
@powerbats said:
@Outland said:
The communication and wall hacks was an exact match. As in they both give their respective users the same advantage. You know where the Killer is and what he is doing , just like he knows where you are and what you are doing.
The comparison wasn't an example of cheating, it was just an example of the type of advantage that survivors are gaining while using communication.
One does not equal the other in any way shape or form and all you killers whining about it being cheating refuse to accept actual facts. The devs have already said it's not cheating so get over yourselves.
When they whitelist Discord, its not cheating, until then. Yep it is.
And comms gives the survivors the ability to relay the exact location and current activity of the Killer. And Wall Hacks gives the exact location and activity of the survivors. Seems pretty darn even to me, but you are looking to argue so yeah they are not anything alike.
Because communications also gives away totem placements, and trap locations, so yeah you are right communications is not like wall hacks, its worse.
But the devs have stated it's not cheating so your arguments are still invalid like all the others that claim using voice is cheating. One is modifying game files directly and or modifying the memory while the other does neither. When the devs say using voice is cheating you can call it cheating, but until then it's not.
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@Outland said:
The communication and wall hacks was an exact match. As in they both give their respective users the same advantage. You know where the Killer is and what he is doing , just like he knows where you are and what you are doing.
The comparison wasn't an example of cheating, it was just an example of the type of advantage that survivors are gaining while using communication.
One does not equal the other in any way shape or form and all you killers whining about it being cheating refuse to accept actual facts. The devs have already said it's not cheating so get over yourselves.
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Some of it's fps, some of it's latency and some of is just bad hit boxes for both sides. The devs are working on it especially the phantom Billy hit/miss issue.
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@thesuicidefox said:
I don't agree with preventing Huntress from stacking add-ons. Now that Tinkerer isn't a thing they aren't as strong of a combo. I think her base wind up/cooldown should be buffed and then the add-ons adjusted to match what it is currently so that those add-ons aren't as necessary. As for Nurse I say just bump up some of her best add-ons to pink rarity and it would solve that issue.I think they had talked about before changing base stats instead of using the tinkerer addons for it sicec then they could do buffs individually. instead of the issue with buffing tinkerer op's 1 versus the other. I agree with the Nurse going to pink rarity since that'd bring her power down to a more manageable level while also allowing others to be buffed up.
You could then adjust survivors accordingly since right now they've got to be buffed to her standards practically.
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Ok here's the dev response and it's quite long.
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqjo34
BHVR Dev Responds To Suggestions From A Long Time Player
(In response to this post from JenDenise http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqjl4n)Thanks for the feedback! We really appreciate getting perspective like this from our veteran players. Here are some thoughts on some of the issues you brought to our attention:
Map Balance
We hear you on this. We're working on lots of changes over on the level design side of things. I look forward to the day where seeing Fractured Cowshed elicits a better reaction than groans and eye rolls!Bloodlust
This mechanic has been pretty controversial since it was introduced. It addresses some real issues in the game, but it has its own problems as well. We discussed toning it down on a recent dev stream (no link, sorry). Right now, bloodlust tiers up at 15, 30, and 45 seconds of chase, for a bonus of +0.2, +0.6 and +1.2 m/s respectively. The proposed change would bring the tier times down to 12, 24, and 36 seconds, and bonuses down to +0.2, +0.4 and +0.6 m/s. This change didn't make it to the PTB, but we haven't ruled it out yet. Let us know what you think!Pallet Throw Delay
Overall, we're quite pleased with the pallet changes in patch 2.0.0. That being said, your post highlights two of the things that still need work: Responsiveness of the pallet drop and unfair-looking hits through pallets. They're both slated to be addressed in upcoming balance updates.Trapper Traps
Regardless of how many traps the Trapper can carry by default, I think adding a third bag add-on at common is an improvement. I like the idea of increasing his default carry capacity, and it was one of the options we discussed when designing his update. We didn't go for it this time, and we'll see how the changes we did make affect his play style and results before we make any more changes.Exhaustion
We have gotten a lot of feedback about the change to Exhaustion to stop it from recovering while running. We had originally talked about a change for Sprint Burst specifically, and came back with something that affects many perks instead, including the perks that usually compete with Sprint Burst for a slot in players' loadouts. It's not a change we take lightly.A lot of the debate I've read revolves around how this change affects Sprint Burst compared to the other exhaustion perks. Initial rumours of an "Activatable Sprint Burst" turned out to be pretty strongly exaggerated (some players may have assumed that just holding shift while standing still would satisfy the running condition. It does not) and personally I believe Sprint Burst is the perk most heavily affected by the change. Since it triggers so easily while playing the game normally, it's by far the most likely of the perks to have exhaustion up when a chase begins. To have it ready when a player needs it, it'll require more attention (and probably more walking!) than the others.
All that being said, we know this is a big change and we'll be looking for feedback about how these perks play once the change goes live. Also, as you pointed out, certain killer add-ons that inflict exhaustion may need to be adjusted in light of the change.
Freddy
We're all in agreement that Freddy needs some attention!
The upcoming mid-chapter patch includes updates for two killers, and we're planning to do more of these updates in future patches. I can't share the plan for Freddy yet, but he's definitely on the list.Rank / Devotion Rewards
We want this too!False Chainsaw
I imagine pretty much every Billy player has experienced that moment where a seemingly perfect chainsaw connection mysteriously does no damage to the survivor who may have just activated sprint burst or did a particularly sick spin right at the tip of the chainsaw detection zone. Stefan Horvath and I were actually looking into this recently to make sure we fully understood what the cause was. It involves some tricky bits of the attack and detection system, but once we can safely fix this issue, we will. The phantom chainsaws have gone on long enough!Report Feature
Agreed. Better reporting and moderation tools are being worked on right now.Add-on Stacking
Bonuses like Nurse's range or the Huntress' wind-up are stackable by design. The current paradigm for most bonus types is to identify the farthest a mechanic can be safely pushed, then split that bonus across the two top add-ons of that type. This increases the number of viable add-on combinations. As it turns out, Huntress wind-up time is not a safe variable to push very far.1-3 Survivor Games
I can't say it's as high a priority as some of the other items on this list, but I agree that it feels pretty bad to start a game and see that there are only 3 survivors in it. I don't have anything to announce about this yet.Thanks again for writing up your thoughts constructively. We appreciate it!
See you in the fog!
-McLean -
@OakLestat said:
At least Post the Dev responseI've got to find the darn thing 1st they posted a simple response and after I typed that in the decvs posted a longer one apparently. I'll edit it in shortly
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She definitely took steroids.
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@Dragonredking said:
Is there only ten or so killer in your region and rank range?
Seem odd to be so frequently matched against the same killer.No NA in my area has lots but apparently the MLGA hack allows you to sniff packets or something like that for certain players. Because we waited 10 minutes after the 2nd lobby dodge of him and still got him. We tried multiple wait times and always got him.
I've even had him in solo queue at various times as well and when he's Leatherface it's always Insidious and he always camps the basement. Whether he's got a victim or not that's what he does since before lat reset. I destroyed him at rank 3 last season by outsmarting him. Since then he's been on a revenge tour of sorts lol.
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I ended up having him as killer several more times and once I told him I recorded him using my name in lobby he stopped responding in lobby chat ever again even though it was him in multiple follow up matches since the name kept changing. Here's some screenies of all the shenanigans with names censored out.
I didn't post the 4th one where he used my main screen name with some ahem questionable language while I was using a different screen name.
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@Outland said:
It would be interesting to see just what side came out on top.I do not see the point of making people choose for life, or get another copy. Other then you believe your side would be the winner and the people who sided against you DESERVE to be punished for having the gall to have a different point of view.
I think when some new people try the game they aren't even sure what side they want to play. If you had your way they risk making the wrong choice at the start. Which would be a bad thing, because I doubt they would be willing to purchase a second copy at that point.
@Baphomett said:
I read the whole thing, but I then I got to the "solution" at the end and I feel like I got trolled.The last part wasn't meant as a troll try but as a hard core choice that the devs might actually implement as a deterrent and as a warning. That if you're going to make them put so much time and resources into something that's clearly detrimental to the larger player base it should have a high risk attached to it.
Since if it doesn't work out like the killers want they'll immediately flock back to the current system and all that time and money would be wasted. The other side of that coin is that the remaining killers would be fewer and the solo queue lobby times would skyrocket just as bad.
New idea instead of 9.
Now one possibility that might make this work however in a completely different setting is dedicated hosted servers. These would work similar to current dedicated servers like say Rust insofar as they could be set to either solo queue or all. There wouldn't be an opt out per se but you'd get your choice of what type you'd like to connect to.
So if the lobby times are bad for the solo queue only servers they could get taken down 1 by 1 until more people are on a few servers instead of many. If it doesn't work out they can be shutdown and swapped to an open group server and or a few could be kept for solo only.
This solution would be much less costly in terms of both time, money and dev resources than the opt out options. It also wouldn't nuke most of the playerbase just to benefit a small minority.
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@Tsulan said:
I don´t agree. Killers have been nerved harder than survivors in the past 2 years. Most killer meta perks have been nerfed so hard, that everyone stopped using them, because they would handicap themself more by using them. Survivor perks on the other hand have been nerfbuffed. For every minor nerf, they have been hugely buffed on the other side. SC doesn´t give as much of a heal bonus to medkits? Let´s give rank 1 and 2 the 50% base heal speed!
In order to balance this game, the devs need to nerf/buff one side. Then see how that works out, before they do it another time. If they change to many things on both sides at the same time, they risk that they get inconclusive data. Because the whole thing might cause a chain reaction.
That was the whole point of the PTB. To see if the planned changes are to much or not enough. But survivors felt to entitled to play on the PTB. Because they wouldn´t gain anything from it (perks not being nerfed so hard is obviously not worth fighting for). That was a missed chance, and everyone who complains about the changes after they go live, should just shut up. Because they had their chance and didn´t use it.
As a someone who plays both sides I don't have an issue with the survivor nerfs and advocated for quite a bit of them. The survivors whining the most are like some killers that refuse to adapt to the changing game. I just think that by continuing down the nerf one side buff the other side 1 after the other nothing will get better.
The biggest issue is probably that they're limited by the ahem spaghetti code and can't do what's really needed until they write the new code.
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@Envees said:
It is fact, stats released by devs themselves that state %70 of games start with 2 swf. This does mean that %70 of games start with 2 swf. This is 7 out of 10 games. So the vast majority of games start with 2 SWF.
Ok but you never stated that the devs had released that stat, if you had I wouldn't have questioned it. The information isn't laying around in plain site unfortunately.
What part of the stats released by devs do you not understand?
Its a stretch of logic for me to assume that %70 of games start with 2 swf? How so? Devs said so. The other %30 is 3 swf and 4 swf with this odd 2 and 2 and solo's thrown in.
Again refer to my above response.
If you want to argue about dev released stats argue with them and not me. I am quoting them. You are quoting bullshit.
No I wans't quoting bullshit at all and you know it, I was going off the info I had which was incorrect but was unknown to me. You're acting like a cop that pulls someone over and knows all the infractions. You should assume that most of the info isn't well known. I didn't know about camping and looping being ok until someone was kind enough to post the dev video about it. Which by the way was over a year old.
Hold a herring at the right angle and they are red. Fish much? Play DbD much? Dont think so otherwise you would have known that the %70 quoted is fact and not some number pulled out of thin air to suit my argument. Go back to school.
Perhaps it's you that needs to go back to school since if you did you'd know not to assume that everyone knows everything or did you not learn that in school? Also the Red Herring was about your imagination part and you know full full that fit the classic definition of a logical fallacy.
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@Envees said:
Simple statistic for you. %70 of games start with 2 SWF. This gives me the right to think that in the vast majority of games there will be 2 SWF.
No guessing needed. I just assume its at least 2 swf and go looking for the 3 or 4th.
Dont even go and pretend that swf are a rare occasion of that they are figments of killlers' imagination. SWF use is in nearly every single game.
That's still an assumption really if 70% of the player base is swf that doesn't mean that 70% of games actually start with 2 ppl. That's a stretch of logic right there since realistically you're making an assumption. While it's probably a valid one without actual data from BHVR which they need to provide so we know more. Also don't try and Red Herring garbage with me it doesn't work.
Also the claim that every sef group is toxic absolute crap and all those claiming it know it but like to make up facts as they go to make their argument look better. There was an MIT study done years ago that proved that online toxicity isn't as rampant in individual peoples games as they believe. In fact games they said were toxic when reviewed actually weren't but because they'd had a bad game the following ones felt the same.
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Oh just an update had him 2 more games and this time he used my powerbats screen name to insult me in survivor lobby. I even recorded it happening. he also totally tried to troll by refusing to hook me for over 20 mins.
So @not_Queen or any other mod want to help me clear this person out of the game please? i'm literally being stalked in game now.
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@EpicFailTryHard said:
i haven't seen much of killers working with survivors on consoles. seems almost odd given the propensity for plain ol' bs among the fanbase.Pc side and it's well known and just had the person again earlier and they even tried changing their region to china on their profile after making it private. It was kinda funny to be honest.
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@Jplanas98 said:
Not sure how ######### you have to be to assume I rely on crutch perks when I never said I did. At no point have I said I dodge SWF games, and its easy to tell if its SWF when all 4 join at the same time the instant you start the lobby. And there's so much irony in you bitching about people whining when that's the exact thing you're doing right now. "Why don't you stop running BBQ, ruin, Franklin's," all you're doing is whining about others whining. Oh and just in case you wanted to know, out of all those perks, the only one I run is BBQ.
Do you realize how stupid all of your arguments are. "Why don't you play with no perks" why would I? Killers are already at a severe disadvantage, why would I put myself at an even lower advantage in a 1 V 4 game (in case you forgot), just to end up playing against survivors with all crutch perks?
And maybe if you took your head out of your ass you would realize that people don't decide to complain about something else because the devs are working on fixing the current issue. These are all things that have been complained about for the longest time, and the devs haven't done anything to fix them. Fixing one issue doesn't fix the game, but instead draws attention to the other issues within the game. But of course, you don't care. You're just gonna continue whining about how everyone else is whining.
Wasn't it you in this very post that said crutch perks and yes you using bbq is a crutch perk. Also you totally missed the sarcasm and the usage of the sarcasm to show the hypocrisy of your crutch perks comment. Sp perhaps it's you that have the head up the rear
SWF isn't ever going anywhere and you need to take the advice killers give survivors when there's a nerf. ADAPT !!!! I could care less about the perks and the only one whining ehre is you. Your very own posts say it all let killers reject swf groups. If that's the very definition of whining.
As far as whining the only ones here doing it are the same few who whine about swf pretty much every day with new threads despite knowing the devs aren't going to nuke 70% of their player base just to appease a small vocal minority.
But keep proving my points with the insults it just makes you look that much more foolish and you keep proving the other killer mains correct when they say adapt or git gud.
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The killer because it wasn't a survivor typing and each time they kept using different names but remembered me from previous matches where the killer knew something. They changed names after match started and then during the match while someone was dead they still managed to change the name.
I'll post some edited stuff later. Oh and just got him again lol, he flamed me in lobby chat and then after only getting 1 person down with billy rage quit.
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@Runiver said:
The true explainationLol yeah i've seen that particular hack and it's even mentioned on the forums i was referring to and what version works against EAC.
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Ok I just had the funniest thing happen, the killer put their real name in on the latest match and it was someone i'd faced last season at rank 3. I'd schooled him a few times so he facecamped me revving his chainsaw the last math of season.
So if the mods ever contact me I can not only give them the killers name but also video and screenshot evidence as well as the link to the site.
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Yeah pc here and it's now been 7 lobbies where same killer has talked and hanged names. I also happen to know the site where the idiot got it from. I was a admin on CS as well as Rust servers so I searched around and found the hacker site.
The ahem salt on their forums over getting nailed on hacks because thy make money off them is funny. They've even called out certain devs over it and practically threatened them. Sadly i've got no way of giving BHVR the info since they never respond to anything I send their way, I could give them give them code if they wanted since i'e still got the fake membership I made years ago on the site.
I've not logged in quite some time but it should still be active.
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@Jack11803 @Tsulan @EpicFailTryHard @Orion I'd like some thoughts and opinions on this especially the console players for the side distribution. Also those that were here when lobbies were so bad and how long it took before they got better.
Any idea improvements etc appreciated but please no salt, I can get enough of that from other threads.
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@TheXenoborg said:
Where’s the part where I said all SWF are toxic? While you’re at it, highlight comments which you feel show I have a personal bias against the mode. Come on, Shelly!
To end this quickly since' Id rather concentrate on more positive discussion the bias is displayed where you say based upon your games and the stuff you've seen. You claim that proves you`right while dismissing what anyone else says.You probably don't even realize that's what you're doing but if you look at it objectively you'll see.
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@TheXenoborg said:
SWF must never be deleted. It was a great addition to the game, but it is true that it doesn't belong in the game. - Which is why it's important for the devs to tweak it and make it an organic part of the game.In the end, it's not about killers asking for "ez pz games", just a more balanced experience.
We can all agree a more balanced experience would be nice, it's the way to get there that's so hard to agree on since both sides will want something that favors them.My concerns with buffing killers versus swf is the solo queue players will get wrecked, especially at low ranks.
I'm not sure you could base it on rank ranges since then both sides would try and exploit it by ranking up/deranking. But having a separate queue for ranked and casual play would be nice.
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@Orion said:
Personally, when I say "Survivors are entitled", I mean "most vocal Survivors", or "most Survivors I've seen". It's just easier to say "Survivors" than to type out either of the (admittedly more correct) alternatives. I appreciate what you're trying to say, though.This is true for both sides yet I found an easy solution was to have it on a text document when I needed to call out someone entitled rather than tarring and feathering an entire group.It kept the discussions more respectful generally except for the most extreme ends which are in every group.
Most killers are great just as most survivors are but like in politics it's those that scream the loudest that get the most attention. Well that and have to the most money to throw around while screaming the loudest.
Why not make a text document with that entitled bit in it directed specifically for that vocal minority?
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@Dragonredking said:
@powerbats
A yes, the basement chest garding insidious leatherface, haven't seen one in a while.It funny to have one once in a while, the worst is that sometime it's really effective, I've saw survivor team trying their darndest to save who ever was first caught giving the basement leatherface 2+ kill in the process.
Yeah I've seen it actually a few times and I know once they get downed in there it's a trap and people still go for it knowing the damn killer is there.
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@Orion said:
@powerbats said:
@Orion said:
Answer the question. Do you think it's unreasonable to focus on the big problem instead of solving small issues that would further tilt the game in the Survivors' favor?
This is a "yes/no" question. I failed to see either of those words in your answer. Once you answer it, you can then explain your reasoning. Here, I'll go first.
It's not unreasonable to fix the bigger problem first. Fixing Survivor problems might help Survivors in the short term, but in the long term, it's better if you start by putting Killers where they should be, so that the Survivor fixes don't make the game unbalanced to the point Killers put together another strike.Yet what's the actual big problem here, buffing killers or fixing the underlying issues that cause that? So you buff killers 1st well then now the shoes on other foot so they either nerf killers again or buff survivors and then were back to square 1 again.
This is why they need to address it all at the same time instead of piecemeal attempts which just end up making them redo stuff later. If they make changes to say aura reading abilities at the same time they know the balance is there when they go to release it. But if they do only killers then they have to either nerf it back again or buff survivors.
This is why they decided to change tinkerer completely because trying to adjust things for one group meant they couldn't get it right for the others. By doing the change all at once they cna now buff all the killers individually for how cdr stuff works.
The same is true for fixing killers, if you don't fix the underlying issues and instead only buff them it fixes nothing.
Why are you trying so hard to avoid answering the question?
I'm not trying hard to avoid the question and in fact answered it, you just don't like my reasoning in my response. You claim the big problem is on your side but that doesn't make it so. I'm saying the big problem is the overall underlying issues that have put killer in such a bad place.
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@TheXenoborg said:
@powerbats said:
@TheXenoborg said:
@powerbats said:
@TheXenoborg said:
What nonsense. This isn't some UN debate, get off your high horse, please. And you call me a troll? Lol
Still trying the Straw Man and Red Herrings and still failing and yes you proved my point about being a troll.
I'm not a troll. You're asking for unreasonable "evidence" and you know it. I don't know if you aspire to be a lawyer or something but you are definitely annoying with your baseless arguments. As I said, there are countless accounts of actual players, all different from each other in many ways, saying the exact same thing about SWF. The devs also feared the same regarding this mode before caving to our demands. It's 2018, get searchin'. If you choose to ignore all of that, then that's not really my problem. You really lack logic for someone who says "logical fallacies" every 5 seconds. lol I also do not need to prove you anything since it's already been proven by many others. All you have to do is look around you.
No I'm asking you to back up your claims using the same logic you use to deny me my`claims. if you can't provide evidence to back up your claims other than your own personal bias you can't be believed anymore than you refuse to believe me.
As far as get searching use your own advice and you'll see there's just as many videos not showing toxicity. But you refuse to do that because it'd refute your claims. It's a absolute impossibility that all swf groups are toxic yet you still try and claim that.
Okay, bootleg Sheldon, quote me where I said all SWF are toxic. Your arguments are baseless. I play SWF regularly, so that means I'm calling myself toxic. What nonsense. In the end, you are not an authority figure to me to demand evidence from me in such a manner. Your education is not my responsibility. I have expressed no personal bias in my comments. That's what you've projected about me throughout the comments.
Wait what, you've expressed no personal bias? Are you really claiming that after all that you've posted. This discussion has obviously reached it's end point if that's how you'll continue to respond. Make claims eyt refuse to back them up with actual empirical evidence and then turn around and misrepresent what someone that didn't agree with you stated.
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@Orion said:
Answer the question. Do you think it's unreasonable to focus on the big problem instead of solving small issues that would further tilt the game in the Survivors' favor?
This is a "yes/no" question. I failed to see either of those words in your answer. Once you answer it, you can then explain your reasoning. Here, I'll go first.
It's not unreasonable to fix the bigger problem first. Fixing Survivor problems might help Survivors in the short term, but in the long term, it's better if you start by putting Killers where they should be, so that the Survivor fixes don't make the game unbalanced to the point Killers put together another strike.Yet what's the actual big problem here, buffing killers or fixing the underlying issues that cause that? So you buff killers 1st well then now the shoes on other foot so they either nerf killers again or buff survivors and then were back to square 1 again.
This is why they need to address it all at the same time instead of piecemeal attempts which just end up making them redo stuff later. If they make changes to say aura reading abilities at the same time they know the balance is there when they go to release it. But if they do only killers then they have to either nerf it back again or buff survivors.
This is why they decided to change tinkerer completely because trying to adjust things for one group meant they couldn't get it right for the others. By doing the change all at once they cna now buff all the killers individually for how cdr stuff works.
The same is true for fixing killers, if you don't fix the underlying issues and instead only buff them it fixes nothing.
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@TheXenoborg said:
@powerbats said:
@TheXenoborg said:
What nonsense. This isn't some UN debate, get off your high horse, please. And you call me a troll? Lol
Still trying the Straw Man and Red Herrings and still failing and yes you proved my point about being a troll.
I'm not a troll. You're asking for unreasonable "evidence" and you know it. I don't know if you aspire to be a lawyer or something but you are definitely annoying with your baseless arguments. As I said, there are countless accounts of actual players, all different from each other in many ways, saying the exact same thing about SWF. The devs also feared the same regarding this mode before caving to our demands. It's 2018, get searchin'. If you choose to ignore all of that, then that's not really my problem. You really lack logic for someone who says "logical fallacies" every 5 seconds. lol I also do not need to prove you anything since it's already been proven by many others. All you have to do is look around you.
No I'm asking you to back up your claims using the same logic you use to deny me my`claims. if you can't provide evidence to back up your claims other than your own personal bias you can't be believed anymore than you refuse to believe me.
As far as get searching use your own advice and you'll see there's just as many videos not showing toxicity. But you refuse to do that because it'd refute your claims. It's a absolute impossibility that all swf groups are toxic yet you still try and claim that.
Also proven by many others is still making up facts without the evidence to back it up, you can post 100 things I could do same, IT PROVES NOTHING. You're making up facts as you go then claiming them to be backed up without backing it up with actual proof.
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@TheXenoborg said:
What nonsense. This isn't some UN debate, get off your high horse, please. And you call me a troll? Lol
Still trying the Straw Man and Red Herrings and still failing and yes you proved my point about being a troll.
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@TheXenoborg said:
@powerbats said:
@TheXenoborg said:
Cool, that just proves survivor games are risk-free which encourages trolling, SWF just makes it a lot efficient for them.
You just proved my point about using Logical Fallacies when you can't argue a point.
You made no point. Just because you experienced some toxic solo survivors ONCE doesn't mean things are perfect and it certainly doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. One instance vs several anecdotes online + my own personal experience (as an active SWF player and a killer faceing SWF survivors), I know who to believe. yawn.
You again proved my point, I've stated on many occasions I'eve experienced toxicity in solo queue. I didn't say only once that was you using a Straw Man fallacy. You then turn to using a Red Herring thereby proving my point yet again.
Your several anecdotes means nothing and you know it. Since unless you can show evidence from every single players games your argument means nothing. You're claiming all swf groups are toxic yet provide no factual evidence.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens.
So just like your logical fallacies we can dismiss your made up facts on the spot. We can now safely dismiss you as yet another forum troll who doesn't actually care about facts only their own personal opinions.
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@TheXenoborg said:
Cool, that just proves survivor games are risk-free which encourages trolling, SWF just makes it a lot efficient for them.
You just proved my point about using Logical Fallacies when you can't argue a point.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
PS4 Nurse? Damn, that's rough.It could be worse you could be trying to play Nurse on a Mac.
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@TheXenoborg said:
Cool. Except there's abundant anecdotes in forms of posts, streams and videos of SWF mostly being an instrument for trolls.
That's not evidence though, that's simply a collection of people whining about it. How many videos and posts are out there that say the exact opposite? We could each post the exact same number of things yet you and the others would still say your facts are right etc.
Most of any given community never goes to a forum yet alone posts threads, comments or videos of any kind for the game they play. I've just as many post, threads, streams and videos of killers being toxic and or hacking. But that doesn't mean all killers are like that not by any means it's just a small % that does it and the same for survivor side doing toxic things.
I've seen solo queue survivors be super toxic before and in fact had a game this am where 1 survivor griefed another by tea bagging them in front of where they were hooked. The killer came and chased them around and when they tea bagged and tried to sandbag the unhooked victim the killer wouldn't take the bait. In fact the killer went after the toxic survivor and downed them and went after everyone else regularly but kept going after the toxic player 1st.
When I'm killer if I see someone being toxic on survivor side i hardcore go after them, i don't camp but they get my special attention. If I'ma survivor and someone is toxic I'll still try and help some but I'm not going out of my way for them.
Most people on both sides are decent and to claim otherwise is to do the temper tantrum 2 year old stomping in the corner with your hands over your ears.
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@TheXenoborg said:
@fcc2014 said:
@TheXenoborg said:
Technically a survivor main since 99% of my games are survivor. I rarely play killer. I also don't want SWF to be removed since I'm one of the people who actually wanted a mode like this back in 2016.
So why remove them from the lobby pool to play against AI. I think the trolls might like that but it would hurt the game long term.
I was being sarcastic. Seeing how most SWF players are trolls, maybe it's not such a bad idea?
This right here is why the people using swf as an excuse can't be believed. They use made up claims and then expect everyone to believe them. I play solo and swf as well as killer and my discord is always hilarious when playing.
We joke about the killer making bad plays as well as when we do like turning into a dead end. We'll joke about begging the killer to spare us and if we get dropped we think yay. Then they go ahead and hook us and we joke about how rude they were.
If the killer outplayed us we say good game, if we outplayed them it's the same thing. If the killer is camping us and just nodding at us non stop and smacking us hoping we give up we laugh. We then get serious and do gens more quickly and when they say ez I'l say.
Did you forget to bring the tent and campfire to go with your camp. IF they weren't too much of a jerk about it as in they only did it when gates were powered I'll say how rude it was not to have made a campfire so I could roast marshmallows while there.
Most of the killers get a laugh out of the good banter and some even apologize for the camp to which I respond it was all good and legitimate ocne the gates were powered. There's been time I'll let myself be caught if the killers played a good match and hasn't gotten anyone down. Because I want them to get some bonus points out of the match.
Lastly the made up bs about most swf are trolls is about as true as there's oxygen on Mars. There's probably some but not a lot and it's probably really hard to find. Just as in most games there's always going to be a toxic minority. This game is no different and that extend to the killer side as well.
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To add to this something funny last night from solo queue rank 9-10. It's Coldwind all cornfield map don't remember which 1. I've been running into non stop Billy's and Leather faces on that map lately with a few Pigs and Wraiths thrown in. So I'm my usual cautious self constantly checking for the killer as 3 of us start working on a gen.
The anxiety as i wait for the killers heartbeat to approach is palatable and then the dreaded skillcheck fail happens as 1 person screws up so i scamper away waiting for the incoming massacre. I skulk off and nothing so I figure the killer is a Wraith sneaking around and then go work on another gen and finish it after 1 st one pops.
Still nothing so damn that killer must have Noed and is being a sneaky motha probably with insidious so I sneak around and cleanse 2 non hex totems i find and then sabo 2 hooks just in case I get found. I do another gen and voila gates are powered and I'm thinking we're ######### yet no Noed..
So I wonder is killer afk or did their game freeze like has happened to me or are they just be sneaky and insidious by an exit gate. I skulk off to an exit gate with nary a whisper on the cold night and get it opened and still nothing.
So I figure if the killer got frozen I can at least get close and give them some points for finding me and go around them and since I've got SB I can run off if need be. I start sneaking around the map and premonition finally goes off and that tingle at the back of the neck starts.
I crouch and get closer to the killer shack figuring they must be there someplace and sure enough I get a terror heartbeat and 1 second later someone instantly disconnects. I sprint towards my opened exit gate in sheer terror.
To my non surprise it was indeed a Cannibal with Insidious but he was camping the basement the whole time. The person who quit lost out on all those points because they went into the basement and he decloaked and scared this whitless. In the post game chat he said the "basement cleanse is complete." "The Leatherface basement patrol has done it's job."
That has got to be the funniest but also scariest match I've had in quite some time and I've had some Leather faces on that map that 4 sac everytime and never camp. That was the 1st insidious one that actually hid in the basement the whole time.
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@Orion said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Orion said:
"Killer are in need of buffs for balance purposes more than Survivors are in need of solutions to their problems, therefore balance should take priority over Survivor issues".This is like the DEFINITION of entitlement dude. "Because our side has more problems we need all the attention". Again, just completely dismissive of survivor issues to favor one side.
Answer the question. Do you think it's unreasonable to focus on the big problem instead of solving small issues that would further tilt the game in the Survivors' favor?
This just points out the entitlement hypocrisy again of one side over the other. You can't fix one sides issues without also fixing the other sides issues. You have to address both issues at the same time so that as you make changes you know that it won't unbalance other changes.
Since otherwise it's just a big circle jerk of endless buffs then nerfs around and around for each side which is where we're at now. If they make changes to the killers at the same time as survivors they can make sure that one doesn't out balance the other and require more work down the line.
That last part is what the extremists on both sides don't seem to understand or care about and it just causes more problems in the end.
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@Orion said:
The fact that you believe camping and "tunneling" are balance issues says all I need to know about your understanding of the game.The fact that you use that lame ass excuse proves his point that anytime a survivor or anyone posts something that some killer mains disagree with they resort to insults. Both camping and tunneling are gameplay issues resulting from how the game is designed.
The killer has to tunnel and or camp because of lopping etc. The survivor has to do those things because they can''t really lose the killer and od an evade style of hide and seek because of map design etc. No one is going to take you seriously unless and until you and the other stop resorting to insults because you can't debate.
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@Master said:
Cheaters use 3rd party tools to gain an unfair ingame advantage, tell me how is that different from discord etc?
You just keep proving the futility of trying to discuss this with you by using such a childish and immature argument that has no actual factual basis at all.One modifies the game files or the game memory to give a advantage. The other doesn't and the fact you keep trying to be childish and use that as an argument shows it's not the swf that's the issue it's you.
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@PureHostility said:
@powerbats said:
@PureHostility said:
All they need to do is add a new icon indicating said person is queued in SWF with those people, hell, if you don't want to show who is with whom, just add an icon that THIS person joined this lobby by using "Survive With Friends" option in them main menu.
This gives the killer needed information to adjust their playstyle accordingly and on top of that, informs other survivors in the lobby about existing SWF members that may ditch them and use them for their own gain.
The problem here is if it's 1 solo and 3 swf the killer knows instantly that that 1 person is alone and can focus them down and know the swf is probably going to let them rot. The killer can then focus on the 3 swf people. It'd be better to say that you have some swf people in your lobby but not tell who or how many unless it's a full 4 person premade.
As I said, that solo survivor also gets information about SWF being present in his/her lobby, thus they can act accordingly, either prepare to play a game where they are the only solo one or dodge the lobby and find a proper game instead.
It doesn't matter if they know or not it still doesn't change the fact they're at a disadvantage and if they dodge it's just putting it on the next person. All that does is keep passing the buck to another random because some killers don't want to play against swf. If you're going to give a notification to the killer it needs to be a blind type like I said that the lobby may contain some kind of swf group unless its a full group.
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@Envees said:
Get them out of ranked since they cheat and use tools not inside the game. However, %70 of games start with at least 2 swf. The other %30 are 3 or 4 swf and the odd random solo thrown in like me. I solo.
Are you going to dodge 7 out of 10 games? You will never play. What we need are the tools to be able to deal with people who use VOIP to communicate our whereabouts, perks and location. How do devs do this? No idea but then again i am not stupid enough to make a game and assume that nobody will group up and nobody will use coms. In this day and age to assume the above is just plain stupidity and shortsightedness.
Good grief grow up all you entitled whiners IT'S NOT CHEATING so stop using that lame ass argument to try and support your arguments. It's make you look childish and foolish that you have to resort to such a lame ass argument. They could remove swf or elt you opt out of it and then you'd simply find something else to complain about.
The nerfs to survivor perks are a great example of that, you whined about the perks, they got nerfed, now that you can't whine about those perks it's onto the next thing on the list.
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@Master said:
Cheaters use aim hacks and teleport/invulnerability stuff to have fun to.
Saying that SWF is fine because it's fun for the survivors would by the aame argumentation say that cheating is fineThat's worst logical fallacy argument I've seen in quite some time and 1 doesn't even come close to equating to the other. It's not cheating to use Discord or Ventilo or Skype etc no matter how you or anyone else whining about it tries to word it.
Now as for 3rd party programs they're talking about those that are aimbots, wallhacks, aura hacks, speed hacks etc. You know full well that voice wasn't intended nor is covered by that.
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@PureHostility said:
All they need to do is add a new icon indicating said person is queued in SWF with those people, hell, if you don't want to show who is with whom, just add an icon that THIS person joined this lobby by using "Survive With Friends" option in them main menu.
This gives the killer needed information to adjust their playstyle accordingly and on top of that, informs other survivors in the lobby about existing SWF members that may ditch them and use them for their own gain.
The problem here is if it's 1 solo and 3 swf the killer knows instantly that that 1 person is alone and can focus them down and know the swf is probably going to let them rot. The killer can then focus on the 3 swf people. It'd be better to say that you have some swf people in your lobby but not tell who or how many unless it's a full 4 person premade.
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@Xsous said:
I'm sorry, I have to login in to point out the stupidity of this post.
Guy tells you to play without 3 others and Voice chat, and your suggestion to him is don't play with Perks/items or Addons..All things in the game where Voice Chat is not..
See this is why we can't have nice things...Derplords like this mucking up the Internet.
Did you even bother reading what I said and fully comprehending it or did your derplord self just totally freak out like is totally apparent.
I said that because I was pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about the survivors having 15 crutch perks and the killers only having 5 crutch perks. This after whining about the survivors using crutch perks in an earlier post. If the survivors didn't get to sue any perks then neither should he as a killer.
But gasp the logic flew right over your head there and talk about the stupidity of a post yours was a prime example.
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@Outland said:
Ok, lets take your points one at a time.
BHVR can not detect Discord, and even if they did could, they do not have the right to check that information.
Good point and wasn't sure since some have sneaky TOS/EULAS
So no BHVR can do nothing about Discord. Lets limit our discussions about the use of Discord to only that of SWF groups. Every other discord communication outside of SWF games, doesn't supply an advantage to the player, and is therefore a non-issue.
Ok but then how do you know it's a swf group, which as you admit you don't know later on. My point is that in quite a few of these threads the complaint is it's always swf groups when no one really knows.
Now on to your claiming that if they would talk around the fire IRL. Whelp from the lore, In trial after trial, the survivors retain nothing of their previous ordeals. Actually they sit around that fire until they actually for some unknown reason decide to wander away from it. Upon which they find themselves in another ordeal where they do not know anything or anyone. If they escape they find themselves back at the safety of the fire, until they wander off again. So no they wouldn't be talking because the game was designed as four strangers placed in a match who can either work together or not. Its up to the playstyle of each player.
**Ok that's something I didn't know since lore is sometimes spotty and it'd be nice if they had a section in game for that similar to where shop/daily/etc are at bottom of screen.
**And as a player of this game since day one, before SWF was even a thing, I reserve the right to keep the game installed and ######### all I want, because that is my right. And yes I'll dodge any SWF I suspect, and if they do finally decide that punishing Killers for lobby dodging deserves timeouts. I'll probably not wait around until the timeout is over, I'll just stop playing and play another game, because being forced into matches where I'm just a joke for a SWF groups to troll is no option. I'm sure a lot of Killers will do the same.
I don't think they'll do a hard timer but I see killers constantly dodging just because they don't like the items/group comp in solo queue. As I said before they then use the excuse that you beat them because you had to rely on your swf scrub friends. This when it was all solo queue and or 1 duo.
The hardcore Killers will stay, but the que times should be pretty brutal. Because survivor mains do not have the stuff to be a Killer main. They may try it and after getting roflstomped by SWF groups, they will not bother either. So the end result will just be a lot less Killers to provide lobbies.
I play Trapper and I get stomped on my killers at time regardless of the group solo or swf. I could care less what the comp is I'm going to try and kill them or at least scare the crap out of them. I've been congratulated for how well I did by swf groups when they've had me outclassed and out item'd before.
As far as queue times go the opt outs are going to have it a lot worse since with only 30% or so of the playebase you'll be lucky to get a match in 30 mins. That's a wild ass guess but you get the idea and what'll probably happen is that the solo queue survivors will get tired of being rofl stomped and either quit or group up into swf groups. Then you'll never get lobbies hardly at all and you'll be forced to either stop playing, wait forever or opt back in.
"All I see are excuses when you don't actually know if it's a swf group at all"
Thanks for making our point here, we DON"T know what is SWF and what isn't. That's why we are asking for the indicator. That way when we get rolled in a match we know it was because we plain old got out played. Not cheated by superior communication and seal team tactics.
I don't have a problem with knowing and have stated you either get told beforehand but if you still quit you should get penalized for dodging. But if you stay then depending on the size of the group you'd get a bonus. You wouldn't know how big the group is nor who was who in said group. But better bp and iridescents would be the reward.
But nothing you said at all, makes it ok for SWF groups gain such an advantage over the other players. Other then you feel you are entitled to.
I don't feel entitled to anything, but to play how I want once in game and not have someone say well survivors shouldn't have this perk or rage quit once they player sees map, champion, items. The ones displaying the entitled sense here not you per se but some of the others that want to know what perks everyone has etc.
In reality, I KNOW SWF is not going anywhere, but nothing you can say will convince me that advantage that SWF get by using Discord, is cool and above board. IF IT WAS THEN DISCORD WOULD BE WHITE LISTED.
Yet how many swf's are actually using discord and how many of those have mics that are actually working. I've played this and many other games where 1 or more people in a group either don't have mic or can't use it due to someone sleeping etc.While they can hear they can't speak and at other times people get phone calls and both mute and deafen the game.
I'd like to see killers get some rewards for staying but the whiny ones that rant and rave and act entitled get no sympathy from me. In fact they'd be better off uninstalling the game because in reality even if they get opt out they'll just blame something else for their bad games.
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@SovererignKing said:
Visionmaker said:
powerbats said:Now if only they'd add swivel to cleansing totems so my big survivor ass animation doesn't stand out like a Sir Mix A Lot video.
To be fair, they took away pallet vacuums but didn't take away hook vacuums.
It's a teeny little bit bullshit to see the killers do the electric slide and whisk you onto the hook while you sit at 100% wiggle meter.
They took away pick up vacuum. Survivors lost Pallet Vacuum, Killers lost pick up Vacuum. 1:1, Survivors lost something, so did Killers.
Though as per usual, Survivors want it to be double. Killers should always be nerfed double the amount as Survivors. You know, because reasons.
Besides Wiggling wasn’t intended for you to escape the Killers grasp as often as you seem to think. All wiggling was introduced for was to prevent a Killer from basically carrying someone around all match. More or less “taking them out of the game”. That or carrying them around with Agitation.
I find struggling has gotten worse since 2.0 hit not sure why and I do know more killers re running iron grasp and enduring since 2.0 as well. The dribbling when you're not using ds is kinda annoying and how you can be at 100% but not wiggle free since hooks have an aoe radius so to speak now. With the non hook swivel the killer had to be in front but now if they're within x distance of the hook you're wiggle meter is cancelled.
It's working similar to how basement hooks work, you can be near the front hook but go for the back hook and never lose the survivor.
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@Jplanas98 said:
Gameplay does play a big part in it, there's no denying that. That's why there are changes being made. And when it comes to the perks, killer doesn't compare to survivor. Killer has like 6 crutch perks, survivors have like 15.
Playing SWF isn't the ultimate evil, but it sucks that it's a 1 v 4, and the 4 survivors already have a huge advantage. And the fact that the survivors are able to communicate with each other just boosts the advantage even further, making the game even less fun. And pretty much 1 in every 4 SWF groups end up being toxic.
Wait the survivors have 15 crutch perks that they can sue at once, shocking that those who play that side never knew that. It's also funny you admit killers have crutch perks also because they can't use them all at once either.
Again you think that the survivors camping by that fire don't communicate, nor do so in game? So what if people communicate, the smart killers know this and use it against them. Also where did you get that statistic from since 1 in 4 is a made up number obviously.
There was a study done on toxicity a few years back in online gaming and the results were quite surprising. The majority of people who said their game swere toxic actually weren't. In fact their games were mostly on the positive side but because they might've had a bad experience and queued up right away that carried over to the next game and so on.
This is based upon chat logs where they felt the chat was toxic and or gameplay and when asked to point out specific games there was really very little toxicity. The same is true for this game since you feel swf is toxic so every game is toxic whether it was or not. You feel most every game is swf yet it probably isn't or only part of the group is swf.
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@Jplanas98 said:
@Jplanas98 said:
@ChraizE said:
@Jplanas98 said:
They need to give killers the option to reject SWF players. Let's be honest, a lot of these high rank survivors are trash without their crutch perks and friends to body block. It's not fair that if you play killer, you have to deal with so much toxicity. Swf ruins the fun of the game.That's actually what pisses me off the most when I am high ranked killer literally the ONLY time I get a match is against a flipping 3-4 man swf EVERY time it's a freaking joke!! It's like they HAVE to swf or they'd be pure garbage as a solo player imo.
They'd definitely be garbage. Without the crutch perks, and their toxic friends, they wouldn't make it past rank 16. Not to mention SWF ruins lobbies. I've literally had to wait in a lobby for nearly 10 minutes as a rank 10 killer because I couldn't get 1 solo survivor to queue in. And the other 3 were swf.
Rofl so if you didn't have your crutch perks you'd be garbage to is what you're saying then right? I don't run ds, I tried it when I finally solo'd my way to rank 12 and didn't like it at all. Why don't you stop running bbq, ruin, franklins and any other perk you refuse to run without and then see how you do. In fact play the game without perks at all and when you do good you can brag how yo did it the pure way.
The crybaby attitude displayed is hilarious, if it isn't cheating it's a crutch perk, if it isn't pallets it,s windows, if it isn't that you find something else to whine about. They removed a lot of pallets you complained about something else, ds getting nerf well gotta complain about something else now.
SB and other sprint perks getting a exhaustion nerf, well now gotta cray about something else, sc getting enrf, gotta cry about something else. If they ever removed all survivor perks and every pallet and window and swf you lot would still whine about how unfair it is.
There's a common denominator in all this, its the same people whining non stop over and over again and each time the devs make a change to nerf survivors you all complain about something new after getting what yo wanted.
Is SWf more difficult yes, but is it impossible no and the really good killers manage to adapt or take the bad matches with the good. They're not going to remove swf or let you opt out plain and simple. What you people complaining about don't realize is you've wasted for more time dodging lobbies because of swf or because you think it's swf.
You could've played a ton more games and gotten them out of the way and yet you blame the problem someplace it doesn't belong, you choose to dodge. You're blaming a lobby for a problem that may not even exist yet automatically assume it's so because it might be swf lobby.
The complaint you won't have fun because you might have a swf lobby or you might have a bunch of randoms with fl in group. Then you dodge said lobby and whine about not having fun when it was your own decision not to play. IF you go into the game and then run into the worst then yes you won't have fun.
But what's really happening is you're just dodging because you're scared of the fact you might not have fun because you don't like the group. That's on you, not the lobby.
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@Vortexas said:
I dunno about dodging due to items, that is what Franklins is for.
I do dodge SWF because it gives then a HUGE unfair advantage vs Killer.
If you do not think so, well I dunno what to tell you..play killer and play against ever SWF group you come against and tell me how fun it is..for 2-3 other people to constantly know EXACTLY where you are at while you are chasing that Dwight you found.
Franklins is perfect and more killers are running it which is a scary thing to face but also makes it that much more interesting. I recognize the problems swf groups create and I've been wrecked by some at low ranks as well. I think in all my time playing killer I've had perhaps 10 toxic swf groups and the rest have been really cool.
I totally understand if you see 4 flashlights and 4 clan tags for the same group that's one thing but how many are full groups? It'd be interesting to actually get a breakdown by rnake 1-5 6-10 etc of what the comp is group wise. Most of the swf is probably low ranks but what % is the $64,000 question.
One thing I'd like to see is perhaps a bp bonus awarded post game but the killer won't know they're getting it as a reward for facing swf.So if it's a duo they get a 1x bonus or something and so on.
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Leatherface Tinkerer is pure evil and hopefully they buff him properly to make him still viable but not op Nurse like.